In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to stella1)
> [...]
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> The only way to know for sure is to do a pupil swap i.e. private school kids go to a state and vice versa and see what the results are like.
Well yes, a randomised control trial would tell us, and I'd be fascinating to know the answer - shame about the practicalities, often the way. My own hunch would be that the 'extra' you pay for is actually pretty small, in that if you're bright and have had an upbringing that really encourages learning and doing well at school, then you'll do fine at a state school. I went to a really good, very mixed state school with lots of ethnic minorities including a good handful of refugees straight from Somalia who didn't know what the hell was going on, some white working class kids, some middle class kids. Guess what, the middle class kids who'd been brought up with loads of books and visits to the Natural History Museum at weekends, whose parents had high expectations which they passed on to their children did really well and got top grades, and those from poorer social backgrounds did less well. I'm sure the school makes a difference, but lots of people - especially politicians - seem to believe that kids are like uniform materials going into a factory and what comes out the other end depends on how good the machines in the factory are at making kids into GCSE and A-level grades.
I got a great education, got top grades, and feel that I would have missed out on the healthy, diverse social environment had I gone to a private school. I guess I thought that most state schools were like that, but reading this thread, perhaps many more are crap than I realised, and there's a wider gap between catchment areas rather than the mix I experienced?
As for the unfairness of private education being available, it doesn't bother me much. There is certainly an elite of people who go to posh schools, top universities and get top jobs, and opportunities are handed down from one generation to the next. While it leaves a slightly sour taste (especially when you turn on the TV and see who's running this place), I think any attempt to wipe that out is undemocratic and basically wrong. It's human nature to want to provide the best for your kids, and I don't believe anyone would vote for policies that prevent you from doing so (except for some far-left extremists). The important thing is that ordinary kids are not prevented from being top doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc by receiving a crap education and not having access to funding. Yes, it might be harder for someone from a poor background to become a surgeon or a minister, but as long as it's perfectly possible then I reckon that's a reasonable balance - you can't have it both ways, there are consequences of living in a democracy rather than some crazy centrally planned regime.
I don't think that state education needs to be 'as good' as private education, that would make no sense and be utterly unaffordable. It just needs to be good enough that it gives bright kids ample opportunities to get into the top universities, and of course to give them a more generally sound education in terms of social values and the value of learning itself.