/ Recommend me a first VS at Stanage Popular/ Burbage North

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blackreaver - on 05 Mar 2013
As per the title. I'm heading out to Sheffield/ The Peaks at the weekend for some trad and would like to have a crack (pun not intended) at my first VS.

Cheers
BR
Roberttaylor - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver: Try Hargreaves Original or Mississippi Buttress Direct. Don't try Hell Crack.
alooker - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver: Paradise Wall, Right Twin Crack and Via Media at Stanage
Fredt on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver:

Mississippi Buttress Direct is intimidating but easy for the grade.
Straight Crack is pretty easy for VS.
Hargreave's Original is easy (crux is getting of the ground) but rounded.
Central Trinity is typical Stanage VS.
Gargoyle Buttress is easy for a VS.

These are all easy for VS, because I can do them and I can't do many others there.
Offwidth - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Fredt:

MBD isn't especially easy.
Hargreaves is far from easy for a first timer at Stanage at VS and without multiples of mid-large cams can be serious as well.
Central Trinity is typical in what sense?? I'd say that one is easy.
Gargoye as shown in the current definitive finishing right up the face is possibly one of the hardest VS climbs on the popular end. It's described as HS if you finish on the ridge.

Someone above said dont try Hell Crack, well for a visitor who can jam I'd say its a good choice.

Paradise Wall is also HS in the definitive.

Straight Crack is probably the best starter.
rurp - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver:
greeny crack at burbage north was looking good and not green today

amazon crack at burbage looked good too.

Inverted V on stange is awesome. Great line and a classic with good gear and some rests, first 10 ft a bit polished but okay if you have a bouldering mat.

Good luck.
In reply to blackreaver: What sort of climbing do you like? Have you got a fill rack of cams?
Tamati - on 05 Mar 2013
Amazon Crack at Burbage north.
Muel - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver: Possibly High Neb Buttress? I'm planning on doing it for my first VS.
DDDD - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Muel:

High Neb Buttress is run out and a bit scary.

Perhaps 20ft Crack at Apparent North for an intro to VS - short and well protected.
blackreaver - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
I don't like slopers, don't mind jams and crimps.
I have 1.5, 2.5, 3, 3.5 friends, full set of nuts, and 5 med-large hexes.

Cheers,
BR
Chris the Tall - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver:
Heather Wall or Via Media would be my choice, but that may be because they were the first two routes I lead at Stanage and now solo them every time I go there.

If you end up at the Plantation do Paradise wall. It's only HS, but don't let that sway you
mhawk - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: As I remember, via media feels pretty secure, nice moves and encouraging gear.
Stig - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver: My recommendations at SP:

Heather Wall - brilliant and only HS really
Gargoyle Buttress - fairly soft, not very slopy
Via Media - probably leave the cams behind
Central Trinity.

Don't miss Manchester Buttress, Christmas Crack and April Crack

MBD is one of the hardest VSs at the popular end, HNB is one of the harder ones at Stanage.
In reply to blackreaver: Give HNB and Hargreaves a miss then. Heather Wall, Via Media, The Real 20'Crack, Mississippi Buttress Direct, Central Trinity are all worth a pop and are all well-protected. I don't like Inverted V.
andic - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver:

Stannage: via media is nice, Heather wall is very easy if you don't faff around with your gear too much, I like Hargreaves but it would be a bit daunting with no cams, Inaccessible crack near High neb is a great route too.

I think I would head over to Crow Chin area there are loads of HS/VS wall climbs on there and you can have a bash at the High neb ticks on the way back?


