/ Biggest number of failures
[Has to be a reasonably popular route, I've already thought of the smart-arse answer "Wuthering Direct Start - 100%" or similar.]
It'll obviously be a grit route (more ascents + very back-offable), here's a few that might be contenders:
One of mine. Given that not that many failures will be logged, there's quite a few in the logbooks there.
This is looking good for "lead dog" and "lead dfn":
Quite a few on here...
I suspect Finale HVS+!!! (as per the guide) at Shepherds sees a fair amount of airtime.
Chipperydoodah at Stone Farm. That must be on at least a 20:1 attempt:failure ratio
Chequer's Crack, hyper-popular crag, good line, innocuous looking, tough little bugger = lots of dogging, frigging and froggin!
Quietus has a high ratio of dnfs but If we can include boulder problems you'll be hard pushed to find a climb with more failures than deliverence. In the middle of the most popular bouldering area in the country (probably) and looks piss. Must get more than 100 fails a month easy.
Oh yes, Orpheus Wall at Birchen seems to have an insitu leader failing on multiple attempts each time I walk past...
Chipperydoodah is an absolute bugger, never managed the direct finish even when I was climbing down there three times a week.
That depends on whether you class backing off as failure. I prefer to think of it as exercising judgement and deciding to leave the committed attempt for another day. I think if you use the usual weighting-the-rope-or-gear criterion as failure then the biggest number of failures s far more likely to be on a sport route - probably one which is relatively easy (so lots of people try it) but with a very bouldery crux (so few people get it first go).
I think this has to be limited to trad routes, since with sport or bouldering I guess you haven't really failed until you're dead and you can't have another go.
Really? What about the Cuillin Ridge? People must have been trying to have a go at it for well over a hundred years, and there are loads of places to bail out, not to mention loads of reasons for bailing out.
I think down climbing isn't a failure; inverting accidentally, vomitting on your belayer or crying like a distressed toddler probably are though.
Why doesn't the log book have an option for "Onsight but so frightened I had to burn my trousers afterwards"?
(thats coming from someone who has never been on it mind)
I think for this purpose, backing off is a failure. And sometimes the distinction is not clear-cut: if I reverse a bit of Charlie's Overhang and drop off onto a pad (as I have done about 20 times), did I back off or fail? Both I would say! A route that is constantly backed off has the characteristics I'm interested in.
Then it's probably Remergence ;-)
> (thats coming from someone who has never been on it mind)
It's on the cusp, but I for one am not up for falling off after fully committing to the mantel. I have seen a few people rescued from that position though (been given an extra handhold).
> Then it's probably Remergence ;-)
OK, ok. For it to be a failure, you have to have intended to get to the top! Happy now?
Not according to the logbooks - which is hardly surprising, what with it being quite steady at HVS (the "++" in the guide is clearly nonsense; it's far from desperate at the grade).
> Really? What about the Cuillin Ridge? People must have been trying to have a go at it for well over a hundred years, and there are loads of places to bail out, not to mention loads of reasons for bailing out.
Yeah alright. Good lateral thinking (not being a rock climb).
The File has loads
> Yeah alright. Good lateral thinking (not being a rock climb).
Aye, I suppose it is quite literally lateral!
It's funny how all these routes are jamming cracks eh?
Yup. I failed on most of the grit classics mentioned so far (some I've been back and done fine, others not).
Verandah Buttress has a steady stream of visitors who wander to the bottom, wriggle, flail for a bit, and then walk away muttering. Though I expect few bother logging it.
Also the 2nd pitch of Embankment 1 at Millstone. I've ended up dogging that several times now (although admittedly that was when it was still a total sandbag at E1 5b).
I go to Bowden Doors at least once a year. Every visit I pump out and fail on Canada Crack. On a good day I fail on it twice. I'd like to think other people do the same...
> ...(not being a rock climb).
Ravens Gully on the Buachaille isn't a rock climb either (I don't know what it is, just the fairly competent rock climbing up to E2 approach failed.)
It's in Hard Rock as well, so must get more suitors than is reflected in the logbook on here. I would imagine that there hasn't been many clean onsights ever.
Er, the logbook shows precisely that. More "climbed" than "onsight". Looks like most have voted for it to be hard at HVS. Many comments about it being pumpy for HVS etc.
If you were climbing E5 when you did Finale maybe you couldn't actually tell...?
> [Has to be a reasonably popular route, I've already thought of the smart-arse answer "Wuthering Direct Start - 100%" or similar.]
