/ racking carabiners

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anomm - on 26 Feb 2013
After getting a few more bits if gear i need some biners to rack them on. I've only ever seen anyone use climbing carabiners to rack wires on however why is this? If I'm not taking any falls then can I just use a much cheaper carabiner (obviously not one of those crappy keyring ones but just not climbing strength)

Just a thought, cheers
the power - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to anomm: don't carry owt you carnt use
mkean - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to anomm:
If you are going to carry something surely it makes sense for it to be usable? I've ended up belaying off my racking carabiners on quite a few occasions.
robaj - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to anomm:

Agree. Seems like an unnecessary risk for the sake of 2!
andic - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to anomm:

do whatever you like BUT personally i'd prefer everything on my rack to be rated just in case i need it and what about your partner if you alternate leads or share gear they could end up dead if they end up using that krab.
Kemics - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to robaj:

I picked up some DMM cosmetic seconds. Cost about 2 each and are still legit climbing biners. I've used them before in tight spots
anomm - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to anomm: I suppose it does make sense - will just get some cheap climbing biners i think then
Ian Parsons - on 26 Feb 2013
In reply to anomm:

It's worth going to the trouble - and, if necessary, the expense - of finding a type of krab that suits your hands, does the job well, and isn't too fiddly; the budget approach often seems less of a good idea as you watch the inadvertently liberated contents of said krab tumble into the sea, or you're struggling with uncooperative gear and rapidly pumping out while eyeballing a bomber, but still vacant, nut crack!
August West on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to anomm:

I like to use oval karabiners like the Petzl Owall or the DMM Ultra O Oval Snapgate.
needvert on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to anomm:

You save a bit of money and a bit of weight seemingly.

But that weight you're now carrying isn't generally useful climbing equipment, and that bit of money doesn't mean much when you're a long way off the ground and have unexpectedly used up all your biners.

That said, it would be nice if there was a less fiddly way to rack wires. Multiple wires on a biner are faff. Would be neat if there was some magical way to just get the wire off I wanted, only when I wanted, with a tug.
andic - on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to needvert:

If you are really going for it on a short route you could experiment with racking only the pro you want, in order on your harness, with the QD? I have done this once or twice.
needvert on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to andic:

That's a neat idea. Have a red point I've set my sights on that I was going to plan out my pro for.
The Ex-Engineer - on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to anomm: As regards the bulk of my wires, my racking carabiners (Petzl Spirit Bent Gates) are by far the oldest carabiners I own and pretty much the most expensive I've ever bought.

As Ian says, find something you like and get on with, they are arguably the most important carabiners you will ever buy.

I can also testify to using them for runners and belays on numerous occasions.

However, I rack my smallest micro wires on a small Troll Nano wiregate accessory krab to save weight but that is the exception as they are only occasionally carried as a 4th krab of wires. That said, I started doing that when Prowires at 36g were the lightest krabs in the world, but these day it would make more sense to use something like a Camp Nano or an Edelrid 19g.

I also rack my ice screws on non-load bearing krabs but that is fairly standard and the modern purpose designed clippers are MORE expensive than normal krabs, not less.
The Ex-Engineer - on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to needvert: A rather good trad climber I've climbed with, sometimes racks a selection of wires, one each on perhaps half her quickdraws when she's leading E5s and has a good idea of what the pro is likely to be.

It seems to work for her.
TRip - on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
> (In reply to anomm) As regards the bulk of my wires, my racking carabiners (Petzl Spirit Bent Gates) are by far the oldest carabiners I own and pretty much the most expensive I've ever bought.
>
> As Ian says, find something you like and get on with, they are arguably the most important carabiners you will ever buy.
>
> I can also testify to using them for runners and belays on numerous occasions.

I'll go with all of this as sound advice.

I used oval wires but would happily use a variety of other Karabiners. DMM Specre2 are very good option, as they have a wide base, are quite lightweight, available in 7 different colours and currently very good value for money: http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Rock-Climbing-Equipment/Karabiners/Standard-Karabiners/Spectre...

I also think it is a good idea to have more krabs with less wires on as they're easier to handle. Four krabs with 6 wires each on is much less likely to get tangled than 3 krabs with 8 wires each on.

My normally wire rack is:
Krab 1: Doubles of rocks 1-3
Krab 2: Double of rock 4-6
Krab 3: Doubles of rock 7 and 8, plus a single 9 and 10.

I then have a further krab of 8 brass micros that get taken on harder things.

At particually wire intensive venues/routes (Pembroke, Millstone, Left Wall) I'll add an additional krabs of wires in sizes 3-7.

>
> However, I rack my smallest micro wires on a small Troll Nano wiregate accessory krab to save weight but that is the exception as they are only occasionally carried as a 4th krab of wires. That said, I started doing that when Prowires at 36g were the lightest krabs in the world, but these day it would make more sense to use something like a Camp Nano or an Edelrid 19g.

This is also sound advice except the choice of karabiner. I would speculate that the poster has never held an Edelrid 19 in the flesh. They are far too small and fiddily to use as as a racking krab. The only use I could have for one on my rack is for things like racking my nutkey, prussiks, guidebook holder and trainers. At present however I just use old, (found) snap gates for this job so I can abseil off them if needs be.

The Camp Nano or Metoluis Mini would be good choice of krab for racking micros.

> I also rack my ice screws on non-load bearing krabs but that is fairly standard and the modern purpose designed clippers are MORE expensive than normal krabs, not less.

I did this for a while, but these days I prefer to rack them on large wire gates like Oval wires. I don't see the point in carrying karabiners that aren't fully rated as you can't use them for anything else (building belays, abseiling off).

I might use plastic krabs for ice cragging, but I wouldn't bother in scotland or the alps.

HTH

Palmer - on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to anomm:
Oval wire gate crabs without a shorouded nose are my choice for racking wires. the non- shrouded nose can stop wires tumbling off the crab if your having a bit of a moment. but really its down to personal choice try a few and see what works for you.
The Ex-Engineer - on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to TRip:
> They [Edelrid 19s] are far too small and fiddily to use as as a racking krab.

They are much exactly the same size as the krab my micros are currently on.

> The Camp Nano or Metoluis Mini would be good choice of krab for racking micros.

The Nano is a very good shape for racking - probably better than both the Edelrid 19 and the Metolius Mini.
The Ex-Engineer - on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to TRip:
> I also think it is a good idea to have more krabs with less wires on as they're easier to handle. Four krabs with 6 wires each on is much less likely to get tangled than 3 krabs with 8 wires each on.

Excellent point.

However you can comfortably fit more small wires on a krab than large wires. I try not to carry more than 6 large wires on a krab however I might still carry 8-9 small wires.
TRip - on 28 Feb 2013
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
> (In reply to TRip)
> [...]
>
> Excellent point.
>
> However you can comfortably fit more small wires on a krab than large wires. I try not to carry more than 6 large wires on a krab however I might still carry 8-9 small wires.

You can if you have large enough karabiners with broard bases.

When I used to be super keen or carry loadsa of wires I had 14 wires on my smallest krab, 9 wires on my mid sized krab and 7 on my large wires krab.

These days I would rather carry less wires over four krabs as standard. I'll add a 5th krab of mid sizes if it looks like I'm going to need them.

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