/ boston manhunt

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
ice.solo - on 19 Apr 2013
crazy stuff. anyone else watching?
JayPee630 - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

Yes. Impressively quick finding them. They both look quite young to me. And still wondering what the motivation was.
stonemaster - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo: Nope, just taking break from domestic stuff. No box...:). And salutations by the way.
redsonja - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo: just got in from work and put the news on, so im just catching up with it
BigBrother - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to JayPee630:
> (In reply to ice.solo)
>
> Yes. Impressively quick finding them. They both look quite young to me. And still wondering what the motivation was.

Obviously impossible to say for sure but if the details about the suspects are accurate then it doesn't seem likely to have been either Islamic terrorism or right wingers. My guess is that is just a variation of the school shootings. Unhappy people take out their resentment on society by blowing people up instead of shooting them. I look forward to Obama's pressure cooker control bill.
Postmanpat on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to BigBrother:
> (In reply to JayPee630)
> [...]
>
> Obviously impossible to say for sure but if the details about the suspects are accurate then it doesn't seem likely to have been either Islamic terrorism or right wingers. My guess is that is just a variation of the school shootings. Unhappy people take out their resentment on society by blowing people up instead of shooting them. I look forward to Obama's pressure cooker control bill.
>
US TV saying they have "international links" and have only been in the S a year.
nw - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to BigBrother: What details? Just trying to catch up
DefenderKen on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

BBC News live stream showing streams of Humvee's etc piling in.

Got to love the Americans.

One suspect down, one to go.
redsonja - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo: says the dead suspect is from Chechnya and been living in the US a year
Steve nevers on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo: Best coverage so far had been by a man on reddit, but hes been updating so much hes now crashed the site.
redsonja - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo: correction- both from chechnya
BigBrother - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to nw:
> (In reply to BigBrother) What details? Just trying to catch up

The internet rumour details that change every 15 minutes (I have just seen claims now that they are Russians). There have been strong rumours for a while that one of the suspects was an Indian student who went missing a month ago and was suffering from severe depression.
winhill - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Steve nevers:
> (In reply to ice.solo) Best coverage so far had been by a man on reddit, but hes been updating so much hes now crashed the site.

I hope he's not the reddit guy that sent everyone off on the wild goose chase about the indian sounding guy?

That went 100% bent.
TheDrunkenBakers - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo: The whole situation helped, for a change, by decent CCTV imagery. Normally, these images are grainy and useless but these two imbeciles seemefd to be pretty recognisable.
Steve nevers on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to winhill:
> (In reply to Steve nevers)
> [...]
>
> I hope he's not the reddit guy that sent everyone off on the wild goose chase about the indian sounding guy?
>

Not totally sure but this seems to have just been updating any info he hears in a thread and not getting involved in the discussion. Just giving the facts as he hears them so to speak.
IainRUK - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Steve nevers: yeah the Indian guy was named last night.. but that seems wrong now as NBC are saying two brothers from near Chechnya.. but the BBC won't name them.. just 'Russian sounding name'..

Its great the public are helping but this naming and showing photographs is dangerous.. there was that Morrocan lad who was shown who then had to go to the police and is still scared about potential attacks..

Sounds a crazy day in Boston but at least one is down and hopefully the second is apprehended soon.
dale1968 - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo: sky says there brothers; Dzhokhar Tsarnaev named
drunken monkey - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK: The showing photographs is required Iain, because the suspects are quite likely regarded as being V Dangerous. I'd imagine for them to come out with this information, the FBI etc must have had an inkling as to who they were dealing with.

These type of people tend to NOT go out without a fight.
Sir Chasm - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to dale1968: Probably a communist plot.
winhill - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
> (In reply to ice.solo) The whole situation helped, for a change, by decent CCTV imagery. Normally, these images are grainy and useless but these two imbeciles seemefd to be pretty recognisable.

Er, not if it turns out that they were mis-recognised?
ads.ukclimbing.com
winhill - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to JayPee630:
> (In reply to ice.solo)
>
> Yes. Impressively quick finding them.

They shot a cop, stole his police car, robbed a 7-11 then stole another car.

Not exactly tracked down by impressive detective work.
winhill - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to drunken monkey:
> (In reply to IainRUK) The showing photographs is required Iain, because the suspects are quite likely regarded as being V Dangerous. I'd imagine for them to come out with this information, the FBI etc must have had an inkling as to who they were dealing with.
>
> These type of people tend to NOT go out without a fight.

Now reporting that they started to flee after the pictures were released, which led to the cop dying and the carjack and robbery, so they would be at their most dangerous when trying to escape or flushed out before they could do more harm, depending on your perspective.
TheDrunkenBakers - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to winhill:
> (In reply to TheDrunkenBakers)
> [...]
>
> Er, not if it turns out that they were mis-recognised?

