/ 6 nations (spoilers)

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balmybaldwin - on 02 Feb 2013
Not looking good for Wales is it?

Ireland playing ok, but not fantastically, although zebo seems to have the midas touch
Oceanrower - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: that was a fantastic charge down though.
Al Evans on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: My prediction is that Wales are not going to win the six nations this year.
Oceanrower - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Al Evans: you may be right....
balmybaldwin - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Oceanrower:

It would help if they stopped passing in to touch!
Horse on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Did I miss Robinson being appointed to the Welsh coaching staff?
Al Evans on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Ireland are crap at lineouts!
Horse on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Al Evans:

Score board says it doesn't matter.
Frank4short - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Al Evans)
>
> Score board says it doesn't matter.

What he said ^^^^

Plus that second try had to be one of the bests bits of play I've seen in a long time. Simon Zeebo is just on fire. I mean for Gods sake off of his boot into his hands that was amazing. (I am of course slightly biased mind)
Horse on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

Good try from Wales, they need to keep running at Earls he is out of his depth as a defensive centre.
Shani - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse

Sloper has suddenly gone VERY QUIET. Do you fancy texting him to cheer him up?
KellyKettle - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: Wales have apparently remembered how to play rugby, hell they might even pull it back if they keep up like that.
Alan Taylor - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: Thought the post counted?
Alan Taylor - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Alan Taylor: Seen from different angle now, good decision
Horse on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:
> In reply to Horse
>
> Sloper has suddenly gone VERY QUIET.

That is a first.
Kipper - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to Horse) Ireland are crap ...

But looks like they're going to pull off a jammy win. Wales should have turned up in the first half.

Frank4short - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Kipper:

> But looks like they're going to pull off a jammy win. Wales should have turned up in the first half.

I'm not sure where you're getting jammy from. We dominated in the first half and when we needed to did what we had to in defence in the second half.

All of that asides brilliant game of rugby no matter what side you were cheering for. My heart was in my mouth for most of the second half.
Shani - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Frank4short:
> (In reply to Kipper)
>
> [...]
>
> I'm not sure where you're getting jammy from. We dominated in the first half and when we needed to did what we had to in defence in the second half.
>
> All of that asides brilliant game of rugby no matter what side you were cheering for. My heart was in my mouth for most of the second half.

First half was full if you're Welsh. Seconds half things were more competitive.
Shani - on 02 Feb 2013
Scotland clearly on a diet of humble crumble......
gribble - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Not the most exciting yet...
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Shani - on 02 Feb 2013
Sloper gently sobbing to himself. Life is good.
Horse on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Is he blaming the IRISH ref or English skullduggery.
Horse on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

He must be heading towards melt down now. Tell him if England keep their foot on the throat this could be heading towards 50 plus.
Shani - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: ' shambolic Scottish defence'
Horse on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Naturally
andy - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: this isn't over...
gribble - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

livening up nicely!
Horse on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

Indeed, gone a bit ragged with the subs one of whom should have been Mike Brown who is a bit of a liability at times.
andy - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to gribble: well done Courtney - takes the pressure off..
Shani - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Sloper writhing with indigestion. Humble crumble not tastting that sweet to Irish palates.
Horse on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Lets hope indigestion lasts all the way to tea time next Sunday.
thin bob on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
As an Englishman, i really enjoyed both games: nothing simple!
The scores bely the efforts put in buy the losing sides (eventually, wales!). lovely to see tries from all and some great skills. Not the most memorable games, but shaping up nicely.

That Zebo-flick thing was incredible...can he do it twice, though? :-).
coinneach - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to thin bob:

Both good games, a better performance from our lot than last year's shambles.

England won by having, big, strong guys who do the simple things well then, when some of them get a wee bit tired, they bring on some other big, strong guys who do the simple things well.

At least we managed to score a couple of tries!
Horse on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to thin bob)
>
> At least we managed to score a couple of tries!

An improvement at least when the opposition gave you a chance or two you took them, big step forward. Now if your lot could create a few themselves you might get back in the IRB Top 10 :-)
coinneach - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Or even the 6 Nations Top 5
IainFP on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to Horse)
>
> Or even the 6 Nations Top 5
If only there was a "like" button on UKC, unfortunately :-/
thin bob on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
I thought the English breakdowns were good, manged to clear quick and avoid penalties ( a heartbreaking problem last time).
Never written off Scotland, hard men with grit, even when tired. maybe not 'technical' or stylish, or 'lucky', but tough buggers!
Horse on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Round of applause. Look on the bright side, 3 home games next. Unlike Wales who have 3 away starting with a probably thumping in Paris next week. I would imagine there is plenty of space in the Welsh kitchen drawer.
Horse on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to thin bob:

My champagne moment today (you have Zebo) was the Marler pass to set up the try for Twelvetrees, as good as the ones by O'Driscoll and Farrell to also set up tries.
thin bob on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
Yep, some lovely meoments, that was one of the best I enjoyed Parling & Launchbury and seeing Ashton get stuck in a few times, rather than fannying about looking for a swan dive ;-). The New Boy done good, too.
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Horse on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to thin bob:

Not a great fan of Ashton but credit to him, he did play well today. Next week will be an altogether tougher test particularly at the breakdown, the Irish back row are more than handy.

The new boy looked to the manor born, I'd keep him for next week and launch ManOverborad for the last half hour.
Cú Chullain - on 02 Feb 2013
Put a sneaky £20 on Zebo to be the tournaments top try scorer, at 25/1 it would have been rude not to.
stroppygob - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: FFS Wales, not the news I wanted to wake up to this morning!
Oceanrower - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to stroppygob: It was on the news this morning? Bloody hell that's good reporting!
stroppygob - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Oceanrower: I live in Australia....
balmybaldwin - on 03 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Fantastic start for Italy!
Horse on 03 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

If were Scottish, (which thank the lord I'm not Sir) I'd be making some more space in the kitchen drawer :-)
Shani - on 03 Feb 2013
'Da fook? The French don't like it up 'em, and that is what the Italians are doing. Respect to them.
Horse on 03 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Well deserved by Italy, brilliant result.
Al Evans on 03 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Yo! Go Italy :-)
thin bob on 03 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
PLeased Castogiovanni got a try, gert big thumper that he is..
I couldn't stand the last 5 minutes.. fair play to Italy, they kept calm (as calm as Italy can anyway :-) ) - did the French field their women's team by mistake? ;-).
I'd like to see Italy win again next week to keep things interesting. I just wish they were playing Ireland at the time ....


[excellent results from the women's 6 nations, BTW)
balmybaldwin - on 03 Feb 2013
In reply to thin bob:

Had to go out after 25mins, just finished watching, and managed to avoid the result. Match of the weekend, great result for italy.

If they continue to play like that, they can cause problems for anyone.
Cú Chullain - on 04 Feb 2013
Looks like a Ireland v England Grand Slam decider then this weekend!

Lets do head to head line up of the two sides:


15 Kearney vs Goode - adv Ireland multi heineken cup winning 15 against converted 10 who lacks pace

14 Gilroy vs Brown - adv Ireland fleet footed winger against angry but slow man

13 O'driscoll vs Tuilagi/Barritt - adv Ireland legend vs bosh merchants

12 D'arcy vs Barritt/12trees - adv Ireland bosh merchant or inexperienced weird named player who had to move club to get a game against electric sidestepping defensive rock.

11 Zebo vs Ashton - adv Ireland swift skillful player with heaps of talent against thick fat swan diving northerner.

10 Sexton vs Farrell - Adv Ireland multi heineken cup winning 10 who is guaranteed starting for the lions against limited kicking ten who gets in due to his dad coaching the team.

9 Murray vs Youngs - Adv Ireland Feisty game controlling 9 against very thick 9 who has a crap pass.

8 Heaslip vs Morgan/Waldrom - adv ireland certain lions tourer against one of two very fat pie eaters (one who is a poach).

7 Sean O'Brien vs Robshaw - adv ireland monster ball carrier against floppy haired player that nobody can work out if he is any good or not or what he actually does.

6 O'Mahony vs Wood - equal didn't really notice them that much.

5 McCarthy vs Parling - adv Ireland Parling looks like he should paving driveways and got treated like one by Beattie

4 Ryan vs Launchbury - adv Ireland Scowling furious irish man will be pissing himself about baby faced Launchbury being englands enforcer.

3 Ross vs Marler - adv Ireland Marler can't scrummage and has a stupid haircut.

2 Rory Best vs T Youngs - adv Ireland Lions hooker against converted centre.

1 Cian Healy vs Dan Cole - adv Ireland Lions loosehead against an english player who will probably sit on the bench in the lions tour.


Kidney vs Lancaster - Multi Hcup winner and grand slam winner against over promoted youth team coach. adv Ireland

Overall Ireland 15 Pigdogs 0

Ireland favourites for the grandslam.


drunken monkey - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani: Shambolic Scottish defence? You must have been watching a different game.

England were awesome. If it wasnt for our defence being VERY good at times, England would have gave us 50 or 60 points.
andy - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain: > Ireland favourites for the grandslam.

Yep, wouldn't disagree - I'm not at all sure England will beat Wales or France either. Or Italy come to think of it!
Edradour - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

> 15 Kearney vs Goode - adv Ireland multi heineken cup winning 15 against converted 10 who lacks pace
>
> 14 Gilroy vs Brown - adv Ireland fleet footed winger against angry but slow man
>
> 13 O'driscoll vs Tuilagi/Barritt - adv Ireland legend vs bosh merchants
>
> etc etc
>
> Overall Ireland 15 Pigdogs 0
>
> Ireland favourites for the grandslam.

Very objective assessment there. Oh no wait.. :-)
Edradour - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain) > Ireland favourites for the grandslam.
>
> Yep, wouldn't disagree - I'm not at all sure England will beat Wales or France either. Or Italy come to think of it!

Where does this nonsense come from?

England have produced two excellent performances on the bounce. Farrell is dependable as a kicker and will keep the scoreboard ticking, not sure why Goode starts but the back three work well, strong front row, lots of options in the second row. A rapid 9 who is getting better at distributing quickly, options in midfield (for a change) and a good team spirit.

I think they have the makings of a very good team and certainly looked better than France, Wales and Italy this weekend. Ireland didn't turn up for the second half on Saturday.

Shani - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to drunken monkey:
> (In reply to Shani) Shambolic Scottish defence? You must have been watching a different game.
>
> England were awesome. If it wasnt for our defence being VERY good at times, England would have gave us 50 or 60 points.

I agree with you, I was simply quoting Sloper! The first thing you'll notice about Sloper when you meet him is that although he has two eyes he only uses one of them when watching rugby. What is special about that one eye is that it is able to filter things with a green, red or blue tinge (dependent on who England are playing).

andy - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Edradour:
> (In reply to andy)
> [...]
>
> Where does this nonsense come from?
>

Bitter experience! The Welsh are too good as individuals not to put at least one decent performance together, and if they'll do it against anyone it'll be England. France the same - they haven't become crap overnight.

Horse on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Edradour:

You can be sure Ireland will turn up this weekend. Their forwards surely won't be as laughably useless as last year. It should be a good contest(assuming the ref keeps eye on the cheating feckers in the green) but I suspect home advantage to tell, Ireland by 3 to 5.



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Shani - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Edradour)
>
> You can be sure Ireland will turn up this weekend. Their forwards surely won't be as laughably useless as last year. It should be a good contest(assuming the ref keeps eye on the cheating feckers in the green) but I suspect home advantage to tell, Ireland by 3 to 5.

If there is one team Ireland can suck-it-up against, it is England. Not sure whether Ireland are ever happy with the 'favourites' tag, but as they are at home, you have to consider them as such.

I reckon they'll choke more than Croke.
balmybaldwin - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Ireland did not play well on Saturday, Wales were just shocking in the first half, and OK in the second half, when Ireland seemed to go missing after the first ten minutes and on that form England will get the better of Ireland this weekend.
Horse on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Bit of a reshuffle in the IRB rankings.

http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html

Wales continue the inexorable slide to joining Scotland outside the Top 10.
Shani - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>
> Bit of a reshuffle in the IRB rankings.
>
> http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html
>
> Wales continue the inexorable slide to joining Scotland outside the Top 10.

Wales and Scotland forming a nice little Tonga sandwhich there.
Darren Jackson - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Ireland to get rolled by the chariot on home turf. BOD resigns immediately out of sheer shame.
Al Evans on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Kipper:
> (In reply to Al Evans)
> [...]
>
> But looks like they're going to pull off a jammy win. Wales should have turned up in the first half.

You misquoted me, seriously misquoted, I never said Ireland were crap, just crap at lineouts, its Wales that were crap.
Horse on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Al Evans:

I thought the line out thing a bit harsh at the time and as you mention it again I checked the stats. Ireland won 9 and lost 2, not that bad although the stats don't say anything of the quality of the ball won.

The real shambolic line out this weekend was the French one (9 and 4) and I sure they only got to 9 by lobbing it to front which is crap attacking ball.
wynaptomos - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>
> Ireland did not play well on Saturday, Wales were just shocking in the first half, and OK in the second half, when Ireland seemed to go missing after the first ten minutes and on that form England will get the better of Ireland this weekend.

Come off it - they played a blinder in the first half with really good, precise rugby and their defence in the 2nd was awesome. Yes, we were poor but really picked it up in the 2nd half - there was a 10-15 minute period when I really thought the comeback was on but Ireland's defence put paid to that. Should be a great game next weekend - I think Ireland will have too much experience for England.
Frank4short - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to wynaptomos: Nice to see a non Irish voice speaking up for it. Especially considering half of the second half was played with only 14 players on the pitch.
balmybaldwin - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Frank4short:
> (In reply to wynaptomos) Nice to see a non Irish voice speaking up for it. Especially considering half of the second half was played with only 14 players on the pitch.

You mean their Discipline was poor? that's of their own doing (and in at least one case diliberate to avoid a try IIRC)

(In reply to wynaptomos)

i didn't say they were poor, just that they didn't play well. I would say they were OK, there is a lot of talent in there, but if they play like that against a proper opposition (like Wales turned into in the second half) I don't think they will win even with the Home support

ERH - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Italy for the Grand Slam anyone?
ERH - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Italy now ranked above Wales and Scotland. If that were true then they're going to have a fantastic six nations. They were amazing in 2011, where they could have seen them beating Ireland or Wales, and did a fantastic job on France. They beat Scotland last year, they've started with a bang now too. I am going to go all hopeful and say Italy come 3rd this year, though 4th is more likely. good luck to them!
Cú Chullain - on 04 Feb 2013
Bookies calling it exactly flat at the minute. Personally, I think Ireland will crush England by 2 or 3 points.



nickyrannoch on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to ERH:

Scotland will beat Italy handsomely next week mark my words !! I very rarely get positive about Scotland but in Hogg and Maitalnd we now have two natural finishers. We are a long way off being good but we might be on the march to one day retaining our former glories of being OK.
Horse on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:

But they have to have something to finish. Truth be told Scotland created nothing and never looked like they would.
nickyrannoch on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

In what way did scotland not create their first try?

If we accept the premise Scotland created nothing against England ( I don't) then i'm not overly concerned when we play worse teams than that which we faced on Saturday.

our problem over the past ten years has not been an inability to create chances but a simply woeful conversion of red zone possession into points. Against Italy, as well as they played, we will create chances. That being said I still have concerns over the amount of missed tackles going on.

On a side note I thought I would try and get tickets for Saturday after watching the weekend's games. £30 quid for the cheap seats in what is a half empty stadium? The SRU can stick it. If they must capitalise on the demand for tickets for the other 4 nations with their exorbitant prices then so be it but you used to get good deals on the Italy games.

Horse on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:

The first originated from a desperately poor kick and tackling by England. The second came when England coughed up the ball to a huge overlap (which Denton did his best to butcher). To be fair Scotland didn't mess about accepting the gifts on offer. Other than that I can't recall Scotland doing much. Wins against the top sides come by creating opportunities not relying on opposition cock ups.

As to £30 that looks an absolute bargain compared to Twickenham.
nickyrannoch on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

i dont diagree with that but if you discount episodes of missed tackles then you could argue no-one creates chances against Scotland!! I would say from where Hogg fielded the ball for the first try you have to credit Scotland with creating and executing their own chance but we can agree to disagree.

Italy are not a top side and i think we will create against them. It has come to something when I basically accept that the success or otherwise of a campaign depends on beating Italy but we are where we are.

Re: Tickets - I accept that for the other 4 nations people budget for the game and have it in the diary months in advance and if they can get 50-70 quid a ticket then fine.

For the Italy game they should be looking to attract the casual punter and 70 quid for the lower tier of the west stand or 30 quid for a corner seat in the gods aint gonna do that. The one good thing is about murrayfield is when its only at 60-70% capacity its really easy to pay for a cheap seat and then just go and sit where you want once in the stadium.
Horse on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:

I'll credit Hogg with seeing half West London unpopulated with white clutter and getting on with it. It was hardly individual brilliance though, his only other option being to hoof it into touch.

You're correct on the last point and it should be a good game.
coinneach - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Murrayfield lost any of my money last season by having a shit rugby team.

I've taken my lad up for at least one 6 nations ( and an Autumn International ) since he was about 6.

But a 200 mile round trip plus programmes, the shirt, the burgers,the ref link and a fiver for a pint of flat Guinness to watch a bunch of big jessies get humped was not VFM.

It also boils my pish when we have a fly past, a lone piper, flame throwers
and a load of fireworks to welcome a team who are about to ship 50 points against The All Blacks.

That said.............................if we beat Italy on Saturday......

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sargy - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:

The last couple of years I've just turned up a few minutes after kickoff and have been let in for free! (games against Ireland and Italy)
Horse on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Especially when you can watch it in comfort, for free, from behind the sofa :-)

coinneach - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to sargy:
> (In reply to nickyrannoch)
>
> The last couple of years I've just turned up a few minutes after kickoff and have been let in for free! (games against Ireland and Italy)


Aye but if you try to get out at half time they charge you a tenner!

Dr.S at work - on 04 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:
> Looks like a Ireland v England Grand Slam decider then this weekend!
>
> Lets do head to head line up of the two sides:
>
> .......
> Overall Ireland 15 Pigdogs 0
>
> Ireland favourites for the grandslam.

Hmmm, persuasive - I guess that with the state of the Irish economy you will accept some charity, what odds will you give me on an England win?
Al Evans on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Dr.S at work: Incidently, did anybody notice that England beat Scotland 76-0 in the womens six nations :-)
Shani - on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to Dr.S at work) Incidently, did anybody notice that England beat Scotland 76-0 in the womens six nations :-)

I suspect you could have fielded England's female team against the Scottish male team and still come away with the Calcutta cup!
Horse on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani

From elsewhere in cyberspace:

"- the face on Maitland at about 60mins in when he realised he really did have to play with this shower for the next ten years...."

Probably wishes he stayed at the Crusaders.
Shani - on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Shani
>
> From elsewhere in cyberspace)
>
> "- the face on Maitland at about 60mins in when he realised he really did have to play with this shower for the next ten years...."
>
> Probably wishes he stayed at the Crusaders.

Harsh - but fair! I guess as a Kiwi you grow up with certain ambitions.....
Dr.S at work - on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:
In fairness I though Scotland performed fairly well, will be interesting to see how they front up to Italy.

really looking forward to all of next weeks games - should be a cracking set of matches.
Shani - on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Dr.S at work:
> (In reply to Shani)
> In fairness I though Scotland performed fairly well, will be interesting to see how they front up to Italy.
>
> really looking forward to all of next weeks games - should be a cracking set of matches.

They had one or two moments but not sure I saw much to get excited about. If Italy can maintain this competitive spirit then their clash with Scotland could be awesome. Scotland will be expecting a WSD so they have everything to play for.

Ireland vs England is very intriguing. Ireland at home with a wealth of caps. They've got to fancy their chances but will also be alarmed at the weakness Wales found in the green line in the second half. England are playing fearless rugby and growing all the time, but a win against the Irish is not going to be easy. Personally I reckon Kidney will be shitting the return of Rutland's finest. Would a draw be out of the question? This may well be a 6N decider...but there are banana skins a plenty between now and March.

Wales vs France is also intriguing. Not sure which France is going to turn up, nor which Wales. Should be monumental as both seek to salvage their reputations.

Shaping up for a vintage Six Nations!
Cú Chullain - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Frank4short)
>
> Good try from Wales, they need to keep running at Earls he is out of his depth as a defensive centre.

I agree with this, his natural position is wing, and for Munster at least he is pretty handy when playing there. He is even on record as saying he does not want to play centre but Kidney keeps picking him there.
Cú Chullain - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

England will not get as much space to work with as they did against Scotland, still think Ireland will sneak home by two 3 - 4 points, they will be well up for this after the spanking they got at Twickenham last season. Its unlikely D'Arcy will be fit which means Earls will be back, that is Irelands main weakness.
Horse on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

The two biggest things that favour the Irish are home advantage and the collective nous as to just how much cheating they can get away with at the breakdown before the cards come out. The latter can backfire, I can't see England letting Ireland have a 20 odd point lead before they start to play and Farrell will exact punitive sanction for any skullduggery on the floor.
drunken monkey - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Ireland cheating at the breakdown? Surely thats Englands Forte? All good sides do it - And get away with it.

