/ Rope solo lead climbing with Cinch

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TeddyKGB - on 10 Mar 2013
Hello, what do you think about this setting? I don't know if I can put the link because I am a new user, but if you search in youtube the keywords "rope solo lead cinch" I am the third, mi nickname is "Teddy KGB" in youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-bDx5aMDwY

I wish you enjoy it and have some ideas to discuss.

Thank you very much
TeddyKGB - on 10 Mar 2013
I'm working on a translation.
If anyone knows Spanish, and wants to do it, it would be a very big favor.
regards
andy_e on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to TeddyKGB:

Looks like a pretty decent system.

I've used a similar set up before, although I prefer to use a mallion to attach the cinch to my belay loop. A bit of elastic over the shoulder can work pretty well to keep things at the right length and to let the rope feed smoothly. I would be interested to see some fall tests, (perhaps done with a top rope back up!).

Good idea with the back up screwgates clove hitched to the rope, although I would suggest there should be a few more closer together for the start of the rope, you have a potential for a big ground fall if the cinch doesn't lock. Also, avoid ropes that are too skinny!

PS, well done with that unusual camera angle, it is better than a helmet mounted view.
jimtitt - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to TeddyKGB:
Donīt fall upside down.
TeddyKGB - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to jimtitt:
Every 10m or about, I make a clove hitch knot for security.
Mitch V8S on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to TeddyKGB:
I do this with a Gri Gri, but don't put the rope over the shoulder or in a ruck sak. Placeing pro on lead. You need to pull enough rope out to make any moves .
If you are going to put a overhand Knot in the Rope. This needs to be on the live rope and will need untying when it gets to you. So can be awkward.
I usually use a Steel crab as this could be the weakest bit providing the Gri Gri locks off and your trad is good.
obi-wan nick b - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to TeddyKGB: by putting in a clove hitch every 10m don't you increase the fall factor as there is effectively a shorter distance of rope out; which would put more strain on the system (and you) in the event of a fall.
Could you let me have some info on what you used to keep the camera in place please? Thanks
Sir Stefan - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to TeddyKGB:

Nice setup, could be done with a grigri too. No need to blurr your face...
willworkforfoodjnr - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to obi-wan nick b:
> (In reply to TeddyKGB) by putting in a clove hitch every 10m don't you increase the fall factor as there is effectively a shorter distance of rope out; which would put more strain on the system (and you) in the event of a fall.

The backups are on the 'dead' end of the rope, so will not be a part of the system at all unless the belay device doesn't lock
obi-wan nick b - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to willworkforfoodjnr: I thought that the dead rope was in the rucksack? I thought the clove hitches were on the quickdraws hence he fiddles with some of them on the way down so that he can pull the rope down after?
David Coley - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to TeddyKGB: I do much the same thing but using a Eddy.
willworkforfoodjnr - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to obi-wan nick b:
> (In reply to willworkforfoodjnr) I thought the clove hitches were on the quickdraws hence he fiddles with some of them on the way down so that he can pull the rope down after?

Sorry - my bad. Doing that on the quickdraws sinply stops the rope feeding through the device once there is enough weight on the rope and zipping off below you towards the anchor (a pretty scary moment) - you can do something a bit better (although more fiddly) with a prussik and a rubber band.

willworkforfoodjnr - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to David Coley: I use the eddy too, works really well, but I tend not to load the dead rope in the rucsac - it just gets stacked at the belay which allows better auto feeding, unless there is a real possibility of it getting stuck as you feed it up to you.
David Coley - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to willworkforfoodjnr:

I've tried both.

Out of interest, do you tie into the end of the rope as well? (This means there are three strands going up or down the cliff.)
willworkforfoodjnr - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to David Coley: Nope, but I do clove hitch a loop of the dead rope to my belay loop (moved as the loop gets too small), so you actually have 4 strands going down! Its nowhere near as confusing as you think it will be once you've figured out which rope to clip to. YMMV, YerGonnaDie etc etc.

TBH the hardest part of rope soloing in the UK seems to be finding decent anchors for an upward pull - learning when to link pitches is probably the key.
TeddyKGB - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to talon_guy:

I thought too use a maillon to attach the cinch, is a good idea, but am really quiet with a security carabiner, I employ rubber band to fixe in the harness, the same I use to catch the rope to the quickdraws, the rubber band is enough hard to support the weight of the rope, but not an eventual fall. I made some fall test, 2 meters falling more or less, all made ok with a top rope back up for security. Still no fall only with leading rope solo, but I was nearer in a 6b onsighted hehehehe, am really confident with this setup.

Note*The sling to the pivot hole of the cinch is a bit elastic.

The rubber band is an inner tube of a bicycle.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2579/capturadepantalla201303p.png

-The backup clove hitched is the worst of this setup, is for this I put every 10m, I know is better nearer overcoat at the beginning of the pitch, but when I am more than 5 meters to the ground, the possibly of fall to the ground decreases, the system with no clove hitch is almost perfect, but not recommended obviously.