Er, obviously, smart arse, as they could be ruled out quickly if they were not the perpetrators. As appears to be the case, they were correctly identified.

I think some people on UKC would argue black is white just for the sake of an argument. Its very boring.

drunken monkey - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to winhill: Or they could plan other attacks if not found. Its in the yanks interest to find them asap.
IainRUK - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to drunken monkey: More on FB.. people pointing the finger..
Postmanpat on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to winhill:
> (In reply to drunken monkey)
> [...]
>
> Now reporting that they started to flee after the pictures were released, which led to the cop dying and the carjack and robbery, so they would be at their most dangerous when trying to escape or flushed out before they could do more harm, depending on your perspective.
>
Best just to let them go, then.

winhill - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
> (In reply to winhill)
> [...]
>
> Er, obviously, smart arse, as they could be ruled out quickly if they were not the perpetrators. As appears to be the case, they were correctly identified.

WTF????????

IainRUK - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Postmanpat: With these though there was strong evidence pointing to them.. their behaviour.. with the morrocan it was just a asian guy with a rucksack..

This is the US, didn't an indian guy get badly beaten up after 9/11?



winhill - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Postmanpat:
> (In reply to winhill)
> [...]
> Best just to let them go, then.

Er, the FBI say they didn't want them to flee so they held onto the pictures, I guess it's their call.
winhill - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

Police have identified Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, as the "black hat" bombing suspect, killed during the manhunt that followed. Readers have pointed out that Johannes Hirn made Tsarnaev the subject of a photo essay, "Will Box for Passport," taken before the boxer competed at National Golden Gloves competition in Salt Lake City. The captions give us a micro-profile of the suspect.



UPDATE: Justin Hart located Tamerlan's Amazon wishlist. Among the hits:

- How to Make Driver's Licenses and Other ID on Your Home Computer

- The I.D. Forger: Homemade Birth Certificates & Other Documents Explained

- Secrets Of A Back Alley ID Man: Fake Id Construction Techniques Of The Underground

- The Lone Wolf And the Bear: Three Centuries of Chechen Defiance of Russian Rule

- Organized Crime: AN INSIDE GUIDE TO THE WORLD'S MOST SUCCESSFUL INDUSTRY

And, of course...

- How to Win Friends & Influence People


//www.slate.com/stupid_long_sentence_rule

http://preview.tinyurl.com/d4sd8zr
dissonance - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

> This is the US, didn't an indian guy get badly beaten up after 9/11?

there were a few assaults on Sikhs i think.
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to winhill: It is a bit strange that these brothers wouldn't have planned a better get away.

Why were they sticking around in Boston? Then they rob a 7-11? Carjack a car and let the driver go? Clearly they lost all control of the situation, but still seems odd.
dek - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Bjartur í Sumarhús:
The dead one is reported wearing a suicide bomb, so probably no intention of 'vanishing' in the conventional sense?
Dauphin - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Bjartur í Sumarhús:

>Why were they sticking around in Boston? Then they rob a 7-11? Carjack a car >and let the driver go? Clearly they lost all control of the situation, but >still seems odd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudocommando

D
digby - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

> This is the US, didn't an indian guy get badly beaten up after 9/11?

This is the UK, didn't a pediatrician get mistaken for a paedophile?

But I digress. I don't really understand the reaction and risk assessment of this incident in relation to gun crime and massacres, which cause hundreds of deaths each year.

It's unfortunate the perpetrators come from abroad, even if they lived in the states for a long time. It'll only increase the suspicion of travellers.
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Dauphin: Ok, but they didn't blow themselves up, and the carjacking and robbing of 7-11 didn't involve killing members of the public when there was probably ample opportunity.

But who the fck knows? I'm sure once it all started to unravel then decision making became very random
Dauphin - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Dauphin:
In reply to Bjartur í Sumarhús
Since they probably learnt all they did from the internet what do you expect?

Even well trained saboteurs or stay behinds wouldn't be expected to 'keep control' of a situation for very long if you have the whole of the police dept/public/security services shining a light on your attempts at mayhem.

D
The Lemming - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

Its like watching a real-time series of 24 with Jack Baur.

Got to be a film in this within 5 years.

And ain't that FBI spookily fast at finding the terrorists.
Antigua - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to JayPee630:
> (In reply to ice.solo)
>
And still wondering what the motivation was.
There from Chechenia.
Philip on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo:
> crazy stuff. anyone else watching?

