/ LloydsTSB debit card fraud.

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Phil Payne - on 10 Mar 2013
What do you think my chances are of getting my money back?

I was just online last night checking to see if Samsung have finally given me my 50 cashback from before Christmas when I realised that there was a discrepancy of 165 between the account balance and available funds.

This is an account that I don't use very often and I was certain that nothing was due to come out of it.

I phoned the customer support up this morning and asked them if they can tell me where this money is going and if they can stop it. It turns out that it's for 27 seperate mobile phone top-ups with O2. I haven't got and have never had an O2 mobile phone and I've been out of the country for a while, so clearly these are made by me.

The man at customer support told me that he wasn't able to stop the money from leaving my account, wasn't able to put a total block on the account to prevent further transactions and that I would have to wait for the funds to clear and then take it up with the fraud department.

He then used the opportunity to try and sell me a credit card, because I would be better protected from fraud with one because it's not my money if something like this happens in the future! What sort of crap customer service is this?

Anyone else had this happen to them with a debit card? What are the chances of me getting my money back? The impression that I got was that they don't care, because it's my money, but they would really care about it if it was a credit card, because that would be their money.

AAAAARRRRGGHHH! So angry right now!
Danzig on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Phil Payne:
Had a similar issue a couple of years back, they (Lloyds) re-issued new cards and refunded all monies (400ish)-let the fraud dept know ASAP.
adam11 - on 10 Mar 2013
Lloyds/TSB 'lost' nearly 20k from an account that I had Power of Atourney over, owing to a fraudulent hacker. I reported this on a Sunday via the phone and the money was refunded by the end of business on the Monday. On the Tuesday, I closed all the accounts with them and stuck it into an account with my own Bank.
mypyrex - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Danzig:
> (In reply to Phil Payne)
> Had a similar issue a couple of years back, they (Lloyds) re-issued new cards and refunded all monies (400ish)-let the fraud dept know ASAP.

Ditto with my Natwest card a few years ago. Phone top ups to about 100. Went straight to bank with print outs etc. They blocked the card, issued a new one and refunded the money all very promptly.
Phil Payne - on 10 Mar 2013


That's good to know. By the way the guy on the phone was talking to me today it was all sounding a little ominous and I was worried that I might never see my money again.
mypyrex - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Phil Payne:
>
>
> That's good to know. By the way the guy on the phone was talking to me today it was all sounding a little ominous and I was worried that I might never see my money again.

Ultimately bad publicity(for the bank) is your friend.

Mike C on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Phil Payne:
It sounds to me like O2 have earmarked the funds, rather than actually taken it yet. Once they have debited it (if they do) contact the bank & ask for the debit card disputes number, talk to them. If you are able to go into a branch they will have a contact number that gets answered much quicker than the number you can use. You'll get the money back no problem. To be sure it doesn't happen again you may want to get a new debit card issued.
Unfortunately the bank can't do anything until the account is actually debited. If you contact O2 they may be able to remove the earmarks to make the funds available again.
Hth. M.
pyro2312 - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Phil Payne: Talk to the fraud department, I had very similar happen to me on a Lloyds debit card (some of the transactions were O2 top-ups) and the fraud department put the money back on my account and sent me a new card. They should be able to put a block on the card, sounds like the customer support guy was talking rubbish.
Phil Payne - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to pyro2312:

I did actually phone the fraud department today, but by the time I went through the automated switchboard and actually got to speak to anyone, I'm not sure which department I ended up talking to. I'm out of the country at the moment, so no chance of going into the branch.

What annoys me about this is that last year I tried to put 10 into an online betting account so that I could make my annual bet on the grand national and they put a block on my card and called me immediately because they considered it a suspicious transaction. Apparently 27 payments to O2 on the same day, having never made a payment to O2 before, isn't suspicious though???
puppythedog on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Phil Payne: Going into the branch is usually less helpful than ringing the customer services these days. MrsTheDog used to work as a customer service person in a branch but she says for things like this telephone them.
Mike C on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Phil Payne:
> (In reply to pyro2312)
>
> Apparently 27 payments to O2 on the same day, having never made a payment to O2 before, isn't suspicious though???

