/ Most Remote spot in England ?

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999thAndy on 16 Apr 2013
As per title really, where is the most remote spot in England ? By remote, I mean furthest from a public road.
I'm guessing it'll be in Northumberland or N. Yorks somewhere but no idea beyond that.

Over to you UKH.
andi turner - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: I once read that you are never further than 5 miles from a public road in England (in a straight line) and 7 miles in Scotland.

Tom Last - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy:

Fur Tor on Dartmoor has to be one of the most remote spots in the south.
estivoautumnal - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to andi turner:
> (In reply to 999thAndy) I once read that you are never further than 5 miles from a public road in England (in a straight line) and 7 miles in Scotland.

It's about 10 miles in Scotland excluding islands.
IainRUK - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Southern Man: Thought Bleaklow?
Tom V - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:


A couple of forums have it as a point on Ruadh Stac Beag, 7 miles.

a lakeland climber on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy:

My first thought was somewhere like The Cheviot but there's a minor road that gets within about 3Km of it. I'd suggest somewhere round the back of High Cup Nick or Dufton Fell.

It's surprising just how far in to "wilderness" areas public roads go.

ALC
Tall Clare - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Tom V:

That's in Scotland, no?
Dauphin - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy:

Won't be that remote, better would be furthest from habitation.

D
Tom Last - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to Southern Man) Thought Bleaklow?

Bleaklow is certainly more confusing in all those strange gullies.

I don't think Fur Tor's far off though.

How about the middle of Skiddaw Forest also?
999thAndy on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Dauphin: true, I nearly asked where is furthest from a pub. But figures roads would more challenging
MJ - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy:

Is Lundy or other islands allowed?
Ramblin dave - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Southern Man:
I think Caw in the south west lakes is more remote than Skiddaw Forest. Fur Tor sort of area also looks good, and some places southeast of Cross Fell. Some stuff in Northumberland (not Kielder Forest but that bit south west of it) is a long way from the road too, but loses points for being full of forestry tracks and mountain bike trails.

Bleaklow feels a lot more remote than it really is - the bus to King's Tree plus the A628 across the north side mean that you're never actually that far from a road as the crow flies.
estivoautumnal - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Tall Clare:

Yes it is. He was answering my comment.

999thAndy on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to MJ: I was thinking about places to walk to, so I'd say no.
Tall Clare - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

Apologies.
dissonance - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to andi turner:
> (In reply to 999thAndy) I once read that you are never further than 5 miles from a public road in England (in a straight line) and 7 miles in Scotland.

For Scotland thats for a metalled road according to OS so not sure if that still allows for some other public roads (as opposed to green roads)

http://mapzone.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/mapzone/didyouknow/whatis/q_12_54.html
Kevin Woods - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to dissonance: Areas of Drumochter and Atholl are further, up to about 15km. That site must be based on the assumption that Fisherfield is the most remote in distance terms. It's just there's a large lack of landrover tracks for everyone to cycle up the. The largest areas in volume are the Gorms/Atholl region and Affric/Monar, etc. Also some big empty areas up in Caithness with nothing but moor.
Kevin Woods - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: Also noticed Ruadh Stac Beag was popular in a Google search I did, so I must be missing something?
999thAndy on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Kevin Woods: both in Scotland, I was asking about England
Kevin Woods - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: Yeah I know. Dissonance brought it up.
In reply to 999thAndy: I've not measured on a map but the best bet is probably either the North Pennines (back of Cross Fell type thing), or some obscure bit of the Cheviots/Keilder. The best you'll do down south is somewhere on Dartmoor like the headwaters of the East Dart River maybe. In the Lakes you'll struggle to get more remote than the middle of the Skiddaw Forest, Great Moss at the top of Eskdale, or that bit south of Ennerdale/west of Pillar
SCC Changed - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: looking at this question from a sea kayaking perspective might get some different answers- for England possibly Farne Islands (not sure if there are public roads on there or just tracks) then there are various "drying bits" e.g. Middle of Morecambe Bay which feel very remote.
estivoautumnal - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Tom V:

It's about 10 miles.
thomm - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Many years ago I camped right in the middle of Dufton Fell in the firm belief that it was the most remote spot in England, but I don't think I ever actually measured it. It was a quiet few nights.
Sean Kelly - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: for Scotland, Ben Alder summit plateau is pretty remote by whatever way you want to measure it...
drmarten on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Sean Kelly:
It's only 5 miles to the road at Corrour Lodge. The road through Strath Ossian is a private estate road but still metalled if I remember rightly. I had thought of the Monaliadth but there are estate roads that drastically cut down the distances.
Sean Kelly - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to drmarten: You can't drive on it, and it's only a track!
Bulls Crack - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Southern Man:
> (In reply to 999thAndy)
>
> Fur Tor on Dartmoor has to be one of the most remote spots in the south.

