/ Camalot X4

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Tommyads on 13 Feb 2013
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/climb/new-fall-2010-climbing-gear/camalot-x4

70 Dollars is 45, not too bad? Seems to good to be true.

Anyone taking pre-orders for these yet? Will they be late march/early may in the US but way later in the UK?
cyberpunk - on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to Tommyads: Thats a good price.
Lemony - on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to Tommyads: Plus VAT, plus costs of distribution. I'd guess more like 60-65
Tommyads on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to Lemony:
hmm about the same as a C3 then...
Tommyads on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to scarter:
> (In reply to Tommyads) ...the price is each not for four... you can get them for 36 in this country.

I'm sorry what are you on about? You definitely can't as there not out yet...
SteveCarter - on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to Tommyads: ...yeah sorry thought they were C4's...
Tommyads on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to scarter:
I think I understand what you were on about now. Even so, where can you get camalot C4s (not x4s) for 36?
SteveCarter - on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to Tommyads: BD C4....0.3, 0.4 & 0.5 35.10 each....0.75, 1, & 2 36 each.... size 3 is 40.50... but you've got to buy 2 or more(any sizes)
Styx - on 13 Feb 2013
Sorry to disappoint but they're going to quite a lot more than that, you can forget about simple exchange rate conversions when it comes to imports/exports. In the US the X4's will retail for $10 more than the C3 so you can reasonably expect them to be 5-10 more than the C3 RRP which is 65.
snoop6060 - on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to Styx:

They aren't gonna sell very many in the UK for 75 each.
Styx - on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to snoop6060:
> (In reply to Styx)
>
> They aren't gonna sell very many in the UK for 75 each.

I expect not, no. They'll probably settle around the 50-55 mark in the long run. I expect they'll be sell more in the US where climbers tend to be a bit more cam happy and happy to pay a premium for Black Diamond goods (even though they're not made in the US anymore!).
snoop6060 - on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to Styx:

Yep, their price point in the UK has to be around 50 max. I would imagine the UK is their second biggest market outside the US. (Maybe canada?) In any case, the UK will be an important market to them, and they will price accordingly. Nearly 2x the price of a master cam isn't going to wash. People will pay a bit of a premium (People in the UK do love BD cams, me included), but not a ridiculous one.
mike kann - on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to snoop6060: that depends on if they are significantly better than master cams. I'd imagine the will be 60-65 quid... That's pretty much the premium cam price point currently. Personally I don't rate the mastercam as that premium... But maybe that's just me...
Tommyads on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to mike kann:
also not too keen on master cams. I want these but could easily be priced out if i cant get a set deal for 300
AlanLittle - on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to Styx:
> I expect they'll be sell more in the US where climbers tend to be a bit more cam happy

Quite. I've been doing a bit of reading lately with a view to dragging my trad rack kicking & screaming from the 1980s into the 21st century, especially with regard something to replace my set of original forged Friends, some of whose lobes aren't quite as smoothly rounded as they once were.

In the course of researching this I got the general impression that a standard US rack is one set of wires and two sets of cams, whereas a standard UK trad rack is two sets of wires and one set of cams (and I personally wouldn't feel all that comfortable with only doubles of 1 to 4 wires)

The conclusion I reached btw was to order a set of Totem Cams, with a #5 Dragon to round out the top end & a #1 Mastercam to go slightly smaller at the low end (so la la la, I'm not listening to anything about how great the new Black Diamond small cams will be)
nutstory - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to AlanLittle:
> In the course of researching this I got the general impression that a standard US rack is one set of wires and two sets of cams, whereas a standard UK trad rack is two sets of wires and one set of cams. >
A very interesting comment!
jimtitt - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to AlanLittle:
I was climbing with a guy at Red Rock and his rack was 40 cams and no nuts. I felt a bit lost!
mkean - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to jimtitt:
I'm not sure I could get off the ground carrying 40 cams, I took 13 on a route once and regretted it as I felt like I was hauling an extra person!
Jon Wickham - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Tommyads: They'll be 65 each, regardless of size.
AlanLittle - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to jimtitt:

I'm sure the cam-heavy nature of American racks has a genuine basis in the nature of the rock and isn't just materialism run wild.

> I was climbing with a guy at Red Rock and his rack was 40 cams

40 cams is clearly excessive (except maybe for Indian Creek), but I suppose wires in sandstone might not be the best possible idea. I gather Metolius even make special "fat cams" for desert climbing of the vertical mud variety.
ads.ukclimbing.com
jimtitt - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to mkean:
The idea was to make a selection of the more sutable sizes, not carry all of them! If you want to see a resonable sized rack then look at this thread http://www.mountainproject.com/v/rack-envy/107908160__1
Styx - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to AlanLittle:
> (In reply to jimtitt)
>
> I'm sure the cam-heavy nature of American racks has a genuine basis in the nature of the rock and isn't just materialism run wild.

Yeah, it is mostly down to the rock in the major/most well known areas being better suited to cams, there is a small cultural aspect to it as a result but it's not from a materialistic point of view, for once.

Anyway, here's a real rack of cams: http://www.mountainproject.com/images/38/69/107983869_large_fb1dcb.jpg
alooker - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Styx: they all look new!

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