Scotland are pish at it - And dont get away with it. One of our problems. We are too "nice" at the breakdown.
Shani - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> England will not get as much space to work with as they did against Scotland, still think Ireland will sneak home by two 3 - 4 points, they will be well up for this after the spanking they got at Twickenham last season. Its unlikely D'Arcy will be fit which means Earls will be back, that is Irelands main weakness.

Looking forwards to the battle between Sexton and Farrell, but it is up front where the game will be won or lost. I think you are right, that it will be close, and I still hold out that we could see a draw. But, Ireland went walkabout in the second half last week - and if they do that again they'll be brutally punished!

@Horse - who is the ref?
Horse on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to drunken monkey:
> (In reply to Horse) Ireland cheating at the breakdown? Surely thats Englands Forte? All good sides do it - And get away with it.

>
Of course all side do it. My point was that Ireland are particularly efficient at it and good at judging what they might get away with. I'm not sure the current England is anywhere near as street wise.

Cú Chullain - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to drunken monkey)
> [...]
>
> [...]
> Of course all side do it. My point was that Ireland are particularly efficient at it and good at judging what they might get away with. I'm not sure the current England is anywhere near as street wise.

You play the referee, Roman Pointe is well know for being useless when comes to controlling the breakdown, both sets of forwards were lying all over the ball last Saturday. Best's yellow card was a joke as well as he had clearly come 'through' the gate rather then the side.
Cú Chullain - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
> [...]
>
> Looking forwards to the battle between Sexton and Farrell, but it is up front where the game will be won or lost. I think you are right, that it will be close, and I still hold out that we could see a draw. But, Ireland went walkabout in the second half last week - and if they do that again they'll be brutally punished!

Pfffffff.

Farrell is getting some massive hype in the UK gutter press because he made most of his kicks and threw some loopy passes in front of a Sweaty team who are rated 12th in the world. I expect him to implode in a tearful sh*t heap come judgement day in Dublin. To go down in history with Geoff Thomas, Jimmy Saville and Jeffrey Archer as a lad who had it all and f*cked it up.

Ireland to crush England by 3

Shani - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:
> (In reply to Shani)
> [...]
>
> Pfffffff.
>
> Farrell is getting some massive hype in the UK gutter press because he made most of his kicks and threw some loopy passes in front of a Sweaty team who are rated 12th in the world. I expect him to implode in a tearful sh*t heap come judgement day in Dublin. To go down in history with Geoff Thomas, Jimmy Saville and Jeffrey Archer as a lad who had it all and f*cked it up.
>
> Ireland to crush England by 3

I disagree with you but I like the cut of your jib!
Horse on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

He didn't look too shabby a few weeks ago against those blokes in Black either.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Shani - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
>
> He didn't look too shabby a few weeks ago against those blokes in Black either.

Yeah, not bad for a guy who was barely 21.
Dr.S at work - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:
all this talk, but you have failed to take up my free cash offer......
Cú Chullain - on 08 Feb 2013
England team names:

Marler
Youngs
Cole
Launchbury
Parling
Haskell
Robshaw
Wood

Youngs
Farrell
Brown
Twelvetrees
Barritt
Ashton
Goode

Subs:
Hartley
Wilson
Vunipola
Lawes
Waldrom
Care
Flood
Tuilagi

http://www.rfu.com/rbssixnations

Handy enough bench in fainess!

I think if Hartley, Lawes and Tuilagi come on at 60 mins or so I think the concentrated hate might actually make the Irish supporters implode.
Cú Chullain - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Dr.S at work:

Not really free cash though is it....

Bookies have both teams as absolutel evens. But I reckon Ireland by 4 - 5 points.
Shani - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

Our bench looks awesome. Flood, Hartley, Care and Tuilagi will be itching for some action.

The more I look at this match the harder it gets to predict. A 'refresh' of England early in the second half could prove a killer blow....
Cú Chullain - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Kind of hoping that Ireland's vastly more experienced team can make the difference, the Irish bench is not as good as Englands so they need to start the first half like they did against Wales.
Darren Jackson - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:
>
>
> Kind of hoping ...

Nuff said.
Shani - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Kind of hoping that Ireland's vastly more experienced team can make the difference, the Irish bench is not as good as Englands so they need to start the first half like they did against Wales.

That is just it; you've got experience against strength in depth. England played against a weak(ish) Scottish team, and with a degree of intensity for the full 80. Ireland are a much stronger proposition but only seemed to sustain it for 50 minutes or so.
andy - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
> [...]
>
> That is just it; you've got experience against strength in depth. England played against a weak(ish) Scottish team, and with a degree of intensity for the full 80. Ireland are a much stronger proposition but only seemed to sustain it for 50 minutes or so.

I think Ireland may learn their lesson from the Welsh game - combine that with the fact they'll probably lift their game because it's England, and they're at home then I reluctantly reckon that England will get pipped by 5-7 points.
Cú Chullain - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
> [...]
>
> Nuff said.

Sickening arrogance
Darren Jackson - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:
>
> Sickening arrogance

Calm down. Merely banter.

Cú Chullain - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to Shani)
> [...]
>
> I think Ireland may learn their lesson from the Welsh game - combine that with the fact they'll probably lift their game because it's England, and they're at home then I reluctantly reckon that England will get pipped by 5-7 points.

Thats the spirit!!
Cú Chullain - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
> [...]
>
> Calm down. Merely banter.

Sickening disrespect to Michael Winner
Darren Jackson - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

;-)
Horse on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

Looks like the weather forecast will not favour sides wanting to play rugby so add that advantage to home fixture and cheating ability, still looks like Ireland by 3 to 5.

I reserve my right to change my mind if England weather the initial storm and Irish pack turn to jelly after 20 minutes.




balmybaldwin - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

My Predictions:

France V wales - close match, France by 5 points, Wales chasing the game in their usual style, piling on the points in the last 20, but falling just short again

Scotland V Italy - If Italy play as well as last week, I think they'll have the match by about 10 points. I think the play will be evenly balanced, but Italy will get the points where it counts

Ireland V England - England by 10 points, the strength and depth of the team will overwelm the ageing Irish team
Shani - on 08 Feb 2013
Three (Irish) folk have now offered me tickets to the game but:

1) Flying there and back on Sunday will cost around £300 (similar if I return on Monday morning or fly over on Saturday). Chuck in car to the airport and parking (or train consts), plus taxi/bus at the other end and beers, then add in the ticket price, and I won't get much change out of £500!

2) Ferry travel involves a 3-4 hour drive to Holyhead, 2 hours ferry journey, then a 4 hour return ferry journey and another 4 hour drive home at midnight - with snow predicted. So 14 hours of travel for a game.

If England win, it *might* be worth it. But that is a hell of a lot of money/time to piss away if we lose.

I might just watch it from home.
Horse on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Send Sloper instead, he's loaded.
Shani - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Send Sloper instead, he's loaded.

He is one of the three! Not sure if being stuck in a car for three hours each way with him sing 'Fields of Athenry' makes for a good car journey. Factor in the chance of snow....
Horse on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Definitely take the TV option.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Cú Chullain - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:
> Three (Irish) folk have now offered me tickets to the game but:
>
> 1) Flying there and back on Sunday will cost around £300 (similar if I return on Monday morning or fly over on Saturday). Chuck in car to the airport and parking (or train consts), plus taxi/bus at the other end and beers, then add in the ticket price, and I won't get much change out of £500!
>
> 2) Ferry travel involves a 3-4 hour drive to Holyhead, 2 hours ferry journey, then a 4 hour return ferry journey and another 4 hour drive home at midnight - with snow predicted. So 14 hours of travel for a game.
>
> If England win, it *might* be worth it. But that is a hell of a lot of money/time to piss away if we lose.
>
> I might just watch it from home.

Sunday games suck.

I was offered a corporate ticket but turned it down as that, plus flights would make it an eyewateringly expensive weekend.

Still, I am off to Rome in March for the Italy v Ireland game, that will be my 6 Nations treat, hopefully get to see Ireland crowned Gland Slam winners.

Darren Jackson - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

The TV option may be risky if they happen to catch him in shot as they pan around the crowd. Best listen to it on the radio.
Shani - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:
> (In reply to Shani)
> [...]
>
> Sunday games suck.
>
> I was offered a corporate ticket but turned it down as that, plus flights would make it an eyewateringly expensive weekend.
>
> Still, I am off to Rome in March for the Italy v Ireland game, that will be my 6 Nations treat, hopefully get to see Ireland crowned Gland Slam winners.

Sounds like a good day out!

As for this weekend's gig, the snow risk is now preying on my mind. I could be snow bound in Manchester airport watching the match on the lounge TV with a drunken Sloper.....

Cú Chullain - on 08 Feb 2013
Irish side named:

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster/42)
14 - Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster/2)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster/121)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster/72)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster/4)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster/35)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster/15)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster/36)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster/63)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster/25)
4 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht/7)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster/24)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster/10)
7 - Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster/23)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster/53) Captain

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/23)
17 - David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster/3)
18 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster/3)
19 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster/91)
20 - Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster/5)
21 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster/48)
22 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster/126)
23 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster/35)


Unchanged from last week.
balmybaldwin - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

what's the number in the Brackets? number of Caps?

nickyrannoch on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

Having seen that team has brought on a Harumph!! in me.

The IRB need to limit the number of subs and substitutions in the modern game, the replacement of entire front rows and half back partnerships during a game these days is a farce.

How I long for the days of the french using their own brown adididas balls, referees wearing their own international jerseys, kicking from a hole in the ground and scotland winning championship games.
Cú Chullain - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Yep, caps
balmybaldwin - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:
They certainly have some experience in there then.... I wonder if the english total caps is less than BOD's
Horse on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

532 versus 242, fine line between experience and knackered has been :-)
Cú Chullain - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Englands world cup winning team had about 800 caps between them!

Actually the cap count for Ireland is a bit decieving given that O'Gara, BOD and DOC hold almost half the Irish caps just between themselves!
Shani - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Can I put a reservation on being the first to make a humourous pun based on the words 'Horse' and 'Lasagne' for when we play Italy in the 6N?
Horse on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Of course.

Cheers,
Findus
Horse on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

And the use by date was up on most of them by the time of the final.

I only counted the caps of those in the starting line up, not those in the retirement waiting room.
Darren Jackson - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:
>
> Actually the cap count for Ireland is a bit decieving given that O'Gara, BOD and DOC hold almost half the Irish caps just between themselves!

A fit O'Connell would swung things even further...

Cú Chullain - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
> [...]
>
> A fit O'Connell would swung things even further...

A fit O'Connell would crush England on his own, he is the Chuck Norris of rugby.

I love this clip of him giving a pre match changing room 'talk'

http://img.youtube.com/vi/Bhgt2pnSywI/default.jpg?h=90&w=120&sigh=__NnLBUW77uRaGIbQuMrW7m4f9...

In fairness we have four starting line up players with more then 50 caps, a couple of newbies on the wing but the rest of the team has a nice balance of youth and experience going for it.

Cant wait for this match, its going to be epic.



Darren Jackson - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

Aye, it'll be spicy... An England win will make me almost as happy as watching France get stuffed last weekend.
Horse on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Worth remembering:

It will be 40 years ago to the day this weekend that England captain John Pullin rose wearily to his feet in a smoked-filled room in the old Hibernian Hotel in Dublin, dodged a couple of incoming breadrolls, and uttered possibly the most memorable 13 words in rugby history: "Well we might not be any good but at least we turned up."

Willie John and the mighty Pullin fill in the details:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/ireland/9857630/Six-Nations-2013-the-day-J...
coinneach - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Johnny Beattie says Scotland are underdogs tomorrow ( makes me feel old as I played in the same side as his Dad)

So, more in hope than expectation, Scotland to win narrowly.

France will wake up and thrash Wales.

England too strong for Ireland I think.
dale1968 - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:William Hill quoting 100-1 scotland to win, even Italy get 20-1, made me laugh
nickyrannoch on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21375047

quick question. does anyone apart from eddie butler enjoy is awful cringe worthy pseudo poetic faux dramatic montages that he seems to have been asked to do for the last ten years? makes me want to puke.

anyway its off to the game i go. scotland to win by 10. then you'll see, you'll all see !!!!!
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ERH - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:

"Confidence, like a good beard, takes time"
balmybaldwin - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Wouldnt it be easier to tell the teams apart if Scotland wore their normal strip?

Early good signs for Scotland
andy - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>
> Wouldnt it be easier to tell the teams apart if Scotland wore their normal strip?
>
> Early good signs for Scotland
S'rugby - home teams change if there's a clash.

Or in England's case, if they want to make a few extra quid by selling more shirts...
balmybaldwin - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

But dark blue vs light blue is less of a clash.

6-0

but italy look dangerous at times
andy - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to andy)
>
> But dark blue vs light blue is less of a clash

Not if it's muddy it's not. But stil not sure why Scotland aren't playing in white like they usually do.

balmybaldwin - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

Solid victory for Scotland, good to see some creativity there. Italy were poor, a real shame from a neutral point of view it was pretty onesided
andy - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: yep, they looked like the old Italy - but credit Scotland they took advantage of the errors and gave Italy no chances to get back into it.

coinneach - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

Makes me wonder why Robinson could do bugger all with the same players to choose from.....?

Scotland's defence was excellent and the breakdown much improved.

Good to see some enterprising back play too!
balmybaldwin - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Heres hoping france wales will be a closer match. Really not sure who I want to win...

They both got reason to try to make big impact early on, will be interesting if France can keep the crowd behind them.
Horse on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Not a bad game for a 2nd division match.

coinneach - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

The French pack will want to give the backs a proper kicking at HT . . . They keep winning ball to see it being given back to the Welsh.
Horse on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Pretty dull stuff so far.
balmybaldwin - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:


Hmmm quite uninspiring. Lokking a bit like a wooden spoon contest
coinneach - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

It's more like a Scotland v Italy match.

Both sides more afraid of losing.
coinneach - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

I'm sure I can hear Brian Moore . . .
Horse on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

The state of the pitch is the only thing keeping me interested.
balmybaldwin - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Surprised the crowd weren't booing france earlier than this.

Try for wales 6-13
Oceanrower - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: Decent last 10 minutes for Wales at least.
Shani - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to coinneach)
>
> The state of the pitch is the only thing keeping me interested.

Not sure I've ever seen a game with so many slow motion replays of turf lifting. Not sure whether this says more about the pitch than the quality of the rugby.

Could we see France take the wooden spoon?
Horse on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:
> (In reply to Horse)
> [...]
>
> Could we see France take the wooden spoon?

It does usually go to a side who play in blue.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Kipper - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:
>
> Could we see France take the wooden spoon?

Has the 'cuillère en bois' ever gone that far South?


andy - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to Kipper:
> (In reply to Shani)
> [...]
>
> Has the 'cuillère en bois' ever gone that far South?

I'd assume it's been to Italy...
coinneach - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to Horse)
>
> Johnny Beattie says Scotland are underdogs tomorrow ( makes me feel old as I played in the same side as his Dad)
>
> So, more in hope than expectation, Scotland to win narrowly.
>
> France will wake up and thrash Wales.
>
> England too strong for Ireland I think.


HHhhmmm............wrong with two predictions so far........




Kipper - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to Kipper)
> [...]
>
> I'd assume it's been to Italy...

Good point, but they probably call it something else :-)


Shani - on 09 Feb 2013
Results so far:

1 Dafydd Llywelyn calon_lan 7 5 130
2 richard ffitch The Maulers 8 3 124
3 Reginald Trubshaw All Black Winning Streak 4 6 124
4 Jon Coutts Currywurst 4 4 118
5 Jason Kirk Nae Chance! 7 4 114
6 Mike Hale Red Hype 5 4 114
7 Ken Gunning Ireland's Call 5 4 112
8 Robert Richardson Terra Team 6 2 111
9 graham gedge The Hype 4 3 109
10 Mike Lates As Welsh as my arse 4 2 108
11 Mike Turner Turner's Tigers 5 4 106
12 Richard Smith rlrs0001 3 4 106
13 Roly Chuter Chuter's Chunters 7 1 105
14 Chris Georg Boobies 4 4 104
15 Chris Williams Fur Queue 4 3 102
16 Jeremy Hart The Hartebeasts 4 2 99
16 Graham McKay The SOBs 4 3 99
18 Stephanie Coyle Hairy Hookers 4 5 96
19 Matthew Berry Highland Fling 4 1 96
20 matt barker The Black Sheep 5 2 91
21 Mr Scoi Scoi 2 2 86
22 Zack Tennison Multiple Scoregasms 4 1 82
23 kenny macmillan Dirt Trackers 2 1 80
24 John Walker Johnny W's 15 2 1 78
25 D B DBs Last XV 4 1 77
26 Tom O'Rourke Slopers Banned Proles 1 3 74
27 Jimbo W Broughty Ferrets 1 2 69
28 Frostee Maria Frostee's 4 2 61
29 Daniel Capps X01 0 0 36
nickyrannoch on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

told yous we had finishers :-) :-)

not world beaters yet but at least we look like scoring and the gameplan isnt to shitfest it to a 3 point win.

reckon we will get another win in the championship and that can be marked as progress
Dr.S at work - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:
amazing scoreline for the number of tackles the two sides made!
Frank4short - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>
> Bit of a reshuffle in the IRB rankings.
>
> http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html
>
> Wales continue the inexorable slide to joining Scotland outside the Top 10.

How are France still ranked 5th? Or is it just a case of the new rankings don't come in until after the whole weekends events?
crustypunkuk - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
Are you just a complete Arse, or are you on the troll?
Our result against Italy today, the same Italy who beat the French, showed enterprise, showed guile, grit and determination, and plenty of skill too. We could easily have matched and bettered your mob last week if we hadn't believed the press hype beforehand that we had a chance(the single biggest Scottish failing is believing we're favourites), and the ONLY reason Italy looked so ordinary today is because we made them that way. Our gameplan worked to negate any Italian flair or gameplan they thought they could use against us.
Realistically, this may be the most open 6N ever, as i reckon Ireland will thump England, but i also think France and possibly Wales will be back with a vengeance, and the Scots have at least one more victory in them. Maybe the winner will come from tries scored?
MJ - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

How are France still ranked 5th? Or is it just a case of the new rankings don't come in until after the whole weekends events?

The rankings are recalculated every Monday.
Darren Jackson - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to MJ:

Right. So, the Slam's getting sorted early on.

Spoon?
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to crustypunkuk:
> (In reply to Horse)
>and the ONLY reason Italy looked so ordinary today is because we made them that way.

Well, the fact their fly half had a game that would probably have got him dropped from an U14 team might have helped as well...

nickyrannoch on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to crustypunkuk)
> [...]
> >and the ONLY reason Italy looked so ordinary today is because we made them that way.
>
> Well, the fact their fly half had a game that would probably have got him dropped from an U14 team might have helped as well...

our fly half is hardly barry john reincarnate. have major reservations about jackson as well as laidlaw and hoggs defensive capabilities.

however, like scotland at twickenham, the italian half backs had a torrid time due to to total dominance at the breakdown from scotand. its not like they were much better when he went off.
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to crustypunkuk:
> (In reply to Horse)
> Are you just a complete Arse,

The only one being an arse is you. The wooden spoon, in the 6 Nations has been won by Italy 9 times, Scotland 3 and Wales once. Most sensible people would conclude it is "usually" won by a team that plays in blue. Why do you think differently?

As to beating England, I think that just proves you are an arse with 2 cheeks, which nicely balances the chips on each shoulder.
crustypunkuk - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
As opposed to the standard English rugby fan's mile wide arrogance?
You sir are the epitome of why the rest of the 6 nations (possibly Italy excluded, as i don't think they care too much) love to see England being thumped.
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to crustypunkuk:

What is arrogant about a statement of fact regarding the wooden spoon?
Shani - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to crustypunkuk:
> (In reply to Horse)
> As opposed to the standard English rugby fan's mile wide arrogance?
> You sir are the epitome of why the rest of the 6 nations (possibly Italy excluded, as i don't think they care too much) love to see England being thumped.

Simply not true. I've plenty of Irish friends and family who support England as their B team.
drunken monkey - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Put your dummy back in FFS. Jesus
Frank4short - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani: It's chucking it down here and doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon. Going to be a rough match no matter what happens.
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

Is also windy?
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Douglas Griffin - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

There's a fair bit of hot air coming from Jeremy Guscott.
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

As usual, only ever outplayed by Inverdale.
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: that's it! All they've got to do is stop Ireland scoring for 78 minutes and it's in the bag...
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

Unusually intelligent play from Wigan's finest.
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: cheap shot from Healey. Nasty little fecker.
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

He should be saying "Hello Mr Citing officer"
Indy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
What the fook are France playing at?????
Darren Jackson - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Indy:

I'm happy to settle for a 0-3 thrashing.
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson: zebo and sexton off now.
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

Unfortunately I think O'Gara is probably better in these conditions.
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: i'd agree - given how many mistakes Ireland are making you'd really like to be further ahead at half time...
Shani - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to andy)
>
> He should be saying "Hello Mr Citing officer"

Healy is a nutter.
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

O'Moaner, scragged. Few better sites in world rugby.
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani: this goes over that'll be a satisfactory first half. Long way from over though!
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy: still not bad...
Darren Jackson - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

Here's hoping that they replay some of the Italy - France game, from last weekend, at the break.
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Expect Ireland to come out with Plan B and hit back hard early in the second half.

