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I was talking to friends about music and 50 years since this and 50 years since the release of that, and was wondering if any music event has had the massive impact both musically and cuturally that the 'birth' of rock and roll did.
Did the world change as much as the music journo's say. Was is so different to what was already out there? Was it gradual or did it just seem like "BOOM here I am!' to the people around at the time.
Did the development of HipHop and the dance music scene not seem as big a shift?
Did the world change as much as the music journo's say. Was is so different to what was already out there? Was it gradual or did it just seem like "BOOM here I am!' to the people around at the time.
Did the development of HipHop and the dance music scene not seem as big a shift?
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):
Well yes, duh! The first sing-a-long around a campfire took place about 125,000 years ago. Since immortalised by millions of scouts and guides the world over.
Here's the proof if you needed it (though they still need to add a bit about singing around campfires in the "behaviour changes" section).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans
> was wondering if any music event has had the massive impact both musically and cuturally that the 'birth' of rock and roll did.
Well yes, duh! The first sing-a-long around a campfire took place about 125,000 years ago. Since immortalised by millions of scouts and guides the world over.
Here's the proof if you needed it (though they still need to add a bit about singing around campfires in the "behaviour changes" section).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans
In reply to Skyfall:
But I'm assuming the media was less developed 125,000 years ago so although that first singing round the hearth had a grand effect on the 2-3 nomadic families present, the 2-3 nomadic families 50 miles away however were still only humming and tapping for another 50 years
But I'm assuming the media was less developed 125,000 years ago so although that first singing round the hearth had a grand effect on the 2-3 nomadic families present, the 2-3 nomadic families 50 miles away however were still only humming and tapping for another 50 years
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):
I don't think that's what the dinosaurs thought when they heard the first discordant attempts at Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree, let out a collective groan and keeled over en masse. As you say, the media weren't around then and all we have is a rather incomplete fossil record. However, campfire singing can have quite an impact. Just lucky the dinosaurs weren't still around when someone invented the bagpipes, or the instrument of torture that is the ukelele.
I don't think that's what the dinosaurs thought when they heard the first discordant attempts at Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree, let out a collective groan and keeled over en masse. As you say, the media weren't around then and all we have is a rather incomplete fossil record. However, campfire singing can have quite an impact. Just lucky the dinosaurs weren't still around when someone invented the bagpipes, or the instrument of torture that is the ukelele.
In reply to Skyfall:
I appreciate your commitment to contributing to this thread.... Perseverance is always an appealing trait
I appreciate your commitment to contributing to this thread.... Perseverance is always an appealing trait
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):
Standardisation of musical notation
Formalisation of tuning
Printing of sheet music
Invention of recording equipment
Fist fights at the ballet ( http://classicalmusic.about.com/od/20thcenturymusic/qt/rite-of-spring.htm )
Standardisation of musical notation
Formalisation of tuning
Printing of sheet music
Invention of recording equipment
Fist fights at the ballet ( http://classicalmusic.about.com/od/20thcenturymusic/qt/rite-of-spring.htm )
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):
I think the punk movement in the late 70s has had a profound effect on all uk music since.
> I was talking to friends about music and 50 years since this and 50 years since the release of that, and was wondering if any music event has had the massive impact both musically and cuturally that the 'birth' of rock and roll did.
>
> Did the world change as much as the music journo's say. Was is so different to what was already out there? Was it gradual or did it just seem like "BOOM here I am!' to the people around at the time.
>
> Did the development of HipHop and the dance music scene not seem as big a shift?
>
> Did the world change as much as the music journo's say. Was is so different to what was already out there? Was it gradual or did it just seem like "BOOM here I am!' to the people around at the time.
>
> Did the development of HipHop and the dance music scene not seem as big a shift?
I think the punk movement in the late 70s has had a profound effect on all uk music since.
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):
Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, 1722 - first music to use the perfected (by Bach) diatonic scale, still in use by all western music today, including pop music. Can be said to be the start of modern music.
Beethoven's Eroica Symphony, 1803, is often seen as the first piece of music to start the move from the classical to the romantic traditions. Beethoven's impact on the whole of modern music is equal to or greater than Bach's.
Ragtime and Blues, late 1890s, in America.
Stravinsky, Rite of Spring, 1913, ushered in a new kind of distinctive C20th sound, with its very strong percussion, irregular rhythms, bitonality, discordancy etc. Had a huge influence on earlier (and later) film music.
Jazz, early 1920s, Louis Armstrong etc
Rock and Roll 1950s, well-documented. Several key players.
(I'd like to say that the use of pre-composed pieces by Penderecki in The Exorcist and The Shining had an enormous influence on horror film music scores).
Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, 1722 - first music to use the perfected (by Bach) diatonic scale, still in use by all western music today, including pop music. Can be said to be the start of modern music.
Beethoven's Eroica Symphony, 1803, is often seen as the first piece of music to start the move from the classical to the romantic traditions. Beethoven's impact on the whole of modern music is equal to or greater than Bach's.