Burbage: Rose flake is nice.
victim of mathematics - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver:

Central Trinity is a good call shout. Via Media is a bit short and sharp, but it's all there and well protected. Inverted V usually comes up on these sort of threads too. It's low in the grade (ie it's actually HS) but it's a bit underwhelming.
Ciderslider - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver: Most all of the old favourites have already been mentioned here but for what it's worth :

Steer well clear of Hargreaves Original ! Whilst it's a superb route with no major difficulty it's not the easiest route to protect for a newcomer to the grade (take it from one who made that mistake - my minimal gear was so crap it was a very scary solo !).
MBD is a great route with loads of big jugs and good gear and a confident approach is required (so as long as you are happy hanging off jugs it's good).
Central trinity is really good (if you take cams it makes the gear placement a doddle and reduces the stress).
Paradise wall is now HS but if you are up that end it's a good route (used to be VS).
Don't go anywhere near Hell Crack - it's got a tough start and if your jamming isn't good you risk a ground fall.
Inverted V is really nice (and soft at VS) you can climb it using no footwork whatsoever (ask Ciderspider who did it as his first VS lead and hauled his way up on his arms!!!!)

The best first VS is without doubt HEATHER WALL (at Stanage) it's a path at VS and has loads of gear.
There is a slightly awkward polished foothold to start but after that it's fine.
Also steer clear of Ellis's Eliminate (it's a great route but can be strenuous to protect).

Good luck and enjoy - be interesting to know how you get on.
victim of mathematics - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

How can you groundfall off a jamming crack without some epic failure on the part of the leader? You can place gear basically wherever you want...
Owen W-G - on 06 Mar 2013
Heather Wall, another vote
victim of mathematics - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to Owen W-G:

Heather Wall does require a slightly positive approach. If you're unsure of yourself then it's not really a good place to hang around for too long. If you're confident, then it's dead easy for VS, but if you like to take your time over moves, or aren't good at placing gear fairly quickly, then it could easily becoming quite a harassing experience.
Pagan - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to victim of mathematics:

Yeah, I wondered that too. Maybe it's because the only way anyone would struggle to jam up Hell Crack would be if they had no hands (although even then it's probably piss), so placing gear would also be tricky.
Ciderslider - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to victim of mathematics: Slightly dramatic granted,but put yourself in the shoes of someone who is new to the grade. They step up to Hell Crack, do the first couple of easy moves and place an early runner before the fun starts. Then they get stuck into that horrid little strength sapping jamming section, almost get it and run out of juice - a fall from that point would potentially be a desmond (even if the one piece of gear holds).
I was only trying to be helpful as I certainly wouldn't have wanted to have done that as my first VS
Ciderslider - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: It's one of those routes that I really enjoyed but would be in no hurry to do again.
Also my mate followed me up most all of the VS's mentioned with no problem (and then lead his own first VS) but had a complete mare on Hell Crack and spent a good deal of time on the rope (and he's much stronger than the average climber).
Ciderslider - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to victim of mathematics: It's total piss and should be HS (if you compare it with some of the VS's at Swanage).
Ciderslider - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to Pagan: Maybe my jammings a bit shite then.
Ciderslider - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to Pagan: Headjamming all the way, placing gear with your teeth like a pirate aaaahhhh !
pauldr - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver:

Ellis's Eliminate stanage.. Bomber gear and exposed .. Fantastic route
Blue Straggler - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver:

Thinking outside the box a bit...Count's Crack.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=10022

Though I have only seconded it...
Offwidth - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Another brute best avoided by newbies albeit a great climb.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Offwidth - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Well said on your contributions to that list. I think many people have forgotten what its like to start on Stanage VS climbing.
Blue Straggler - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to Offwidth:

Fair comment. I was kind of thinking "brutal, but obvious hauling, making for good value" but yes if they end up a bit spent from strenuous effort and it's their first at the grade, you are right.

I'll go with Via Media.
Offwidth - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to Offwidth:

Some Burb North suggestions: Greeny is OK as is Hollyash Crack (gear and holds outside of the wide crack); Leaning Wall direct is easy as well. Old faves like Amazon, Brookes, Mutiny and are all HS in the definitive. Some Burb North starred routes are hard and some obscurities are desperate and bold... beware!
mrginna on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver: Hargreaves original is a bit hard to protect without a lot of big cams....

