/ DMM Fly vs BD Viper Help me choose
The DMM Fly and BD Viper seem to be most highly regarded tools. But which is right for me? Any others to consider?
Thanks for any advice.
Personally I don't see many / any advantages to the Fly over the Viper. I take it you'd be looking at the new Flys with the hand rest with view to using lanyards over old school leashes?
That said at grade III and under I don't think the differences between the new flys and vipers are going to be that profound.
Sounds like eminently sensible advice. Thanks Mike.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
> Personally I don't see many / any advantages to the Fly over the Viper. I take it you'd be looking at the new Flys with the hand rest with view to using lanyards over old school leashes?
Yes, that was what I had in mind.
Plenty of early votes for the Viper. Is the curved shaft of the Viper (compared to the Fly) a liability (or advantage) when plunging the spike traversing steep terrain, or when daggering?
Should the OP consider wether the picks are "T" rated or "B" rated?
> Should the OP consider wether the picks are "T" rated or "B" rated?
I was expecting to go for T-rated
>"expecting to go for T-rated"
I could be wrong but I had thought Vipers came with "B" rated picks as standard and Flys "T" rated.
> >"expecting to go for T-rated"
> I could be wrong but I had thought Vipers came with "B" rated picks as standard and Flys "T" rated.
You are correct: the Vipers come with B-rated as standard but you can upgrade when you make the purchase.
They're also pretty frickin' tough B rated picks.
I would go into a shope which stocks both and give them a swing with your gloves on, so you can check handles out and see how they feel. Both are not ideal for plunging due to hand rest.
If you go for the vipers with b rated picks you'll be fine unless un get into mixed climbing in a big way.
I've used the old Flys and currently have the Vipers, comfortable on IIIs and climbed a couple of IVs.
Both axes are great axes and whichever you choose I doubt you would be dissapointed. The 2 reasons I prefer the Viper are, they are more comfortable to hold on the head when walking with (the Flys lump was rather uncomfortable) and the Vipers are easier to use leashless with the trigrests (not an issue with new Fly design).
Vipers are good tools but i personally favour the new fly's
The new DMM axe which is one up from a fly has a nice swing too. Not a fan of Flys - at all.
You had a swing of the Petzl Quark ?
i own the old quarks and believe it or nor find vipers swing and stick better in ice.
Camp woodpecker, Simond piranhas, vertige, dads old terror, grey and now one Orange viper, quarks and brief goes on a few more.
Agreed, very personal, for lots of reasons - arm length, strength, grip, hand size, what you used before etc etc.
Though having used Vertiges for years, and having climbed at least several pitches of steep ice with them, Pulsars, Quasars, Vipers, Cobras (old), Cobras (new), Predators and a few others, I can say with some certainty that Vertiges would not be my pick of that lot! ;-)
On the other hand, original Vipers felt better in the hand from the word go than any tool I've ever tried.
I reckon UKC should arrange for TobyA to do a gear review where he climbs the same pitch of ice with three or four different vintage tools - Terrordactyls, Vertiges, Pulsars and Nomics. Photos or it didn't happen - video even better. Toby?
I mostly used the later vertige which was better balanced than the original knuckle masher
Drop a chacal / Barracuda combo in that mix.
Not sure if the new flys are as curved.
Haven't found the curve an issue plunging or using the hammer but obviously a straight shaft would do those jobs better.
Got mind from needlesports who sell them in a variety of guises including t rated picks.
Get the Vipers from Needlesports in the 'Scottish mixed' flavour. You can't go wrong.
I'll promise to tag along and shoot pics + video.
Anyhow, I guess my point is different tools are balanced differently, and you may find that you enjoy using one far more than another. So go to a shop and scare some fellow customers by swinging axes about.
Swing them and see! But I have Vipers... Having upgraded from Flys as soon as I started venturing on to IVs. Flys are great for mountaineering type routes, but I'd not trade my Vipers back for them!
Whatever you end up with, enjoy! :)
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