/ Peak Winter

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Sam Bennett - on 14 Jan 2013
As its snowed for nearly 3 hours now I'm wondering if owt is in?
Theres an inch of snow outside my house in Sheffield, anyone nearer Mam Tor, Back Tor etc know what it looks like?

Cheers
Sam
xplorer on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to Sam Bennett:

It's going to have to freeze first. Maybe Wednesday
Offwidth - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to Sam Bennett:

Some stuff is sure to be in. I'm not saying about where here anymore as when I advertised Crowden Clough last year is was hacked to death in days. Great fun for a possible many ruined by a selfish few (as is also often the case around the downfall). Folk need to learn to climb more carefully as something we climbed in walking axes with small chipped steps clearly doesn't need bashing repeatedly before every move with technical axes and crampons.
smithaldo - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to Offwidth: Twas ever thus.. remember reading an article about andy cave years ago with a story of him saying to someone on the downfall that they needed to trust their axes more as they were bashing it to bits.

And to the OP, three hours snow doth not a winter make! (although it may bring the embankment routes into good nick with the right wind)
mysterion on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to Offwidth:
> (In reply to Sam Bennett)
>
> ...was hacked to death in days. Great fun for a possible many ruined by a selfish few...

Why do people do that - just climb the bloody thing, it's why you're there.

Iain Thow - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to Sam Bennett: Can see Mam Tor now as the snow has slacked off (still coming down a bit). Not much depth on the face - you can still see the baby boulders at the bottom of the gully and they're only 6 inches high! Melting on the roads.
Double Knee Bar - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to mysterion: Inexperience of using winter kit? If it's the first bit of ice you've ever climbed, surely some nervous crampon flailing is inevitable if you have a nervous disposition?
Offwidth - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to Double Knee Bar:

Inexperience?? If only that were true... most of the bashers in the downfall area clearly have years of bad practice behind them. One of my seconds on Crowden was on his first ice climb (with no crampons either) and managed to get the message to concentrate on balance and careful axe placement.
Simon_Sheff - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Offwidth:
> (In reply to Double Knee Bar)
>
> Inexperience?? If only that were true... most of the bashers in the downfall area clearly have years of bad practice behind them. One of my seconds on Crowden was on his first ice climb (with no crampons either) and managed to get the message to concentrate on balance and careful axe placement.


Maybe you should offer master classes to the rest of us.
xplorer on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Sam Bennett:

Been around kinder area today, needs a couple more days and nights of low temps.
smithaldo - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to xplorer: WHAT! you mean three hours of snow isnt enough. jeez this winter climbing lark has too much waiting for me. What's a new fad I can get into?
Ramblin dave - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to xplorer:
Forecast looking good for the weekend then: the BBC aren't expecting the weather in Edale to get above -2 any time soon...
Offwidth - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Simon_Sheff:

"Maybe you should offer master classes to the rest of us."

UKC Posting guidelines:

9.Looking for a fight - Threads which set out to look for trouble, invariably create trouble. Don't start them, we don't want them on the forums.

xplorer on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:

Hopefully yes. Was above freezing today until around 450. Crowden definitely needs a while longer yet. Again ground frozen around the 450 mark.
xplorer on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Sam Bennett:

Anyone fancy trying back tor tomorrow?
Simon_Sheff - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Offwidth:
> (In reply to Simon_Sheff)
>
> "Maybe you should offer master classes to the rest of us."
>
> UKC Posting guidelines:
>
> 9.Looking for a fight - Threads which set out to look for trouble, invariably create trouble. Don't start them, we don't want them on the forums.

What! Sorry to give the wrong impression, I was being light-hearted.
Sorry if you took it the wrong way
Double Knee Bar - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Simon_Sheff:
Yup, Offwidth baiting is against the UKC guidelines.

Possibilities in the Peak for the coming weekend. Anybody been out today?
Simon Caldwell - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Double Knee Bar:
> Possibilities in the Peak for the coming weekend

Possibilities include avalanches
http://mwis.org.uk/pd.php?fdate=130118
andy wa - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Toreador: think that is highly unlikely even with the snow forecast.
Offwidth - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Double Knee Bar:

Offwidth baiting is par for the course; just don't do it again and again as a creepy stranger 'just being humourous' from no profile.
smithaldo - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Toreador: avalanches of bullsh@t ... maybe.
Offwidth - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to smithaldo:

Friday Met Office Peak District mountain forecast:

"A dull day, with snow expected at times through the day. Some of the snow may be heavy and there is a risk of significant snowfall accumulations. Mountain paths are likely to become icy, and with strong to gale force winds there is also a risk of blizzard conditions developing.