I would suggest inverted v at Stanage... Flipping brilliant route with more gear than you can shake a stick at with two massive threads towards the top for the traverse out on to the face :-) what more could you want...
Ciderslider - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to mrginna: Just watch out for potential massive rope drag as you move around to the right under the overhang.
Mark Bannan - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> (In reply to blackreaver)

> Thinking outside the box a bit...Count's Crack.

This is hard for grade - even the voting on UKC (which I agree with!) suggests that. Central Trinity is much easier.

> Though I have only seconded it...

I don't wish to be cruel, but the OP was wanting advice on leading it. I can confirm that I found it difficult to fiddle in a cam while hanging from an overhanging hand jam crack!

Mark Bannan - on 06 Mar 2013
Central Trinity is much easier.

Oh, and also Inverted V!

CurlyStevo - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to Mark Bannan:
I find central trinity quite tricky, it's quite sustained and one of the most polished VS's I've climbed on grit.
deepsoup - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to pauldr:
> Ellis's Eliminate stanage.. Bomber gear and exposed .. Fantastic route

Saul's Arete (the 'traditional' approach to the arete above Archangel) is quite similar, and even better imo.
blackreaver - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver: Wow, I didn't expect that many replies - thanks!
I think I'm going to go for Heather Wall and/ or Via Media after warming up on Christmas Crack/ April Crack.
If I have time, I'll have a go at Inverted V and 20' crack.

Hoping for good weather this weekend :)
Cheers
BR
Blue Straggler - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to Mark Bannan:
>
> I don't wish to be cruel, but the OP was wanting advice on leading it. I can confirm that I found it difficult to fiddle in a cam while hanging from an overhanging hand jam crack!

Not cruel at all! Fair comment. The context was that I seconded a leader who was at about my level at the time and he didn't seem to have many problems with it (maybe he ran out that bit, and we can judge him harshly for doing so!). On second I always TRY to consider "could I have led this" and I like to think I am "objective" about it. Maybe I need to go up and put my money where my mouth is! :-)

Blue Straggler - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver:

FWIW I did Inverted V a couple of years ago, with a decent number of VS routes under my belt; didn't find it scary or "hard" but a bit awkward clattering my (helmeted) head along the roof of the "birdcage" or whatever they call it.
Blue Straggler - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to Offwidth:
> Hollyash Crack (gear and holds outside of the wide crack)

I onsighted that easily a few years back and scoffed at people who said it was hard to protect...then at the start of this year I got terrified and stuck, unable to progress due to a bit of wet rock, and got lowered off on a sketchy little cam in a horizontal notch after trying three times to back it up and seeing the back-up rip out under light tension :-)

So, er, yeah needs to be dry
Babika - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver:
Inverted V
Ramblin dave - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver:
> (In reply to blackreaver) Wow, I didn't expect that many replies - thanks!
> I think I'm going to go for Heather Wall and/ or Via Media after warming up on Christmas Crack/ April Crack.
> If I have time, I'll have a go at Inverted V and 20' crack.

My pet theory (based on almost no evidence) is that you should probably warm up on a couple of classic severes so you feel like you're climbing really well and confidently. If you warm up on something that's at your current grade then you risk knocking your confidence when it turns out not to be a walk in the park. You've probably not digging as deep as you could on HS, but it might feel like you are at the time, if you see what I mean. I'm at about the same level and in about the same boat as you, but I've kind of found that this is how I've tended to push my grade...



YMMV, though.
blackreaver - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave: The plan was to warm up on some easier routes like Flying Buttress and then progress to Christmas/ April Crack, before pushing the VS :)

Thanks for your advice.

BR
Monk - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver:
> (In reply to Ramblin dave) The plan was to warm up on some easier routes like Flying Buttress and then progress to Christmas/ April Crack, before pushing the VS :)
>

It's a long time since I did Christmas Crack for the first time, but I found it about the same difficulty as Inverted V. April Crack might be harder... (it's not, but many people I have climbed it with have found it tricky).