Dartmoor probably the main contender overall I'd have thought
Gordon Stainforth - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Bulls Crack:

Surely Dufton Fell and the Howgills (as someone has suggested higher up) is more genuinely remote than Dartmoor?
MG - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
> (In reply to Bulls Crack)
>
> Surely Dufton Fell

Just 3km from a road?

marmot hunter - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to MG:
Fur tor looks about 4km from a road to me, not measured on a map though.
wercat on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy:
My guess is somewhere in the N Pennines, having grown up there. You have also to consider the type of road you might have as the nearest.

For instance the main road from Weardale into Cumbria is higher than the Bealach na Ba
drmarten on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Sean Kelly:
One man's track is another man's gravel road. You can drive on it with any normal road car - assuming you've a reason to go into the lodge, like renting the accommodation.
Orgsm on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:
> (In reply to 999thAndy) I've not measured on a map but the best bet is probably either the North Pennines (back of Cross Fell type thing), or some obscure bit of the Cheviots/Keilder. The best you'll do down south is somewhere on Dartmoor like the headwaters of the East Dart River maybe. In the Lakes you'll struggle to get more remote than the middle of the Skiddaw Forest, Great Moss at the top of Eskdale, or that bit south of Ennerdale/west of Pillar

But what about the road up great dun fell, that can't be more than a couple of miles from Cross Fell.

Dave Perry - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy:


Having done a quick check with my dividers using a 1" to 4 Mile scale map, the two nearest contenders for the remotest place in England from a tarmac/public road are likely to be:-

a) a place around half way between OH ME EDGE & MONKSIDE Just north of Kielder Water in the southern Cheviots. at just about 4.75 miles from the nearest public road.
b) a place approximately 3 miles north of Cross Fell, but this is probably only just 4.5 miles from the nearest road.

(Sorry - no grid refs.

But to my surprise Dartmoor comes a close third with a spot about half a mile east of Great Kneeset, this being 4.25 miles from the nearest road.

Gordon Stainforth - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:
> (In reply to Southern Man)

>
> Bleaklow feels a lot more remote than it really is - the bus to King's Tree plus the A628 across the north side mean that you're never actually that far from a road as the crow flies.

The area around Bleaklow Stones, West End Head and Grinah Stones is about 3 1/2 km from nearest road. Amazing, considering where it is in England.

Tim Sparrow on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: So where would be the mot remote spot in Wales and does it beat England? Suggest looking somewhere round the back of the Claerwen .......not a place to turn an ankle.
SimonCRMC - on 16 Apr 2013
In reply to Kevin Woods:

Pretty sure A Mhaighdean in Fisherfield is the most remote munro and that it's further than 15k from a metalled road (unless it's measured as the crow flies across a lot of water) - maybe someone else can confirm?
999thAndy on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to Dave Perry:
I did a google map check yesterday and this area did seem pretty remote, although when you say near kielder, I assume you mean 4.75 miles from kielder, as there's a road right up to the mountain bike place
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Tom Last - on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to marmot hunter:
> (In reply to MG)
> Fur tor looks about 4km from a road to me, not measured on a map though.

About 6.5km I think.

Possibly not the most remote spot on Dartmoor, but regularly referred to as the most remote tor as opposed to nondescript bit of bog I suppose.
Tom Last - on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to Southern Man:

Fur Tor's worth a visit. It feels a little like being out of sight of the land at sea out there as there are very few other prominent tors in sight and very little else on the horizon besides moor; so little concept of scale to the eye. The horizon seems to roll and shimmer. Great place, very beautiful, very wild.
Dave Perry - on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy:

Andy
Gone and done a bit of online mapping and my grid reference would be roughly around Wether lair at 702965. BUT. I noticed that there are one or two buildings named as Wainhope just to the north east of Kielder (not on my small scale map) which if they are accessed by public road and not forestry, makes my claim a little less accurate.

NB I did assume that the road up to Kielder water was public.

You might like to read this http://davidwperry.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/most-remote-places.html about a couple of the world's most remote spots. (I've been privileged enough to have been to two of them!)
mike123 - on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to Dave Perry: great article dave, thanks for the link
sheep - on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy:

No-one's mentioned Ladhar Bheinn yet. Surely the bit of tarmac at Inverie can't be considered a 'road' in this context.

In the Lakes i'd go with Dan's suggestion of the Caw/Haycock area.
Fat Bumbly2 - on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to sheep: Beinn na Cailleach trumps Ladhar Bheinn, but remember there is a village and main road nearby if you have a boat.
Mike Peacock on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to Tim Sparrow:
> (In reply to 999thAndy) So where would be the mot remote spot in Wales and does it beat England? Suggest looking somewhere round the back of the Claerwen .......not a place to turn an ankle.