Having seen the second one again Healy might be saying "Hello Mr Citing Officer" twice.
IainFP on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy: Think Ireland could do with a bulk order of sticky mitts. Rarely seen so many spills!

They seem at a loss when they get past half a dozen phases!

Healey will miss the rest of this championship after today ;0)
Darren Jackson - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Everything looks worse in slow motion, apparently. Stamps, punches and Guscott.
IainFP on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Plan B presumably "don't feckin drop it"!
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andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to IainFP: twemty more minutes and on comes Manu...
Shani - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to IainFP:
> (In reply to andy) Think Ireland could do with a bulk order of sticky mitts. Rarely seen so many spills!
>
> They seem at a loss when they get past half a dozen phases!
>
> Healey will miss the rest of this championship after today ;0)

Ireland definitely handed England the first half, rather than England earn it.
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani: this already looks ominous...
Darren Jackson - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

Hmmmmm... The Munster machine is starting to tick.
IainFP on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy: Youngs snr going to lose his starting place!
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Old style kick and rush is Plan B, it was always going to work.
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: oh dear - yellow. That could be the game.
Darren Jackson - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Buggerment.
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson: this'd be helpful Owen...
Darren Jackson - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

The boy's giving em a good kicking.
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy: and again...
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

Bit of breathing space, lets hope the forwards stay awake
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: one more score might do it...
Darren Jackson - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Does anybody remember tries?
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson: good lad, Ronan!
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:


One flashed before Manu's eyes but he thought better of it.
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy: and well played Ashton!
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

More good stuff from Ashton on O'Moaner
IainFP on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Is this "goodnight" Ireland? The boys in green have done a lot to lose this.
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to IainFP:
> (In reply to Horse) Is this "goodnight" Ireland? The boys in green have done a lot to lose this.

Drop goal or a pen from here and it is...
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy: bollox...
Darren Jackson - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

Can't see myself watching too many replays of this game...
Darren Jackson - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

First win in a Dublin decade. We'll tek it.
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson: phew. ireland architects of their own downfall to a large extent, but England won it whilst Haskell was off.
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:


You were saying?
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

I'm not sure that is entirely fair. An inexperienced England side played smarter rugby on the day in conditions that favoured a hugely experienced Ireland team.
andy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to andy)
>
> I'm not sure that is entirely fair. An inexperienced England side played smarter rugby on the day in conditions that favoured a hugely experienced Ireland team.

Oh, I agree - "make less mistakes" was the mantra - but Ireland could argue some of their experienced guys made some uncharacteristic balls ups.

Darren Jackson - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Farrell being interviewed. Nice to hear a proper accent.
IainFP on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Your lot rarely looked like conceding a try. Played the better game, defence solid, took their opportunities.
thin bob on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
"Magnificently rubbish" Nicely put, Keith Woods. Horrible weather. Grinding away, glad England didn't get silly & concede penalties. Hope all the injured fix soon.
Quite a bizarre result considering territory figures...no-one seemed to get awfully close to the tryline (Tualangi's chance would've been pretty great, though :-) ).
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

They can argue whatever they like, scoreboard says 6-12 end off.
Rampikino - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

You think the person who compared the two squads man-for-man and had Ireland as being better 14 out of 15 is unbiased enough to do any retracting? Come on! ;)
Shani - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Not a classic, but the weather conspired against things. Very intense at times. Too many errors on Ireland's behalf, but solid defending all round.

Unforgiveable to concede 6 points whilst a man up.
Rampikino - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

I thought it was only 3 but the other 3 came just after?

All the same, you would hope to get a net gain.

2 tough, tough teams, but the Championship is far from over...

Unless you're French!
thin bob on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to andy) and well played Ashton!

yes, some pretty incisive tackles etc.
thin bob on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
George North: try of the tournament so far? maybe it was the time it was scored, maybe the doubt over his feet, or just the angle? Lovely to see..though Scotland winning the 100 metres race twice was fantastic!
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to thin bob:

No, I'd go with one of the Italian tries from last week.
Shani - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to thin bob:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
> George North: try of the tournament so far? maybe it was the time it was scored, maybe the doubt over his feet, or just the angle? Lovely to see..though Scotland winning the 100 metres race twice was fantastic!

Hogg's try was very good.
thin bob on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
Gotta love The Red Button..England Ireland lowest scoring match in 6N, Scotland second in table :-)
Rampikino - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to thin bob:

Interesting that a draw today and no team would have had 2 from 2 after just 2 weeks.
ads.ukclimbing.com
thin bob on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to thin bob)
>
> No, I'd go with one of the Italian tries from last week.

Nice tries, enhanced by novelty value :-) But yes, good all the same.
Shani - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to thin bob:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
> Gotta love The Red Button..England Ireland lowest scoring match in 6N, Scotland second in table :-)

And France last!!!!!!!
Alan Taylor - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani: Worth a bet on them to beat the Hype
Rampikino - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

And should stay last after next match - Twickenham
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Alan Taylor:

With your money? Yes.
Darren Jackson - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

A French one and an owly one:

http://tinyurl.com/crh6fqk
Dr.S at work - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Rampikino:
I thought he might have taken my bet on.....
Kipper - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to coinneach)
> [...]
>
>
> HHhhmmm............wrong with two predictions so far........

Only just; but understood mostly who the better teams on the day would be.

And I got some cash on Wales at 4/1. Not a bad weekend.


Shani - on 10 Feb 2013
And now to the REAL table that matters. ESPN is currently updating the Fantasy Six Nations scorings.....
Shani - on 10 Feb 2013
1 richard ffitch The Maulers 8 3 149
2 Dafydd Llywelyn calon_lan 7 5 149
3 Reginald Trubshaw All Black Winning Streak 4 6 149
4 Jon Coutts Currywurst 4 4 140
5 Robert Richardson Terra Team 6 2 135
6 Roly Chuter Chuter's Chunters 7 1 134
7 Ken Gunning Ireland's Call 5 4 132
8 graham gedge The Hype 4 3 132
9 Mike Turner Turner's Tigers 5 4 131
10 Chris Georg Boobies 4 4 130
11 Mike Hale Red Hype 5 4 128
12 Jason Kirk Nae Chance! 7 4 127
13 Graham McKay The SOBs 4 3 126
14 Chris Williams Fur Queue 4 3 123
15 Richard Smith rlrs0001 3 4 122
16 Stephanie Coyle Hairy Hookers 4 5 121
17 Jeremy Hart The Hartebeasts 4 2 120
18 Matthew Berry Highland Fling 4 1 116
19 Mike Lates As Welsh as my arse 4 2 115
20 Mr Scoi Scoi 2 2 114
21 matt barker The Black Sheep 5 2 109
22 kenny macmillan Dirt Trackers 2 1 98
23 D B DBs Last XV 4 1 97
24 Zack Tennison Multiple Scoregasms 4 1 96
25 Jimbo W Broughty Ferrets 1 2 93
26 John Walker Johnny W's 15 2 1 88
27 Tom O'Rourke Slopers Banned Proles 1 3 88
28 Frostee Maria Frostee's 4 2 67
29 Daniel Capps X01 0 0 54
Darren Jackson - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Sloper's languishing in his usual sort of spot, I notice.
Shani - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Sloper's languishing in his usual sort of spot, I notice.

I suspect he was hoping to break in to the top 25 after this afternoon...
Horse on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Talking of Sloper, surprisingly he has not sent me a text congratulating England on their victory today.
ERH - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Ooh, still up there Daf!
Darren Jackson - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

I expect that he'll probably get around to it soon. Probably busy baking humble pie.
coinneach - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Or chips
Reginald Trubshaw - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Very tight this year (except for Sloper).

Cú Chullain - on 11 Feb 2013
Congratulations England. It wasn't the best game, and Ireland lost any chance they might have had when ROG came on, but there can't be any excuses. England deserved the win and it looks like we're their bogey team no more.

Horse on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

Healey cited

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21417568


Doesn't wear a black shirt so will probably get more than a week ban.
coinneach - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

No Healy, no Zebo and possibly no Sexton either at Murrayfield.


Could be interesting.
ads.ukclimbing.com
MJ - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Doesn't wear a black shirt so will probably get more than a week ban.

...and being part of a tournament, he won't have the luxury of appearing in front of a panel of his own countries rugby board.
Slugain Howff - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to Horse)
>
> No Healy, no Zebo and possibly no Sexton either at Murrayfield.
>
>
> Could be interesting.

That thought hadn't escaped me!!

S

Horse on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

And the added bonus of O'Moaner kicking to the Scottish back three, they seem rather adept at accepting any gifts on offer quickly, very quickly.
Horse on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to MJ:

Perhaps he fancies a skiing holiday for a couple of weeks.
In reply to Horse:Who is O'Moaner?
Slugain Howff - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to coinneach)
>
> And the added bonus of O'Moaner kicking to the Scottish back three, they seem rather adept at accepting any gifts on offer quickly, very quickly.

Just for a second I took this as a compliment - what was I thinking??

coinneach - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

He's lost it..................................time he was chopped up and put in a burger


Horse on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

History shows that me praising Scotland usually has a rather disastrous effect on the teams performance, so I like to it to the minimum :-o

O'Moaner = RonO'Gara
In reply to Horse: Cheers
Horse on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

I was thinking of changing my name Findus.
thin bob on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to Horse)
>
> No Healy, no Zebo and possibly no Sexton either at Murrayfield.
>
>

Never nice to see injuries, no matter who they play for. (balls and a ban for Healy, though. nasty incident).

Dunno what ROG was up to on Sunday..didn't quite seem all there. i was concerned when he came on, but I needn't have worried
Horse on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to thin bob:

Indeed, I thought it might be game over. Luckily he was in "lets feck the Lions tour" rather than Munster mood.

Champagne moment of the day was Courtney Lawes exocet tackle on Kearney, mind you I bet he (CL) had a sore head this morning.
coinneach - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to thin bob:

Didn't say it was nice

Just said it was interesting
Shani - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to thin bob)
>
> Indeed, I thought it might be game over. Luckily he was in "lets feck the Lions tour" rather than Munster mood.
>
> Champagne moment of the day was Courtney Lawes exocet tackle on Kearney, mind you I bet he (CL) had a sore head this morning.

That tackle by Lawes was pivotal. He literally put his neck on the line. I did suspect he was running the click down rather than injured as we were down to 14 at that point.

It doesn't seem that long ago since it was England fumbling the ball in Dublin and getting pinged left, right and center - and succumbing to dumb acts of aggression. Lancaster and Faz have done a good job thus far. But still a way to go.
Horse on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Watch it again Lawes wasn't faking, he got knee to head and was out for the count. The close second was Kearney near his own line stretching to get is hand in touch before the ball was ripped off him.

Rimmer and Faz see each win as another building block and keep everything very level headed. They know 3 wins on the bounce is nothing compared to the 19 or 20 New Zealand strung together and they mean nowt if at the end of the season there is nothing to put in the trophy cupboard (Triple Crowns don't really count).

coinneach - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Yeah, he went down like a sack of tatties.............
coinneach - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

My champagne moment was Richie Gray chucking the Italian half back into the stand!
Horse on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

And in other shock news, Scotland make the IRB Top 10. No often we get to say that :-)

http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html
Shani - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to Horse)
>
> Yeah, he went down like a sack of tatties.............

He defo took a big hit, and I'd say it stunned him, but he didn't seem to go 'flat'/floppy (something you see in UFC), which just got me thinking if he was milking it a bit.

One of the highlights for me was seeing Tuilagi used some guy as hand luggage. Not seen that since I think it was Henson picked up Strettle.
thin bob on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to thin bob)
>
> Didn't say it was nice
>
> Just said it was interesting

Sorry, my comment sounded like a criticism..it wasn't, honest! just a follow-on :-)

MJ - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

France are starting to make changes for the England game: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21416274

Wonder if they'll keep Michalak in the team: -

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/02/10/uk-rugby-nations-france-idUKBRE9190AI20130210
Horse on 12 Feb 2013
MJ - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Wales don't recall Warburton

Still plenty of time for Tipuric to get "injured"...
Horse on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to MJ:

The dirty little sh*te Healy gets some time off:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/ireland/9868496/Six-Nations-2013-Irelands-...

Pity he didn't get another 3 for the punch a few minutes later.
Jason Kirk on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Aye cheating wee Irish git! He was lucky he didn't do some serious damage to Cole.
IainFP on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:Makes you wonder what exactly a "serious"offence is if stamping with that much effort is only "medium"!!! Wonder if they will only cite for one offence as the punch when joining the ruck 10mins later
was potentially just as bad!
Horse on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to IainFP:

I think Cole was causing the Irish pack lots of legitimate problems and The thug Healy thought he would sort him out while he was laying on the deck. Hopefully, it should also mean he won't be having a summer holiday in the Southern Hemisphere.
Alan Taylor - on 13 Feb 2013
Jason Kirk on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to Alan Taylor: All three pundits agreed he was going to get a ban and a ban he got! What a brain dead fecking muppet!
Shani - on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to Alan Taylor:
> (In reply to Horse) Did you see this?
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21435761

I don't really know WTF Wood is on about. All that crap about 'if Healy was going backwards'.

Healy comes in with his head up, totally aware of an English leg in front of him (and probably knowing WHOSE foot it was), raises his thigh ABOVE parallel to the ground (in a attempting-to-stamp style), and then stamps STRAIGHT down on to the ankle.

If such violence was seen on a football pitch there'd be a national outcry. Whatever the physical contact that is part and parcel of rugby, that was disgraceful.
nickyrannoch on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

thats a leg breaker right there. i would go as far as saying i would have no problem with a sine die ban from internationals for that. i like a bit of good old fashioned rucking and had no complaints when i was on the end of it but hes lucky hes on a rugby field or he would be in the dock for that.
Dr.S at work - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:
Hmmm, it was bad, but not that bad. Its rugby, can we all man up a bit and stop frothing?

nickyrannoch on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Dr.S at work:

Man up?? Have you played the game?

Big hits, rucking some cheeky bugger on the ground or even a few blows traded by willing participants is all part of the game.

Nothing manly about an unprovoked stamp on a defenceless player on the ground.
Dr.S at work - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:
24 years, mostly in the front row.

I'm not saying its not bad, dangerous and stupid - it is, but I'm not sure its that unusual even nowadays, and certainly not at club level - its been punished reasonably, no body actually got badly hurt - lets move on.

The rucking thing is interesting - you can certainly cause significant injury, and you can be pretty damn deliberate about doing it but its somehow ok? I've seen players in a similar position to Cole coming out of the bottom opf rucks and malls in a pretty sorry state after legitimate rucking.

And a few blows traded by willing participants? yeah, part of the game - but then so are blows traded out to unwilling participants, stamps to the head, gouging, collapsing mauls, arm free tackles, taking folk out off the ball, in the air, and most dangerous of all, touch rugby.



balmybaldwin - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Dr.S at work:

I see what you are getting at, and agreed, similar injuries to the one attempted here are fairly common, and a part of rugby. The difference with this is it is a clear attempt to deliberately injure a player with the offending player well aware of what they were doing - this is quite different from agressively encouraging someone on the wrong side to move out of the way with a friendly tap of the boot or accidentally stamping as the offending player has his head buried in the Ruck and can't see.

To me, this is an attempt to cheat by removing an opposition player from the field either through injury or by drawing a reaction (which he failed at)
Shani - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Dr.S at work:
> (In reply to nickyrannoch)
> 24 years, mostly in the front row.


Women's Rugby clearly isn't as aggressive as the men's game.
Horse on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Would you believe it, he might legitimately turn out for Leinster this weekend:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/ireland/9870162/Six-Nations-2013-suspended...

What a mess.
Cú Chullain - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to IainFP)
>
> I think Cole was causing the Irish pack lots of legitimate problems and The thug Healy thought he would sort him out while he was laying on the deck. Hopefully, it should also mean he won't be having a summer holiday in the Southern Hemisphere.

I actually thought that the Irish forwards on average had parity with England, even in the scrum, both sides were shoved off their own ball and conceeded penalties. Compared to the mess at Twickenham last year I was pleased.

Englands kick and chase game was much more effective then Irelands and ROG coming on made sure that the Irish back line did not move at all despite the effectiveness of Englands rush defence.
Cú Chullain - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:
> (In reply to Dr.S at work)
>
> Man up?? Have you played the game?
>
> Big hits, rucking some cheeky bugger on the ground or even a few blows traded by willing participants is all part of the game.
>
> Nothing manly about an unprovoked stamp on a defenceless player on the ground.

I agree, it still goes on though, even at the crap level that I play at, its mostly what I call the 'old guard' who are guilty, the blokes who are not far from hanging up their boots. The only time I got sent off was when some f*cker tried to go for my eyes at the base of a ruck and I went postal on him, could not give a toss about the card, that bloke was going to have the manners put on him.

On another note, I think the game should allow proper rucking again.
MJ - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Dr.S at work:

The rucking thing is interesting - you can certainly cause significant injury, and you can be pretty damn deliberate about doing it but its somehow ok? I've seen players in a similar position to Cole coming out of the bottom opf rucks and malls in a pretty sorry state after legitimate rucking.

Brian Moores view on this: -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/6927871/Brian-Moore-when-and-why-did-old-fashioned-rucki...

As he seems to hint at, if 'old fashioned' rucking was still used, would players still be tempted to stay on the wrong side of a ruck and in not doing so speed up the clear out and hence the game in general?
ads.ukclimbing.com
Jason Kirk on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: apparently this has now been stopped as the disciplinary committee must have gotten on the phone as Declan Kidney has now come out and said he can't play this weekend.
Horse on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:
> (In reply to Horse)
> [...]
>
> I actually thought that the Irish forwards on average had parity with England, even in the scrum, both sides were shoved off their own ball and conceeded penalties. Compared to the mess at Twickenham last year I was pleased.
>
Over the whole game I would broadly agree. Healy's brain went AWOL quite early on and Cole had caused him difficulties so you can't help but think he might have been trying to "even" things up.

And lets be clear, he was banned for stamping not rucking.
MJ - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

And lets be clear, he was banned for stamping not rucking.

Totally agree and he would have still have been pinged under the old rucking laws. However, does the modern game 'encourage' players to stay on the wrong side of the ruck and slow down that part of the game?
I know the referee often shouts out "Colour No X, get away", but by then the defence is reorganised.
Cú Chullain - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
> [...]
> Over the whole game I would broadly agree. Healy's brain went AWOL quite early on and Cole had caused him difficulties so you can't help but think he might have been trying to "even" things up.
>
> And lets be clear, he was banned for stamping not rucking.

Actually, my last comment was not in reference to O'Stampy's efforts, just the game in general. Rucking used to in part prevent some of the more cynical attempts to lie over ball to prevent quick release. Even the refs back in the old days would tell a player who moaned about getting raked that he should not have been there in the first place.
Dr.S at work - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:
Ha! probably not, although my wife (used to play in the north wales front row) doe snot report it to be totaly clean....

Dr.S at work - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to Dr.S at work)
>
> I see what you are getting at, and agreed, similar injuries to the one attempted here are fairly common, and a part of rugby. The difference with this is it is a clear attempt to deliberately injure a player with the offending player well aware of what they were doing - this is quite different from agressively encouraging someone on the wrong side to move out of the way with a friendly tap of the boot or accidentally stamping as the offending player has his head buried in the Ruck and can't see.
>
> To me, this is an attempt to cheat by removing an opposition player from the field either through injury or by drawing a reaction (which he failed at)

certainly an attempt to cheat - but again, thats very much part of the game (the hand of Back anyone?).

Intention to injure is really interesting again - pretty much every time I put in a tackle, or hit a scrum/ruck I'm trying to hurt my opposite number. Is that ok?
Dr.S at work - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to MJ:
and as Moore says, Healey's stamp would have been illegal under the old laws - what was intersting was the likes of Woods seeming to say that if Healey had been going forward and 'rucking' backward then it would have been 'ok'. However I'm pretty sure that a player of Healeys character could place his feet backwards in a pretty deliberate fashion.

Perhaps its pretty hard for some of the old Pro's to be harsh on stuff that would have been fairly standard practice in the past?
Postmanpat on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Dr.S at work:
> (In reply to MJ)
>
> Perhaps its pretty hard for some of the old Pro's to be harsh on stuff that would have been fairly standard practice in the past?

In his playing days Moore used to work out in the gym I used. His back on a Monday generally looked like he'd either been run over by a tractor or indulging in some seriously weird sex.

MJ - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Postmanpat:

In his playing days Moore used to work out in the gym I used. His back on a Monday generally looked like he'd either been run over by a tractor or indulging in some seriously weird sex.

...or being Brian Moore, a combination of the two.

coinneach - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to MJ:

Getting back to my earlier, interesting comment.................Healy's banning, of course, is negated by Scotland's first choice tight head not playing on the Sunday anyway for religious reasons.

Even though he had the best game I can remember playing for us last week I wouldn't have him in the squad.
Kipper - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
>
> Even though he had the best game I can remember playing for us last week I wouldn't have him in the squad.

Because of his religious beliefs?


Horse on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

I would have thought you might like to string a few wins together before going all atheist, just in case.
IainFP on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach: I think Cross is a better player now, Murray has had his day. Long may Scotland play on Sundays :0)
coinneach - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Kipper:

Not because of his religious beliefs but because he won't play on Sundays.

