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After completing my first marathon (Brighton) on Sunday with a pretty poor time of 5:33, I've caught the bug and now I want to start to get preparing for my next marathon, whenever that may be. I would ideally like to aim for 4:30.
I did not train whatsoever for the Brighton and to be honest, neglected my diet and general wellbeing for it and dogged it round but it would be nice to put everything into my next marathon.
My questions are, How long should I allow to train for before booking my next marathon with an aim of finishing in 4:30? What sort of training should I be focusing on to improve my leg strength as cramps and knackered legs is what ultimately let me down? I.e. Intervals, long distance, hill training. FInally, will cutting my weight help me with my time as being 5" 9' and weighing in at around 13st seems to feel very lumbersome and if losing the weight would be a good idea, what sort of dieting and training should I be looking at?
Apologies for the huge barrage of questions but I've caught the bug for it now and I'm really eager to improve and do more for it. I understand that a lot of these questions are 'how long is a piece of string' so any advice available will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys!
Brad C
I did not train whatsoever for the Brighton and to be honest, neglected my diet and general wellbeing for it and dogged it round but it would be nice to put everything into my next marathon.
My questions are, How long should I allow to train for before booking my next marathon with an aim of finishing in 4:30? What sort of training should I be focusing on to improve my leg strength as cramps and knackered legs is what ultimately let me down? I.e. Intervals, long distance, hill training. FInally, will cutting my weight help me with my time as being 5" 9' and weighing in at around 13st seems to feel very lumbersome and if losing the weight would be a good idea, what sort of dieting and training should I be looking at?
Apologies for the huge barrage of questions but I've caught the bug for it now and I'm really eager to improve and do more for it. I understand that a lot of these questions are 'how long is a piece of string' so any advice available will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys!
Brad C
In reply to bradzy_c:
Well, if you didn't train and didn't watch your diet for you first marathon, the obvious change would be to train and to watch your diet
Simply put, run more (with sensible steady volume increments) and eat healthy food and your weight will come down and your fitness will improve. Forget specific training for leg strength etc. as this stave. Just run more. Get used running long periodically (for example once a week), long being relative to what you are used to.
If you like racing, maybe sign up for shorter races occasionally.
Well, if you didn't train and didn't watch your diet for you first marathon, the obvious change would be to train and to watch your diet
Simply put, run more (with sensible steady volume increments) and eat healthy food and your weight will come down and your fitness will improve. Forget specific training for leg strength etc. as this stave. Just run more. Get used running long periodically (for example once a week), long being relative to what you are used to.
If you like racing, maybe sign up for shorter races occasionally.
In reply to bradzy_c: I'm 6'1 and around 13 stone.. so heavier than most runners. Being lighter will help me but I've ran solid road times. 2:39 for a marathon, sub 34 for a 10k..
Run more..as Stef said. Race more, get more motivation, do things like park runs, regular timed efforts so you can keep track of improvements.
5:33 is pretty slow, did you walk? as a steady plod 4 is basically 9-10 minute miling.. so 4 should be possible.. but its hard to say more without knowing current training.
Run more..as Stef said. Race more, get more motivation, do things like park runs, regular timed efforts so you can keep track of improvements.
5:33 is pretty slow, did you walk? as a steady plod 4 is basically 9-10 minute miling.. so 4 should be possible.. but its hard to say more without knowing current training.
In reply to IainRUK: Cheers for the replies. Yeah I was walking to because my legs were really cramping up, even taking gels after every 20 minutes didn't seem to help. I did do one long run a week accompanied with about 2/3 short runs (between 3 and 6 miles) and that was basically all my training. Would it be unreasonable to say 5 months of hard training could get me to 4 - 4:30? I would like to enter the Chester Marathon this October.
In reply to bradzy_c:
Just curious (and not judging, seriously) but why didn't you train at all? Did you enter last minute for laugh? Was it naivety and under-estimating what was involved? Lack of time to fit the training in?
I know its a cliche but you don't run the marathon on the day, its the several months preparation that makes the difference. So look at why you failed in the prep and see what can you fix there.
As others have said, run more and the weight will naturally fall off. I'm 5-9 and can barely stay above 10.5 stone. I don't really watch what I eat, just eat when I'm hungry and probably drink too much wine.
If you're going from zero which it sounds like you are, your body is going to have to go through a process of adaptation to the new stresses you put on it, and there's simply no way to shortcut this. It properly takes a couple of years to be honest so be prepared for it, but it will happen, it is nature and it is inevitable if you keep up the training.
