/ "Mount" Snowdon

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thejerv - on 11 Mar 2013
Just seen on BBC the footage of Mark's fall/slide down Parsley Fern Gully, which is apparently on "Mount" Snowdon. Why is it that whenever Snowdon is mentioned in the mainstream media they insist on sticking the word Mount in front of it? It does my head in!
(Rant over)
IainRUK - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to thejerv: I think they now do it just to piss off UKC readers..
Caralynh - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to thejerv:

It was also, apparently, on the steepest part of Mount Snowdon! Awful reporting and I can't help thinking it's not what Mark intended when releasing the video to the BMC
ian Ll-J - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to thejerv:

Even worse reporting on here...

http://www.aol.co.uk/video/watch-man-falls-down-mountain-and-survives/517696652/

Unless there was an identical accident in Scotland!!!!
Andes - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to thejerv:
At least they didn't call it "the highest mountain in England and Wales" as I once heard.
Dom Whillans on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to Andes:
> (In reply to thejerv)
> At least they didn't call it "the highest mountain in England and Wales" as I once heard.

at least that would be factually correct... unlike the american report, or the sticking "mount" in front of it.
Snoweider - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to ian Ll-J:

That appears to be two accidents mixed together, quality reporting- Adam Potter took a tumble back in 2011: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/30/climber-found-standing-up-scotland
Cardi - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to thejerv: The footage has made it over here onto the evening 'One News' in New Zealand! Inevitably described as Mount Snowdon.
Rampikino - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to thejerv:

Could I ask a genuine question please, (in 2 parts for the pendants).

Other than a pedantic need to be factually or nomemclaturely (?) correct, why on earth does it matter?

Is this just another way of us climbing folk separating ourselves from the great unwashed and finding yet another way of looking down our noses at them with disdain?

Just Another Dave - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Rampikino:

No, and...

Yes.
Pero - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to thejerv: It's like saying "the town of Llanberis"; or, the river Taff. We all know what Snowdon is, but in a general news item, I can't see the harm in making it clear to the less initiated.
owlart - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Pero: Do we ever see "Mount Ben Nevis" written? Genuine question, I've no idea, just curious.
Davvers - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Rampikino:

I like what you did there :-))
Damo on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Rampikino:
> (In reply to thejerv)
>
> Could I ask a genuine question please, (in 2 parts for the pendants).
>
> Other than a pedantic need to be factually or nomemclaturely (?) correct, why on earth does it matter?
>
> Is this just another way of us climbing folk separating ourselves from the great unwashed and finding yet another way of looking down our noses at them with disdain?

Also in two parts:

1. Why does being factually correct need to be sneered at as 'pedantry'? I don't accept being ignorant, wrong or careless as being acceptably 'normal'.

2. Yes, it can be. It also signifies ignorance of the local culture which is both a) rude, and b) indicative of further ignorance which may well render the report useless for any real understanding of the event.

Also, Human Rampikino, American media in particular has a grating habit of putting 'Mount' in front of Himalayan peaks such as Makalu, Manaslu, Kanchenjunga which neither have, nor need, such addition. 'Mount Dhaulagiri' would therefore translate as 'Mount White Mountain' which is ridiculous. Likewise trekkers apparently cross the Thorung La Pass, or translated, the 'Thorung Pass Pass'.
Andes - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Dom Whillans:
Factually correct... well yes, but a useless piece of information nonetheless. A bit like saying Mount Everest is the highest mountain in Russia and China.... oops maybe I should not have called it "Mount" Everest!
Gordon Stainforth - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to thejerv:

IIRC, it was referred to in literature as "Mount Snowdon" as early as the eighteenth century, and that usage may have preceeded the simpler "Snowdon" (but the latter is most likely incorrect).
Andy Say - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Damo:

>
> 2. Yes, it can be. It also signifies ignorance of the local culture which is both a) rude, and b) indicative of further ignorance which may well render the report useless for any real understanding of the event.
>

I believe that 'local culture' might deem yr wyddfa to be the actual name......
bigbobbyking - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Damo:
> (In reply to Rampikino)
> [...]
>
>
> Also, Human Rampikino, American media in particular has a grating habit of putting 'Mount' in front of Himalayan peaks such as Makalu, Manaslu, Kanchenjunga which neither have, nor need, such addition. 'Mount Dhaulagiri' would therefore translate as 'Mount White Mountain' which is ridiculous. Likewise trekkers apparently cross the Thorung La Pass, or translated, the 'Thorung Pass Pass'.


There's an extremely long history of this kind of thing. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tautological_place_names
Gordon Stainforth - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to bigbobbyking:

Thanks for reminding me that, of course, Dun is a hill. Go to the back of the class, Gordon!
Andy Stephenson - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to thejerv: Whatever the reasoning behind it (and I'd like to know what this reasoning is), it does grate.