-The setup for recording this camera angle:

http://imageshack.us/a/img837/5408/raqueta1.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img834/9979/raqueta2.jpg

-The dead rope is in the rucsack. The backups clove hitch are on the 'dead' end of the rope, so will not be a part of the system at all unless the belay device doesn't lock. The maillon in the chest (the maillon isn't tied to the harness chest, is a sling to the main harness, it binds to the harness chest only with an another rubber band, in case of fall will bloken) really is a protection back up, in case the cinch don't lock and a remote possibility broken with a shock with the knots or carabiners.

-I put the rope in the rucsack because is more comfortable, and is possible to reduce weight if you know the height of the pitch, leaving the surplus in the ground.

-This setup is not possible with grigri, I don't need to pull rope to feed grigri, it comes out of the rucsack easily when am climbing, in fact this is a big problem if you don't put a stopper rubber band on the quickdraws catching the rope (in the video 3:45" and 5:40"). I don't know the Eddie.
TeddyKGB - on 12 Mar 2013
More information in this blog, is in spanish but has some pictures can help to understand the rope solo setup.

http://mr7a.blogspot.com.es/2013/03/autoaseguramiento-para-escalada-en.html

regards
the power - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to TeddyKGB: off topic but how did you rigg the video camera thats filming you climb? Some kind of pole outa your rucksac?
obi-wan nick b - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to the power:If you have a look at the OPs response a couple of replies up there is a link. I assume the the tennis racket wedges into the rucksack making the whole thing stable. There is this link I have but it has the support in shot so needs some work to optimise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp9P5gYoBWI
abcdefg - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to TeddyKGB:

Nice setup.

I was going to ask what prevents the weight of the rope you've already paid out from pulling out more dead rope, but I suppose the answer is the following, right?:

> ... I employ rubber band to fixe in the harness, the same I use to catch the rope to the quickdraws ...

That must be what you're doing at about the fourth quickdraw up - but you're doing it so slickly I can't actually figure out how you have it rigged up in advance!
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TeddyKGB - on 13 Mar 2013
abcdefg - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to TeddyKGB:

Thank you very much! That explains it very clearly.

One general question: have you had the chance to try other devices in your general setup? (For example, the Eddy, as mentioned above; or the Rock Exotica Soloist.) If so, how did you find they compared in practice with the Cinch?
willworkforfoodjnr - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to TeddyKGB: That is genious! Have you tested the effects in a fall? Does it snap, or tend to lift the gear out?

I've solo'd with the grigri (doesn't feed well, but others seem to like it, mabe because its cheap!), the eddy (feeds well on a 9.8mm rope and has caught me in test falls and my only big 'proper' lead fall, expensive though) and on clove hitches (free, reliable, terrifying)

Whatever you use TIE A BACKUP
TeddyKGB - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to abcdefg:

No, I have only the grigri and cinch, and in my opinion grigri not work well in autofeed.
TeddyKGB - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to willworkforfoodjnr:
> (In reply to TeddyKGB) That is genious! Have you tested the effects in a fall? Does it snap, or tend to lift the gear out?
>

The cinch works well, exactly as from ground. Works in the same way. The absorber plate (Kisa of Kong)

http://www.gearshack.co.uk/shop/via-ferrata/via-ferrata/kong-kisa.aspx

make the function of belayer to dinamice the falls, and the dinamic rope help as well.
abcdefg - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to TeddyKGB:

> ... The absorber plate (Kisa of Kong) make the function of belayer to dinamice the falls, and the dinamic rope help as well.

Thanks. I hadn't spotted the use of that in your system.

I think you have come up with an excellent overall arrangement here.

It's similar to that described in http://www.rockclimbing.com/Articles/Training_and_Technique/Roped_Solo_Free_Climbing_-_The_essence_o... and http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1610582#1610582
abcdefg - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to willworkforfoodjnr:

> Have you tested the effects in a fall? Does it snap, or tend to lift the gear out?

I guess you were referring here to the rubber bands on the krabs, right?

I might *guess* that, in a fall, those wouldn't snap, but they would certainly tend to lift the gear out. No problem if using bolts of course; but otherwise a placement which will resist an upwards pull might be wise.

But the rubber bands seem a much nicer solution to this problem than the thin prussiks you referred to above.



TeddyKGB - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to abcdefg:
> (In reply to willworkforfoodjnr)
>
> [...]
>
> I guess you were referring here to the rubber bands on the krabs, right?
>
> I might *guess* that, in a fall, those wouldn't snap, but they would certainly tend to lift the gear out. No problem if using bolts of course; but otherwise a placement which will resist an upwards pull might be wise.
>
> But the rubber bands seem a much nicer solution to this problem than the thin prussiks you referred to above.

Aaaahhhh ok, sorry. Yes, in a fall, the rubber band will broke or not, and tend to lift the gear out. Am only climb with bolts, with gears is totally craziest, is not enough solo in bolts??? hehehehe.

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