Make a rudimentary plan/log and see if you can stick with it. Motivation is a big factor and seeing what you've achieved makes a difference. Log your runs (I use Strava but there's a ton of stuff) with an app and again it might help with motivation.
Finding time to run is a big issue, but equally on the flip side its so easy to do anywhere if you remember your trainers. When I lived in London I used to run to the office 3 or 4 times a week. Gets it out of the way, avoids gyms and a better commute. If that's not possible, try to fit the run into a part of your life that can't be easily missed out (I run with my dog in the mornings now, he needs a walk, so even when I don't feel like running I usually do as I'll only need to walk for an hour anyway).
I'm surprised you enjoyed it from your experience - sounds like hell to be honest but hopefully that's a good sign. I wouldn't get hung up on another marathon yet - get some intermediate races in and concentrate on running them well. 5km Park Runs could be a good idea to start with.
Good luck and above all enjoy it - don't run as a means to an end. Run because its fun.
> I did not train whatsoever for the Brighton and to be honest,
Just curious (and not judging, seriously) but why didn't you train at all? Did you enter last minute for laugh? Was it naivety and under-estimating what was involved? Lack of time to fit the training in?
I know its a cliche but you don't run the marathon on the day, its the several months preparation that makes the difference. So look at why you failed in the prep and see what can you fix there.
As others have said, run more and the weight will naturally fall off. I'm 5-9 and can barely stay above 10.5 stone. I don't really watch what I eat, just eat when I'm hungry and probably drink too much wine.
If you're going from zero which it sounds like you are, your body is going to have to go through a process of adaptation to the new stresses you put on it, and there's simply no way to shortcut this. It properly takes a couple of years to be honest so be prepared for it, but it will happen, it is nature and it is inevitable if you keep up the training.
Make a rudimentary plan/log and see if you can stick with it. Motivation is a big factor and seeing what you've achieved makes a difference. Log your runs (I use Strava but there's a ton of stuff) with an app and again it might help with motivation.
Finding time to run is a big issue, but equally on the flip side its so easy to do anywhere if you remember your trainers. When I lived in London I used to run to the office 3 or 4 times a week. Gets it out of the way, avoids gyms and a better commute. If that's not possible, try to fit the run into a part of your life that can't be easily missed out (I run with my dog in the mornings now, he needs a walk, so even when I don't feel like running I usually do as I'll only need to walk for an hour anyway).
I'm surprised you enjoyed it from your experience - sounds like hell to be honest but hopefully that's a good sign. I wouldn't get hung up on another marathon yet - get some intermediate races in and concentrate on running them well. 5km Park Runs could be a good idea to start with.
Good luck and above all enjoy it - don't run as a means to an end. Run because its fun.
In reply to bradzy_c: Yes.. just run consistant mileage.. old advice is 100 miles in your 5 longest runs.. But do long runs at race pace.. LSD is just rubbish.. train to go slow.. it doesn't mean long slow.. long steady pace.. but finish at around race pace at least..
Your long runs, eevry 2 weeks, should be 15/16 miles to 22 miles maybe.. then a longer midweek run 10 miles.. then shorter runs.. but try to run everyother day..
Training works.. sounds obvious but running a marathon after a proper training schedule is just so much more of an enjoyable occassion.
Your long runs, eevry 2 weeks, should be 15/16 miles to 22 miles maybe.. then a longer midweek run 10 miles.. then shorter runs.. but try to run everyother day..
Training works.. sounds obvious but running a marathon after a proper training schedule is just so much more of an enjoyable occassion.
In reply to yorkshireman: If I'm honest, I knew I could run the 20 miles as I did this two weeks before so I was happy to completeing the marathon, I wasn't too fussed about the time at all. I just enjoyed the pain and experience of it all.
I want to sign up to another marathon so that I have a deadline to work to as this will help motivate me, however this doesn't really seem like a problem if I'm honest as it's usually how to train rather than being able to train that becomes my problem.
I didn't train and entered because I wanted to really, simple as that and I achieved what I wanted. But now I feel I want to do better and get a better time. Just wondering what you more experienced guys feel about 5 months to shed the time?
I want to sign up to another marathon so that I have a deadline to work to as this will help motivate me, however this doesn't really seem like a problem if I'm honest as it's usually how to train rather than being able to train that becomes my problem.
I didn't train and entered because I wanted to really, simple as that and I achieved what I wanted. But now I feel I want to do better and get a better time. Just wondering what you more experienced guys feel about 5 months to shed the time?
In reply to bradzy_c:
Sorry, as I was replying I missed your response about your training runs. In the OP you said no training at all which isn't quite what you literally meant.