I'd guess that the reporters think that they need to put "Mount" in front of any mountain name, to signify that they're talking about a mountain. If they were to say (for instance) "a climber fell off Snowdon today", people would wonder why Lord Snowdon was being climbed on.
Or if they mentioned an expedition to Manaslu, it might (to the ignorant) be a Pacific island; whereas "Mount Manaslu" at least lets you know that it's some sort of hillock somewhere.

Not that I like it, but maybe it has its uses. Not least to let you know not to read any further, as it's likely to be piffle.
Gordon Stainforth - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Andy Stephenson:

Curiously, they never seem to do it with the Lake District. I've never heard anyone ever say "Mount Helvellyn", for example.
Fat Bumbly2 - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Mount is used in hill names in Scotland - there it is an anglicisation of Monadh (like Mynydd) and meaning moorland lump. It is not an agrandising term.

Usage with Snowdon is a good ignorance indicator.
ablackett - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: I saw a tshirt with Mount Scafell Pike on it once. Shivers....
SteWh - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to thejerv: just to lighten things up: Bluto went to Mount Olive....so Popeye hit him!
Dom Whillans on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Andes:
> (In reply to Dom Whillans)
> Factually correct... well yes, but a useless piece of information nonetheless. A bit like saying Mount Everest is the highest mountain in Russia and China.... oops maybe I should not have called it "Mount" Everest!

Point taken, even though Russia (does Russia have a border on Sagramartha?) and China are actually separate nation states, whereas England and Wales aren't (much as it pains me being an adopted son of Wales to say so!)
999thAndy on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to thejerv:
> ... Why is it that whenever Snowdon is mentioned in the mainstream media they insist on sticking the word Mount in front of it? ...

So nobody gets confused between the highest mounatin in Wales and the prince of Wales' uncle.
Ridge - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
> (In reply to Andy Stephenson)
>
> Curiously, they never seem to do it with the Lake District. I've never heard anyone ever say "Mount Helvellyn", for example.

But they do use "Lake Windermere".
xplorer on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Rampikino:

Well said
GerM - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Dom Whillans:
> (In reply to Andes)
> [...]
>
> at least that would be factually correct... unlike the american report, or the sticking "mount" in front of it.

I'll have you know it is actually the highest mountain in England, Gabon, Bangladesh, Ireland, Tonga, Republic of the Congo, Hungary, Togo, Saint Lucia, Trinidad and Tobago, Mauritania, Seychelles, Ghana, Netherlands, Paraguay, Grenada, Mauritius, Federated States of Micronesia, San Marino, Burkina Faso, Belgium, Benin, Senegal, Luxembourg, Uruguay, Moldova, Antigua and Barbuda, Belarus, Barbados, Estonia, Latvia, Kuwait, Guinea-Bissau, Lithuania, Malta, Palau, Denmark, Singapore, Monaco, Bahrain, Qatar, Kiribati, Vatican City, Nauru, Bahamas, The Gambia, Marshall Islands, Tuvalu, Maldives and Wales.
Ghastly Rubberfeet on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Ridge:
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth)
> [...]
>
> But they do use "Lake Windermere".


<Screams!>
DynamoCL - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Ridge:
> But they do use "Lake Windermere".


What would the alternative be, using "Windermere Town" to differentiate? :)

Ghastly Rubberfeet on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to DynamoCL:
> (In reply to Ridge)
> [...]
>
>
> What would the alternative be, using "Windermere Town" to differentiate? :)

It's Windermere village.
Blunderbuss - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to thejerv:

I drove past it last weekend and when the classic view from near Capel Curig came into sight I announced to the Mrs:

"That's Mount Snowdon, the highest one in the middle"

roddyp on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Andy Say:

Or "Snawdune", in 1095 if my memory serves me right.
Andy Say - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to roddyp:
> (In reply to Andy Say)
>
> Or "Snawdune", in 1095 if my memory serves me right.

Friggin' Norman incomers.....

Andes - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to SteWh:
..and I once went to Mount Lady Washington.
john arran - on 13 Mar 2013
There's a slightly elevated neighbourhood of Boulder CO called 'Table Mesa' so presumably it should be referred to in the press as the 'Table Mesa Plateau'.
MJ - on 13 Mar 2013
mockerkin on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to Ridge:
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth)
> [...]
>
> But they do use "Lake Windermere".

There's a Troutbeck beck

New POD - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to Pero:
> (In reply to thejerv) It's like saying "the hole that is Llanberis";

I have edited your post for accuracy :)
ads.ukclimbing.com
mattrm - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

You've obviously never seen one of these t-shirts then:

http://www.summitjunkie.co.uk/helvellyn-mens-outline-t-shirt

Mt Helvellyn, I ask you.

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