UKC

OK, I've done the Direct and I've read the route descriptions for Superdirect E1 and Diagonal HVS. And I have a long weekend in N Wales coming up....

Strikes me that Diagonal is the bolder proposition but that Superdirect is tech harder (obviously) and with a bit of an imposing final pitch.

Is Diagonal as bold as the selected guidebook says (which it also said about the Direct, which wasn't bold at all)? Is Superdirect very pumpy up the top pitch or is it a reasonable proposition with good pro?

Your thoughts please good gentlepeople of RT....

Oh yes, when I was there last, I saw a lot of people who appeared to be starting both Diagonal and Superdirect well to the right of the start of the Direct - seemed to be pushing up through a short barrier of overhanging rock. Yet the guide talks about starting at the same place as the Direct and then traversing right before moving up again. However, hiave heard talk of rockfall (maybe this has altered the start to the routes). Anyone know what is the correct way to go?

In reply to JonC:

Diagonal is good. The main action is for a few moves on pitch 2, they do feel quite exicting and exposed (I thought the gear was little more than decoration)but commit and you should romp through. I was whooping with delight when I did it a few years back.

In reply to JonC: I seconded Superdirect 10y ago by memory one thin move left + up which is away from good protection on the midddle pitch but top pitch reasonable pro + thuggery - good value

In reply to JonC: From what I remember (and this info is over 10 years old) Diagonal is bold but technically quite easy, with some devious route finding.

Superdirect has a bold and somewhat unstable first pitch, a second pitch which is one of the finest in the land - run out but the gear is good where you need it, the third pitch is safe and steady.

Andy F

Thanks all.

Andy, where did the "unstable" 1st pitch go? Did you go straight up throught steep ground or up a few feet before a big rightwards traverse from the start of the Direct (by a flake near the foot of the lowest point of the crag)? I did hear someone mention rockfall, possibly altering the start.

In reply to JonC:

Both are very good, Diagonal had some 'little' gear, but neither are desparately bold and both have a slightly thin move on them. Both fair at the grade I would have said, with diagonal being in the upper half of the HVS area.

Both brilliant, and likely to be heaving with people this weekend if the heatwave continues! - For another shady alternative try the Grooves with the Overhanging Arete Finish on Cyn Lass (sp?) E1, then E2 with the alt finish. The slightly longer walkin should deter some people at least...

In reply to ChrisC:

thanks for comments/ideas

am there friday as well so may be quieter then

In reply to JonC: I remember going almost straight up to the belay near the shield, and being glad that it was my mates lead for the first pitch

Andy F

In reply to JonC:

the superdirect is quite bold on the middle pitch but superb. The top pitch is just a but strenuous - your mate's lead.

In reply to JonC:
It was 15 years ago but I remember using a small RP on the crux (3rd pitch) of Diagonal. May not have been much use but the position is so "out there" that any physcological assistance is helpful. Still one of the best routes I've ever done.

In reply to daveP:

it will all be my lead - which may be a good or bad thing dependent upon frame of mind on the day

kind of why I want a bit of info in advance, want to be fairly sure I won't have an epic on it...

In reply to JonC:

Superdirect is a great route and felt quite reasonable for the grade. The protection is fine if you take small wires, its a little run out but not too bad. Top pitch is short and steep.

I did Diagonal a few weeks ago. The third crux pitch is bold up until the mantleshelf. At this point it looks like a lot of people shuttle of right past a good pocket which takes a large wire.

However, if not bottling it, the mantle into the scoop can be protected with aforementioned large wire. Once you're in the scope there's a couple of good wires and the rest of the pitch easy. The last pitch is awkward.

In reply to JonC:

diagonal is very bold for a Welsh HVS but not unfair for the grade. The last pitch is possibly the crux though. I can't remeber anything about Super Direct so I guess it is OK. Plexus Nexus and Lorraine are all good if the other two are busy.

In reply to JonC:

Diagonal is a strange one and the comments on this thread reinforce that. We started way over on the left somewhere. I seem to remember that what is or was described as the start of Zeta is now the approved method, but the rockfall was a long while ago – certainly pre the present Pass guide. It should be pretty obvious.