Just been talking to my Dad on the phone.

He is a retired Church Of Scotland Minister..............................been working Sundays for years.
Cú Chullain - on 15 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

May be of interest to you, there is a cracking Irish rugby blog that follow, this weeks update has some interesting things to say about the last game.

http://whiffofcordite.com/

......................................................

Ten Questions

Despite what our learned friends in the print media might say, Ireland have a selection issue at out-half. Jonathan Sexton is unquestioned (except by our unlearned friends in the print media) number one, but is a major doubt for the Scotland game. Working on the assumption that he will be injured, as seems most likely, who should play in his absence is unclear. Ronan O’Gara has been backup since RWC11, but his performance graph has been going south for province and country since then, culminating in his worst performance in a green shirt last Sunday.

Management have, up to now, eschewed the opportunity to give gametime to any of the promising young out-halves currently playing for the provinces, bar Paddy Jackson getting the chance to mow down Fiji for the “Ireland XV”. This is not just us writing with the benefit of hindsight, and those with memories that stretch as far as nine months ago will recall the clamour for Ian Madigan to travel to New Zealand after a season in which he was arguably the standout 10 in the Pro12. Now, they have a serious problem, for the only man they have trusted for ten minute cameos for the last 15 months is no longer a Test-level outhalf, and the incumbent is sick. And that problem is entirely and completely of their own making. Games against Scotland and Italy in last year’s Six Nations, or in a summer tour where ranking points were not an issue and a win was never likely anyway, or against Argentina in November, were tailor-made for limited gametime for the youngsters to ease them into Test level.

Now, the choice is to dump them in at the deep end against Scotland, or persist with a legendary, but no longer effective player – not a choice we would like to have.

It’s been a consistent theme in the last three years that the management corps have declined opportunities to blood new players until absolutely forced to (by injury, typically) e.g. Mike Ross or Sean O’Brien – two players who have made a huge impression at this level. And it’s not like this policy has paid off in silver; Ireland haven’t challenged for the Six Nations since 2009, and were rather easily swatted aside by Wales in the World Cup quarter-finals. Narrow selection policy and short-term goal setting have been the rocks on which the current regime looks to be perishing.

So now we’re in a right old pickle for the game in Murrayfield, with not only a starting place, but a reserve to be chosen from four candidates. Before we go through the options, we are happy to declare upfront that the sole objective is to win the game, and to select the fly-half to give ourselves the best chance of doing that – not with the best chance of winning the 2015 World Cup, or beating New Zealand in 2036. Ireland need a win here, pure and simple:

The Safe Option (Or is it?): Ronan O’Gara. One hundred and twenty-seven caps. Let’s repeat: one hundred and twenty-seven – that’s incredible. O’Gara is the only player to have played in all 14 Six Nations tournaments, and, until recently, retained the apple cheeks and innocent look that so endeared him to Mario Ledesma and Rodrigo Roncero. But is he really so safe? All the caps in the world count for little if the player’s level has fallen over the cliff-edge. Peter Stringer has many more caps than Conor Murray, but it doesn’t make him a safer selection for next week’s match. The test rugby arena is no longer a place for slight 35-year olds fly-halves.

ROG’s last start for Ireland was in the World Cup quarter-final – he didn’t have a good day then, and he has slowed down since. His boot is now Arwel Thomas-esque, as is his tackling. He has experience and self-belief, but unfortunately the old magic has gone. You could apply Enoch Powell’s famous political dictum to him and, for that, we are profoundly disappointed. It’s also worth asking how ROG could hurt the opposition. Scotland’s only dangermen are in their back three – loose kicking to them is likely to put Ireland on the back foot, and it’s questionable as to whether Ireland should be kicking much at all in this game.

On the plus side, his place kicking remains reliable. If pressed into action, at least he is unlikely to play as poorly as against England, and Scotland’s defensive system is probably less likely to put him under the sort of pressure England’s did. But to turn that question on its head, is he the man to best exploit the weaknesses in that defensive system?

The Nordie Option: Paddy Jackson is three months younger than Owen Farrell, and fully two years younger than O’Gara was when he played his first HEC final, but has seven Heineken Cup starts (including a final) to his name, and has been the Chosen One of Ulster rugby for a long time and looked the part in the uncapped match against Fiji. Alas, he has rather wilted in the last two months, and has yet to prove himself a reliable place-kicker, but has mostly impressed this year.

Cú Chullain - on 15 Feb 2013
Part II

He has often been babysat through matches by Ruan Pienaar and Pwal, but has begun to take on more responsibility, until his current trough of form. Murray has a similar style to Pienaar, and a combination with Jackson might be a good one. Jackson was injured last Saturday and is not expected to play this weekend either, which makes it very difficult to see Kidney turning to him. That said, he has the advantage of being in camp already, which may stand to him.

The Giteau Option: Ian Madigan is the most exciting of the bunch – he has an eye for the tryline, and at his best, moves a backline around with a slickness that has Leinster fans purring. He has yet to come near displacing Johnny Sexton (although we expect he’ll start next season in the 10 shirt), but his distribution and breaking game is ideal for taking on a Scotland side who fall off tackles for fun. England and even a lacklustre Italy punched numerous holes through their pourous midfield. A fast paced running game is the obvious way to beat this Scotland side, rather than kicking to their solid lineout and giving them the opportunity to bring their back three into play.

Madigan has endured an up-and-down season, having been press-ganged into an unfamiliar role at full-back, but has got back to his best form since returning to fly-half. His place kicking stats are also strong this year, at over 80%, and he nailed six from six at the weekend in a winning performance in Cardiff.

Counting against him is a loose kicking game and erratic decision making, while his line-kicking from penalties is inconsistent and a lack of big game experience. He has just one Heineken Cup start at fly-half, against an already-out Montpellier, so test rugby would be a major step up in intesnsity from what he is used to. He has spent less time in camp than Jackson, having been overlooked in November and returned to Leinster promptly this Spring. And we don’t get the feeling Deccie is that big a fan. He has overlooked Madigan for both this year and last year’s Wolfhounds games (for Jackson and Keatley respectively).

You might hear “You can’t throw Madigan into Murrayfield”, but it’s not that strong an argument – the Embra stadium is a library, and Madigan is familiar with it from the Pro12. With serious reservations – there are no perfect solutions to this mess, folks – Madigan would be our choice to start, based on hope that his talent will overcome a lack of experience.

The Help: Ian Keatley has done well when deputising for O’Gara so far this season in Munster, but Rob Penney sees both players every day, and has yet to prefer Keatley for a big game. Piloted Munster to their inevitable five-try win against Racing, but has a tendency to suffer from the yips with his place-kicking. His skillset looks reasonably well equipped to take on Scotland, with a decent breaking game, and strong defensive credentials, but does he have enough class for test rugby? Firm outsider, but he is the only one of the youngsters with Test starts on his CV (albeit against the USA and Canada).

The Ray Lewis Option: Johnny Sexton may have damaged his hamstring on Sunday, but maybe he should consult Baltimore Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis – the veteran tore his triceps in October (normal recovery time: 6 months) but was back in 10 weeks to lead his team to the Superbowl. Bill Simmons of Grantland (think Conor George, except American, likeable, respected, intelligent, knowledgeable, well-spoken, a good writer and with good teeth) called him a cheat for it – but if Lewis could sort Sexton out with some deer antler spray, he might be back for Murrayfield. And it’s not like the IRB are serious about PEDs, so he’d probably get away with it too.

So which way is it going to go? We expect Deccie to stick with ROG, and while Jackson would probably be Decie’s preferred reserve, his injury just might cost him that chance, with the in-form Madigan best placed to be the beneficiary. Undoubtedly, this weekend’s round of Pro12 games represent something of a beauty parade, and with Leinster at home to Treviso, Madigan has a good opportunity to press his case. Can he ensure he doesn’t try to do too much on his own?

Each of the four contenders comes with a hazard warning, but given the weakness of the Scottish midfield, we have a preference for Madigan to start with the insurance policy of ROG on the bench. We know Kidney to be a conservative, but faced with deteriorating performances from the likes of Stringer, O’Leary and Fitzgerald in the past, he has shown an ability to make surprising, seemingly-out-of-nowhere, ruthless decisions. Could this be one such occasion? Probably not. Deccie will most likely stick his chips on ROG to have just enough wiles to sneak a win against pretty ordinary opposition, so long as he knows he has Sexton to return for the more arduous French game.

Whatever fly-half Kidney chooses, we’d like to see a joined-up selection that shows an intent to hurt Scotland, not merely to scrape by. With that in mind, his choice of loosehead – between Tom Court and David Kilcoyne – is also important. Scotland’s scrum is no better than average, and Court is the more destructive scrummager of the two. If Ireland do pick ROG – as we expect them to – they should look to attack the Scottish scrum and milk it for three pointers, giving ROG the platform to work the scoreboard. If, on l’autre hand, Kidney were to take a risk on Madigan, David Kilcoyne’s energy and pace in the loose would dovetail best, putting an emphasis on playing the game at a high tempo. Anyone care to wager against ROG and Kilcoyne starting?
Hat Dude on 15 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

A bit off topic but I wonder if the Spanghero company involved in the horse meat scandal has any connection with the Spanghero brothers; Walter & Claude, who rather ironically used to beef up the french pack in the 1960s & 70s? Two very tough guys!

(This brings this thread into line with current policy that there must be a horse meat reference in all threads)



Horse on 15 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

They haven't exactly embraced the succinctness and humour normally associated with blogs. Do we really need several pages to know that O'Gara is well beyond his sell by date and the Irish management are not much cop at selection?

Try "Mud and Blood" or "Total Flanker" for something a bit more bite sized.
Cú Chullain - on 15 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

You are no fun at all.
Darren Jackson - on 15 Feb 2013
In reply to All:

Given the thread title - especially the bit in parentheses - I'm somewhat surprised that France haven't been mentioned more.
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Horse on 15 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:
> (In reply to All)
> I'm somewhat surprised that France haven't been mentioned more.

Are they playing this year?
Jason Kirk on 15 Feb 2013
In reply to Hat Dude: They are indeed the owners of that company!
Jason Kirk on 15 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Well they failed to turn up for their first two games.
Hat Dude on 15 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:

I've just found a Reuters article which says it was founded by Walter's brothers

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/02/15/uk-horsemeat-spanghero-idUKBRE91E09920130215


When I first saw the name & where the firm was located, I thought there may be a link
Horse on 19 Feb 2013
Horse on 19 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

Here you go, brief, to the point and doesn't require a PhD in Irish rugby to get the message about ROFG:

http://tinyurl.com/bbpdarq
coinneach - on 19 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

This is great..............................no one's slagged off our lot for ages!
Horse on 19 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Things can change quickly, just like your lots winning "streak" or is that "streaky" win? If things go your way this weekend then it could be single figures in the IRB rankings, heady stuff indeed.
Shani - on 19 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Last weekend was the first in a while that Sloper didn't move down the Fantasy 6N league. Normal trajectory should be resumed come Saturday.


Looks like the French are going to turn up with fire in their bellies. Apparently none of their squad played in the Top 14 last weekend!
nickyrannoch on 19 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

or the 2 weeks previous.

i called it last week and to further enhance my status as the new brahan seer im going for scotland to win by a score (a single score, not 20).
Shani - on 19 Feb 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> or the 2 weeks previous.
>
> i called it last week and to further enhance my status as the new brahan seer im going for scotland to win by a score (a single score, not 20).

I could see Scotland doing but I'm not sure they have the quality that Ireland does. My predictions:

England to beat France
Ireland to beat Scotland
Wales to beat Italy
Shani - on 20 Feb 2013
Looks like Tuilagi will start. Better still, Michalak is invoking the Bulldog Spirit - high praise indeed from the French.

http://t.co/bogP6JRF
Horse on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

If it were just about any team other than France one would be saying an England win without even thinking. All the ingredients are there for French revival, probably a spectacular one (not some grubby, sneak a try affair like the Welsh the other week). If they have the right stuff for breakfast they could get off the bus, run riot, rack up a load of tries, shrug their shoulders and head back over the channel wondering what the fuss was about. You'd be a brave man to bet against it.
Darren Jackson - on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Alternatively, and hopefully, they'll just get stuffed.
Horse on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Yes, hopefully they'll have a Grindleford style full English to start the day followed by a Spar cheese and pickle sarnie for lunch and turn up feeling like crap.
MJ - on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Yes, hopefully they'll have a Grindleford style full English to start the day followed by a Spar cheese and pickle sarnie for lunch and turn up feeling like crap.

Like the All Blacks did...
wynaptomos - on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> If it were just about any team other than France one would be saying an England win without even thinking. All the ingredients are there for French revival, probably a spectacular one (not some grubby, sneak a try affair like the Welsh the other week)

We'll take all the grubby wins we can with our recent record......

I suspect not many England fans would complain with a similar win on saturday.

Cú Chullain - on 20 Feb 2013
Interesting news coming out of the irish camp. Looks like Kidney has finally grown the balls to drop ROG to the bench, Jackson to start at 10 with Marshell at 12. I feel better about Sunday now
Horse on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to wynaptomos:

I won't complain if it is a grubby penalty that limps over the bar in the 89th minute to provide a 1 point win.
Horse on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

No mention of "crushing" anyone nor Grand Slams this week. All is not lost Ireland can still win the Wooden Spoon.

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Cú Chullain - on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
>
> No mention of "crushing" anyone nor Grand Slams this week. All is not lost Ireland can still win the Wooden Spoon.

Will you feck off ;-P

In fairness my original prediction was that Ireland would 'crush' England by 3 points.

Glad to see that ROG is finally taking the first steps to being put to pasture, he has been millstone around the national and Munster team for too long. Still fancy Ireland to win on Sunday although the Sweaties will be well up for it, will not be easy.

If the same French side that played Wales turn up on Saturday then England should win at a canter. My fear is that the French always have one big game in them and that would be against Ireland!!
Jason Kirk on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

So instead of the baby faced one they have just picked a baby that doesn't kick for his club. Brave decision!
coinneach - on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
If they have the right stuff for breakfast they could get off the bus, run riot, rack up a load of tries, shrug their shoulders and head back over the channel wondering what the fuss was about.


Then lose in Paris against Scotland!
Horse on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

I also recall this one:

Farrell ....... I expect him to implode in a tearful sh*t heap come judgement day in Dublin

Snigger, snigger.
Horse on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Have you been drinking at lunch time again?
Cú Chullain - on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
>
> So instead of the baby faced one they have just picked a baby that doesn't kick for his club. Brave decision!

Would you rather have ROG? Jackson can still take a penalty, his average was not as good as Pienaar's so the latter took over as choice kicker at Ulster. That said, I would rather have Jackson as he actually has a bit of vision and pace and is capable of making breaks or realsing his backline. His kicking from hand is not too shabby nor is his defence which is fearless. Of course I would rather have Sexton but Ireland need to start finding back up options to him as O'Gara is simply not good enough and a liabilty at this level. Even the most die hard myopic Munster fan is now calling time on ROGs career as he has been rubbish for some time now at club level. He is a legend, but he needs to step down. This has been the problem with Ireland over the seasons whereby they only blood new players during times of injury crises.
Cú Chullain - on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
>
> I also recall this one:
>
> Farrell ....... I expect him to implode in a tearful sh*t heap come judgement day in Dublin
>
> Snigger, snigger.

You just dont do prematch banter do you
Horse on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

I do, I also do post match banter.
Horse on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

Given Kirk is a one eyed skirt wearer I suspect he would very much like ROFG to start and play like the shit heap he was a couple of weeks back.
coinneach - on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
>
> I do, I also do post match bollocks.



Fixed.



:-)

Jason Kirk on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain: Honestly I would like you to field 15 from the blind college.
Jason Kirk on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain: failing that ROFG would be my first choice. He's such a complete tw*t! did you see him kick out at the Edinburgh player last month? He was lucky he got such a shirt ban. The muppet from the SUFTUM lot is their second string kicker. Good luck with that!
Jason Kirk on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

Pre match banter is only worth so much when your team fail to deliver!
Horse on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:

Given some of the handling and kicking on display against England one could be forgiven for thinking a few of them had left the labrador and white stick in the changing room.
Jason Kirk on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: I think we can be fairly sure what Cian Healy was looking at as he stamped down on Cole's ankle and it wasn't the ball.
mark s - on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk: not 6 nations but seen vids of carlin isles in the sevens,never seen anyone move so quick
Horse on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to mark s:

Have you told Mr Bolt?
mark s - on 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: not seen him on a rugby pitch yet.sure there is more money to be made in rugby than athletics
Shani - on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to mark s:
> (In reply to Jason Kirk) not 6 nations but seen vids of carlin isles in the sevens,never seen anyone move so quick

He's sure got speed! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yT8RIFEYIk

England's Christian Wade is also pretty quick.
Jason Kirk on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani: 7s is all good fun but it's not the real deal.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Cú Chullain - on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain) failing that ROFG would be my first choice. He's such a complete tw*t! did you see him kick out at the Edinburgh player last month? He was lucky he got such a shirt ban. The muppet from the SUFTUM lot is their second string kicker. Good luck with that!

ROG has been a liabilty and an increasinly petulant player for the last few seasons. He has always been arrogant, but got away with it for his many match saving performances for Munster and Ireland over the years. He has been crap since 2008 and Kidney has been useless in giving others game time in preperation for a loss of Sexton. Playing Jackson this SUnday is a gamble, but I think it would be more of a gamble to have ROG starting at 10 instead. Hopefully now we will start to see a genuine battle between Jackson, Madigan (Leinster) and Keatley (Munster) to be a genuine back up option to Sexton.
Shani - on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

Oh dear. Looks like ROG's experience is being spun as an asset for Ireland in the Scotland game: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2013/0220/1224330267619.html
Horse on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Enough of the fringe squabble over a spoon here is some real news.

England team sheet stuck on the changing room wall, 3 changes are ManOverboard for Trees, Hartley for Youngs and Loon Lawes for Haskell

http://tinyurl.com/bzcyovq

We still await the French XV but I have a feeling it is going to be big, bruising and will aim to put England on the back foot. It could be a hard shift for the Donkeys up front.

the sheep - on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

3 changes for the team to play against France, Hartley for Youngs at Hooker, Tuilagi in for 36 in the centres and Lawes replacing Haskell at No6. Looks like we are planning a route one game to start of with and give their forwards a good going over early on. However whilst I agree Haskell should not start (or be on the bench for that matter) I would prefer to see Tom Wood start at 6 and have a specialist 8. Hopefully this will be the case when Morgan returns.
Cú Chullain - on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
>
> Oh dear. Looks like ROG's experience is being spun as an asset for Ireland in the Scotland game: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2013/0220/1224330267619.html

I usually like Alan Quinlan's articles but he is just wrong with this one, I just dont understand the blind spot in the Irish media when it comes to being critical of ROG. I agree with this analysis from another site:

"The overwhelming majority of pundits were happy to put forward the ‘blind faith’ argument, that ROG was ROG and would therefore play well by a sort of ROG-O-Magic that rewinds the clocks to 2008. But any reasoned analysis showed that wasn’t likely. The player has been in decline for some time now (and we re-iterate that there is no disgrace in that – there are not many other almost-36 year old skinny-limbed 10s playing test rugby)."
Cú Chullain - on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Frog team announced:

Le XV de départ : Huget - Clerc, Bastareaud, Fofana, Fall - (o) Trinh-Duc, (m) Parra - Nyanga, Picamoles, Dusautoir (cap.) - Maestri, Samson - Mas, Kayser, Domingo. Remplaçants: Szarzewski, Debaty, Ducalcon, Suta, Claassen, Machenaud, Michalak, Fritz.


Looks a better balanced back line with Fofana at centre and Clerc on the wing. Also Parra and T-D.

Should be a good match. Would not want to get between the Bastareaud Tuilagi contest.

Horse on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

That is a strong side and as you say better balanced. On paper there is no weak link, I hope they turn up after a bad lunch if not it could be all a bit Corporal Frazer. It'll be a real test for the England back row, two of whom are out of position and against class opponents. The Donkey department should be a right old ding dong in and I'm not convinced England will find it as easy to get on top there, if they don't we're back with Coporal Frazer.

The half backs have form of "doing" England, especially that little f*cker Parra and the back three won't need much of an invitation to run against a rather sluggish English trio.

The centre battle will be fascinating but I think BB gets the job of dealing with Bastareaud. BB is OK he tackles for fun, it wouldn't surprise me to hear he went out on Christmas Day to collide with a few Rhinos just for the hell of it.
Jason Kirk on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Will defo have the beer and snacks ready for the Fra v Eng game. The French seem to have picked players in position this time. Maybe they have just been trying to lure Le Rosbifs into a false sense of security.
The Samoan against the one of questionable parentage should be fun to watch too.
Shani - on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:
> (In reply to Horse)

> The Samoan against the one of questionable parentage should be fun to watch too.

Diamonds will be formed when those two collide. Reckon it might come down to who is better disciplined. Weather should be dry but with a fresh breeze.
Jason Kirk on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani: Yep! I think the Samoan may win that fight that though as he seems to like running into brick walls for fun. It's what limits him as a player. He would never look for a gap he always sees who he can run into whether he has the ball or not.
the sheep - on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:
> It's what limits him as a player. He would never look for a gap he always sees who he can run into whether he has the ball or not.