The problem here lies in that you haven't actually made any payments yet (from I understand from your OP). Blocking your debit card will prevent any further attempts to debit your account, but not stop these if they actually take the money. Have you tried speaking to O2 yet? They will probably take attempted fraud quite seriously too.
puppythedog on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Phil Payne: Also kick up enough fuss on the phone and they will be kind I'm sure.
In reply to Phil Payne: I've had this sort of thing happen 3 times and Lloyds have sorted it out with no problem at all.
David Riley - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Phil Payne:

A motor insurance company kept my tsb card details from the previous year and helped themselves to the renewal money. The car had already been insured elsewhere because of a massive increase. The bank could not stop it, although it was only pending, and I ended up paying a months rip off insurance plus admin charge for nothing. Silly mistake using the debit card.
Jim Fraser - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Phil Payne:

The two central truths of modern justice in all UK jurisdictions.

1. NUMBERS
Numbers that can be used to supposedly prove to politicians that police and prosecutor are earning their salaries are more important than public safety and the security of your property. That is why mischief is now called anti-social behaviour and criminalised. That is why drivers breaking the speed limit is a higher priority than crimes of dishonesty even though police figures collated by the DfT do not support the position on speeding.

2. CITIES AND COMPUTERS
You cannot properly police either of these so nobody even bothers anymore. Good coppers flee to the shires so they do proper police work. Number crunchers, pension counters, nutters and fraudsters concentrate in the large conurbations where they can get lost in the noise and never found out. Most credit card fraudsters are allowed to just get on with it because neither the banks not the police are up to the task.
itsThere on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Danzig: same here, but halifax told me. Turns out the many recorded messages asking to confirm my details over a weekend were them. They cancelled all the charges 500+. The money was in limbo, so when it was cleared, it would go back into my account. I had a few days with no money.
Neil Williams - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Phil Payne:

I use a credit card in preference to a debit card for precisely that reason. Also, if you are hit by fraud, you just lose that card while it is investigated, not your whole account with direct debits to bounce etc.

While it sounds unhelpful, IMO he is right.

Neil
off-duty - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Jim Fraser:
> (In reply to Phil Payne)
>
> The two central truths of modern justice in all UK jurisdictions.
>
> 1. NUMBERS
> Numbers that can be used to supposedly prove to politicians that police and prosecutor are earning their salaries are more important than public safety and the security of your property. That is why mischief is now called anti-social behaviour and criminalised. That is why drivers breaking the speed limit is a higher priority than crimes of dishonesty even though police figures collated by the DfT do not support the position on speeding.
>

I won't deny that numbers are the bane of policing - but largely due to a desperate pursuit to quantify and try to improve performance. If only it was as simple as to suggest that antisocial behaviour was just "mischief" - tell that to Fiona Pilkington.
As for putting a higher priority on drivers speeding than victims of theft, robbery and burglary - that is nonsense. A glance at the wholescale slashing of traffic departments and their focus now on intelligence-led and ANPR type operations would tell you that.

> 2. CITIES AND COMPUTERS
> You cannot properly police either of these so nobody even bothers anymore. Good coppers flee to the shires so they do proper police work. Number crunchers, pension counters, nutters and fraudsters concentrate in the large conurbations where they can get lost in the noise and never found out. Most credit card fraudsters are allowed to just get on with it because neither the banks not the police are up to the task.

I agree fraud is a really hard area for police. That is not due to the calibre of the officers investigating, it is due to the constraints and difficulties of having to gather evidence suitable for production at court to prove the commission of the offence and the guilt of the offender. When that can involve transient computer records, numerous production orders from banks and tracing suspects who whilst in receipt of the proceeds of fraud might be several steps removed from those committing it.
Even a simple fraud can be a lengthy and protracted investigation which if it is resolved usually results in a derisory sentence and often none of the proceeds can be recovered for the victim, or the victim has already been refunded by the bank - who then become the victim and very often don't wish to assist.

As for not being able to police the cities - where are you getting these ideas from?
Jim Fraser - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to off-duty:
> (In reply to Jim Fraser)
> [...]
>
> ... where are you getting these ideas from?


Coppers.
off-duty - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to Jim Fraser:

Speaking as a cop who does police a major city, we are capable of it.

There is a definite risk in listening to the Olympic standard bitching of cops.
An example appears to be your blaming of cops for not being able to investigate fraud when the sticking points are legal procedures and evidential requirements.

It is undoubtedly busier in a city than a shire - I dealt with more in my probation than some might do in a career.
I know people who have moved to other forces and areas in order to enjoy a slower pace of life. It doesn't mean that the police can't cope in the city - though sometimes it does indicate that the individual can't.

There are a lot of problems within the police largely of our own making - performance culture, internal empire building and third-hand inappropriate "management techniques" (to name just a few....) but I don't recognise your criticisms as reflecting reality

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