Yes. Not as exciting as men in red coats on horses. And fewer dogs.
ads.ukclimbing.com
David Martin - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Antigua:

Seems a bit odd. I quite understand the average Chechnyan having a serious beef with Russia. But the US?

I'm guessing they just became cynical, dissatisfied and marginalised teenagers. Some turn to crime (embracing football hooliganism, radical Islam, gangsterism, right-wing anti-govt militias, whatever niche is most welcoming) and things then escalate way too far.

Not sure I'd bother trying to find a grander motivation, though no doubt it will fuel some hatreds.
Eric9Points - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to The Lemming:
> (In reply to ice.solo)
>
>
> And ain't that FBI spookily fast at finding the terrorists.

You have a theory then?

Mine is that someone recognised the photo and phoned the police but I guess that's a bit naive. Never happens.
dek - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to David Martin:
> (In reply to Antigua)

> Not sure I'd bother trying to find a grander motivation, though no doubt it will fuel some hatreds.

Just normal everyday Islamic jihadists.
Skyfall - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to David Martin:

> Seems a bit odd. I quite understand the average Chechnyan having a serious beef with Russia. But the US?
>
> I'm guessing they just became cynical, dissatisfied and marginalised teenagers. Some turn to crime (embracing football hooliganism, radical Islam, gangsterism, right-wing anti-govt militias, whatever niche is most welcoming) and things then escalate way too far.

Er, aren't they simply Muslims and have become radicalised. I appreciate there will be other factors but it is essentially a religious thing and not which country they are from.
winhill - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to David Martin:
> (In reply to Antigua)
>
> Seems a bit odd. I quite understand the average Chechnyan having a serious beef with Russia. But the US?
>
> I'm guessing they just became cynical, dissatisfied and marginalised teenagers. Some turn to crime (embracing football hooliganism, radical Islam, gangsterism, right-wing anti-govt militias, whatever niche is most welcoming) and things then escalate way too far.
>
> Not sure I'd bother trying to find a grander motivation, though no doubt it will fuel some hatreds.

If you knew much about Chechnya, I'm not sure you'd equate it with a bit of hooliganism. This seems like a desperate (and completely false) attempt to erase and minimise their crimes, fuelled by a backlash to what you see as 'hatred'. Any connection with reality being entirely coincidental.
dissonance - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Skyfall:

> Er, aren't they simply Muslims and have become radicalised. I appreciate there will be other factors but it is essentially a religious thing and not which country they are from.

wow you know all that already?
Thats impressive, whats your source?
richprideaux - on 19 Apr 2013
richprideaux - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to richprideaux:

The link above is a webcam feed to a guy filming his Police radio scanner...
David Martin - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to winhill:

I think you're missing my point.

My "guess", as I said, was that they aren't fighting for Islamic Chechnyan independence as much as they would like to claim. Its simply an easy to grasp rallying point for their general failure to assimilate and get by in US society. Just as a red-neck might join a militia or the unemployable yob becomes a football hooligan. Doesn't make football, opposition to govt or Islam the cause.

So I'm not attempting to minimise their crimes (I'd be interested to know what leads you to think that). Instead and somewhat in response to a news article I saw on Google News which made grand mention of Afghanistan, Al Quaida, Islamic radicalism, the Taliban, etc, I'm venturing the idea that this actually had little to do with those grand labels. It is, afterall, and as the bombers Amazon reading list makes clear, very easy to become a "home-grown" terrorist/bomber, flying under any flag you so wish to do so. Seizing on Islam as the central factor in this one, as is certain to happen, might be a little short sighted.
Eric9Points - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Skyfall:
> (In reply to David Martin)
>
> [...]
>
> Er, aren't they simply Muslims and have become radicalised.

You know they're muslim?
redsonja - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Eric9Points: yes, their uncle said so
IainRUK - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to heidi123: Their uncle isn't their biggest fan...
redsonja - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK: no, I know he isn't. he didn't say they were radical or anything- just that they were muslim
IainRUK - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to heidi123: and losers... he's pretty angry..
redsonja - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK: not surprising. poor guy
Skyfall - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

he has anger management issues....
IainRUK - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Skyfall: I imagine he's kind of stressed.. poor guy.

Its a horrible sequence of events.. I still can't get that picture of the bag behind the 8 year old.

At times I feel sympathy for the bombers.. especially the youngest.. just what happened.. how were they turned.. but then you see that photo and it is evil personified.. heart breaking. A whole family, mother with brain injuries.. daughter no leg.. son dead..

There was talk about why this is news over Iraq.. this is why.. the guy with no legs is why.. its been so graphic.. we've seen it all. Even in Germany this has dominated.

Timmd on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to dek:
> (In reply to David Martin)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> Just normal everyday Islamic jihadists.