Yes, if you're running 4 times a week with a long run every couple of weeks, 5 months prep for a marathon will make it feasible. You've already proved you've got the determination and mental toughness to see it through, combine that with improved physical capacity and you should be onto a winner.
Sorry, as I was replying I missed your response about your training runs. In the OP you said no training at all which isn't quite what you literally meant.
Yes, if you're running 4 times a week with a long run every couple of weeks, 5 months prep for a marathon will make it feasible. You've already proved you've got the determination and mental toughness to see it through, combine that with improved physical capacity and you should be onto a winner.
In reply to yorkshireman: Sorry I didn't think the training was worth mentioning.
Ok thanks for your adivce, I think I'll enter it and just get a plan written up and stick to it. Just didn't want to be setting my sights too high!
I suppose at the end of the day if I can complete with with not much training It can't get much worse...
Ok thanks for your adivce, I think I'll enter it and just get a plan written up and stick to it. Just didn't want to be setting my sights too high!
I suppose at the end of the day if I can complete with with not much training It can't get much worse...
Run because its fun.
Sounds like an oxymoron if ever there was one !
In reply to Ciderslider:
I went for a 12km trail run with my dog this morning. The sun rose over the mountains, we had to jump a few raging meltw*ter streams, the dog chased a deer and I finished it with a lung buster up to the second ski lift on our local hill - it was a killer but I beat a goal I had set myself and had been working on for a while so I was pleased. The breakneck descent back down through the forest to the valley was a blast.
In short, it was a joy.
If you don't enjoy it, find some other form of exercise that you do enjoy - we don't get paid - life's too short.
>
>
> Run because its fun.
>
> Sounds like an oxymoron if ever there was one !
>
> Run because its fun.
>
> Sounds like an oxymoron if ever there was one !
I went for a 12km trail run with my dog this morning. The sun rose over the mountains, we had to jump a few raging meltw*ter streams, the dog chased a deer and I finished it with a lung buster up to the second ski lift on our local hill - it was a killer but I beat a goal I had set myself and had been working on for a while so I was pleased. The breakneck descent back down through the forest to the valley was a blast.
In short, it was a joy.
If you don't enjoy it, find some other form of exercise that you do enjoy - we don't get paid - life's too short.
In reply to yorkshireman:
I had to read this a couple of times to make sure you didn't finish the deer
> the dog chased a deer and I finished it with a lung buster up to the second ski lift on our local hill
I had to read this a couple of times to make sure you didn't finish the deer
In reply to bradzy_c:
Try...
http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51138/Marathon-Novice-2-Training-Program
...which is basically "get out three time in the week, and go a bit further at the weekend". 18 weeks - so you have plenty of time.
And aim for four hours. You're 17 for goodness sake! Assuming you have fully-functioning lower limbs, anything slower (after training) would be embarrassing.
Try...
http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51138/Marathon-Novice-2-Training-Program
...which is basically "get out three time in the week, and go a bit further at the weekend". 18 weeks - so you have plenty of time.
And aim for four hours. You're 17 for goodness sake! Assuming you have fully-functioning lower limbs, anything slower (after training) would be embarrassing.
In reply to Mark Torrance:
I'm a similar height and weight. They may be 17 but they are currently a bit porky :p
I'm a similar height and weight. They may be 17 but they are currently a bit porky :p
In reply to Mark Torrance: Sorry age on the profile is incorrect and not updated in a long while, I'm 19 now and yeah I'll probably aim for the 4 hour mark. Thanks!
In reply to TomBaker: 19 and ex-rugby player (open-side flanker), it's usually the shoulder bulk that slows me down and get very sore after the race, could do with a bit off the midriff but most of us do moan!
In reply to bradzy_c:
Sorry, I revise:
Aim for four hours. You're under 60 for goodness sake! Assuming you have fully-functioning lower limbs, anything slower (after training) would be embarrassing.
Enjoy the training. Create a spreadsheet now, with a training schedule, what you actually run, and weekly totals, and use it. Find somewhere where you can post what you've been doing (UKC fit club has worked well for me in the past, though I'm wondering if we should have a "this week's running" thread on this forum). Plan other races before and, perhaps more importantly, after the marathon, including fun stuff (trail races, park runs, half marathons).
> (In reply to Mark Torrance) Sorry age on the profile is incorrect...I'm 19 now ...
Sorry, I revise:
Aim for four hours. You're under 60 for goodness sake! Assuming you have fully-functioning lower limbs, anything slower (after training) would be embarrassing.
