/ Is it / isn't it in? A solution?
I was happy with my Chock Gully ascent, (I was reassured on here, and locally, that they crux is very often dry rock,) and firmly believe that the highlighted ascent of Engineers was not in winter condition - but both involved climbing dry rock - what is the difference?
Thankfully for my peace of mind I found that Guy Robinson, in his post relating to Dave McLeods new Ben Nevis routes, put into words what I couldn't in relation to different types of uk winter routes:
Is this how most people see it?
Yeah, I do. I basically think if it's a snowed up rock route you need snowed up rock where as what defines Chock Gully as a route is the ice even if that involves some climbing dry rock, (at least 95% of the route was climbed on ice or snow.)
It's far better explained than that in the link(!) although Mr. Robertson obviously isn't talking about Engineer Slab and Chock Gully.
I didn't actually see any photo's of engineers slab so I have no idea what condition it was in, I was just wondering if your opinion of that ascent had changed.
"The Snotter looks, and by all accounts is a great route, but would be anomolous within the current winter grade system. Despite the use of a long distance shot that makes the dry section seem insignificant, from Dave’s honest account and other photos it is not . The suggested VIII,8 grade is based on that section. Now if it was given VI,6,E3 or VI,6,M6 what is the problem? Same route but, in my view, a more realistic description of the difficulties."
Far better just to call it VIII,8 and mention that there was dry rock on the first ascent than add an extra grade which no-one has any experience of using.....
I also think that VIII 8 reinforces that the route needs to be in winter condition, where as VI 6, M6 could be in the condition DM climbed The Snotter in, but equally could be a completely dry pitch with 6ft of ice at the top.
I do agree the critiscism of the Snotter was waaaay over the top though (ie, there shouldn't haven been any).
They're similar cases wouldn't you agree? Both look good and wintry from a distance but have a short dry section at close quarters.
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