I gather that technically, it's Islamism, such people are Islamists, which is different to them being Islamic - which is simply being a Muslim. Being a Muslim is not the same thing as having the world view of an Islamist, which is what motivates people to carry out terrorist attacks, ie the world view that Musliims are under attack around the world, and in the case of terorists that they need to do things like setting off bombs to fight back.



Timmd on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:I've just seen one of the pictues of the guy with no legs, it's difficult to get your head around and grasp it's actually happened to somebody.
IainRUK - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Timmd: Its just awful. Seeing his shocked pale face.. haunting.
ads.ukclimbing.com
MG - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Timmd:
> (In reply to dek)
> [...]
>
> I gather that technically, it's Islamism, such people are Islamists, which is different to them being Islamic - which is simply being a Muslim.

Isn't it more all Musliams are Islamic but not necessarily Islamist? But in this case they are both (we assume).
Skyfall - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

I have a lot of sympathy with their family but, personally, I wouldn't give interviews unless asked to by the police. In fact, I think it's quite unfair to even interview the father and present it almost as something rational and informative, which it clearly isn't. You can pretty much discount what he has said and their uncle is probably trying to distance his family from them whilst, I imagine, being genuinely upset. As he has very recently said, the reality is that the surviving brother is a dead man - unless he finds a way to surrender extremely neutrally or gets lucky.

One of my relations had his legs blown off in an IRA car bombing and I was told whilst I was at work. So I know a little about how it feels to have family involvement on the receiving end, not in private, and I suppose I have more sympathy on that side. Still, these guys probably had their reasons even if it was incredibly misguided, immature by the looks of it, and for so many reasons plain wrong.
Timmd on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to MG:
> (In reply to Timmd)
> [...]

> Isn't it more all Musliams are Islamic but not necessarily Islamist?

Yes, you're right.

> But in this case they are both (we assume).

Quite possibly, or very likely, though one doesn't have to lead to the other.

I guess you'd get non Islamist Muslims saying that terrorists are not really Muslims if they do things like this, but that's a different topic.
Bruce Hooker - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Timmd:

> I gather that technically, it's Islamism, such people are Islamists, which is different to them being Islamic

He said Islamic jihadists, not just plain vanilla muslims. Whatever, the term doesn't matter that much, fundamentalists, islamist extremists, islamlic terrorists etc are all used loosely to mean much the same thing.
Timmd on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to Timmd) Its just awful. Seeing his shocked pale face.. haunting.

That and the aftermath of dealing with what's happened to him. I can't begin to think how he'd start to rebuild his life and come to terms with it.

dek - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

> There was talk about why this is news over Iraq.. this is why.. the guy with no legs is why.. its been so graphic.. we've seen it all. Even in Germany this has dominated.
Saw that image by chance today, don't think I'll ever forget it!

Timmd on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
> (In reply to Timmd)
>
> [...]
> He said Islamic jihadists, not just plain vanilla muslims. Whatever, the term doesn't matter that much, fundamentalists, islamist extremists, islamlic terrorists etc are all used loosely to mean much the same thing.

Which some see as a problem. If the term Islamic Jihadist is used for a terorist (who is actually an Islamist), what's to stop somebody mentally linking them to an Islamic scholar?

To your average secular westerner it's perhaps not much of a problem when living day to day, but with attacks on Muslims having increased since 9/11, for Muslims it can be a much bigger problem.
winhill - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Timmd:
> (In reply to dek)
> [...]
>
> I gather that technically, it's Islamism, such people are Islamists, which is different to them being Islamic - which is simply being a Muslim. Being a Muslim is not the same thing as having the world view of an Islamist, which is what motivates people to carry out terrorist attacks.

This is completely inaccurate Tim, for all the attempted worthiness.

You could be an islamist and be a pacifist. Islamism is a political doctrine an extremist is perhaps what you're thinking of. Jihadist is probably more accurate than your Islamist definition.

winhill - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

Police have a guy trapped in a boat in Watertown, they think they may have shot him.

http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive/
Timmd on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to winhill:
> (In reply to Timmd)
> [...]
>
> This is completely inaccurate Tim, for all the attempted worthiness.


http://www.google.co.uk/#q=definition+of+islamism&hl=en&ei=1tVxUZG3FKjM0AW74YFg&start=0&...

Atually, it isn't completely inaccurate. To be in Islamist CAN mean to be an advocate of spreading Islam around the whole world by whatever means are needed, including violence, or it can mean something else.

What does seem apparant, is that Jihadist are Islamists of the kind i've mentioned, if that is the definition one is using for an Islamist. See the PDF file on the 5th link down.