Not always true.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17333792
Jason Kirk on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to the sheep:

That wasn't so much a gap as a hole you could drive a truck through.
Horse on 21 Feb 2013
MJH - on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain: They'll be glad to have Domingo back as well - that is one heck of a beastly FR.

Fofana back at centre is at last a smart move by PSA.

Not so sure that the England back 3 is as leaden as some make out - Ashton and Brown are no slouches.
Jason Kirk on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Pah!
Horse on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:

So you accept you were wrong, jolly good.

For anyone with an iPad you can listen to Mr Joubert explaining himself live via ref radio:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/9885657/Six-Nations-2013-England-v-France-referee-audio-a...
Jason Kirk on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Wrong? I'm never wrong sometimes other people make mistakes that make it look like I was wrong but I'm never wrong! ;-)


If you believe any of the shit I say good luck!
Horse on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:

Thank you for that helpful clarification.

I take your posts as seriously as used to Sloper's.
Shani - on 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Jason Kirk)
> I take your posts as seriously as used to Sloper's.

Talking of Sloper, I was speaking to the good man himself tonight. His predictions were broadly an Irish win (quelle surprise), and France to give England a tonking by 15 points.

Let's hope his powers of prediction are consistent with those he's made for the two rounds previous.
the sheep - on 22 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:
As always the poor fellow is deluded :-)
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Horse on 22 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

That is interesting, I had the misfortune to exchange communications with him a few hours earlier. His contention then was France by a score plus 5. So if we take the lower bound as a penalty plus 5=8 and you posted some three hours after his initial estimate we have an inflation rate of 2.3 points per hour. That means by no side on Saturday the prediction would be France by 2.3*48=112.

Clearly this assumes the Sloper Prediction Equation is linear with time and not in any way influenced by the quantity of alcohol The Vole has consumed.

Whatever way you add it up one can probably conclude he is talking bollox.

Jason Kirk on 22 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Soon be time to sit down and watch some rugby. U20 sheep against the U20 Romans until 7:30 and then time to watch the red hand brigade get their arses handed to them by Glasgow.
MJ - on 22 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:

U20 sheep against the U20 Romans until 7:30 and then time to watch the red hand brigade get their arses handed to them by Glasgow.

Bit of a mud bath in Italy, hope it's a bit drier tomorrow!
Ospreys v Edinburgh starts at 2000 for those with BBC2 Wales.
Darren Jackson - on 22 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

I just spoke to Sloper too; he confided that he's considering voting Labour at the next election and has just invited a Big Issue vendor to dinner.

... Diagnosis, 'challenged'. Again.
Horse on 22 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:
> (In reply to Horse)
>
> invited a Big Issue vendor to dinner.
>
Presumably to pluck the pheasant, peel the spuds and do the washing up after all 9 courses are finished

Jason Kirk on 22 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Glasgow on to another great win beating Ulster 20-14. Sweet!
Shani - on 22 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Might me time to advise Slopes that his Fantasy Six nations team would do much better if he selected Pope Benedict at FH and Oscar Pistorius as hooker.

Starting to get quite excited about the games tomorrow!
Slugain Howff - on 22 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Well earned win for Glasgow tonight....

S
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

Here we go for weekend No.3, trench warfare in a wet Rome?
Shani - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Welsh scrum looking dominant.
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Pity Mr Cotter has gone off crocked, seems that only 1 out of 4 eyes is working in the commentary box.
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

What a load of rubbish that was.
Shani - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Horse)
>
> What a load of rubbish that was.

The conditions played a part, but, yep, that was pretty shitbish.
Slugain Howff - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

France by a narrow margin.

S
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

Project get Parra starts.
Darren Jackson - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Sacrebleu!... A converted penalty within the first minute.
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Looks like the visitors had a reasonable lunch
Slugain Howff - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

1-0 France
Darren Jackson - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

Looks as though they've decided to play a bit, today...
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

They are a right bloody handful.

Slugain Howff - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

What a wonderful sport it can be......

S
Slugain Howff - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Farrell is going to get his arse felt if he carries on like this.....

S
coinneach - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

Aye . . . .a good game to watch before the big match tomorrow . . .
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

He needs to calm down and think about getting ManOverboard into the game
Shani - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

Looks like they've decided to wind Faz up. Tuilagi looking lively.
Darren Jackson - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

That's what we were missing: the lead... And I was missing a beer.

Happily, normal service now resumed on both counts.
Darren Jackson - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

D'oh!
IainFP on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach: The French would appear to be facing 16 opposing players, albeit one in a red shirt!
coinneach - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Oh la la ..............!
Slugain Howff - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Danced through the slaps for a fine try.
Hannah S on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:
D;oh in indeed, come on lads.
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

Always a good plan to run straight at Ashton.

We do have a proper game on though.
Darren Jackson - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Nicely poised.
Slugain Howff - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

.......or precarious
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

England need to get their act together, hopefully Parra will slip on a half time orange skin and have to stay in the hutch. The blokes a f*cking nuisance.
Darren Jackson - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

Do you mind? I'm trying to think positive.
Slugain Howff - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Darren Jackson)
>
> England need to get their act together, hopefully Parra will slip on a half time orange skin and have to stay in the hutch. The blokes a f*cking nuisance.

Reminds me of Dan Parks

S

Slugain Howff - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to

2-0 France
Darren Jackson - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
>
> ... The blokes a f*cking nuisance.

I enjoyed the sight of him briefly getting buried beneath Tuilagi in the first half.
Hannah S on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
yes
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Darren Jackson - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Hannah S:

That'll do.
Mark Morris - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to IainFP: It would seem so!
Hannah S on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:
indeed what happened to the guy who's shirts covered in blood must have missed that.
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

ManOverboard, knows where the try line is.
Darren Jackson - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Hannah S:

That's Manu. They were feeding him Frenchmen at half-time.
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Mark Morris:

Yawn
coinneach - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Farrell being subbed due to the dodgiest hair cut of the season
Darren Jackson - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

I think that he just kicked his thigh bone out of it's socket.
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

This is a real test rugby. Tense stuff.

Wood is playing a blinder.
coinneach - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

He's been running like a forward all game.
Darren Jackson - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Still tight, but England looking stronger now.
coinneach - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Picamole from a " neutral " viewpoint is MOM
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Or Wood or Robshaw, any of the 3 would be fair
Slugain Howff - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to

What were they thinking giving Trinh-Duc the hook?
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

Especially for Freddie!
Darren Jackson - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Nice one lads.
Slugain Howff - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

France lost that in the substitutions

S
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

In part taking off Trinh was bonkers, England substitutions were also significant. You have to be able to play for the full 80, not just 60.
andy - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: the Lawes at 6 experiment seems a comprehensive failure.
Shani - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Slugain Howff)
>
> In part taking off Trinh was bonkers, England substitutions were also significant. You have to be able to play for the full 80, not just 60.

Too right. Got to say that fielding Michalak was a turning point for England.
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oscaig - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
+1 for Picamole MotM - absolutely

Good close and competitive game for 3 of the 4 quarters but tactics and substitutions let les Blues down at the end.
Horse on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

Don't think we'll be seeing that happen again.
Shani - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to oscaig:
> (In reply to coinneach)
> +1 for Picamole MotM - absolutely
>
> Good close and competitive game for 3 of the 4 quarters but tactics and substitutions let les Blues down at the end.

The question for Les Bleus is where do they go from here? Their next match is against Ireland in Dublin. What are the odds of a fourth straight loss in the 6N and perhaps even le cuiller en bois?
MJ - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

The question for Les Bleus is where do they go from here?

Play with the starting team of today would be the sensible option...
Shani - on 23 Feb 2013
In reply to MJ:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> The question for Les Bleus is where do they go from here?
>
> Play with the starting team of today would be the sensible option...

Aye. You'd hope it is a case of 'lesson learned'. The Ireland game will be intense. There is no way the French would live down a fourth loss.
Slugain Howff - on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Sunday afternoon - hiding behind sofa......again.

S
Horse on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

Ireland must be getting due for a coloured card for persistent offending.
Slugain Howff - on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Blatant.....
Horse on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

ROFG materclass
Alan Taylor - on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: Why wont he bin the cheating sods
andy - on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to Alan Taylor: dig in Scotland - you deserve this if only to teach the cheating sods a lesson.
Alan Taylor - on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to andy: Take that you cheating b***ards
Horse on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to andy:

Ireland masters of their own demise, fumbling handling error to finish things off, LOL.
andy - on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse: well done Scotland - amazing rearguard action off absolute scraps.
Cú Chullain - on 24 Feb 2013
Jesus f@cling wept, that game must have set the record in terms of a side winning the most territory and possession and still losing. I am livid here. ROG needs to be turned into a findus lasagne. That must be his last cap. Well done to the sweaties, you took your few chances, Ireland took none of heir many.
Kipper - on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
>
> Ireland masters of their own demise, fumbling handling error to finish things off, LOL.

They just don't seem 'clever' enough to win matches like this. I hope it quells the idea that they're any good, particularly amongst Lion selectors.

Well done Scotland (although they almost managed to give it away at the end :-)).

Jason Kirk on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: That was physically painful to watch! Happy with the result but we were very lucky. Helped by ROFG! What was he doing with that kick? I think that might be his last game for the Bog.
coinneach - on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:


Thanks Ronan.



The cheque's in the post !
Jason Kirk on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach: I wonder if Frank4Short was watching?
IainFP on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to Jason Kirk)
>
>
> Thanks Ronan.
>
>
>
> The cheque's in the post !

I wish there was a "like" button on UKC.

Ireland got the result they deserved!
ads.ukclimbing.com
Shani - on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin) That was physically painful to watch! Happy with the result but we were very lucky. Helped by ROFG! What was he doing with that kick? I think that might be his last game for the Bog.

ROG is like a poor man's Michalak. Can't believe so much possession and territory could result in a loss.
Darren Jackson - on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to IainFP:

Congratulations Scotland!... Some awkward questions to be answered in Dublin.
Shani - on 24 Feb 2013
Anyone else looking forwards to ROG vs Michalak next week? Should keep "You've Been Framed" in footage for a while.
MJ - on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

ROG is like a poor man's Michalak. Can't believe so much possession and territory could result in a loss.

The kick was daft and might well be the last thing he does as an International player. However, Ireland should have won the match in the first half, so it's hardly fair to single out O'Gara.
Shani - on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to MJ:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> ROG is like a poor man's Michalak. Can't believe so much possession and territory could result in a loss.
>
> The kick was daft and might well be the last thing he does as an International player. However, Ireland should have won the match in the first half, so it's hardly fair to single out O'Gara.

To a point, but much has been made of ROG's weaknesses in the media, and so his 'ahem' contribution was both foreseeable and avoidable.
Alan Taylor - on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: Had the Irish taken their chances it should have been a rout
Horse on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to MJ:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> , so it's hardly fair to single out O'Gara.

Probably not, but it is fun. And that kick must surely put him in pole position for this year's Gregor Award for best comedy moment.

nickyrannoch on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

get in!!! thought it would be a shitefest but that we would edge it.

the championship is all but a formality now
Cú Chullain - on 24 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to MJ)
> [...]
>
> Probably not, but it is fun. And that kick must surely put him in pole position for this year's Gregor Award for best comedy moment.

I still cant believe that ROG cross field kick..
Horse on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

Updated IRB rankings

http://www.irb.com/rankings/index.html

Ireland continue their collective journey south, individually few should be making a similar journey come the summer.

For anyone wondering why ManOverboard was wearing cotton wool round his head for most of the game:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/9891642/Six-Nations-2013-Englan...
Cú Chullain - on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
>
> Updated IRB rankings
>
> http://www.irb.com/rankings/index.html
>
> Ireland continue their collective journey south, individually few should be making a similar journey come the summer.
>

Its not great, that said the sunday result should be enough to get Kidney the sack and we are still far enough away from the next world cup to give any newcomer a fair stab at forging some life into the jaded squad. On a positive I thought Marshell had a great debut (Even allowing for his crap pass to Gilroy). Jackson had a good game in open play, his swift hands releasing Marshall (twice) and Keith Earls in the first half, but 1 from 4 kicks is not good enough at this level. Was strange to see Ireland spurn the easy penalties at goal and then ask Jackson to try and land the more difficult ones out wide. O'Gara, nuff said, sad to see a once great player reduced to that. I still want Jackson to get another start and replace ROG on the bench with Madigan. Assuming BOD and Darce will not be around next year Ireland actually have quite a few exciting young backs to work with, Zebo, Gilroy, Marshall, Jackson, Madigan and a fit Sexton to boss them. Hopefully these guys will actually start getting some game time over the summer and autumn tours, something Kidney singularly failed to do. Best needs to work on his darts as again he is great in the loose, Ireland are missing the authority of O'Connel at the lineout.
Coel Hellier - on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to the thread:

Why on earth did Scotland opt for the scrum at the end? Given referees' penchant for assigning penalties at scrums more or less at random, a scrum on your own 5-yrd line, even with the put in, is always dangerous.

A line-out around the 22-line is surely safer, and if you maul it and ruck it a bit uses up just as much time.
Cú Chullain - on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to Coel Hellier:

Scotland were pretty solid on their own scrum and their was still a few minutes on the clock to wind down, they knew after a few scrum resets all they had to do was kick to row Z. Despite the shambles of Ireland line out in the first half they had actually nicked a few balls from the Scots own line or disrupted it. I thought it was the right call at the time.
Coel Hellier - on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

> ... they knew after a few scrum resets all they had to do was kick to row Z

It's the risk of having a "few scrum resets" and no penalty against you. Surely that's as big a risk as that of losing a lineout, and much nearer the line so more dangerous.
nickyrannoch on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to Coel Hellier:

it wasnt a penalty
Coel Hellier - on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:

Wasn't it? It certainly looked to me as though the ref had awarded a penalty.
nickyrannoch on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to Coel Hellier:

I'm 90% sure it was a scrumm - i was 100% sure until i saw your post.

BBC website says for obstruction (do they mean accidental offside??)at the time i thought it had been given for a knock on, will need to go back and check the highlights.

What i was having kittens about is why once the clock had gone into the red and Irish scrum committed another infrigement and a new scrum was awarded is that not the game, why do they set the scrum again. i thought the game only went on for penalties?
Horse on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:

Watch it again, Kearney ran straight into a loitering donkey in front of him, accidental offside. Mr Barnes was straight on it and said scrum Scotland.

Had it been a penalty there would have been much wasting of time before deciding to hoof it into row Z. There would have been even more faffing before Scotland threw to the front (with the clock red) and then rumbled into touch.

Once the scrum, line out or penalty is given the game continues (if the clock then goes red) until the next phase of play is over. Barnes actually reminds the players of that at one of the resets, saying we have to have the scrum.
tony on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:
> (In reply to Coel Hellier)
>
> I'm 90% sure it was a scrumm - i was 100% sure until i saw your post.
>
> BBC website says for obstruction (do they mean accidental offside??)at the time i thought it had been given for a knock on, will need to go back and check the highlights.
>
> What i was having kittens about is why once the clock had gone into the red and Irish scrum committed another infrigement and a new scrum was awarded is that not the game, why do they set the scrum again. i thought the game only went on for penalties?

It wasn't an Irish infringement - it was just a general collapse, which Barnes didn't attribute to either side. So it wasn't a new scrum, it was just the first one (for the original accidental offside infringement) being reset.

Jason Kirk on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: Watching again on iPlayer. Ruaridh Jackson is shit at FH we need to start with Duncan Weir.
ads.ukclimbing.com
coinneach - on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:

watching it AGAIN.................?

You must be a glutton for punishment

Jason Kirk on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
Irish rugby players have been voted the ultimate men by women across the world. Only they can be on top for 80 mins and still come second.
Horse on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach: It keeps him off the street and stops him droning on about referees.
Father Noel Furlong on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:

Outstanding. :-)))))))
Slugain Howff - on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Shifting focus from all the discussion about Ireland throwing the game away can anyone come up with half an explanation for a Scottish performance that could only manage 20% territory and possession.
.......behave now Horse!!
Kipper - on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to Coel Hellier:
>
> Wasn't it? It certainly looked to me as though the ref had awarded a penalty.

I thought he signalled a penalty initially, but changed to a scrum a few moments later. I won't bother watching it again to check.



Horse on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to Kipper:

He never put is hand up, he put it out towards Scotland and signaled a scrum. This might help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icuwFKUGXIk

There are few there you don't see often, not straight put in at the scrum anyone?
Horse on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

I have had a good think and the answer is a resounding no.


Anyway back on message:

http://www.bloodandmud.com/2013/02/shitgood-ratings-rbs-6-nations-round-three.html
Jason Kirk on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff: Well Jackson kicked away every bit of possession we had. Duncan Weir made a bit of difference when he came on. Also we gave a lot (far too many) penalties away at the breakdown. I'm not sure if that was because Barnes was being a cnut or because we were just shit at the breakdown.
The breakdown does seem to be an issue for us. Luckily Ireland were shite and clueless and it was a bit like the way Scotland played last year in some games.
Kipper - on 25 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Kipper)
>
> He never put is hand up, he put it out towards Scotland and signaled a scrum. This might help
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icuwFKUGXIk

Good video! (I thought they'd forgotten about the forward pass :-))

I'm still not watching it again to see that he signalled a penalty.
Jason Kirk on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9893759/Six-Nations-2013-It-might-...


I've never read so much garbage in my life before. If he really believes the world cup is more important than the 6N then I think he must be a complete moron.
wynaptomos - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk: Don't you see that they are starting the process of softening the blow of losing the decider against Wales :)
Postmanpat on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>
>
> I've never read so much garbage in my life before. If he really believes the world cup is more important than the 6N then I think he must be a complete moron.

What?

Jimbo W on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Anyone any comments on the petulant paediatric footballers like behaviour in the England France game? Pissed me off, particularly Ashton and Farrell. Please spare us from these kind of football divas!
Horse on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:

I suppose if a team hasn't a cat in hells chance of winning a world cup (you know who I mean) then the 6N is probably the limit of ones ambitions and therefore takes on rather more importance.

At the risk of having to invoke Telfer's Law* I think England have higher ambitions. The main thrust of the article is a good one.

*Telfer's Law is the rugby thread equivalent of Goodwin's Law in which the use of the A word in relation to England is thread end.
tony on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

Careful! You'll be sounding like Brian Moore if you carry on like that!
Horse on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

Indeed but you also forgot to mention the drama queen Para and his tripping mate Picamoles.
Jimbo W on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to tony and Horse:

> Careful! You'll be sounding like Brian Moore if you carry on like that!

Indeed, I heard Brian commenting on it, but there was some element of truth to it. People making mountains out of mole hills, and while I was impressed with Farrell in the first two games, he seemed to have a different head on entirely with respect to his interaction with the opposition in the last game. I don't know if something riled him early on, but he was playing up until all the way through until he did his groin.
Jimbo W on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

> Indeed but you also forgot to mention the drama queen Para and his tripping mate Picamoles.

Indeed!
balmybaldwin - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>
> Anyone any comments on the petulant paediatric footballers like behaviour in the England France game? Pissed me off, particularly Ashton and Farrell. Please spare us from these kind of football divas!

Farrell in particular is going to come a cropper one of these days, any slightest altercation and he seems to run in from halfway accross the pitch... I'm surprised refs aren't on the look out for it. Ashton is just a hot head, and overated in my opinion.

Speaking of footballers, Parra has a habit of making the most of anything, and trying to con the ref (although it is a bit more acceptable from a 9).
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Jason Kirk on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

The only person being arrogant is Josh Lewsey in trying to say that a Grand Slam is not a big deal. How many players get a chance to go into the final game knowing that if they don't screw up a GS is on the cards?
Much as I hate watching England win anything they are playing some good rugby at the moment and I can't see Wales beating them. Wales have been fairly ordinary so far this tournament and Italy without Parisse are hopeless.
The world cup is a bit fun every 4 years but the real action will always be in the spring when the 6N is on.
Shani - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to Jimbo W)
> [...]
>
> Farrell in particular is going to come a cropper one of these days, any slightest altercation and he seems to run in from halfway accross the pitch... I'm surprised refs aren't on the look out for it. Ashton is just a hot head, and overated in my opinion.
>
> Speaking of footballers, Parra has a habit of making the most of anything, and trying to con the ref (although it is a bit more acceptable from a 9).

I'd say that Big Faz will be having words with Little Faz about his petulence. It could prove costly if it isn't nipped in the bud. But the guy is only 22 so you have to cut him some slack.

Daniel Day Lewis was lucky that Parra's performance fell outside of the Oscar nomination period:

http://balls.ie/rugby/morgan-parra-goes-down-theatrically-against-england-gif/
Slugain Howff - on 26 Feb 2013
Postmanpat on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:
> (In reply to Horse)
>
> The world cup is a bit fun every 4 years but the real action will always be in the spring when the 6N is on.

You are having a larf aren't you? The 6 nations is the second division of world rugby. That's like a football team saying they'd rather win the championship than the premiership.

