/ is half-crimp usually the weakest grip-type?

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Siderunner - on 13 Jan 2013
I'm beginning to suspect my half-crimp is really weak, relative to open-handed.
Or does everyone find it much weaker than the full crimp and open handed position?

On the fingerboard (all 2 handed, no extra weight), I can do:
* Open-handed - front 3 on the smallest 3 finger pockets on the BM1000 10+ secs; middle two 10secs and front two 7secs in the deep 2 finger pockets
* Full-crimp - 5 seconds on a 1cm edge
* Half-crimp - can't hold bodyweight on a 2 inch flat edge

I don't normally train the half-crimp on the fingerboard because of this. But perhaps I should start training the half-crimp using a pulley or chair to take weight off?

[some background stats:
38 y.o., 66kg, 5'7, 10 yrs climbing,
V3-4, 6b+/6c o.s., 7a r.p.
target V5 and 7b r.p. this year ]
shark - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to Siderunner:

The half-crimp is the default grip to train - more so for lime redpointing

Drag strength is a funny one as it can be specific to type of hold, proportional finger length, pulp on your tips and heat/humidity. Typically drags can be good for holding holds but a crimp or half crimp gives more stability for pulling on them.

Its good that you have recognised this disproportional weakness and you should focus on it. After warming up make half crimps your first set of deadhangs. I doubt it will be long before you can do do decent hangs with bodyweight only
Siderunner - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to shark:
Thanks man, that's encouraging. My half-crimp feels so weak it's hard to imagine it being useful in hard climbing. I obviously must fix this given your comments.

> Typically drags can be good for holding holds but a crimp or half crimp gives more stability for pulling on them.

Interesting observation. Perhaps this comment explains why I am really bad at long moves, but much better at more static and core-based problems, compared to mates who climb at the same grade. I'd assumed it was a lack of big muscles and am currently weight-training accordingly!
kingholmesy - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to Siderunner:
> I'm beginning to suspect my half-crimp is really weak
>
> I don't normally train the half-crimp on the fingerboard because of this

There's your problem. You should train your weaknesses. This is easier said than done, but recognising them is half the battle.

If you can't deadhang body weight, using a pulley is best as you can measure precisely how much assistance you need to add, which makes tracking progress easier. It is however a lot more of a faff than just putting one foot on a chair.

kingholmesy - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to Siderunner:

... and in answer to your opening question, personally half crimp is my strongest grip on the fingerboard.
shark - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to Siderunner:

No problem. If you really want to aggressively attack this weakness and make potentially awesome gains try the protocol outlined in my latest blog post (link below). The grip I'm using is strict half-crimp. With max strength training more is less and may require sacrifices in other training areas to achieve optimal rest/recovery.

http://27crags.com/climbers/shark/blog/for-doylo-x

Simon
Bulls Crack - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to Siderunner:
> I'm beginning to suspect my half-crimp is really weak, relative to open-handed.

It's a b*gger isn't it?

I suggest you buy some new tongs.
JimmyKay - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to shark:

I did exactly that. Full crimp was all I used to do. Then when I tried to use the campus board in drag (pun intended) I could barely pull past the fifth rung. A year or two later, I only ever drag my way up the board. Helped no end!
shark - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to JimmyKay:
> (In reply to shark)
>
> I did exactly that. Full crimp was all I used to do. Then when I tried to use the campus board in drag (pun intended) I could barely pull past the fifth rung. A year or two later, I only ever drag my way up the board. Helped no end!



Can you clarify. Are you agreeing that training a weak grip is the way to go or making a point that dragging is a better grip ?
JimmyKay - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to shark:

Good question. Bit of both in my opinion. I wanted to train the weaker grip, because I thought it would strengthen my fingers in general - I do love a bit of Kudos Wall. And secondly I think that dragging adds 2inches onto your reach. The difference between extended fingers and closed crimp can make a big difference on a static lock.

So to clarify, being able to close crimp allows a deeper lock and being good at dragging maximises reach.

Does that make any sense?
shark - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to JimmyKay:
> (In reply to shark)
>
> Good question. Bit of both in my opinion. I wanted to train the weaker grip, because I thought it would strengthen my fingers in general - I do love a bit of Kudos Wall. And secondly I think that dragging adds 2inches onto your reach. The difference between extended fingers and closed crimp can make a big difference on a static lock.
>
> So to clarify, being able to close crimp allows a deeper lock and being good at dragging maximises reach.
>
> Does that make any sense?


Yes - sometimes on campus type moves it works well to crimp a hold with one hand and get the next at max reach as a drag then turn it into a crimp to make the next move. You may have seen the video of Robinson or Woods where they train this action on a campus rung (looks horrific).
Siderunner - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to shark:
I'm convinced, half-crimp is holding me back. I really enjoyed your blog. It tackles an issue I have wondered about with my open-handed finger boarding, which is whether to put more work into the 2s, or simply up the weight on the front and back 3 - I think I'll do the latter, but still the half crimp comes first!
Siderunner - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to kingholmesy:
really good to know that half crimp CAN be strong, it's hard to believe at the moment for me
Siderunner - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to JimmyKay:
good to hear the benefits of tackling a weakness like this head on. Your description makes it clear that the ideal is to have both.

On reflection I often use my dragging to stay on a hold I only just reach (esp as I'm only 5'7). But sometimes I find those who're crimping can get to it more easily in the first place ;-)

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