> You could be an islamist and be a pacifist. Islamism is a political doctrine an extremist is perhaps what you're thinking of. Jihadist is probably more accurate than your Islamist definition.

Islamism needn't mean that one isn't peacefull, that is true.
ice.solo - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to winhill:

Boat huh. Never a good move.
dek - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo:
Captured alive, will have to wait a bit longer for his celestial virgins!
Dauphin - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

Odd he didn't save a bullet for himself, no chair in Massachusetts and life in solitary is a long long time.

D
ice.solo - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Dauphin:

A fitting end for a coward
Kimono - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo:
A coward? Really? Hmm, though that's the mass media term for such people, cowardice is not what i think was involved.
In a strange way i think it takes an incredible amount of guts and conviction to go through with something like this knowing that you are going to either die or have to live with the consequences of these awful deeds for the rest of your life.

How dies it come to this, that two young men think that they can make the world a better place and themselves happier people by killing and maiming innocents.

Im really baffled...
ice.solo - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to kieran b:

They anonymously bombed innocents then ran away. Cowards.
ice.solo - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to kieran b:

my previous reply was too in haste, the subject deserves a bettter discussion.

i think them as cowards because they stood up for nothing, in a way that endangered themselves as little as possible, then retreated when confronted. they were afraid of something, yet rather than stand up to it or put themselves on the line they tried to get away with the random victimizing of genuine innocents.

if these two assholes had bombed a military base it would be different. or if theyd taken on something relative to a cause. but they didnt.
for whatever it was that bugged them enough to kill people, they took the most cowardly path to acheive it.

guts and conviction, i actually agree - but only in having a plan - the execution of it was a series of cowardly acts. history is full of those brave enough to talk big but who act small when faced with the reality.
cowardice is not being afraid, its the act of making fear determine your actions, and these two assholes did just that.

i agree too that the media has watered down the application of 'coward' to insult and downplay much of the terrorism situation, but in this case i think it applies. these were not two iraqis taking on a military base in a final act of faith for their cause, these were two students who thought they wouldnt get caught. that they chose such an easy, indiscriminate target says a lot. any wannabe martyr or hero who targets those who cant defend themselves is no better.

your last two sentences i concurr with as well.
mrbird - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo: Have they been found guilty?
ice.solo - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to mrbird:
> (In reply to ice.solo) Have they been found guilty?

nope. but the cowardice still stands for whoever did it.
mrbird - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo: Absolutely mate. Disgusting that anybody could do that to another human let alone an innocent civilian.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Timmd on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to mrbird:Can't get the image of the guy without his legs out of my head when I think of the bmbing now, it's his arteries waving about beyond the ends of his legs/stumps. Enough to make you go cold.
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

It's amazing how easily people believe what their told through the media, American and British governments have openly admitted they have carried out incidents like Boston.

The surviving so called terrorist, hasn't been arrested but labeled a militant, meaning he doesn't have to stand trial. What evidence has anyone seen to suggest we really do know who did it. Absolutely non at all, being Chechnyan doesn't automatically mean your a terrorist.

A day before these two guys were implicated, the FBI released a statement saying they had a young American in custody, the court house was then raided by the "army" and all news teams evacuated. Then the storey changed.

Just don't believe everything you hear, in a free country your allowed to ask questions and disagree.
IainRUK - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer: I think he will stang trial, he just wasnt read his miranda rights..

I expect he'll face a state court, a federal court gave McVeigh the death penalty but he killed 8 federal agents.. he wasn't tried for killing the other 160.

When have we ever bombed a marathon?

The rest of your post is just conspiracy rubbish.. especially the allowed to question..
off-duty - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to ice.solo)
>

> The surviving so called terrorist, hasn't been arrested but labeled a militant, meaning he doesn't have to stand trial.
>
>
> Just don't believe everything you hear, in a free country your allowed to ask questions and disagree.

Generally speaking I find that it's best to make an effort to understand what you are talking about before you start disagreeing and spouting conspiracy theories.
Here's a link to start you off : - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to off-duty:

I knew abit of abuse would come my way, you believe what your told, even though we all know the media are full of non sense. We ignore all the signs. Anyone believing in anything but what the governments say is a conspiracist.

You have to look at the facts, yet we never get them.
off-duty - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to off-duty)
>
> I knew abit of abuse would come my way, you believe what your told, even though we all know the media are full of non sense. We ignore all the signs. Anyone believing in anything but what the governments say is a conspiracist.
>
> You have to look at the facts, yet we never get them.