Shani - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

Ashton is another with whom the management need a few quiet words. There is talk of dropping him for the next game or two and pushing Tuilagi out on to the wing (bringing Billy36 back in). This means we could see Tuilagi vs George North in the Wales game. How awesome would that be?
balmybaldwin - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

That would be interesting to see, but not sure he'll be as effective out there, mind you his brother plays on the wing and isn't too shabby... just wonder if he's a better option bulldozing the middle of the line
Jason Kirk on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Postmanpat:

I think we will have to agree to differ! Arguing on here is like the special olympics. Someone may think they've won but you'll both still be special!
Jason Kirk on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani: Is he really fast enough to be on the wing?
Shani - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:
> (In reply to Shani) Is he really fast enough to be on the wing?

He may not be the quickest, but he is still quick. He is a very strong ball carrier, explosive, agile and hard to stop. He'd give North food for thought in terms of attack and defence.
Jason Kirk on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Defo hard to stop! Pains me to say it but this English side are not bad.
Shani - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Defo hard to stop! Pains me to say it but this English side are not bad.

Don't worry - in a few months you'll be able to support English players 'chip-free' under the auspices of The Lions!

;)
Horse on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Slugain Howff:

For a bit of balance an alternate view:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9893602/Six-Nations-2013-England-n...

Not that I necessarily agree with that.

ManOverboard is more than the supposed bulldozer, he has quick feet, good hands, a nose for the gap and is quick. Like Barritt he tackles Rhinos for fun. Whether he is a winger or not is debatable, it is very different to centre, just ask Wesley.
Kipper - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Postmanpat:
>
> You are having a larf aren't you? The 6 nations is the second division of world rugby. That's like a football team saying they'd rather win the championship than the premiership.

This probably has a ring of truth to it - there's only 1 real rugby playing nation in the 6N, the other 2 play in the Southern Hemisphere so it's against them that you need to judge yourself.


coinneach - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Kipper:

So which two of the three nations above The Hype in the world rankings play " real" rugby ?

And what sort of rugby does the third country play?
Kipper - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
>
> So which two of the three nations above The Hype in the world rankings play " real" rugby ?

Just looked at the rankings - New Zealand and South Africa.

>
> And what sort of rugby does the third country play?

League, AFL and cricket probably all rank higher as supported sports.



coinneach - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Kipper:

So their fourth best supported sport is still better than The Hype ?


But they don't play "real" rugby


You' d be totally buggered if they ever took it up seriously
Horse on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to Kipper)
>
> So their fourth best supported sport is still better than The Hype ?

We'll have none of that sort of talk round here please, those f*ckers are no way better. You wait in a couple of weeks they'll be heading South with Ireland.

Kipper - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
>
>
> But they don't play "real" rugby
>

I never mentioned 'real' rugby, but real rugby playing nations.

And I didn't mean to include 'The Hype' in that.


coinneach - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Ach . . . . They're easy.


We've stuffed them the last two games!


Horse on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Which rather proves my point, they must be s***.
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Shani - on 27 Feb 2013
Anyone else get a scare when they saw this headline?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/28/world/middleeast/iran-nuclear-talks.html
Jason Kirk on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

I suggest we send Farrell in first elbowing folk and then follow it up Tuilagi to deal with the folk he upsets. I'm not so sure Ashton suits that silk blouse though!
coinneach - on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:

Seems that Healy has managed to wangle a reprieve of sorts!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21442144
Shani - on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to Jason Kirk)
>
> Seems that Healy has managed to wangle a reprieve of sorts!
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21442144

Ire vs Fra should be a cracking match. Possible wooden spoon decider. Highlight of the weekend for sure.
Jason Kirk on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

How do these Irish players manage it? ROFG should've had a much longer ban for his kick out against Edinburgh but luckily for us he was playing last weekend. Anyway at least Healy missed the game against us.
Jason Kirk on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

That should be a good game but the match at Murrayfield will be a close match too. Italy v England should be a proper hammering.
coinneach - on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:

Meanwhile ................. De Luca gets 13 weeks for a tip tackle!

13 weeks!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21608767
Jason Kirk on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

On the plus side it means he can't play for Scotland! I've never rated him. Average club centre but not an international standard player.
Jimbo W on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

> Ire vs Fra should be a cracking match. Possible wooden spoon decider. Highlight of the weekend for sure.

Unbelievable that this can be so!
coinneach - on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:

Until very recently my Dad golfed with his Grandpa.

Last time I saw him he said;

" It was getting very difficult to say how well Nick had played and look him in the eye at the same time"

Jason Kirk on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

I can only imagine how awkward that must have been!
Horse on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:
> (In reply to coinneach)
>
> How do these Irish players manage it?

No idea, perhaps they turn up in Black shirts. Anyway it shouldn't make a difference, hopefully PSA will play the first XV for the full 80 minutes and completely fillet the f*ckers.

Jason Kirk on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

I hope they play ROFG again! I could do with a good laugh!
Cú Chullain - on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Jason Kirk)
> [...]
>
> No idea, perhaps they turn up in Black shirts. Anyway it shouldn't make a difference, hopefully PSA will play the first XV for the full 80 minutes and completely fillet the f*ckers.

So much hate
Horse on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

I wouldn't go that far but I don't particularly warm to them.
Shani - on 27 Feb 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> [...]
>
> Unbelievable that this can be so!

Yep, and it is hard to predict the outcome. If FRA can't suck it up against ENG in the 6N then they've little hope. However a depleted IRE may just roll over.
Jason Kirk on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to Shani:

Ireland having nothing in attack! They are about as sharp going forward as blunt wooden spoon. In the matches against both England and Scotland they had lots of opportunities and in each case found new and interesting ways of screwing them up.
Slugain Howff - on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Ireland having nothing in attack! They are about as sharp going forward as blunt wooden spoon. In the matches against both England and Scotland they had lots of opportunities and in each case found new and interesting ways of screwing them up.

Indeed, Ireland are the new Scotland.......

Cú Chullain - on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Ireland having nothing in attack! They are about as sharp going forward as blunt wooden spoon. In the matches against both England and Scotland they had lots of opportunities and in each case found new and interesting ways of screwing them up.

I would not say that they had nothing in attack, they made five clear line breaks against Scotland with both Earls and Marshell cutting some excellent lines, they made a couple against England who had a much tighter defence then Scotland. The problem was utterly appalling decision making at the end of a move or very poor execution of a final pass. i.e. Earls not throwing a simple inside pass to BOD or Marshell buggering up the pass to Gilroy. Although this 6N has been very poor for Ireland I am reasonably happy about some of the new lads coming through even if they should have been given game time last year. Marshall, Gilroy, Zebo, Madigan and even Jackson (who has a great running game but needs to sort out the boot). The future is even brighter when you think ROG will probably not feature in it.
Horse on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:

You might need to pop the other eye back in. Ireland are quite capable of creating chances with their backs, they certainly did so against Scotland (who remain decidedly lack lustre in the creation department). The real comedy for Ireland is their inability to finish them off, they've butchered so many chances they ought to be working for Findus.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Shani - on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Jason Kirk)
>
> The real comedy for Ireland is their inability to finish them off, they've butchered so many chances they ought to be working for Findus.

True. Earls will NEVER live down his failure to pop that pass out to BOD.....or at least BOD will never let him forget it. Earls clearly came down with a dose of White Line Fever.
Cú Chullain - on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Jason Kirk)
>
> The real comedy for Ireland is their inability to finish them off, they've butchered so many chances they ought to be working for Findus.

This. Have a look at the match stats, its painful reading.



SCOTLAND:
Scoring -

Tries: 0
Conversions: 0/0
Penalty Goals: 4/5
Drop Goals: 0/0

Attack -

Possession: 29%
Territory: 23%
Ball Carries: 35
Metres Made: 122
Kicks From Hand: 30
Line Breaks: 0
Tackles Bust: 4
Offloads: 1
Rucks/Mauls Won: 29
Rucks/Mauls Lost: 2

Defence -

Tackles Made: 128
Missed Tackles: 16
Turnovers Won: 2
Tackle Success: 89%

Infringements -

Total Penalties Conceded: 16
Total Free-Kicks Conceded: 2

Set Pieces -

Lineouts Won Own Throw: 11
Lineouts Lost Own Throw: 1
Lineout Success: 92%
Lineout Steals: 3
Scrums Won: 5
Scrums Lost: 2
Scrum Success: 71%

Ball Carries -

6 Stuart Hogg
5 John Beattie
4 Jim Hamilton

Metres Made -

38 Duncan Weir
30 Stuart Hogg
19 John Beattie

Lineouts Won -

6 Jim Hamilton
3 John Beattie
2 Richie Gray

Tackles -

15 Kelly Brown
12 Ryan Grant
10 Richie Gray

IRELAND:

Scoring -

Tries: 1
Conversions: 0/1
Penalty Goals: 1/3
Drop Goals: 0/0

Attack -

Possession: 71%
Territory: 77%
Ball Carries: 124
Metres Made: 310
Kicks From Hand: 28
Line Breaks: 4
Tackles Bust: 16
Offloads: 7
Rucks/Mauls Won: 106
Rucks/Mauls Lost: 4

Defence -

Tackles Made: 44
Missed Tackles: 4
Turnovers Won: 1
Tackle Success: 92%

Infringements -

Total Penalties Conceded: 13
Total Free-Kicks Conceded: 1

Set Pieces -

Lineouts Won Own Throw: 13
Lineouts Lost Own Throw: 4
Lineout Success: 76%
Lineout Steals: 1
Scrums Won: 5
Scrums Lost: 2
Scrum Success: 71%

Ball Carries -

22 Sean O'Brien
14 Luke Marshall
11 Craig Gilroy

Metres Made -

67 Keith Earls
66 Luke Marshall
40 Rob Kearney

Lineouts Won -

6 Donnacha Ryan
2 Donncha O'Callaghan, Sean O'Brien

Tackles -

5 Luke Marshall, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip



coinneach - on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to Horse:

Oh........................changed your mind then..........?

And the added bonus of O'Moaner kicking to the Scottish back three, they seem rather adept at accepting any gifts on offer quickly, very quickly.
Jason Kirk on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to Cú Chullain:

Remind again what the score was. If you read what I wrote instead of filling up the page with waffle you would've seen that I said Ireland found new and interesting ways of screwing it up not that they did not make any chances. As it was Ireland did find many different ways of failing to score.
Horse on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Err, no. Accepting the gifts on offer is not the same as creating stuff for yourself. I've made that point several times already this season.
Shani - on 28 Feb 2013

The Grauniad are attempting to put the mockers on any chance of an England GS or WC!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/feb/28/england-six-nations-grand-slam
Horse on 01 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani:

Pah, Guardian all commies or celtic stooges.

Anyway, Wigan's finest answers his critics:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/

It might be better if he shut up and got on with knocking people over and scoring tries.
Darren Jackson - on 01 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

"I have just got myself in an uncompromised position and it is unfortunate that I have given him that time to use his footwork on me and get away from me..."

Does not compute.
Horse on 01 Mar 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Perhaps English is not his first language.
Shani - on 01 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Pah, Guardian all commies or celtic stooges.
>
> Anyway, Wigan's finest answers his critics:
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/
>
> It might be better if he shut up and got on with knocking people over and scoring tries.

Tricky situation. If the game against Italy is easy for him I don't think that that will be the best preparation for Wales.
Darren Jackson - on 01 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

That uncompromised positioning probably explains the untackle, anyhow?... I'm prepared to forgive him if he goes on the unattack, in the next two games, and unscores a few untries.
Shani - on 01 Mar 2013
In reply to Darren Jackson:
> (In reply to Horse)
>
> That uncompromised positioning probably explains the untackle, anyhow?... I'm prepared to forgive him if he goes on the unattack, in the next two games, and unscores a few untries.

An understandable opinion.
andy - on 03 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21650749

Ah shucks - it seems the comedy could be over.
Shani - on 03 Mar 2013
Kimono - on 03 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani:


ROFG i think you'll find is the common term nowadays ;)
MJ - on 03 Mar 2013
In reply to andy:

Ah shucks - it seems the comedy could be over.

Unless he retires, there's still club rugby to watch him perform in. His attempt at a winning drop goal at the weekend springs to mind...
A few seasons ago, it would have sailed through the posts. This one was short by at least 5 yards.
That and other aspects of his game, show that age has crept up on him and the sharpness lost is now outweighing experience.
Shame really, as he should be remembered for his good years and not being ridiculed for his current performance,
In contrast, I think Stephen Jones has timed his retirement to perfection.
MJ - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Parisse cleared to play on Sunday: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21689889
the sheep - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:

Michalak is set to start for France, guess PSA must feel sorry for the bogtrotters troubles at 10 so is giving them a hand??
MJ - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to the sheep:

Michalak is set to start for France, guess PSA must feel sorry for the bogtrotters troubles at 10 so is giving them a hand??

The man is obviously mad, or perhaps in this case, just French...
balmybaldwin - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:

Certainly seems to be doing everything he can to win the wooden spoon!
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the sheep - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:
I guess he is praying for his one good game of the year, however with a cool rainy day in Dublin forecast i doubt it.
Shani - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to the sheep:
> (In reply to MJ)
>
> Michalak is set to start for France, guess PSA must feel sorry for the bogtrotters troubles at 10 so is giving them a hand??

PSA is playing the long game by sacrificing this 6N. Let me explain...

If IRE win this game then Deccie keeps his job (and so will continue pissing away Irish rugby talent). Thus, come the next RWC, IRE will suck.
the sheep - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani:
England team up with 5 changes.
England: 15 Alex Goode, 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Manu Tuilagi, 12 Brad Barritt, 11 Mike Brown, 10 Toby Flood, 9 Danny Care, 8 Tom Wood, 7 Chris Robshaw (c), 6 James Haskell, 5 Geoff Parling, 4 Joe Launchbury, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Tom Youngs, 1 Mako Vunipola.
Replacements: 16 Dylan Hartley, 17 David Wilson, 18 Joe Marler, 19 Courtney Lawes, 20 Tom Croft, 21 Ben Youngs, 22 Freddie Burns, 23 Billy Twelvetrees.

Looks like a good side and good use of the squad available. Cricket score on Sunday?
GrahamD - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to the sheep:

An England cricket score isn't what we want right now.
the sheep - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to GrahamD:
Good point..
MJ - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

As a starter to the weekend, I'm watching the Under 20's Scotland v Wales game. Very good it is too (if you're Welsh that is...).
Shani - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to the sheep: I'm hoping Ashton will have been stung in to action by recent criticism.
Welsh Kate - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:
Just seen the result on that one. Bodes well for the future. Doubt the grown ups'll get a similar result tomorrow though!
Shani - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Welsh Kate: I'm predicting a rampant Welsh performance today. They should win, as should France.
andy - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani:
> (In reply to Welsh Kate) I'm predicting a rampant Welsh performance today.

Hardly rampant, were they? What a crap game - penalty after penalty.

nickyrannoch on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

shite!!

well two wins is still progress but we need to try and score points rather than just prevent them. best team won
Shani - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to andy: Time seemed to slow down for that game. Even the ref was confused. He needed a calendar not a clock. Shitbish.
andy - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch: inverdale's just said there were more penalty kicks than any other international ever. Awful.
Shani - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to nickyrannoch) inverdale's just said there were more penalty kicks than any other international ever. Awful.

Inverdale has just apologised for the game!
JohnnyW - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Not the best eh!? Even if you take away the irritating scrummage decisions, Hamilton et al want a serious talking to!
And why can't Scotland keep the ball in hand for just a few seconds!?
Horse on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani:

Complete rubbish from both sides.
andy - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to JohnnyW: those early engage pings were bizarre. The very first one might have been right, but the rest were too close to call - and then wales got at least two penalties, one for an early engage and then when Scotland didn't dare hit another when Wales walked all over them.

The worst sort of inconsistent refereeing.
Postmanpat on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Complete rubbish from both sides.

Jason Kirk will be along in a minute to tell us how winning the six nations is a bigger prize than the World Cup. Winning the local under 11s old be a bigger prize on that showing. The Southern Hemisphere must be laughing the bollocks off if any of them bothered to watch.

Horse on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Postmanpat:

Trust me,according to him it was all the fault of the Saffer; nothing to do with the players not playing to rules.

Next up Persistent Under Achievers who believe their own hype versus the Mad Hatters Tea Party.
MJ - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

Brian Moore has just said, that he's not going to make any more comments about the scrum...
ads.ukclimbing.com
Shani - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:

Well, we know which France team has turned up. The only question now is will Ireland turn up for the second half?
Mark Morris - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani: Can the French not pass the ball without causing the receiver to check their run or drop the ball?
andy - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Mark Morris: dreadful conditions, poor second half.
Mark Morris - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: What an awful Saturday of rugby. Lets hope the Italians make it a match tomorrow.
Shani - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Mark Morris:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin) What an awful Saturday of rugby. Lets hope the Italians make it a match tomorrow.

Tricky conditions but I have to agree with you.
Oceanrower - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Mark Morris:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin) What an awful Saturday of rugby. Lets hope the Italians make it a match tomorrow.

Should have watched the Quins/Bath game. That was fascinating.
Jason Kirk on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Postmanpat:

I still stand by that comment the WC is a new fangled once every 4 year jamboree. The real action will always be in the spring in the northern Hemisphere.
Horse on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:

There wasn't much "action" yesterday.
balmybaldwin - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Italy getting a few good turn overs, good defense so far, help by some minor errors from England
Shani - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: England not really turned up yet. Think we need to release the bench.
andy - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani: think we might be seeing the last of Ashton for this year. Looking a bit desperate.
Shani - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to andy: Jeez, we can't score for trying.
andy - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani:
> (In reply to andy) Jeez, we can't score for trying.

They can though.

Oops.
balmybaldwin - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Great try for italy, certainly makes things a bit more interesting.
balmybaldwin - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Italy definitely on the up, what is going on with England?
Graham T - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
They don't look like they are awake to be honest. Some stupid errors.

That try for italy was really well worked though
balmybaldwin - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Ashton seems to being targeted by Italy now, really looks like he may not be in the line up against Wales. I think Flood is getting a bit past it now too, would be good to see Burns given a run
andy - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: this is bloody awful - italy deserve to win this.
gavin82 - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: Flood has had an awful game, don't know why he's still part of the squad.
andy - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to gavin82: England's kicking from hand has been dreadful - Floid's missed touch and both scrum halves have kicked appallingly.
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balmybaldwin - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Awful game by England, Italy deserved a win today, some outstanding performances from them.

Shani - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to andy: Bloody hell! Hopefully that has sharpened England for their next game.
andy - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani: they'll get slaughtered in Cardiff if they play like that. Hopefully it'll do them good - they looked clueless today.

Italy probably had the best five players on the pitch.
dale1968 - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to andy: they won't have this lineup for Wales
andy - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to dale1968:
> (In reply to andy) they won't have this lineup for Wales

But the subs weren't much better. Lawes earned his corn with that lineout steal at the end, but Youngs kicked like a tw*t, Hartley was anonymous and Croft was no better than Haskell (who was also shite).

Ashton to go out of the squad, Burns on the bench? Difficult to see where they go with all the momentum with Wales.
JohnnyW - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
Not good. Not good.
gavin82 - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to andy: Do you think Wales have momentum at the minute?... I haven't seen a convincing performance from Wales in a while and if they give penalties away like other games it will sit well for England.

Agreed, Ashton out, the squad we have now isn't suited to him like it was in previous years.
andy - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to gavin82:
> (In reply to andy) Do you think Wales have momentum at the minute?... I haven't seen a convincing performance from Wales in a while and if they give penalties away like other games it will sit well for England.
>

I was more thinking that they probably feel like they've turned the corner after the 8 defeats or whatever it was - they've won three on the bounce now (although they didn't look great yesterday).

stroppygob - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: Come on Wales, it's for the asking now!!!
IainFP on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to stroppygob:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin) Come on Wales, it's for the asking now!!!

Not really given the points difference. Even if the Welsh managed a win I can't see them scoring 15 more than England.

Oh, but what price an Azzurri win next weekend ;0)
MJ - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to IainFP:

Even if the Welsh managed a win I can't see them scoring 15 more than England.

To win the championship outright, Wales need to win by eight points. If they win by seven points, it will be decided on number of tries - Wales currently have two more than England.
MJ - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:

It's also still possible for Scotland to come second.
coinneach - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:

You're just being silly now...............................!
MJ - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:

You're just being silly now...............................!

Well it's entirely possible that Wales will win by the required ammount...
coinneach - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:

Even if they did


Scotland would still be third

( If they beat France )

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/six-nations/table
MJ - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:

If Wales lose by lots of points, they will have 6 points and a reduced points difference.
If Scotland win by lots of points, they too will have 6 ponts and an increased points difference.

Not sure what margins are required, but it in theory it's possible...
coinneach - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:

After so many years of poor rugby I'm quite content that we'll finish 3rd whatever happens!
coinneach - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Or fourth
MJ - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:

After so many years of poor rugby I'm quite content that we'll finish 3rd whatever happens!

Nothing like ambition...

I'm rather hoping that todays England turn up on Saturday and Wales find an extra gear and score the required points.
As a bonus, lets hope for decent weather and that the games are played with a bit more panache than the last few have been.
coinneach - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:

Nothing like hope....
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stroppygob - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:
> (In reply to IainFP)
>
> To win the championship outright, Wales need to win by eight points. If they win by seven points, it will be decided on number of tries - Wales currently have two more than England.

Going on the English perfomance vs Italy, I can see Wales putting a few tries past them at least.