Ragtime and Blues, late 1890s, in America.
Stravinsky, Rite of Spring, 1913, ushered in a new kind of distinctive C20th sound, with its very strong percussion, irregular rhythms, bitonality, discordancy etc. Had a huge influence on earlier (and later) film music.
Jazz, early 1920s, Louis Armstrong etc
Rock and Roll 1950s, well-documented. Several key players.
(I'd like to say that the use of pre-composed pieces by Penderecki in The Exorcist and The Shining had an enormous influence on horror film music scores).
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):
I'd say that Beethoven, Stravinsky and possibly Elvis, had exactly the 'boom' factor you're referring to.
I'd say that Beethoven, Stravinsky and possibly Elvis, had exactly the 'boom' factor you're referring to.
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):
Like doz generale, I was going to say punk.
Not as massive a thing as "the birth of rock and roll" but in my time, the Bohemian Rhapsody video was amazing and new.
Like doz generale, I was going to say punk.
Not as massive a thing as "the birth of rock and roll" but in my time, the Bohemian Rhapsody video was amazing and new.
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):
Disco was a massive movement and fed in to both modern dance music and Hip Hop. Nile Rogers is legend!
Disco had a political and racial dimension as well - all this running alongside glam-rock and punk.
> I was talking to friends about music and 50 years since this and 50 years since the release of that, and was wondering if any music event has had the massive impact both musically and cuturally that the 'birth' of rock and roll did.
>
> Did the world change as much as the music journo's say. Was is so different to what was already out there? Was it gradual or did it just seem like "BOOM here I am!' to the people around at the time.
>
> Did the development of HipHop and the dance music scene not seem as big a shift?
>
> Did the world change as much as the music journo's say. Was is so different to what was already out there? Was it gradual or did it just seem like "BOOM here I am!' to the people around at the time.
>
> Did the development of HipHop and the dance music scene not seem as big a shift?
Disco was a massive movement and fed in to both modern dance music and Hip Hop. Nile Rogers is legend!
Disco had a political and racial dimension as well - all this running alongside glam-rock and punk.
In reply to PeterM:
Not so much with the Howard Jones!
Anyway, Disco caused a racist and homophobic backlash: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/jun/18/disco-sucks
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Howard jones...
>
> Howard jones...
Not so much with the Howard Jones!
Anyway, Disco caused a racist and homophobic backlash: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/jun/18/disco-sucks
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):
I think when people started making music on computers that was a massive shift. It's pretty hard to think of a sensible point as the "birth" of electronic music, but being able to make music without an orchestra, or a band, or single instrument or voice is a pretty significant.
Unlike something like punk, it doesn't have a big effect on wider culture, as it's generally utterly apolitical music often with no words, and is a lot is just to dance to (not something that appeals to everyone) but in terms of changing what's on offer to listen to, it's completely revolutionary. Once a culture of electronic music as something quite arty rather than just dancy got under way (I'd say with stuff like Aphex Twin and Black Dog) I think that changed music massively. Now, any creative geek can make music from the bedroom and release it onto the internet, it's a completely different culture to anything that has gone before.
But not many people like it, so it hasn't changed the world much.
I think when people started making music on computers that was a massive shift. It's pretty hard to think of a sensible point as the "birth" of electronic music, but being able to make music without an orchestra, or a band, or single instrument or voice is a pretty significant.
Unlike something like punk, it doesn't have a big effect on wider culture, as it's generally utterly apolitical music often with no words, and is a lot is just to dance to (not something that appeals to everyone) but in terms of changing what's on offer to listen to, it's completely revolutionary. Once a culture of electronic music as something quite arty rather than just dancy got under way (I'd say with stuff like Aphex Twin and Black Dog) I think that changed music massively. Now, any creative geek can make music from the bedroom and release it onto the internet, it's a completely different culture to anything that has gone before.
But not many people like it, so it hasn't changed the world much.
In reply to Shani:
I think I was trying to say that the 80's was, for the most part,just such a musical event, in the respect that it set music back decades.
Disco was a bit pants, though, really...
I think I was trying to say that the 80's was, for the most part,just such a musical event, in the respect that it set music back decades.
Disco was a bit pants, though, really...
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Has anyone had a Road to Damascus momemt with music? i.e
When I heard Chuck Berry for the first time my lfe changed!
From the first 'dunk' of massive attacks teardrop I knew I wanted to be involved in music!
the first time I saw the spice girls i knew I wanted to knob a girl in a Union Jack dress!
etc
etc
Has anyone had a Road to Damascus momemt with music? i.e
When I heard Chuck Berry for the first time my lfe changed!