Fact 1

Witholding Miranda rights has nothing to do with "being labelled a militant" or "not facing trial".
IainRUK - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer: Wow.. you've ignored the facts..
IainRUK - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer: The evidence does suggest he's guilty.. you want to believe someone else did it.. but have no evidence at all..
ThunderCat - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to off-duty)
>
> I knew abit of abuse would come my way, you believe what your told, even though we all know the media are full of non sense. We ignore all the signs. Anyone believing in anything but what the governments say is a conspiracist.
>
> You have to look at the facts, yet we never get them.

We never let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory dude.

Whats the word on this one? Was it really a Homeland Security drill gone a bit tits up? Bit too much gunpowder in the keg? Did the energy beam devices finally cool down enough from 9/11 to use again here? Bigfoot?

Has Sircumfrence commented yet?

xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

Why are you taking it personally.

Why does what I say annoy you so much

Because you think your being moral, yet you sit at home watching the bullshit that the media are told to tell you. And believe every word when it comes to terrorism.

I bet you believed the Iraq invasion was ok, or that Julian Assange is a nutcase because he has released millions of documents showing what the USA government is really like
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

What evidence?
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ThunderCat:

More like thunder sheep
ThunderCat - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to ThunderCat)
>
> More like thunder sheep##

Read a lot of Oscar Wilde, do you?

xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ThunderCat:

Non of us know the facts, and that's simple.

Just don't believe everything you hear.

You think your a decent hard working model citizen, yet you attack anyone who dares to go against the government. I bet the government benefit cuts hit you hard
IainRUK - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer: disagreeing with you isn't taking things personally..
off-duty - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
> or that Julian Assange is a nutcase because he has released millions of documents showing what the USA government is really like


Julian Assange is a nutcase because he seems to think that Ecuador is a country with a greater belief in human rights than Sweden.
ThunderCat - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to ThunderCat)
>
> Non of us know the facts, and that's simple.
>
> Just don't believe everything you hear.
>
> You think your a decent hard working model citizen, yet you attack anyone who dares to go against the government. I bet the government benefit cuts hit you hard

I've claimed jobseekers allowance for a total of 2 months in 20 years of work (about 3 years ago).

Do you have any other completely wrong and irrelevant comments?
IainRUK - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer: The fact he was filmed with a rucksack then calmly walking away without one..

His brother was known to be a potential threat..

He was throwing improvised devices at the police during the chase...

He tweeted about not smoking at the marathon.. months ago..

xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ThunderCat:

I think UKC were responsible
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ThunderCat:

Your comments are pretty irrelevant to if I'm honest
ads.ukclimbing.com
ThunderCat - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to ThunderCat)
>
> Non of us know the facts, and that's simple.
>
> Just don't believe everything you hear.
>
> You think your a decent hard working model citizen, yet you attack anyone who dares to go against the government. I bet the government benefit cuts hit you hard

And I wasn't attacking anyone...just commenting.

It's just the internet you know, there's no need to get militant and defensive..
ThunderCat - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to ThunderCat)
>
> Your comments are pretty irrelevant to if I'm honest

No, please don't change the subject - I'm still interested in the benefits comment.

<grabs popcorn>

xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:


In reply to xplorer: The fact he was filmed with a rucksack then calmly walking away without one..
Is that a crime, I reckon Afew people did the same thing on that day

His brother was known to be a potential threat..
Potential means absolutely nothing

He was throwing improvised devices at the police during the chase...
Where's the evidence of this, where did he get them from.

He tweeted about not smoking at the marathon.. months ago..
Well he is defiantly guilty then isn't he
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ThunderCat:

Your comment is still irrelevant is it not
ThunderCat - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
>
>
> In reply to xplorer: The fact he was filmed with a rucksack then calmly walking away without one..
> Is that a crime, I reckon Afew people did the same thing on that day
>
> His brother was known to be a potential threat..
> Potential means absolutely nothing
>
> He was throwing improvised devices at the police during the chase...
> Where's the evidence of this, where did he get them from.
>
> He tweeted about not smoking at the marathon.. months ago..
> Well he is defiantly guilty then isn't he


Don't forget that his mother has said they were set up by the FBI. All the facts are falling into place
IainRUK - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer: Well yes..

OK he's been framed... there's questioning and there's being ignorant and closed minded.

Occams Razor..
IainRUK - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
>
>
> In reply to xplorer: The fact he was filmed with a rucksack then calmly walking away without one..
> Is that a crime, I reckon Afew people did the same thing on that day
>

Yes if there is a bomb in it..
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ThunderCat:

That's pretty disrespectful don't you think.

ThunderCat - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to ThunderCat)
>
> Your comment is still irrelevant is it not

I'll answer that if you stop changing the subject and tell me where me claiming benefits (which I don't) came from and why it would be relevant were it correct.