The second pitch (the one leading to the shield belay) I thought was reasonably bold but quite easy. The third pitch, the supposed crux, the long lonely lead described in Hard Rock, was the strange one, because as far as I could see it was a perfectly protected boulder problem followed by a romp. I think it’s supposed to be a mantelshelf, but I remember it more as a fingery bridge up. Either way, I didn’t find it half so intimidating as I expected, and this was when HVS was a very big thing for me. Having said that, it was quite a few years ago, so if I went back I might see it totally differently.

Good choice of crag for this weather btw; damned cold in my experience in anything BUT a heatwave.

In reply to JonC:
Haven't done either (but may do this weekend - see you there?)
I can however fully recommend The Chain, an E1 5b crack at the top of Western Slabs - really really really good.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


Yes, fairly sure others weren't doing the supposed start. Could well have been Zeta.


This was what I wondered, as the guidebooks talk of the 2nd pitch on the Direct as being bold and it wasn't at all bold. Tons of pro. In fact the whole route was well protected.


Yes, seems like a good spot to hang out on a hot day

In reply to JonC:

ok haven't done this for a bit 'cos it got boring but.....
go and find out. They're both great and best experienced on sight and if you fail due to boldness or strenuosity it doesn't really matter...better than knowing it all beforehand..and you've got the guidbook, grades, Hard Rock etc anyway.

In reply to betablocker:

Well, perhaps, but it's fun to think about in advance and it's not like people have told me how to climb them. Was also (seriously) interested about the start to the routes which appears to have changed. Also, doing them with a partner who is not capable of leading any pitches so will have no back up as such (which is often some comfort if with someone of similar/better ability).

In reply to Tom Chamberlain:

So is The Link E1 5c up the obvious inverted cleft!!

Bob

In reply to JonC: There are really no poor routes on the Nose and a cracking route to do if the others are busy is West Rib of the same vintage as Diagonal. I doubt it will be busy as the pro is well run out!

In reply to chris s:

about 10 years ago my mate persuaded me to follow him up diagonal solo (he'd done it before, i hadn't)- found the crux pitch fine, but the last pitch was somewhat exciting as it is indeed a bit awkward, ok with gear tho..quality route-have done it plenty of times since, but not solo!

In reply to JonC:

Did both routes earlier this year, we were also confused by the start to the superdirect. We did the scoop to the right as it made it possible to leapfrog parties on the direct and diagonal. The grade was consistent with the rest of the climb and the gear was acceptable for the devious. You seem to have plenty of advice on the rest of the routes, have a good weekend.

In reply to JonC:

So how many RTs were in the Pass this weekend?

I did Diagonal on Saturday morning - your description is spot on, John - nothing like as hard as Hard Rock makes it sound, but a brilliant route! - and it was blissfully cool. But even in the shade the crag was hot and sweaty by mid afternoon. And who were the guys having an epic on the Gates? They must have been absolutely baked - they were in full sun for a good three hours

SteveC

In reply to JonC: I don't think I've ever done a route on the Nose other than Direct and been really sure that I've found the 'right' route for the first pitch... As for pro, maybe spaced but nobodys going to deck it on Diagonal or Superdirect.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

No, but when you're leading pitch three, with (in my case) only a *very* dodgy runner somewhere by your feet between you and a fall factor 2 situation, then the thought crossed my mind that should I slip, then I'd go down, swing round and slap against the buttress my partner was belayed on top of. This was not an appealing thought. No, you might not deck it, but who's to say that would be less serious?

Anyway, I did that alright. Bold but fantastic, memorable climbing. It's a shame there's so little of it on that pitch.

However, the following day I did fall off, from right at the end of the second pitch of Spectre on the Grochan, to be held by a friend placed in the groove before the traverse. Which was nice. Especially as I could only just touch the rock with my toes when I'd come to rest, and had to swing back and forth until I could grasp the ropes going upwards and be lowered down. Happy days!

Tony

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

A mate decked it on Diagonal years ago, luckily it was on rope stretch and he went back up about 20ft. he was not hurt but the belayer had bad rope burns to his hands, a case for belaying gloves especially if not as experienced as the leader.