In reply to Mark Kemball:
Hi all!
Firstly I have to say I don't normally get involved in these online debates, I prefer to be out climbing & lost in my own little world but as mark has bought this thread to my attention and I am working on the Sharpnose section of the guide I felt I should ad my feelings before dropping of the radar.
Grades are subjective and our individual strengths and weaknesses are many, what suits one can be impossable for another, they are just to be used as an aid, we will never agree on whats what because their are too many variables..Grades are reached by a general consensus of opinion and UKC seems to provide that via its logbook system.
Climbing at Sharpnose is about stamina and confidence' it can be an intimidating place for many, the landings are unforgiving and the rock is not above suspicion... some of the routes may feel a soft touch if you are fit and they are below your normal climbing grade.
I am happy to change grades if that is the general view,
"The smile" maybe HVS 5a not E1 but I have seen many people puffing and blowing and sitting on the rope at the final head wall having run out of steam.
"Diamond smiles" bold tricky start often damp,with a nasty landing, thereafter pretty juggy and straight forward until the headwall, again if you are pretty fit and confident and use your feet well its all there albeit steep and fingery,once again stamina is the key...how would it feel if i removed that old ring peg? it has already been down graded, personally I think E3 5c is about right but again I will go with the general view
If you want a few routes at SN that are not soft touches to get the blood pumping get on Azreal E4!or Flying finn E4! or Devonian all solid E5s in my opinion.
Culm grades have always been a bit of an oddity, where else do you find E1 4c? but their is good reason for that, the rock or pro is not always good and even when you get pro in it is not always reliable this all has to be taken into account,as an adventure I feel VS for Wreckers slab is still the right grade even though the climbings easy enough.
comparing the culm to tintagel or gowla to granite etc is never gonna cross over as they are all different types of rock and different climbing styles needing different mental or physical approaches,Personally I dont think bosi grades are hard, I think it depends on what you climb on often, granite can be tough if you only climb on it once in a blue moon, it has attitude and is very 3D but it also has solid rock brilliant friction and great pro.
Kafoozalam, I agree with your comments, you are talking my language,I know you have been around a long while and have covered some trad ground, we seem to be on the same page.
Ps just one little niggle, I have to say as a passionate long time trad climber I hate the use of climbing wall/ sport grades used in relation to trad routes what about the pro? what about the fear? E= adventure, its not just a number! cheers all.