Postmanpat on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:
> (In reply to Postmanpat)
>
> I still stand by that comment the WC is a new fangled once every 4 year jamboree. The real action will always be in the spring in the northern Hemisphere.

What do you think a poll of international rugby players would suggest?
Jimbo W on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to IainFP:
> (In reply to stroppygob)
> [...]
>
> Not really given the points difference. Even if the Welsh managed a win I can't see them scoring 15 more than England

Really. On the basis of that woeful performance yesterday, I think there is every chance they could do a 15 points difference. Indeed, I do not think England deserve a grand slam...
gavin82 - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to Jimbo W: So which Welsh performance in the 6 nations are you basing an every chance of a 15 point difference?
MJ - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to gavin82:

So which Welsh performance in the 6 nations are you basing an every chance of a 15 point difference?

Firstly, it doesn't need to be 15 points, 7 should suffice.
Secondly, no team has played particularly well in this championship. Wales seem to be improving and England showed signs of faltering on Saturday.
As it stands, I would say it's pretty even going into the game on Saturday.
gavin82 - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ: I don't think Sundays performance is anything to go on.

Agreed that as it stands, it's looking even. Unfortunately this weekend has all the makings of a terrible game, with both sides too afraid to come out and play some proper rugby... but lets hope I'm wrong...
Shani - on 12 Mar 2013
SL making the right noises:

“It’s a couple of years until 2015 and we know that we’ve got Wales in what will be a big high-pressure game.

“For a team to get that type of experience now and go up there and try to win a Grand Slam will be a special occasion.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/morgan-to-miss-six-nations-showdown-1.1322204
MJ - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Welsh team announced: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21786596

Jenkins to Captain, with Warburton at 6 and Tipuric at 7.


English team: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21784224

Youngs and Farrell at 9 and 10 respectively.


Here's hoping for a good match...

Shani - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:

> Here's hoping for a good match...

I'm just hoping for a try! (English naturally)
Horse on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani:

A win is a win, try or no try. Great to see Croft back in the starting line up.

Home advantage and big, fast wingers running at Ashton will give Wales a win.
MJ - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Team Loopy: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21787924

Michalak stays at 10...
andy - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> A win is a win, try or no try. Great to see Croft back in the starting line up.
>
> Home advantage and big, fast wingers running at Ashton will give Wales a win.

Agree on all points - I did think England might have an advantage in the back row but I think Warburton's return to form and the team has probably given wales the edge there too.

Oh bugger...
the sheep - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

Its going to be close, if we can weather the early storm and stay in contact with the boot we are in with a shot. Cant see us clocking up many points by crossing the whitewash though.
Shani - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> A win is a win, try or no try. Great to see Croft back in the starting line up.
>
> Home advantage and big, fast wingers running at Ashton will give Wales a win.

Has Sloper hacked your UKC account? ;)
Horse on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani:

I am just being consistent, I said before the whole thing started there would be no Slam and England would be up against it especially in Cardiff.

The really, really big sub-contest is Dan Cole versus Jones "The Hair".
MJ - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Sexton now out of the Irish team: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21739546
Jimbo W on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani:

> I'm just hoping for a try! (English naturally)

Me too. A don't actually care who wins, as long as there are a few tries and we don't have one of these grinding attritional displays with points only from penalties.
Jimbo W on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

> Home advantage and big, fast wingers running at Ashton will give Wales a win.

I agree. Looking at the stats across the matches so far, I can't see England winning this.
IainFP on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> [...]
>
> Me too. A don't actually care who wins, as long as there are a few tries and we don't have one of these grinding attritional displays with points only from penalties.

Joubert's "only" running the line on Saturday so there shouldn't be a repeat of the Murrayfield debacle!
Horse on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to IainFP:

I think we get Mr Walsh so expect coloured cards, he likes to use them as his have a mirror on the back so he can look at himself.
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coinneach - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

He's apparently " Anti English"

Not like Joubert who's "Anti Rugby"
Horse on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:

He does have form.
Jason Kirk on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse: We've got Nigel Owens. He went up in my estimation a lot on Sunday after telling Clancy how it was.
Horse on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to Jason Kirk:

Mr Owens, best of the bunch. Maybe time to find those vids of him on Blood & Mud.
IainFP on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to Horse)
>
> He's apparently " Anti English"
>
> Not like Joubert who's "Anti Rugby"

Classic LOL

Walsh will be too busy strutting about loving himself to bother about the "unattractive ones"!
Joubert was poor last weekend, his comments at the scrum cringe-worthy.
Horse on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:


Walsh (and irrelevant match) preview here

http://www.bloodandmud.com/2013/03/rbs-6-nations-massive-preview-wales-vs-england-millennium-stadium...

On a related matter do we know if the roof will be open in the Liza Minelli stadium?
coinneach - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

Closed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21758088


And it's the Linoleum stadium
ian Ll-J - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Grand Slam for Wales tonight?

U20's kick off at 7:30
Horse on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Pooh, even the weather won't be on our side.
Shani - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse: England by 10!
Horse on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani:

Have you been raiding the cellar at Chez Sloper.
coinneach - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

The English fans seem to be relishing being underdogs for this one.

I reckon....

Italy to finish what they started last week and beat Ireland.

England will prevail in an arm wrestle indoors.

And in the match that REALLY matters ( or they wouldn't be showing it last )

Scotland to win in Paris for the first time since Sir Gavin was a boy!
Shani - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Have you been raiding the cellar at Chez Sloper.

Chance'd be a fine thing. I am meeting him tomorrow in Manchester so we'll see. He'd ben on the phone predicting a Celtic clean sweep worth a side order of Gallic surprise. I'm sticking with a pasta bake with roast beef and a bordeaux.
Horse on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:

I'm sure you be delighted to know that I am not backing Scotland tomorrow night. If things pan out Ireland could get a spoon which would make me chuckle although it would require some hefty looking scorelines in both Rome and Paris.
coinneach - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

If you backed Scotland we'd be guaranteed to lose............



I may have to thank you in 24 hours!
Horse on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:

I know, aren't Wales fantastic and they should win at a canter, they get my vote :-)

balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

It's going to be a close one, but I think having the roof shut will play to England's advantage for once... they haven't been great in slippery conditions
MJ - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

It's going to be a close one, but I think having the roof shut will play to England's advantage for once...

Both teams have to agree to the roof being shut and obviously Lancaster appears to agree with you.
Maybe they think it will make kicking more predictable, as I fully expect England to try and play on the Welsh 10M line and get their points via penalties.
Gatland has said in the past, that Wales should be able to decide unilaterally about the roof - don't think the IRB agree with him though...
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Come on Italy!
IainFP on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>
> Come on Italy!

Amen to that!
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coinneach - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to IainFP:

Fire , beer in the fridge, only me and the cats in the house.


Eight hours of rugby.


Bliss!
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to IainFP:

Yep, lets hope the Italy that played France and England turn up today.
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Anyone know who the refs are for each match?
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Wayne Barnes is on at the momemnt.

The camera hogging I'm gorgeous Mr Walsh is next up

Then Nigel "this not soccer" Owens is on patrol in Paris.
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

Thanks, its been a trversty that Mr Owens has been wasted on the side lines (and ignored by Joubert) the last couple of matches
coinneach - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

Nice to see the totally impartial BBC opening the programme from the England dressing room.
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

He is the best of the bunch, it was George Clancy who ignored his advice we can't blame Joubert for that.
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Terrific drive from the Italians, more of that please.

PS Put the chip back in the fryer :-)
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

Ah my mistake, it was joubert that ruined the Scotland match last week wasnt it

A few good signs for Itally early on
coinneach - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to coinneach)
>

>
> PS Put the chip back in the fryer :-)


I can't




It's full of Mars Bars

Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Good man, pizza for tea is it?
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Nasty and deliberate stamp to the ribs. Not Bod like
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

He has form, just usually gets away with it.
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

Hmm, he certainly agressive, but that looked very much like trying to injure the italian

Some good quick ball coming for italy, be better if they could stop dropping it
coinneach - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Ireland must have left the luck on the bus.
Alan Taylor - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:9-3 but a try would be nice
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:

It probably got lost on the luggage carousel at Rome airport.
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Its looking pretty dire for them with the injuries...and the Italians arent known for being soft
Alan Taylor - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: Irish got away with that
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Alan Taylor:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin) Irish got away with that

Bit of Italian acting I think.
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Alan Taylor - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: I meant the man down with BOD being in the bin. thought that the other was a bit like a football player stunt
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Alan Taylor:

Fair enough, and you are right, italy should have capitalised.

Alan Taylor - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: Try now though
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Alan Taylor:

Looks like it will be their best tournament to date at this rate.

Ireland seem to be in pieces,

Only worry now is we need Scotland to beat France to make sure they get the wooden spoon.

Oh dear Parisse
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Oh, looking a bit stickier now
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

What was that yellow for? Repeated infringements?
andy - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>
> What was that yellow for? Repeated infringements?

Dangerous tackle - you could hear Barnes telling him beneath the commentators' ramblings.
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to andy:

22-15. Great result, now for the main course :-)
andy - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to andy: well done Italy, and well done Wayne Barnes for binning the dirty buggers.
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to andy:

Mr Barnes had a good game, got the cards out for both sides when required but showed a bit of common sense too.
Jimbo W on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

Yep. Thought it was good game for the ref, great game from Italy.. ..really pleased for them and what it means for the whole 6 nations competition, and absolutely woeful from Ireland, injuries notwithstanding.
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

With that many injuries and all the injuries this season one has to wonder what is going on in Irish ruby, it can't just be bad luck.
andy - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse: think mr walsh has it in for england - two dodgy penalties already. And ashton is simply shite.
andy - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse: oh deary me. This has all the hallmarks of a proper stuffing.
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to andy:

Good save whoever got that tap tackle, and parling securing the ball
andy - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to andy: ashton misses yet another tackle...
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

These scrums are shite
MJ - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

...and breathe!!!
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:

Phew!
In reply to balmybaldwin: I'd like to know what the point of a scrum is. They may as well toss a coin and give a penalty.

Ferociously entertaining game.
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Shani - on 16 Mar 2013
Sloper's tear ducts resembled a spitting cobra 45 minutes ago. A fierce Welsh performance has at least stopped the crying. Fitness and the bench will settle this.
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani:

I hope you have a wooden spoon ready to present to him if France do the business in Paris.
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

Youngs you idiot, this isnt football, secure the ball, dont appeal to the ref
andy - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse: well done wales - think the experience of playing games at the pointy end will see them home - deserved winners and champions.
nickyrannoch on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

well this is a pleasing days rugby so far.ill say that now as this is likely to be a high point.

just one ppint. tuilagi is pish.never passes and never attacks a gap.
andy - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>

> just one ppint. tuilagi is pish.never passes and never attacks a gap.

He's certainly been shite today - but difficult to see who hasn't been for England.

andy - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to andy: now... "Tackling" - remind me - is it allowed?

Superb from Wales, utter, utter crap from England.
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to andy:

Wales are the better side by a country mile. Cricket score coming up.
gribble - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

i think we have a result.
andy - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse: quite why they've left Ashton on is beyond me.
Jimbo W on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

> Youngs you idiot, this isnt football, secure the ball, dont appeal to the ref

Exactly
andy - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse: walsh's reffing of the scrum is bloody bizarre.
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to andy:

The Welsh conned Joubert last week and have done it again this week with Walsh. Arguably the 6N has been badly spoilt by referring of the scrums. The IRB need to sort it out, get rid of the sequence rubbish and go back to proper scrumming, put the ball in straight and hook properly. They won't.

Jimbo W on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to gavin82:

> So which Welsh performance in the 6 nations are you basing an every chance of a 15 point difference?

Okay, so I underestimated the margin of the win!
Shani - on 16 Mar 2013
Wkl done Wales. Sloper ecstatic. Shani gutted. Suggestions welcome.
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

I actually had 15+ :-)
nickyrannoch on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

you would have thy would be a bit more consistent seeing as the irb insist on picking fromt the same half dozen guys for every single match
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani:

Pray to whatever deity you pray to that France win and Ireland get a spoon.
Jimbo W on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to andy:

> walsh's reffing of the scrum is bloody bizarre.

Walsh is a bizarre ref, unlike what was great refereeing in the Italy Ireland game. However, I don't think that England could have won this game whatever the decisions.
Shani - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Pray to whatever deity you pray to that France win and Ireland get a spoon.

Nauturellment!


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Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

That is all true. However, a consistent feature of this 6N has been one side gaining a position of undue ascendency through one facet of the game seemingly on the whim of the referee. The Scottish forwards last week, the English this week seemed utterly baffled as to what Joubert and Walsh were penalising them for. The IRB really need to sort it out at the moment it is a cheats paradise.
Slugain Howff - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

The writing was on the wall after the Italy game last week.

s
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Hats off to Wales, England had a poor game, but even if they were playing their good game, they couldnt have beaten wales today.

Some very poor performances from England, the only ones that were good were Brown and Goode and even they made their mistakes.

Walsh didnt help, but you have to play to the ref. It cant help that our front row crouch for about 5 mins before the ref says crouch.
andy - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:
> (In reply to andy)
>
> [...]
>
> However, I don't think that England could have won this game whatever the decisions.

Oh blimey no - wasn't suggesting that - I'm not sure it had much of an impact actually, as there weren't that many scrums in important areas - but it was bloody odd.

That Wales would have beaten that England every time no matter what happened at the scrums - they won it because they're a better team in pretty much all areas.

I do wonder if it might be good for England to get a stuffing - I don't think SL would let them get ahead of themselves, but a decent reality check or two might be good in the long term.

But I hope (and as a rugby league and wigan fan it pains me to say it) they should send Ashton back where he came from - he's one who seems to believe his own publicity and just gets arsey when things don't go his way. There was a couple of times he was lucky to stay on the pitch, his tackling was abject and he can't have made more than five yards when he did get the ball.

milkyjoe - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> Not looking good for Wales is it?
>

The very first line of this epic thread is looking kind of amusing now.

Wales played an excellent second half and deserved the win. If it had been closer the ref would have a lot to answer for the bizarre refereeing of the scrum. It went against England in this match, but it's gone other ways in other matches. The IRB need clearer rules, because for most fans it's totally unintelligible why penalties are being given most of the time.

Phil Payne - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that the ref had a bad game. To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen an England game where Walsh has been the ref that I haven't thought the same thing.

I'd really like to see some stats for decisions for/against England made by Walsh over the last few years. I bet it would be a telling story.

Lots of people have said that Wales were so good that it wouldn't have mattered how the decisions went today because the Welsh were too good, but England were always stopped in their tracks by the ref and never got a single chance to build up momentum.

I agree with everyone about Ashton being utter crap and he needs to be dropped for a while. I disagree about Goode having a good game, he constantly picked up the ball and ran into trouble in the centre of the pitch. He never once tried to get the ball out wide and spread the play. I was hoping that he was going to be taken off at half time, but it never happened.

Lets just hop that Scotland can stuff France and that France get the wooden spoon.
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Phil Payne:

Good point about momentum particularly at the start of the second half where Walsh was at his most curious. I was noticeable and odd that most of the problems seemed to be on the English loose side yet I don't recall him coming round for a look even once. And what was all the nonsense with Youngs? Having said that Wales were clearly the better side.

The worrying thing for the game is that the scrum is no longer a fair contest but is too often decided on the curious whim of the ref, this week Walsh, last week Joubert. It hands an unfair advantage to one side. It really does need sorting out.
andy - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse: Interesting to read this after watching Walsh's weirdness:

http://www.theweek.co.uk/rugby/52001/rugby-steve-walsh-six-nations-england-wales
MJ - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Well, that game went against all predictions!

Fast, furious, exciting and a scoreline that was nowhere near close.

Wales outplayed England in every department and seemed to rattle England from the outset to the extent that Farrell missed penalties.
Another thing was overall fitness and use of the bench, which was expected to favour England - Wales seemed to be better in both respects.

The only prediction that came true, was that the Referee would somehow be blamed for the English loss...

On the subject of Walshes refereeing of the scrum. Wales have had dominance in the scrum for the last 3 matches. They're obviously doing something which makes referees penalise their opponents and not themselves.
I would suggest it's because they're genuinely better in their timing of the initial engagement and whatever happens in the pushing and shoving battle afterwards.
However, if the English want to blame Walsh for them losing, so be it...

One thing I will agree on though, Ashton has had a very poor tournament. No International player should miss that many tackles and his petulance is definitely going to get him carded in future matches.




balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: .

Some excellent defense from scotland so far, seems like they relish not having the possesion.

Hogg has to be a shoe in for a lions spot
Mike7 on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

I would hope so, he looks a strong player no matter what team is dominant in the match.

However, France don't seem to have enjoyed being unable to score in the first half. They've come out in the second as if this game is actually worth something; including rolling out a few less than legal tactics.

If Scotland don't start to wake up and play like this is an actual game, they're likely to not only end up on the wrong side of a drubbing, but also the victims of a few cheap ones too. In my experience it's from this type of stuff that injuries appear.

Mich should definitely be cited for that right hook on Hogg. Had he been less of a weakling, being on the blind-side like that would likely have felled Hogg and perhaps caused some serious damage. Nasty little git.

The groundsmen should be shot!
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:


Whilst france seem to be making more of it this half, I cant help but think they would do better if half their team were off the field.
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:


Bollox
nickyrannoch on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

thats his shoe out again. nice nippy wee runner but simply not good enough at the basics of the game to be an international 15. might have a future on the wing
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:


Looks like itll be an irish spoon now
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Or maybe not I hear france need 17 clear points to avoid it... and scotland try
Mike7 on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Perhaps, Tim Visser scored a good try. He's a very, very strong and capable back - France still look like they're the only team that can be bothered today though.
nickyrannoch on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Mike7:

i wonder if visser is worth a look for the lions - altho probably not test xv. a very capable winger and finisher who would be more well known had his clearance to play for scotland come sooner. his record for edinburgh speaks for itself though.
Jack Frost - on 16 Mar 2013


No team can get the wooden spoon. No team lost all matches.
balmybaldwin - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

French spoon it is.

Not the best six nations overall despite a great start the first weekend. Wales worthy winners, good step forward from italy, Scotland a mixed bag, but at least they are taking some of their chances. England showing some really good signs, but lack consistency. Ireland and france in tatters.
andy - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>

>
> The only prediction that came true, was that the Referee would somehow be blamed for the English loss...
>

Has anyone said that? Walsh is a shit referee, and he does seem to have a problem with England - but as far as I can see every comment is that Wales would have won whoever was reffing - they were better in every department.
Mike7 on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:

I think that if there's one slot, despite Hogg being a very capable player who can exploit weaknesses in the opposing defence, Visser will likely get the nod.

While at first this may seem strange, I suspect it's simply because Visser strikes many as more versatile, while Hogg seems to drift out of games; (this is taking into account club rugby as well as the recent Six Nations).

Therefore for Lions selectors, Visser may well seem the more likley to gel with a select squad and still produce when called upon.

Who knows..?; personally I think Hogg has an extra gear that he's only occasionally showing. I believe there's mush more there, and when we see it he'll be amongst the very best.
stroppygob - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: I woke up here this morning, and found out that Wales had not only won, not only won by the required margin, not only won by more than the required margin handsomely, but had recorded a record highest defeat of England.

What a pleasant thing for an ex-pat Welshman in Aus to wake up to.

:-)
Horse on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>
> The only prediction that came true, was that the Referee would somehow be blamed for the English loss...
>

Really, who has said that?

It is curious that a good scrummaging side like Italy suddenly look rubbish against Wales. The Scottish pack wanders around in bafflement and their coach has a private conversations with the IRB about what happened at Murrayfield then today England get in a right mess and are equally baffled. One can't help thinking there is something amiss and the IRB need to sort it out.


Irk the Purist - on 16 Mar 2013
As an occasional rugby fan who in recent years (since England's world cup win) has been coming round to the game as a spectacle, I have to say that the refereeing needs sorting. I've played at school, I know the basic rules and I like to think I'm reasonably intelligent and can pick things up, but I had absolutely no idea what was going on. As I see it, refereeing in rugby is entirely random. The referee awarding penalties to Wales at every scrum just got me so confused that I eventually became so frustrated I turned it off.

If rugby wants to grow as a sport it needs to make the rules consistent, easy to follow and clear.

It was clear that England, Wales and the referee all had different ideas on what the rules were. If the players don't understand, then the fans definitely have no idea and people like me are turned off from the game. Fix it.

Kipper - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Eric the Red:
>
> It was clear that England, Wales and the referee all had different ideas on what the rules were. If the players don't understand, then the fans definitely have no idea and people like me are turned off from the game. Fix it.

Is it not time that a ball went into a scrum and the ref kept quiet until it came out - let them get on with it. The same after a tackle and the breakdown. They'd soon all learn what was beneficial.

DNS on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>
>
> The only prediction that came true, was that the Referee would somehow be blamed for the English loss...
>

You seem to be making that point in the absence of anyone making the claim.

Wales played a great game and totally outclassed England. Regardless of that, the ref's decisions with respect the the scrum were difficult t comprehend and seemed to penalise England more than Wales
stroppygob - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to IainFP:
> (In reply to stroppygob)
> [...]
>
> Not really given the points difference. Even if the Welsh managed a win I can't see them scoring 15 more than England.