> It'll obviously be a grit route (more ascents + very back-offable),
I'm interested that you see grit as being back-offable. I find it harder to downclimb grit than limestone for example because the moves are often balancy with less positive handholds. Are you talking about height?
> re Finale
I think Finale is quite a bit easier than most E1s at Shepherds and not too hard for HVS either.
I've done physically easier E1's at Shepherds and other places. Finale is very safe really, hence why it's HVS.
I'm not sure why I'm getting drawn into this. I just put it foward as one that is very fall off'able and one that is (relatively safely) fallen off a lot. As I said, the logbook does actually support this with more "climbed" than "clean onsight". And read the comments.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. And I'm 100% sure there are other routes see more failures.
> I'm interested that you see grit as being back-offable. I find it harder to downclimb grit than limestone for example because the moves are often balancy with less positive handholds. Are you talking about height?
I back off grit routes left right and centre. Traversing off is often an option, and there are plenty of routes with a crux at a perfectly down-climbable position. Then of course there are the committing routes where you do an irreversible move and then find it gets harder..."TOP ROPE!!! TOP ROPE!!!" . I've done all of those, on multiple occasions, as well as countless dangle-of-shames.
Good to hear that! When I failed outright (lower-off of shame after multiple attempts turning the lip) I too pronounced it to be 6b.
How far did they get? Was it a GUMClub team. A good friend from the club on sigted it in winter.
Surely it's flying buttress direct, certainly for total route failures probably for percentages too I'd think.
> Roof route at Rivelin must be a contender. Nice and easy to go and have a look, easyish to the lip and then very droppable.
> Other routes of a similar nature like Jeepers Creepers are also up there (c'mon Joe Brown!)
Yup. Undercut Crack, Cave Crack and Harvest must also see their fair share. I refuse to try any of them.
Chequers Crack, it used to be a standard solo?
> Hang on, the answer is obvious:
> Just look at the fail rate in those logbooks.
have you looked at the amount of dnf's on Masochism
at least most people eventually get up the vice.
I think a trip to Ramshaw is on the cards when it eventually dries out.
I guess the most famous would be Strawberries, if you're looking at a ratio of attempts:onsights, although I realise this falls a bit out of the reasonably popular requirement in the OP
Agreed. My vote is "Hamish Teddys Excellent Adventure" at Dunkeld. It's frequently sieged by numerous parties or individuals (including myself)and is a good length, top quality route at F7b+. Plus, it's very often dry when other routes or crags are soaking, so can be climbed pretty much all year round. It's also very hard to onsight, (unless you've the stamina of an ox) as the holds and sequences only reveal themselves slowly after many attempts.
> have you looked at the amount of dnf's on Masochism
> at least most people eventually get up the vice.
Definitely. Your lead! (Definitely get on Gumshoe btw, brilliant bouldery route with very cool moves.)
Off topic but i'm not about this weekend, got family over.
Hate to be logical 'n all but it has to be on a very popular crag and have stars and causing trouble for those in the modal grade range. Hence I'd also say Verandah Buttress by some distance (and yes combined tactics is a fail as the route is graded 5b and if you don't do the move you dont get the tick). The real grade for the route is still more like S 4c of course. As for some of your others I know someone only about 10 routes off completing the Rockfax EG top 500 and The Vice still awaits a clean ascent. Even then Masochism may be harder for its grade. As for Charlies, everyone I've watched have a serious go, got it quickly (the fear always visible on that top-out)... so you must be a wuss ;-)
It's a little tricky for a VS but I wouldn't say it was a sandbag.
> As for some of your others I know someone only about 10 routes off completing the Rockfax EG top 500 and The Vice still awaits a clean ascent. Even then Masochism may be harder for its grade. As for Charlies, everyone I've watched have a serious go, got it quickly (the fear always visible on that top-out)... so you must be a wuss ;-)
Best to comment on routes you've actually done I think!
I vote for chequers crack
I completely agree with you Al. But the OP was about routes that people fail on a lot. Chequers crack is classic for that. I've lost count of the amount of times people have had epic failures on it.
People like me who back in the day marched up as a 'competent' E1 leader and did exactly what you said above :-)
"Best to comment on routes you've actually done I think!"
...and you a responsible grown-up family man 'n all
> Hang on, the answer is obvious:
> Just look at the fail rate in those logbooks.
As soon as I read your first post, I thought of this. Although maybe that was just a desperate wish for it to be not just me that found it impossible!
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