I also use the same approach as Ramblin Dave when pushing my grade - things at my current level often feel too hard with the knowledge that you are about to try something harder, and I get a bit freaked for the harder lead.

Mark Bannan - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> (In reply to Mark Bannan)
> [...]
>
> Not cruel at all! Fair comment. The context was that I seconded a leader who was at about my level at the time and he didn't seem to have many problems with it (maybe he ran out that bit...............

Cheers, Mate. Your mate was probably braver than I - I actually tried placing a size 11 hex first, but it wouldn't fit! Luckily my No. 4 Camalot did - I was absolutely pumped stupid when I got to the top! Hoever, even allowing for my faffing with gear selection, I definitely found it hard for the grade. The gear is fine though and it is a very good route - go for it!

M ;-]

teflonpete - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver:
> (In reply to Ramblin dave) The plan was to warm up on some easier routes like Flying Buttress and then progress to Christmas/ April Crack, before pushing the VS :)


Purely my opinion, and others will differ, but FB has got a horribly polished bit in the middle and whatever you do, DON'T do Crack and corner (S)as a warm up.

I'm not a huge fan of Via media but Heather Wall and Central Trinity are both good routes with good gear. Personally, if you can jam and bridge a bit then Hell crack is worth a go if your ego isn't going to be too badly bruised by failure. It's certainly protectable with overhead gear off your rack.

Don't miss out on Manchester Buttress or Christmas Crack at HS, both lovely climbs.

You could consider maybe going to Froggatt, warm up on Sunset Crack at HS and then have a go at Hawks Nest Crack at VS, great finish on it if you go over the flake rather than up the corner at the top.
Paul Hy - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to teflonpete: i'd say Gargoyle Buttress at Stanage or Amazon Crack at Burbage North.
Offwidth - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to Paul Hy:

Please read the thread. GB is tough VS by the new line AC is HS.
dr_botnik - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver: I find stanage quite an intimidating crag. I'd led a VS or two when I turned up there and got spanked on some of the severes/hard severes.

As for my recomendation; my favourite VS experience was on louisiana rib (but its quite a balancy move above gear, one to go for when you have a bit of confidence)

My other top climbs are probably christmas crack/april crack (but the latter is currently quite green), heather wall (VS, can be pumpy if you dont just go for it), Robin hoods right hand buttress direct (lots of exposure, only HS but very good) and if you like the balancy stand up on rounded breaks style of this, Hargreaves Original is a good choice for you, if the thought of it sends you gibbering and elvis legging, well, probs best to avoid.

I'd definatly recomend Black Hawk Hell crack at S 4a as a good warm up, good exposure and bomber threads towards the top, and it puts you in the same bay as Castle Crack, a solid HS that gets you the VS tick for the arete finish (which isn't really that much harder).

I'd definately recommend manchester buttress and beech tree (birch tree) wall, both at HS, and both very worthwhile.

All in all, via media sounds like a good bet, but to be honest, the BMC guidebook will point you towards everything worthwhile, anything starred, whether its S, HS or VS is usually worth doing. Pick something in the sun and not too green or damp, and have fun. But yeh, avoid crack and corner. And probably FBD. quite polished and the latter is best done later in the day when the sun has reached it.
deacondeacon - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to dr_botnik:
And probably FBD. quite polished and the latter is best done later in the day when the sun has reached it.

And its an E1 ;)

dr_botnik - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to deacondeacon: Recommending FBD, Counts crack, or Fern Crack is BAD ADVICE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBI4TSbihrE
Blue Straggler - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to dr_botnik:

Count's Crack was me and I retracted the recommendation! :-)
Paul Hy - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver: Cosmic Crack on High Neb is another one 2 go at.
Ciderslider - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to blackreaver: Did you go in the end (I know the weather was a bit poo) if so how did you get on ?

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