How's that hat taste?
stroppygob - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin) My prediction is that Wales are not going to win the six nations this year.

> Munch, much, much, munch, much.......
Jonny2vests - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to stroppygob:

I've just been out and stomped on all the Daffodils in the garden.
Oceanrower - on 16 Mar 2013
In reply to Jonny2vests:
> (In reply to stroppygob)
>
> I've just been out and stomped on all the Daffodils in the garden.

LIKE!
MJ - on 17 Mar 2013
In reply to andy and others:

(My original comment: The only prediction that came true, was that the Referee would somehow be blamed for the English loss...)

The above comment was slightly tongue in cheek and was perhaps intended to get a bite...
However, it is interesting that people who have questioned this comment on UKC, have gone on to say how rubbish Walsh was and in some cases questioned his ability before the game even started.

Anyway, that doesn't really matter. I think we all agree that the best team won on the day.
In some ways, it will probably benefit both teams. Wales will get some confidence back and England will learn what it feels like to play in a big pressure game. Both of those are good for Northern Hemisphere rugby, especially with the Lions tour coming up.


Jim C - on 17 Mar 2013
In reply to Oceanrower:
> (In reply to Jonny2vests)
> [...]
>
> LIKE!

Where are all the the roses when you want one!

MJ - on 17 Mar 2013
In reply to Jack Frost:

No team can get the wooden spoon. No team lost all matches.

The Wooden Spoon is rewarded to the team that comes last and therefore they don't have to lose all their matches: -

http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/history.php

Relevant text from above: Meanwhile the last-placed nation at the end of the tournament is said to have won a purely figurative Wooden Spoon.
Jimbo W on 17 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:
> (In reply to andy and others)
>
> (My original comment: The only prediction that came true, was that the Referee would somehow be blamed for the English loss...)
>
> The above comment was slightly tongue in cheek and was perhaps intended to get a bite...
> However, it is interesting that people who have questioned this comment on UKC, have gone on to say how rubbish Walsh was and in some cases questioned his ability before the game even started.

In what way is it "interesting". You do know he has form, and not just with England. He's made numerous bad calls with many teams, has clearly got emotional/personal in decision making, loses his temper, even gets physical. He was banned as a NZ ref, and isn't proving too hot now that he's an Aussie ref. Why controversial refs like him are given more and more responsibility I really cannot understand - there must be a dearth. Saying Walsh was rubbish before the match was hardly rocket science or getting excuses in early, which you seem to be suggesting.
Horse on 17 Mar 2013
In reply to Jonny2vests:
> (In reply to stroppygob)
>
> I've just been out and stomped on all the Daffodils in the garden.

I've just returned from shopping to find The Boss has festooned the house with the damn weeds. In fairness I don't think she understands the symbolism. A few squirts of glycophospate should ensure they last less than the allotted 10 days.
Shani - on 17 Mar 2013
ian Ll-J - on 17 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani:
> (In reply to Horse)
>
>
> Photo of the tournament: https://twitter.com/TelegraphSport/status/313273661526274048/photo/1

Awesome Photo :-)


What was the score again
















30-3

Cymru am Byth!!!!!
IainFP on 17 Mar 2013
In reply to stroppygob:
> (In reply to IainFP)
> [...]
>
>
> How's that hat taste?

Got that wrong didn't I, not least the bad maths!

In my defence, the English (I'm not BTW) did a bit of a French job and failed to turn up given their past performances/potential, doing a big choke job when it mattered most. Thoroughly enjoyed the game, the best team won, and heartily agree with the comments re. Walsh in-particular his "performance" at the scrum. Noticeably he never changed sides at the scrum, presumably he didn't want his back to the camera.
andy - on 17 Mar 2013
In reply to IainFP:
> (In reply to stroppygob)
> [...]
> Noticeably he never changed sides at the scrum, presumably he didn't want his back to the camera.

^^^ :-)

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IainFP on 17 Mar 2013
In reply to IainFP: Interesting reading re. scrums;
http://blogs.theprovince.com/2013/02/23/rugby-safety-scrum-changes-to-be-trialled-at-2013-pacific-ru...

Surprised to note that stopping the "hit" can actually create greater forces, so the passive engage is not the answer.
The "touch" is now the bind, although new style jerseys to enable a secure bind may take 2 years to develop.

Bit more about the testing;
http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/01/21/scrum-hit-is-the-problem-after-all/
Horse on 17 Mar 2013
In reply to IainFP:

2 years WFT, send them round here I can provide a couple of prototypes or get me Mum to sew some big cotton patches onto a modern shirt.

I still can't help thinking that a return to a straight put in and proper hooking would remove the emphasis on a bit hit and shove the other lot off the ball.
balmybaldwin - on 17 Mar 2013
In reply to IainFP:

Interesting stuff, although it seems the obvious thing to try is for scrums to follow the rules...(at the risk of sounding like Brian Moore)... scrums should not push before the ball is in, and the ball should be fed in straight.

This means a static start removing the chance of instant collapse, and hookers actually hooking, reducing the forces in the front row which seems to be the problem according to the scrum forces project. Old style jerseys for the front row would also help massively.
IainFP on 17 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to IainFP)
>
)... scrums should not push before the ball is in, and the ball should be fed in straight.


But the problem here is the hit. They've removed the pause phase, but this isn't doing anything to lesson the impact of the engagement. Interesting that the report mentions that the hit actually goes some way to lessoning the forces after that initial impact. The move to make the "touch" actually the bind sounds positive, the problem at the moment being the gap that the front rows engage over.

Front rows being static prior the feed is always a problem because of the need to get the initial hit and the problems if you lose.
Straight feeds is simply down to refs not enforcing the laws. I feel these should be led from the top down yet at any televised games it's virtually fed to the second row! It is very simple to officiate.
Jersey backs of a more tactile material for props seems a very simple thing to do and infinitely sensible.

MJ - on 17 Mar 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

In what way is it "interesting".

I found it interesting, because virtually every single congratulatory comment seemed to be accompanied by a "However, that Walsh was a bit rubbish wasn't he...".
There is no question that scrums and their refereeing have become a farce, just that maybe that discussion could have been kept seperate to the post match analysis.
I'm probably reading too much into it and apologies to you and the other posters if I have.
andy - on 17 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:
> (In reply to Jimbo W)
>
> In what way is it "interesting".
>
> I found it interesting, because virtually every single congratulatory comment seemed to be accompanied by a "However, that Walsh was a bit rubbish wasn't he...".
> There is no question that scrums and their refereeing have become a farce, just that maybe that discussion could have been kept seperate to the post match analysis.

So...let's get this straight - pretty much everyone has said wales were brilliant and would have won whoever was refereeing. But because without starting another thread or a separate post they've pointed out that Walsh made some strange decisions especially around the scrum then it's "interesting" (which I assume means you think people think he did influence the result)?

That's also "interesting"...
Horse on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:
> (In reply to Jimbo W)
>
> that discussion could have been kept seperate to the post match analysis.

Why? The standard form in all sporting events is to discuss all aspects in the post match analysis. Why should this game be different? It is a shame that Walsh has to feature in that discussion but until he realises we haven't turned up to watch him it will continue. Compare and contrast with the games either side, hardly any comments on Mr Barnes & Mr Owens, that is how it should be.

> I'm probably reading too much into it and apologies to you and the other posters if I have.

You are, I would go further and suggest you seem to expect the English to, metaphorically, come on here, assume the position with arms out stretched head bowed, legs apart chanting "We are not worthy". Come back when hell freezes over.

andy - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse: I'm not sure of the correct form here - the BBC website is full of similar posts - England fans going "blimey, we were taught a lesson there by a far better team. Some strange decisions from the ref - not that it made the slightest difference" which appears to enrage the Welsh fans. I'd like to do the right thing, so is the right response to say that Wales are the greatest rugby team ever to play the game and we might as well give them the world cup now, or to say England are utterly crap and have no chance of ever wining anything with this team, or indeed any other team because they're...well... English (and are therefore arrogant, because arrogant and English should always be used together like "fish" and "chips")? And no mention of the referee without setting up a completely separate website.

Mind you, did you see Parling (I think) quoted this morning as saying one of the Welsh props admitted to dropping half a dozen scrums deliberately?
Horse on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to andy:

The right thing to do is carry on regardless, perhaps best not to mention Australians or the Pacific Islanders as that might be considered poor form.

Haven't seen the Parling quote but it sounds pretty similar to what Scott Johnson was saying after the Joubert farce.
andy - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to andy)

>
> Haven't seen the Parling quote but it sounds pretty similar to what Scott Johnson was saying after the Joubert farce.

Times today:

"Parling disclosed that a Wales prop had confessed to collapsing “about six of the scrums”, to which the England lock said: “Fair play if you can get away with it.”"
Jimbo W on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to MJ:

Wales played great, deserved to win, and it was a delight to see a more open game with some nicely worked tries.

Walsh was shite and shouldn't be refereeing these games. Here's some classic Walsh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifQh80FGum8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbOVco4eYw

Rewatch the match and watch his scrum management. He doesn't make any attempt to watch both sides... ...and as said above, rather curious how he's always wanting to face the cameras in the process!
Horse on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to andy:

... perhaps the nice Mr Walsh should have popped round to Welsh tight side for a little look see rather than obsessing about which blade of grass Youngs was standing on.
Shani - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

> Rewatch the match and watch his scrum management. He doesn't make any attempt to watch both sides... ...and as said above, rather curious how he's always wanting to face the cameras in the process!

Great hair demands an audience!
Horse on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:
> (In reply to MJ)
>
>, rather curious how he's always wanting to face the cameras in the process!

It can be worse than that, you sometimes see him watching himself on the big screen.
nickyrannoch on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

the modern scrum is everything that is wrong with the game and symptomatic of why i gave up playing at any decent level. all about getting down the gym and bulking up to be able to get big hits and disrupt the opposition scrum -its seen as the be all and end all of forward play and really its very boring.

its only a way of restarting the game after a minor infringement. even as a former loose head i would have no problem with the irb throwing their hands up and saying its rugby lewgue style scrums from now on. scrums were an interesting part of the game when they had proportional importance to the rest of the spectacle but its geeting to the stage where imho the scrum isnt worth saving.its fetishised as intriguing and fascinating by the likes of butler qnd moore but its actually really dull.

i was mucking aboutnon youtube the other day watching games from the 70s. thwre were no big hits on the engage but as soon as the ball was in the packs would squeeze and drive.much more stable and true test of pack strength.

MJ - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

I would go further and suggest you seem to expect the English to, metaphorically, come on here, assume the position with arms out stretched head bowed, legs apart chanting "We are not worthy". Come back when hell freezes over.

Why not. If it was good enough for the players on Saturday, it should be good enough for the supporters...

:)
GrahamD - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:

Only problem with dropping the scrums is you end up with a whole 15 of centres/flankers which could lead to even more one dimensional Rugby. I like watching the scrums even if I haven't a scooby about the workings - I'd rather the IRB tried to find a better way of legislating for it.
tony on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:
> its fetishised as intriguing and fascinating by the likes of butler qnd moore but its actually really dull.

I think Brian Mooore's pretty fed up with as well as everyone else. It's hard to see how things can stay as they are - it's not as if the current rules (or understandings of rules) are of any real benefit to anyone - pretty much everyone infringes one way or another and no-one gains from the stupid amounts of time wasted with resets.
Jimbo W on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

> It can be worse than that, you sometimes see him watching himself on the big screen.

Haven't been to a rugby match that he's reffed yet, mind you I haven't been to a rugby match since the 2009 Heineken cup final... ...need to do less work and get out more!!!
sjminfife - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

> It can be worse than that, you sometimes see him watching himself on the big screen.

To be honest as soon as I saw Mr Walsh was "in charge" I thought "Oh dear".
sjm :-(

Tony the Blade on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

> 6 nations (spoilers)

The bloody Welsh!
Horse on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>
> i was mucking aboutnon youtube the other day watching games from the 70s. thwre were no big hits on the engage but as soon as the ball was in the packs would squeeze and drive.much more stable and true test of pack strength.

This, this is it. None of the sequencing bull, scrum set, scrum engages, scrum steady, ball in straight, hook. A proper contest not the penalty lottery we now have.

In fairness Moore is as pissed off with the current situation as anyone else and he mentioned the shirt thing (see last evenings posts) years back. Butler just tries to wind Moore up.
tony on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to nickyrannoch)
> [...]
>
> This, this is it. None of the sequencing bull, scrum set, scrum engages, scrum steady, ball in straight, hook.

Hook - now there's a novelty concept. That would involve the ball going in to the middle, rather than straight into the 2nd row. That's something else Brian Moore enjoys chuntering about. Then again, he was a hooker.
In reply to balmybaldwin: I, as a Welshman, would like to highlight the fact that England should have won on Saturday. There were a great many factors that biased the Welsh side namely,

1. They played better than the English for longer than the English did,
2. It was a 16th of the Month and so the English were weakened by it.
3. Feng Shui - the stadium was set up to knacker the English. The Qi was all wrong.
4. Wind direction meant that for the vast majority of the game the English had bollock-nip.
5. The Italians spoilt the game the previous week and so the English were upset and didn't want to play as much.
6. The Ref was biased.
7. The English do not like losing so should not be allowed.
8. The sun was in their eyes.
9. The food the night before was probably dodgy.
10. The noisy neighbours the night before meant they didn't get as much sleep.
11. They all had a weak knee.
12. The ball was wet and slippery.
13. The stadium light was poor.
14. They were angry as they couldn't get a ticket for the game for their uncle Jim.
15. It was a long coach ride to the game.
16. Their name is on the trophy loads so they thought they would give someone else the chance.
17. The competition spoke some foreign language so were probably cheating.
18. Wales cheated by scoring more.
19. The uprights were wonky.
20. It is a crap game and the other 5 nations can stick it - the world cup is more important (unless England lose that one too).
andy - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat: Is this some sidesplitting attempt to suggest that England and their supporters are seeking to find excuses for getting hammered on Saturday?

If so - suggest you read a few of the responses upthread - if you're struggling let me paraphrase:

Wales are deserved champions. They played England off the park in every position. England could have played to their best and they'd still have lost. The referee had no influence on the result.

Feel better now?
Jonny2vests - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

21. We weren't ready.
In reply to andy: very magnanimous of you.
wcdave - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: Speaking as a Welshman, and one who has little recollection of Saturday night, can I just say Saturdays game was everything that's brilliant about the 6 Nations.

The whole atmosphere before, during, and after the match was electric. The intensity and ferocity from both teams was unbelievable. Unfortunately for England they met a Welsh team who clicked, and on our day we're a match for anyone. I do think the vastly superior Welsh experience of playing in big game situations played a part. England simply cracked, and Wales took full advantage. England couldn't handle the pressure, or the hostile atmosphere, and it does make me laugh to still read rugby pundits today suggesting a majority of Englishmen forming the Lions party. Really? I can't think of any home nation player, let alone an English one, who'd get in that Welsh starting 15 on Saturday.

As for the scrums, they really are destroying the game. Something certainly needs to be done. The first scrum on Saturday took over 3 minutes to eventually set, and then resulted in a Welsh free kick. I've been watching rugby for 40 odd years, and I've absolutely no idea what the refs are penalising anymore.

Either we go back to the days of get it in and anything goes, or we move more towards the RL uncontested scenario..i just don't know. But it really is ruining the game.
andy - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:
> (In reply to andy) very magnanimous of you.

So what would the correct response be? I'm not sure what people can say other than "the best team by a long way won by a long way" - what would you like people to say? There have been no excuses given (apart from by one or two completely one-eyed wonks on the BBC website, one of whom claims to have counted 107 unpenalised infringements by wales), but still apparently the English are "arrogant" or "whinging".

It's possible to be a "bad winner" as well as a bad loser, y'know.
andy - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to wcdave:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin) it does make me laugh to still read rugby pundits today suggesting a majority of Englishmen forming the Lions party.

Really? Who? Without adding it up I'd reckon about 45-50% of the party should come from Wales and the other half split evenly between the other three nations. Has anyone really suggested that a "majority" should come from England?
Horse on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to wcdave:

Dave, long time no see. Are you able to say "I was there, mun"?

Fair summary, now go and click against those feckers in the Southern Hemisphere it is a burden us English having to do it on our own :-)
coinneach - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

It's an English thing.....................blame culture.

No one is supposed to beat them therefore it's someone else's fault.

See the red card in the Real / Man U match where it wasn't the players fault that his tackle was dangerous.



Should take a leaf out of Scotland's book.................we never blame the ref.



We just blame The English.








For Everything
IainRUK - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach: ahh good old generalisations.. can't beat them..

I've not seen one england fan blame anyone for Saturday. Class performance by Wales, totally deserved.
IainRUK - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to IainRUK: And to compare it to United Real is ludicrous..

One refs call changed a very tight game.. clearly the instrumental point of the tie..

England were humped.. well and truly..
Horse on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat)
>
> Should take a leaf out of Scotland's book.................we never blame the ref.

I'm guessing Craig Joubert is the exception that proves the rule.
>
> We just blame The English.
>
> For Everything

I believe that is true of the entire whinging fringe not just the Northern outpost.
the sheep - on 18 Mar 2013
coinneach - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

Note to self...........................must remember to put wee winky / smiley face things on posts you're likely to read.



ps

The Daily Mash link is also a joke!




:-)
earlsdonwhu - on 18 Mar 2013
Walsh is a shit referee, and he does seem to have a problem with England - but as far as I can see every comment is that Wales would have won whoever was reffing - they were better in every department.

Someone told me today that Walsh has reffed England 21 times and we have never won! May not be correct but my heart sank as soon as I saw him strut out.

Papers reporting that a Welsh prop admitted( to Parling?) to collapsing 6 scrums. As he said iof you get away with it fair play!

As others have said scrum needs sorting badly...ruining the game at the moment. Only push when ball comes in and INSIST on it going in straight. Why they pull up a line out with a slightly crooked feed but not the blatant abuses at scrums is bewildering.

Anyway well done Wales.

Reginald Trubshaw - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Shani:
> And now to the REAL table that matters. ESPN is currently updating the Fantasy Six Nations scorings.....

A second win in 3 years (I think) :-)

Coel Hellier - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

> As others have said scrum needs sorting badly...ruining the game at the moment.

Suggestions:

1) Accept that a team pushed back will pop-up or collapse, so don't penalise it. The team pushing them back gets the benefit of the ball (that, afterall, being the point of a scrum, to compete for the *ball*, not to compete to see who gets penalised by 3 points). [I'm pretty sure that referees used to be far more tolerant about a pushed-back scrum collapsing or going awry, accepting it as inevitable, now they penalise it every time.]

2) If you do need to penalise (e.g. for safety reasons), make it a free kick not a penalty.

3) Insist on a straight put in, thus giving a benefit to a team that can push the others back, so that (1) doesn't negate scrummaging.
ads.ukclimbing.com
coinneach - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Reginald Trubshaw:

You only won because the ref was biased.



Next year I'm going to read the rules



Then you'll be in trouble!
Horse on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

And in other news Saint Brian has been cited:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21834845

coinneach - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

Strange that he has and Michalak hasn't for mugging Hogg!
Horse on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:

Still time (just) the citing officer has 48 hours from full time to do the deed.
nickyrannoch on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

oi!!

we probably have a better record over southern hemisphere teqms than northern over past few years. tonga excepted of course but i blame the fact that the home team always does poorly at pittodrie
Horse on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to nickyrannoch:

Amusingly I notice that the official Scotland site hasn't actually recorded the score from the Tonga game

http://www.scotlandrugbyteam.org/component/option,com_joomleague/func,showResults/p,55/Itemid,100/

Care to remind us?
coinneach - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Horse:

I believe that the ref was English.
Shani - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Reginald Trubshaw:
> (In reply to Shani)
> [...]
>
> A second win in 3 years (I think) :-)

Congratulations Sir.
Mark Bannan - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to Coel Hellier:
> (In reply to earlsdonwhu)
Very well said - all points.
>
> 1) Accept that a team pushed back will pop-up or collapse, so don't penalise it. The team pushing them back gets the benefit of the ball (that, afterall, being the point of a scrum, to compete for the *ball*, not to compete to see who gets penalised by 3 points).

I have a hazy recollection of Ireland scoring a pushover try against Wales in 1990 and I think the Wales scrum either popped up a bit or partly splintered. I was delighted with the try and I would have been incredulous if the ref had blown for a penalty! Can't find it on Youtube - possibly the insignificance of the match (wooden spoon decider) compared to the epic showdown in Murrayfield at about the same time!
IainFP on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach: Completely OT, are you still involved with youth rugby? Will be over at Falcons festival on 7th Apr Tynedale on 21st to scalp some of those big north east clubs ;0)
coinneach - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to IainFP:

My lad plays for Tynedale now as his previous club only did up to U11's.

They have almost as many coaches as players so I just spectate .
IainFP on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to IainFP: Should be interesting;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21853814

Here's hoping we all get to see the outcome.
MJ - on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to IainFP:

For those who are pining for more Rugby...

Ospreys v Newport Dragons, BBC2 Wales, Friday, Kick Off at 1905: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21831853


Ospreys will have 6 of their returning Internationals.
Dragons will have 2 and Lydiate.
coinneach - on 22 Mar 2013
Horse on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to coinneach:

I'd say very much deserved played a blinder throughout. Hope he enjoys is his working holiday this summer.

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