/ Politicians

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TheDrunkenBakers - on 20 Mar 2013
OK, so the budget is here today and it got me thinking....

As an armchair politician (as we most are), with little political education I was thinking about our politicians and their experience and wondered if we are missing a trick.

Shouldn't our top two politicians be time served industrialists with real experience. For instance, David Cameron is a career politician and so wouldn't the role of PM be better served by a chief exec or chairperson from a FTSE100, having previously demonstrated leadership of a complex entity? George Osborne is a career politician and so shouldn't this role be filled by, say, an FD or Chief Economist of a major organisation.

The rest of the cabinet seem to have held senior roles in various industries so wouldnt it be better if DC and GO did too.

Just a thought.
Sarah G on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers: Blimey, leaders who might actually know what they're talking about?

Whatever next......!


Sx ;)
Sir Chasm - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers: Do they get a choice? Or are you going to pick a chief exec and say "tig, you're it"?
MG - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers: So in 2007 you would have voted for say Fred Goodwin for PM?
Tim Chappell - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

The level of insight and analysis on these forums never ceases to amaze me :-0
TheDrunkenBakers - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to Sir Chasm:
> (In reply to TheDrunkenBakers) Do they get a choice? Or are you going to pick a chief exec and say "tig, you're it"?

i think you know what I meant.

TheDrunkenBakers - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to MG:
> (In reply to TheDrunkenBakers) So in 2007 you would have voted for say Fred Goodwin for PM?

Perhaps not, but considering he is one of only a few misguided leader we have in this country, I am sure that there are many others who are able to take a decent decision.

Steve John B - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to MG:
> (In reply to TheDrunkenBakers) So in 2007 you would have voted for say Fred Goodwin for PM?

If the choice was between him and Gordon Brown... Can I emigrate?
TheDrunkenBakers - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to Tim Chappell:
> (In reply to TheDrunkenBakers)
>
> The level of insight and analysis on these forums never ceases to amaze me :-0

Was this leveled at my question or the responses thereafter. Im curious to know?
dissonance - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

could you explain exactly what skills would usefully transfer from managing a property company with 600 employees?

Also what is wrong about being a career politican in principle?
That would be someone who has worked their way up through the system and, in theory, will have got experience first as a adviser and then as a junior minister etc across a range of specialities.
EeeByGum - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

> Shouldn't our top two politicians be time served industrialists with real experience.

I would rather our politicians be anyone who actually believes in something. There was a time when our politicians had principals that they applied to their politics. At least Tories used to openly support the wealthy whilst Labour fought for the working man. These days, it is about buttering up the electorate sufficiently to get into power before ignoring everything you said in a desperate bid to get your name on the next big grandstand policy (f**k up). The current government attempt at claim to fame is screwing over the NHS.

It would also be nice to see politicians promising to make things a bit better rather than trying to wipe the slate clean and start again. You can't make the NHS better through restructuring it. It just needs a prod and a poke here and there.
Sir Chasm - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
> (In reply to Sir Chasm)
> [...]
>
> i think you know what I meant.

Not really, are these chief execs going to become MPs before they're appointed PM and chancellor? Or are they going to stand for those positions? Are you going to have Labour and Tory chief execs or would they be cross party?
GrahamD - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Great idea - lets elect people who got to be leading industrialists presumably through hostile takeovers...
stevieb - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
Well, first question is would you be happy if the PM and Chancellor were on around 10M a year plus performance bonuses? (Considering the scale of the job compared to any large company it could probably be far far higher). I'm sure if they were brilliant that it would be more than worth it, but plenty of voters get upset if MPs claim too many staples on expenses.
Also, the USA recently had the chance to choose a highly successful businessman with all the skills for running a major business, but apparently flexible beliefs. They chose not to.
EeeByGum - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to stevieb:
> plus performance bonuses

By performance bonuses, I presume that also means that they still get a massive pay off if they fail or get elected out of office? :-)
toad - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to EeeByGum:
> (In reply to TheDrunkenBakers)
>
> [...]
>
> I would rather our politicians be anyone who actually believes in something.

So Michal Gove it is then. Be careful what you wish for....
EeeByGum - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to toad:

> So Michal Gove it is then. Be careful what you wish for....

He doesn't believe in anything. He doesn't have principals. He just wants to grand stand on an ill thought out policy which in reality will almost certainly cause more problems than in solves.
johncoxmysteriously - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to toad:

Agreed. Politicians who believe in anything much are usually pretty bad politicians (cf Michael Foot, Clare Short) and frequently outright lunatics (see Michael Gove). What we need are people who are interested in good administration, propriety and not doing anything stupid, which is generally the summit of any government's achievement. Unfortunately those qualities don't look good at the ballot box because the public is so stupid and gullible, so consequently we get the politicians we deserve and imagine that it's their fault rather than ours.

jcm
tony on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to EeeByGum:
> (In reply to toad)
>
> [...]
>
> He doesn't believe in anything.