From the first 'dunk' of massive attacks teardrop I knew I wanted to be involved in music!
the first time I saw the spice girls i knew I wanted to knob a girl in a Union Jack dress!
etc
etc
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):
The first time I heard the drums that kick in on this at 1:35 my ears didn't know what just him them:
youtube.com/watch?v=dbqph6DfXpA&
I was a teenager at the time, and it has dated fairly badly, but it totally changed what music was for me (up 'til then I listened to indie bands with depressing lyrics that either were, or were trying to be The Smiths).
The first time I heard the drums that kick in on this at 1:35 my ears didn't know what just him them:
youtube.com/watch?v=dbqph6DfXpA&
I was a teenager at the time, and it has dated fairly badly, but it totally changed what music was for me (up 'til then I listened to indie bands with depressing lyrics that either were, or were trying to be The Smiths).
In reply to Jon Stewart:
The release of Rolf Harris's Stylophone surely!
> It's pretty hard to think of a sensible point as the "birth" of electronic music
The release of Rolf Harris's Stylophone surely!
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):
I think all these things get over sold on myth and legend, if you went back to the birth of rock and roll it would be just a few kids playing on shitty practice amps, but then it's not about the boom, it's about a bit more than that. Roll on the third summer of love eh, but then when the kids get their Woodstock moment some bore will be going on about don't you know it was back in 07, when the masses were tuned into the x factor.... sold out eh!
I think all these things get over sold on myth and legend, if you went back to the birth of rock and roll it would be just a few kids playing on shitty practice amps, but then it's not about the boom, it's about a bit more than that. Roll on the third summer of love eh, but then when the kids get their Woodstock moment some bore will be going on about don't you know it was back in 07, when the masses were tuned into the x factor.... sold out eh!
In terms of the guitar:
Berry
Hendrix/Clapton
Van Halen
Malmsteen
Berry
Hendrix/Clapton
Van Halen
Malmsteen
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Oi! I beat you to that, with my "fist fights at the ballet"
An objective and unbiased opinion again ehh?
>
> Stravinsky, Rite of Spring, 1913, ushered in a new kind of distinctive C20th sound, with its very strong percussion, irregular rhythms, bitonality, discordancy etc.
> Stravinsky, Rite of Spring, 1913, ushered in a new kind of distinctive C20th sound, with its very strong percussion, irregular rhythms, bitonality, discordancy etc.
Oi! I beat you to that, with my "fist fights at the ballet"
> (I'd like to say that the use of pre-composed pieces by Penderecki in The Exorcist and The Shining had an enormous influence on horror film music scores).
An objective and unbiased opinion again ehh?
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC): Rock against racism, the first organised music/politics crossover.
In reply to stroppygob:
Was it really? As late as 1976 there hadn't been an organised music/politics crossover? Surely not?
And do you seriously think it had the same musical and cultural impact as the emergence of rock-and-roll as a genre?
Was it really? As late as 1976 there hadn't been an organised music/politics crossover? Surely not?
And do you seriously think it had the same musical and cultural impact as the emergence of rock-and-roll as a genre?
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):
Another vote for the Rite - but only the true dischordant version caused riots, the cleaned up version that preluded it didnt get the same reaction.
Otherwise, ive heard that the mass influx of player piano rolls across civil war america was the first recorded music boom and that many of the songs were political drinking songs that became the ragtime that became helped become jazz.
Another vote for the Rite - but only the true dischordant version caused riots, the cleaned up version that preluded it didnt get the same reaction.
Otherwise, ive heard that the mass influx of player piano rolls across civil war america was the first recorded music boom and that many of the songs were political drinking songs that became the ragtime that became helped become jazz.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
I stand to be corrected, but I believe it was.
Not at all, I threw it in for its significance, rather than its importance.
> (In reply to stroppygob)
>
> Was it really? As late as 1976 there hadn't been an organised music/politics crossover? Surely not?
>
> Was it really? As late as 1976 there hadn't been an organised music/politics crossover? Surely not?
I stand to be corrected, but I believe it was.
> And do you seriously think it had the same musical and cultural impact as the emergence of rock-and-roll as a genre?
Not at all, I threw it in for its significance, rather than its importance.
In reply to johnj: Third summer of love? I need to get my mountain bike built and my rock boots dusted off. Should be back in dodge soon. x
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC): I've not been the same since first hearing Richard Clayderman.
In reply to Removed Userena sharples:
The truth is, there has been so little of any particular impact at all in popular music in the last thirty years. People who did not live in the 60s just seem to have no idea quite how different it was then - how the Beatles, for example, permeated the whole of life, were heard everywhere, every day, by everybody. Partly because the radio still dominated over telly, but something much more than that: it seemed to touch a national nerve, so that that all ages, all classes, all types, were swept up by it.
The truth is, there has been so little of any particular impact at all in popular music in the last thirty years. People who did not live in the 60s just seem to have no idea quite how different it was then - how the Beatles, for example, permeated the whole of life, were heard everywhere, every day, by everybody. Partly because the radio still dominated over telly, but something much more than that: it seemed to touch a national nerve, so that that all ages, all classes, all types, were swept up by it.
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