Enjoy the training. Create a spreadsheet now, with a training schedule, what you actually run, and weekly totals, and use it. Find somewhere where you can post what you've been doing (UKC fit club has worked well for me in the past, though I'm wondering if we should have a "this week's running" thread on this forum). Plan other races before and, perhaps more importantly, after the marathon, including fun stuff (trail races, park runs, half marathons).
In reply to Mark Torrance: That could be a good idea.. fit club is great but its getting very climbing focused.. whats that all about?
Which is great and there's a good vibe, better for the climbers at the moment..
Which is great and there's a good vibe, better for the climbers at the moment..
In reply to Mark Torrance:
if we should have a "this week's running" thread on this forum
great idea! tends to follow the same tread on fell running forum, hugely motivating posts
thanks
Seb
> (In reply to bradzy_c)
if we should have a "this week's running" thread on this forum
great idea! tends to follow the same tread on fell running forum, hugely motivating posts
thanks
Seb
In reply to Removed Usersebastian74:
Not such a huge fan of the FRA one as its just runs.. so little info.. what is better is weekly training logs.. saying you did 20k one off means nothing.. showing that is part of a 160k week is more informative..
> (In reply to Removed UserMark Torrance)
> [...]
>
> if we should have a "this week's running" thread on this forum
>
> great idea! tends to follow the same tread on fell running forum, hugely motivating posts
> thanks
> Seb
> [...]
>
> if we should have a "this week's running" thread on this forum
>
> great idea! tends to follow the same tread on fell running forum, hugely motivating posts
> thanks
> Seb
Not such a huge fan of the FRA one as its just runs.. so little info.. what is better is weekly training logs.. saying you did 20k one off means nothing.. showing that is part of a 160k week is more informative..
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to sebastian74)
> [...]
>
> showing that is part of a 160k week is more informative..
I don't think I'll be posting that anytime soon!> [...]
>
> showing that is part of a 160k week is more informative..
In reply to IainRUK:
true, though at times I look at particular members, yourself for instance, and their weekly averages
true, though at times I look at particular members, yourself for instance, and their weekly averages
In reply to yorkshireman:
I was thinking of something along the same lines that Fit Club, but maybe (a) without a main coordinator and therfore(b) without the stats at the start.
So on Sunday evening (or as soon as possible afterwards) people post saying what exercise they've had each day - on the assumption that most of this will be running in some form.
Participants make an informal commitment to post regularly, and to be honest (so if you've not done much, you still post).
The other people can say encouraging and helpful things.
Fit Club has been brilliant for me in the past, particularly when I was trying to develop a bit more structure in my running. There were lots of times when thinking about the shame of blank days in my Sunday report got me out of the house. It's now very climbing oriented (as is all right and proper, of course). I started to feel a bit embarrassed posting "I ran a bit on a road" yet again.
I was thinking of something along the same lines that Fit Club, but maybe (a) without a main coordinator and therfore(b) without the stats at the start.
So on Sunday evening (or as soon as possible afterwards) people post saying what exercise they've had each day - on the assumption that most of this will be running in some form.
Participants make an informal commitment to post regularly, and to be honest (so if you've not done much, you still post).
The other people can say encouraging and helpful things.
Fit Club has been brilliant for me in the past, particularly when I was trying to develop a bit more structure in my running. There were lots of times when thinking about the shame of blank days in my Sunday report got me out of the house. It's now very climbing oriented (as is all right and proper, of course). I started to feel a bit embarrassed posting "I ran a bit on a road" yet again.
In reply to Mark Torrance: Good idea.. I think that could work.. its a small group.. 5-10.. so no need for summaries..
In reply to IainRUK:
I think we are all losing sight of what is important here. What would we call it?
I think we are all losing sight of what is important here. What would we call it?
In reply to yorkshireman:
[Brad, sorry for stealing your thread.]
I suspect that there might be quite a few people who make use of it. There are quite a few threads here, including my own, which regardless of title are really "I want to talk about what running I've been doing recently but feel like I need to make it into a question".
I can't think of anything imaginative for a name. "Last Weeks Running", plus a number?
[Brad, sorry for stealing your thread.]
I suspect that there might be quite a few people who make use of it. There are quite a few threads here, including my own, which regardless of title are really "I want to talk about what running I've been doing recently but feel like I need to make it into a question".
I can't think of anything imaginative for a name. "Last Weeks Running", plus a number?
In reply to yorkshireman: 'Yorkshireman brags of fantastic runs while IainRUK complains of runs on flat German roads'..