Yes he does. He believes he's right. All the time. Even when he's wrong, and he admits he's wrong. Admitting that you're wrong just shows how right you are.
EeeByGum - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to tony:

> Yes he does. He believes he's right. All the time. Even when he's wrong, and he admits he's wrong. Admitting that you're wrong just shows how right you are.

Nice! That goes for most politicians I believe.
ads.ukclimbing.com
johncoxmysteriously - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to EeeByGum:

Indeed. Who was it who beseeched whom, in the bowels of Christ, to think it possible that they may be mistaken? For some reason Oliver Cromwell in Putney Church comes to mind. Seems a bit rich coming from him. I shall Google.

jcm
johncoxmysteriously - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Nearly. Ollie C writing to the Church of Scotland in 1650 when they were proposing to invade England. Since they didn't (I don't think), who knows - maybe they even listened. Wonder what the Irish thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putney_Debates

Putney Church was something else, evidently.

jcm
New POD - on 21 Mar 2013


Politicians who have had a proper job ? Would that be John Prescott then. Wasn't he a railway man ? Can't think of any others.

Proof that power corrupts ?

Funny though, there was a Lad on my Degree Course (Manufacturing Engineering), name of Moron or Moran, or something. Mad as a hatter he was. Desperate to get into politics. I think he might have been sectioned later, but I imagine he'd make a good MP. He had a certain narcastisic view of the world.
tony on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to New POD:
>
>
> Politicians who have had a proper job ? Would that be John Prescott then. Wasn't he a railway man ?

No, he was a steward on ships.

Can't think of any others.
>
Does the military count? There are a fair few former soldiers, including the drunk Eric Joyce.

Dennis Skinner was a miner.

My MP Gordon Banks worked in the construction industry for 31 years.

There are in fact loads of MPs who have had jobs unassociated with politics.

> Proof that power corrupts ?

What's that supposed to mean?
Eric9Points - on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to toad)
>
> Agreed. Politicians who believe in anything much are usually pretty bad politicians (cf Michael Foot, Clare Short) and frequently outright lunatics (see Michael Gove). What we need are people who are interested in good administration, propriety and not doing anything stupid, which is generally the summit of any government's achievement. Unfortunately those qualities don't look good at the ballot box because the public is so stupid and gullible, so consequently we get the politicians we deserve and imagine that it's their fault rather than ours.

I know what you mean but I think what's missing from Clare Short's personality is a sense of pragmatism. Politics is the art of the possible and when you get into office things generally turn out to be a lot more complicated than they seem from the outside, as far as I can see anyway.

Another thought about this idealism thing. Last week I went to see Ken Loach's new film, http://www.thespiritof45.com/About-The-Film/A-Brief-Synopsis . The film showed how the Labour government created the national health service, started a masive programme of housing improvements (council house building), improved welfare, brought in health and safety legislaton that made real differences to working conditions and nationalised a host of industries in the course of a few years. They transformed the country straight after six years of war and with no money in the bank. It was done on the foundation of a clear idealogy and a real sense of purpose.

I now understand why the Atlee Government is regarded as the best government the UK had in the 20th century. One more point, most of the ministers in that government had been ministers in the war time government so were already very experienced in governing a country and making it happen.
Al Evans on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
> OK, so the budget is here today and it got me thinking....
>
> As an armchair politician (as we most are), with little political education I was thinking about our politicians and their experience and wondered if we are missing a trick.
>
> Shouldn't our top two politicians be time served industrialists with real experience. For instance, David Cameron is a career politician and so wouldn't the role of PM be better served by a chief exec or chairperson from a FTSE100, having previously demonstrated leadership of a complex entity? George Osborne is a career politician and so shouldn't this role be filled by, say, an FD or Chief Economist of a major organisation.
>
> The rest of the cabinet seem to have held senior roles in various industries so wouldnt it be better if DC and GO did too.
>
> Just a thought.

Only if he was partnered with a time served trade unionist representing the workforce!
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Italy had Burlosconi (a billionaire business man), now they have a comedian.

I agree though that the current crop of cabinet and shadow are utterly detached from the reality we all live in.

One of the reasons I like Farage (yes I know he's hated on here). Chain smoking ex commodities broker telling , no, shouting at unelected EU beaurocrats uncomfortable home truths. Also upsetting the love in at liblabcon. So refreshing, regardless of his policies.

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