You're allowed to admit to the world that you're wrong you know. It's a sign of maturity and might garner you a bit of kudos and respect.

<continues eating popcorn>

xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

Yes if there is a bomb in it..



You used the word "IF"
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ThunderCat:

Show me evidence to prove me wrong, I'd take some of your own advice if I were you.

I know your type mate, your a sheep
ThunderCat - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to ThunderCat)
>
> That's pretty disrespectful don't you think.


What is?

(remember, this is the internet with lots of posts - you need to be more specific).

Was it my comment about his mum saying they were innocent? I'm quoting here directly...not sure whats disrespectful about that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22229263

IainRUK - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer: wow..

Look the facts are two bombs went off..

He was seen calmly walking away.

He was described by a witness.

He was seen placing the bag in the position.

Seriously you're just coming across as deluded.. not questioning..
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ThunderCat:

You really are quite rude, sick and immature aren't you.
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

And how do you know this
ThunderCat - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to ThunderCat)
>
> Show me evidence to prove me wrong, I'd take some of your own advice if I were you.
>
> I know your type mate, your a sheep

The onus is generally on you to prove that your theories are correct. It's very hard (and an unfair burden) to ask someone else to prove you wrong.

The same way I don't have to prove that bigfoot doesn't exist...it's generally up to the nutcases to provide evidence he DOES exist. That's generally how the world works.

Now, back to the benefits question, or are you going to avoid it for ever?
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

What's your views on the reason we invaded Iraq
IainRUK - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer: shit you're right.. I've been lied to by the big evil goverment who killed 3 citizens to justify another war.. even though there will be no military response..
IainRUK - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer: See the thread title?
off-duty - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:

I guess, having been identified in photographs as the suspects they could have contacted the media and announced who they were like this guy:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2311248/Sala-Barhoum-track-star-teenager-denies-involvement-...

Or they could kill a police officer, carjack a car and get involved in a long shoot out with police officers.

I'm confident that whatever they did you would still prefer to believe that they were stooges in a government conspiracy rather than suspects in the Boston bombing, as you seem able to come to that conclusion without any of your beloved "facts" at all.
ads.ukclimbing.com
ThunderCat - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to ThunderCat)
>
> You really are quite rude, sick and immature aren't you.

One of us is making irrelevant (and incorrect) assumptions about the other and refusing to justify themselves.

And it's you

So no. I think I've been quite polite and mature about this.

Benefits?

IainRUK - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to ThunderCat)
>
> Show me evidence to prove me wrong, I'd take some of your own advice if I were you.
>
> I know your type mate, your a sheep

For a start it's you're...

No, you show some evidence. You question but you've entered this with an already closed mind that he didn't do it...

You want to think he's been set up..
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

No military response, have you seen the scenes in the US

And I'm pretty sure there will be some military revenge. Look at what bush did after 9/11.

He invaded two countries and killed millions
off-duty - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to ThunderCat)
>
> Show me evidence to prove me wrong, I'd take some of your own advice if I were you.
>
> I know your type mate, your a sheep

Evidence. Yes that would be nice. Do you have any to support your theory?
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to off-duty:

Have you got evidence to support yours
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

So so sorry about my spelling and grammar IAN

Your really do need to get a grip if someone else's spelling hurts you that much
dale1968 - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer: this is classy comedy!
IainRUK - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:

Then you mis read the response this time.. it is much less angry..


After 9/11 there was huge anger and a huge mandate to go to War. Bush was the most popular president ever during that time, unprecedented cross party support.

This time no one wants war, there is no natural target.

So if you think they set this up to create a war why use two chechyan lads?

Why not use Iranian? or North Korean? They won't go near Chechnya.
IainRUK - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer: It's not spelling.. you are using the wrong words..

It just highlights your ignorance.
ThunderCat - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to off-duty)
>
> Have you got evidence to support yours

I have a feeling that a live confession, videos of himself preparing the explosives, planting them, setting them off and then high fiving his brother singing "Yay, we got the f*ckers!" would still be put down as a conspiracy theory in your mind.

Anyhoo - back to me and benefits. Are you going to answer that one?

Are you Subalpine?

off-duty - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to off-duty)
>
> Have you got evidence to support yours

My theory being that they are suspects in the Boston bombing?

Well they have been identified as suspects by the FBI. The ya ppear to have been present at the scene in numerous photographs on the web/news media/police releases. They don't appear to have been too keen on co-operating with any enquiries to eliminate themselves from the investigation.