Too long
Too long
In reply to IainRUK:
Yeah not very punchy. Today would be - aborted 10km mostly spent hunting for lost dog that failed to come back after chasing something in the forest, only to be waiting for me hungry when I got home.
Anyway joking aside, I think I'd definitely make use of it - training on my own without a club and no-one to really berate me if I slack off, making a semi-public commitment to training would help from a motivation perspective, and it obviously sounds like a few others would too.
> (In reply to yorkshireman) 'Yorkshireman brags of fantastic runs while IainRUK complains of runs on flat German roads'..
>
> Too long
>
> Too long
Yeah not very punchy. Today would be - aborted 10km mostly spent hunting for lost dog that failed to come back after chasing something in the forest, only to be waiting for me hungry when I got home.
Anyway joking aside, I think I'd definitely make use of it - training on my own without a club and no-one to really berate me if I slack off, making a semi-public commitment to training would help from a motivation perspective, and it obviously sounds like a few others would too.
In reply to bradzy_c: No worries mark, thanks for all the advice guys. I think I'll do that 18 week marathon timetable and throw in a good diet. Common sense would dictate my time can only get better!
Brad
Brad
In reply to IainRUK: German roads arn't always flat either. Definately not flat here. so it would have to be even longer to be right :-S
As I am known for my exact but overly long naming of stuff at work, I'll leave all the witty suggestions to the rest of the posters.
I might join in though once it is up if people don't mind. Rather lonly running on your tod, just might be able to get myself out running more often if I know I will have to do a written walk of shame otherwise
As I am known for my exact but overly long naming of stuff at work, I'll leave all the witty suggestions to the rest of the posters.
I might join in though once it is up if people don't mind. Rather lonly running on your tod, just might be able to get myself out running more often if I know I will have to do a written walk of shame otherwise
In reply to Bob kate bob: Where are you?
I'm in Rostock.. on the North German Plain.. its 3-4 hrs to anything resembling a hill..
Would love to live in the south..
I'm in Rostock.. on the North German Plain.. its 3-4 hrs to anything resembling a hill..
Would love to live in the south..
In reply to IainRUK:
I'm right slap bang in the middle in Kassel at the moment. It's not the alps but it is hilly. Saying that for the moment I am running around a big park which is flat, but aiming later to go up and around the Hercules which is on top of the local hill, not sure I will include the steps though.
The major -ve of here is that it is 2 hours from an international airport.
I'm right slap bang in the middle in Kassel at the moment. It's not the alps but it is hilly. Saying that for the moment I am running around a big park which is flat, but aiming later to go up and around the Hercules which is on top of the local hill, not sure I will include the steps though.
The major -ve of here is that it is 2 hours from an international airport.
In reply to Bob kate bob: Similar here.. I'm 170 K from Hamburg or 250 K from Berlin.. there is a local airport but they just do Spain south germany flights really..
In reply to bradzy_c:
The essential information we're missing is:
What is the furthest you run in training and at what pace?
What's the longest race you've done and in what time?
If you've done a half marathon sub 1:50 then sub 4:00 should be acheivable without 18weeks training. If you've done a 2:00 half then sub 4:20 should be within your grasp.
Ian speaks sense when talking about race pace training runs but only as far as watch the distance. I wouldn't advocate training for a half marathon by running 13miles at half marathon pace. Likewise I think running 20miles at Marathon pace is probably not a great idea either. But it will depend on the individual. Work up gradually.
> (In reply to bradzy_c) No worries mark, thanks for all the advice guys. I think I'll do that 18 week marathon timetable and throw in a good diet. Common sense would dictate my time can only get better!
>
> Brad
>
> Brad
The essential information we're missing is:
What is the furthest you run in training and at what pace?
What's the longest race you've done and in what time?
If you've done a half marathon sub 1:50 then sub 4:00 should be acheivable without 18weeks training. If you've done a 2:00 half then sub 4:20 should be within your grasp.
Ian speaks sense when talking about race pace training runs but only as far as watch the distance. I wouldn't advocate training for a half marathon by running 13miles at half marathon pace. Likewise I think running 20miles at Marathon pace is probably not a great idea either. But it will depend on the individual. Work up gradually.
In reply to Jon Jones:
You do realise this UKC don't you?
Oh wait, I'm in France.
And we're talking about running.
> (In reply to IainRUK)
>
>
> didn't know so many folk off here are in Germany. I'm in Frankfurt
>
>
> didn't know so many folk off here are in Germany. I'm in Frankfurt
You do realise this UKC don't you?
Oh wait, I'm in France.
And we're talking about running.
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