Significant accumulations of fresh snow possible on flat topped moors with a stong SE wind and gullies to collect along the northern and western edges?? I'd be a bit more circumspect if I were you.
smithaldo - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Offwidth: name me a route that would likely be in condition in the peak that might be avalanched at the weekend then.

especially that running today over the burbage tops it hasn't even been cold enough to freeze that much.
smithaldo - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to smithaldo: apologies that came across offensive, I meant that there are not many areas in the peak that would have routes in climbable nick that even could be avalanched, let alone would. Thoughts?
Swiss Tony - on 16 Jan 2013
I'm up for a venture on mamtor / backtor / crowden on Friday morning / afternoon if anyone up for it ?

If conditions improve that is
Simon_Sheff - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to smithaldo:
> (In reply to smithaldo) apologies that came across offensive, I meant that there are not many areas in the peak that would have routes in climbable nick that even could be avalanched, let alone would. Thoughts?

I agree. Ridiculous bullshit.
Simon Caldwell - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to smithaldo:
> name me a route that would likely be in condition in the peak that might be avalanched at the weekend then

Who (other than you) mentioned routes that might be in condition?

My guess is that there will be no routes in condition in the Peak this weekend (though that won't stop people climbing them and logging them as 'in perfect nick'). But stand by my view that if there is as much snow as suggested, then avalanches are a possibility (not probable, but possible).
smithaldo - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to Toreador: Iain thow mentioned routes that might be in, infact he said Mam tor gully had been climbed.

If you wouldnt go climbing this weekend in the peak because of the likely level of avalanche danger then would you ever go winter climbing anywhere as i would venture anywhere with quality routes wouldhave much higher likelihood of avalanches at just about any time?

I am still struggling to think of worthwhile peak district winter routes with a high avalanche risk even in perfect avalanche conditions. Suggestions?
Red Rover - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to Toreador:

Do you not think Wilderness Gully might be in condition? It's will have been below freezing for 4 or 5 days by the weekend wont it? Just asking because I'm fairly new to all this dont want to waste any petrol money.
smithaldo - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to Red Rover: actually, wilderness gully probably fits my own criteria for risky with lots of snow and probably worth doing.
Tomfurey - on 17 Jan 2013
: Having recently moved into the peak from North Wales I must admit this is all very bizarre after a quick Google it appears there have been avalanches in the past http://www.edalemrt.co.uk/edale_team_history.html but it was in 1965. When as iv been told.... Winters where Harsh! If anyone wants to continue this convocation I will be a resident in the CIC hut for the next week before moving to cairngorm until spring arrives.
Simon Caldwell - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to Red Rover:
It might be (and as smithaldo says, it's also got a reputation for avalanches). But reading what people have posted over the last few days, thinks don't seem to have been as frozen as you might expect.

Simon Caldwell - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to smithaldo:
> if you wouldnt go climbing this weekend in the peak because of the likely level of avalanche danger

i wouldn't go climbing this weekend because i'm not expecting conditions to be much good, not because there might be avalanches (which are unlikely to be on climbing routes anyway, and least not routes that you'd want to climb).

i've not been to the peak lately, but was walking in the yorkshire dales last weekend, and even though it was cold, the ground was mostly unfrozen and wet. Stick a big dump of snow on top of this and it's likely to slide.

Mam Tor gully (the indirect finish) can be climbed in just about any conditions, even under unconsolidated powder on top of unfrozen rubble. And great fun it is too - I tried the direct in those conditions and backed off 4m from the top via a scary traverse, was relieved to get in my first bit of gear when I reached the trig point :)
Offwidth - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to Tomfurey:

There have been many smaller avalanches over the years and the sort of weather predicted is what generates a small risk of such things. I don't see anyone predicting major risk but they can happen and there have been fatalities in the past. I've had wind slab fracture under me when playing on Kinder North after heavy snow driven on strong SE winds formed on an icy slope (luckily just a short ride with no damage).
Offwidth - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to smithaldo:

The thing is in the days I was super-keen bad conditions often meant I'd head for Kinder and nearby areas as a quick chance to get out and I knew the terrain well enough not to worry about navigation. Even though the Snake Pass closed regularly often you could get to the parking below Snake Pass Inn with no trouble or if not try stuff a little lower (Alport castles etc).
Red Rover - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to Toreador: I had ideas of walking round the edge of Black hill seeing if any of the gullies like at the top issue clough had frozen up, then heading over to chew, but youre right, if all this snow forecast on friday does come then maybe neing down in those cloughs and gullies would put me in the firing line. Might just go walking on the ridges and tops.
Simon Caldwell - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to Red Rover:
if you're in the area anyway it'd be worth a look :)

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