I'm sure we'll see whether they are guilty or not when/if they get charged and go to trial.
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

And your response shows how childish you are
ThunderCat - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
>
> And your response shows how childish you are

Hilarious.



xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ThunderCat:

You definitely have been touched by the benefits comment haven't you
xplorer on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ThunderCat:

You bunch of bullies you
IainRUK - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer: Yet you can insult people for claiming benefits? Then get all upset...

As said, we've listed the evidence against the lad, show come evidence that your view holds any credibility?
ThunderCat - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to ThunderCat)
>
> You definitely have been touched by the benefits comment haven't you

Not at all, it just seemed very random. I'm struggling to see why it was relevant to the conversation and where it came from, why you assumed I was on benefits, and why you seem reluctant to answer a very, very simple question.

That's all.

I'm killing time before I have to go out and pick up the missus and this is hilarious.

ThunderCat - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to ThunderCat:

Anyhoo, I have been summoned by the missus and have to vanish :(

Laters, potaters.
Eric9Points - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

Given that there was at least one large piece of bomb found, about 3/4 of the bottom bit of a pressure cooker, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some forensic evidence to link them to it.

I guess they'll have been through the suspects' homes with fine toothed combs by now and who knows what else they'll have found.

I guess to be fair though, it is possible of course that they found two people who look just like the folk who were seen dumping rucsacs (more feoreensic evidence there as well I guess) who just happen to get really alamed when a policeman turned so they shot him had a gun battle with more police, hijacked a car etc .. because they were entirely innocent and were genuinely alarmed at the heavy handed attitude of the police. Or something like that.
IainRUK - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Eric9Points: Some more here:

Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick revealed on Sunday that surveillance video from the Boston Marathon attack shows one suspect dropping his backpack and calmly walking away from it before the bomb inside it exploded.

The video clearly puts 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev at the scene of the attack, Patrick said on NBC.

'It does seem to be pretty clear that this suspect took the backpack off, put it down, did not react when the first explosion went off and then moved away from the backpack in time for the second explosion,' Patrick said. 'It's pretty clear about his involvement and pretty chilling, frankly.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2312486/Dzhokhar-Tsarnaev-Boston-bombing-suspect-gun-mouth-f...
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Of course it could be a set up.. highly unlikely...
ads.ukclimbing.com
ice.solo - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

how about that II footage from 'the boat'? wild stuff.
then the armoured vehicle that went in, marksmen etc.

in parrallel: last weekend a drug f*cked nutter took a hostage in japan, up on a roof with a knife etc. nothing compared to the boston thing, but it got live telly broadcast.
interesting way they nailed him - waited till the sun went down, blinded him with halogen lights then beat the shit out of him with batons.
Timmd on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo:Better for him than shooting him dead.
In reply to Timmd:
> (In reply to ice.solo)Better for him than shooting him dead.

Who has been shot dead?

Chief Deveau also disclosed dramatic details of the shoot-out, in which Tamerlan was killed, and revealed how, in the chaos, his death was caused by Dzhokhar.
A single officer was first to encounter the fugitives at 12.30am local time on Friday in a residential street in Watertown, a suburb of Boston.
They were in two separate vehicles, including a four-wheel-drive Mercedes they had carjacked.
Chief Deveau said: “They jump out of the cars and unload on our police officer. They both came out shooting. Shooting guns, handguns. He’s under direct fire, very close by.
“He has to jam it in reverse and try to get himself a little distance.”
As five other officers arrived, 200 shots were fired in 10 minutes. One of the brothers threw exploding devices including a pressure cooker bomb which landed on a car.
Tamerlan then broke cover and walked directly at officers firing a gun. The police chief said: “They were having a gunfight 10 feet apart. And then for us, thank God, he ran out of ammunition. He runs out of ammunition, the bad guy, and so one of my police officers comes off the side and tackles him in the street.”
As they tried to handcuff him, Dzhokhar drove the Mercedes straight at them but missed the police, hitting his own brother and dragging him 20ft before racing off.
Chief Deveau said: “The officers dive out of the way and he (Dzhokhar) drives over his brother and drags him a short distance down the street.”
Doctors said Tamerlan had injuries “head to toe”. There were so many they did not know which one had killed him.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10009356/Boston-marathon-bomber-Dzhokhar-...
BigBrother - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat: Sounds to me as if these US police are all really bad shots and desperately need retraining.
dale1968 - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to BigBrother: most Americans I have met are very good shots, maybe they were slightly distracted?
IainRUK - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to BigBrother: It sounded like they'd decided to die that night..

I don't think the police wanted them dead as there are too many questions. But the younger one tried to kill himself by all accounts.

ice.solo - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

interesting no film of this exists.
In reply to ice.solo:
> (In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat)
>
> interesting no publicly available film of this exists at this moment in time.

:o)

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.