A quick look suggests the source of the Tywi is approx 3.5 miles from the road in any direction. I can't think of any larger expanse in Wales without roads.
jonathandavey - on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: The middle of Salisbury Plain?
Andy Say - on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy:
It is somewhere near Cranmere Pool on Dartmoor. I seem to recall measuring it as 6.75 km from the nearest tarmac or house. Beats everywhere else by quite a bit as I remember.
David Ponting on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to Mike Peacock: Depending on the exact nature of some of the marked tracks on the OS maps (i.e. grass track or metalled private road), somewhere NNE of Plynlimon might give the Tywi a run for its money... I'm thinking somewhere like SN810910, which is about 5-6km in all directions
marmot hunter - on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to David Ponting:
Please note the OP asked for 'England'. I doubt anyone's nav and map skills if they mention anywhere in Scotland or Wales.
Most basic of errors - get the right country!
Fat Bumbly2 - on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to marmot hunter: It's called thread drift.
toad - on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: Whilst I don't thin they'd be a contender for the top spot, I reckon there will be places on the East Coast that will be suprisingly remote, compared to some of the hills mentioned
David Ponting on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to Fat Bumbly2:
> (In reply to marmot hunter) It's called thread drift.

Indeed - if you follow the chain of "in reply to"s, someone started wondering about Wales. There's also been discussion of Scotland in the thread as well.
Wainers44 - on 17 Apr 2013
In reply to Andy Say:
> (In reply to 999thAndy)
> It is somewhere near Cranmere Pool on Dartmoor. I seem to recall measuring it as 6.75 km from the nearest tarmac or house. Beats everywhere else by quite a bit as I remember.

It depends if you include the army ring road as "tarmac" as it is in many places?

The most remote on Dartmoor is usually cited as being Cut Hill, although thats a pretty ugly lump by comparison with Fur Tor!
Dave Perry - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to toad:

Assuming you mean the east coast of England, where roughly do you think it might be 'remote'?
Mike Peacock on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to David Ponting:
> (In reply to Mike Peacock) Depending on the exact nature of some of the marked tracks on the OS maps (i.e. grass track or metalled private road), somewhere NNE of Plynlimon might give the Tywi a run for its money... I'm thinking somewhere like SN810910, which is about 5-6km in all directions

Not bad, but a direct line from Maesnant (Nant y Moch) to the Dylife road near Glaslyn is 5.8 miles. A central location there is over 3 miles distant from either the Hafren or Hengwm roads though, so it could be a second place.
In reply to Dave Perry: Well Canvey Island feels like the end of the world
Tom Last - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Dave Perry:
> (In reply to toad)
>
> Assuming you mean the east coast of England, where roughly do you think it might be 'remote'?

There's places in Essex that 'feel' remote, rather than in actuality. Foulness Island springs to mind. Okay so they're no distance from a road & in fact have plenty of roads running through them along with houses, agriculture, nuclear power stations! But they can feel remote, in place and time.
Ramblin dave - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Southern Man:
Actually, if the ferries aren't running then the tip of Orford Ness is a very long walk from the road.
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Sean Kelly - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to drmarten:
> (In reply to Sean Kelly)
> One man's track is another man's gravel road. You can drive on it with any normal road car - assuming you've a reason to go into the lodge, like renting the accommodation.
Have you seen the prices!!!
How someone can suggest Dartmoor is beyond me. Miles from a public road is irrevelant really. Remote location is all about how long it takes to both WALK in and out and if any difficult river crossings could cause problems...Letterewe Forest for me has it all in terms of remoteness, especially in the dark cold days of winter.

marmot hunter - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Sean Kelly:
If Dartmoor is beyond you then I'd suggest you don't understand remote places in ENGLAND (as per the OP)!
It is the same distance inand out isn't it?
One of the fastest rising watercourses in ENGLAND is also supposedly on Dartmoor so I've been told.
andrew ogilvie - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to wercat: Not if you believe the Ordnance Survey it isn't - weardale 577m, bealach na ba 618m.
wercat on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy:

Ahem, Killhope Cross is 627m and that supposedly makes it one of the highest roads in england. I seem to remember that there are one or two high roads between Teesdale and Weardale that might be higher but I can't remember which - It's a while since I lived in the area and it was 2/3 of a lifetime ago at least!
wercat on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to andrew ogilvie:

BTW I speak of the B N B from the perspective of having dwelt in Applecross for a while in the 80s, and have walked and cycled home to the Estate office house on a number of occasions in the days when you met hardly a soul in those hills
drmarten on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Sean Kelly:
> (In reply to drmarten)
> [...]
> Have you seen the prices!!!

Yes it does look rather expensive, especially for the more luxurious rentals. A work colleague has stayed there and has another booking shortly, I think they take one of the less salubrious cottages and shared between several people it's not that bad. So she says.
andrew ogilvie - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to wercat: Apologies. You are, of course, right. I was looking at the a686 further east rather than the a689 at Killhope. My geography hopelessly at fault sorry.
wercat on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to andrew ogilvie:

I must admit, when I discovered how high the Killhope road was I was quite surprised as I'd assumed the Applecross one was higher.

Cycling home to Stanhope seemed to be downhill all the way!
sdpwilliams - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy:

http://earthengine.google.org/#intro/Roadless1km shows parts of the world further than 1km from a road but not the most remote

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