/ Totally Safe HVS/E1

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Ciderslider - on 19 Apr 2013
Advice please - I am after really well protected Routes in the Peak on which to push my grade - have done alot of the classic VS routes on stanage (Heather Wall, Hargreaves Original, Ellis's Eliminate, Mississippi Buttress Direct, Hell Crack, Central Trinity - also the Mall at Millstone) and found them all fairly easy.
What I want to do is take the next step up as safely as I can without scaring myself to death !

Thinking along the lines of Goliath's Groove, Right Unconquerable (and poss left) Queersville etc
Also Bond St at Millstone

Cheers

Mark
Milesy - on 19 Apr 2013
Sport Climbing? :D
dutybooty - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: Theres a hard HVS at Castle Naze called Ledgeway. But it is only one move really, but the move is extremely well protected if you can get the gear in that strenuous position!

Theres a few other good HVS's there and some pretty hard VSs there to get your technique up. Definately worth a trip.

Went for the first time 2 weeks ago, I'm off there again tommorrow.
deacondeacon - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: terrazza crack is safe and on the hvs/E1 border, or if you're not overly keen on cracks how about flying buttress direct?
Jeepers creepers at high neb is very safe too.
They're all on the cusp of the grade and all protectable without too much trouble.

There's an hvs Ticklist for stanage in the logbooks , work through them and you'll be doing well. Good thing about grit at this grade is you can normally tell if its going to be bold when you're standing underneath it. :)
deacondeacon - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: queersville has a tricky little crux low down with awkward to place (well) gear. Ive seen a couple of falls from there and they were but quite nasty. Nothing broken but both climbers were shaken up.
CurlyStevo - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
The start of queersville never struck me as that well protected.

Agony crack is well protected if you get all the gear in right and have an attentive belayer for the start.

Dovers Wall Route 2 also has good gear

Bond St and Great North Road are very well protected.
alooker - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: my first e1 was delectable direct at lawrencefield, bomber gear. I think my head held me back more than my climbing ability then so this helped.

Flying buttress is the classic HVS/e1 stop gap for me
johncoxmysteriously - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to deacondeacon:

C'mon man, Flying Buttress Direct is definitely not "very well protected".

Agree Queersville's not terribly wp either.

As to the OP, any of the usual cracks will obviously do. Nothing that's *very* well protected but isn't a crack comes to mind.

jcm
victim of mathematics - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

The hard bit of Queersville is well protected, but there is a bold section below it where falling off would be a bad idea. It was one of my first HVSs and it isn't hard, it just requires you not to totally freak out.

Also at Stanage Lancashire Wall is right on the cusp of VS/HVS and pretty safe. Dover's Wall Route 2 is a good shout (although it requires a bit of willpower not to slink off right at the top). Goliath's Groove is easy if you can thrutch, but desperate if you can't (apparently) and you can protect it well if you have a reasonably largeish cam.

Your best bet, though, is to go to Millstone. There's loads of great HVSs and they're all pretty safe. Bond Street is probably the softest (assuming you're at least vaguely proficient at jamming). Great North Road, Great Portland Street, Lyon's Corner House and (apparently - I've not done it yet) Plexity are all three star, well-protected outings. There's the Embankment routes to go at afterwards if you fancy some well-protected E points.
John Gillott - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Totally Safe doesn't exist of course (not that you necessarily meant to imply it does in your thread title). One thing to watch our for on Peak grit routes is that the ground is often far enough away to do serious damage if you hit it, but near enough that one or two pieces either ripping or skipped can make hitting it likely. I saw a terrible fall a few years ago off the 'totally safe' Left Unconquerable. The leader hadn't placed the obvious bomber gear in the crack before the crux, opting instead for a quickly placed Friend in the horizontal break, in part due to inexperience, it seemed, and in part because they were getting tired and rushing. They fell off, the gear in the break ripped, they fell out of my sight and I feared the worst. Thankfully they stopped a few feet off the ground.

So, moral of the story, safe routes aren't safe if you feel the urge to push on past good gear because of tiredness / place it poorly.
CurlyStevo - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to victim of mathematics:
the left hand variation to "Lyon's Corner House" that is mentioned as being well protected in one of the guides has lot rock / placements and doesn't 'look' that well protected now.
Bulls Crack - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Great Portland Street at HVS 5a/b
Left Unconquerable?
deacondeacon - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to deacondeacon)
>
> C'mon man, Flying Buttress Direct is definitely not "very well protected".

There's good gear for every move, Yes it's commiting and unless you're a pretty strong climber you're going to struggle to reverse the move, but if you're competent at placing gear you'd have a job to hurt yourself.



alooker - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to deacondeacon: agreed, I don't think there is a route in the peak that's fallen off (in relative safety) as much
Ciderslider - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Would really like a go at FBD but am worried that I might not have big enough balls (it's getting decent gear in that first break with the heel hook that scares me) would have no problems seconding, but to lead ??????
What about The Link ????

Also should I shout "take" "watch me " or "would you kindly take in please belayer" before I fall off ;-)
(sorry couldn't resist)
Ciderslider - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to deacondeacon: Looking at it I just think for me it would be a head game - getting that/those cams in the first break (and then worrying that they would rip if I fell. Think I'm more than strong enough, just think I need to grow some.
But thanks anyway
Ciderslider - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Bulls Crack:
> (In reply to Ciderslider)

> Left Unconquerable?

Yeh, I was under the impression that you could build a bomb shelter just before the 2-3 move crux, then jugs - which sounds perfect for me.

John_Hat - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Few E1's at Millstone where you could place gear every six inches if you wanted.
Ciderslider - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to John Gillott: Cheers, not me I err on the side of 'lace it up" if I'm on something at the top of my game - which that I think would be.
Ciderslider - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to John_Hat: Do tell - which are easiest - I know it's not E1 but I like the look of Dexterity
Coel Hellier - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

> Yeh, I was under the impression that you could build a bomb shelter just before the 2-3 move crux, ...

You indeed can, though it is a bit steep there and not that restful ...
Cake - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
> What about The Link ????

I was just thinking of that one (and Congo Corner of course). I think the overhang is not much harder than the initial crack - particularly if you don't mind putting your weight on perfect hand jams. Although the top slab seems intimidating to me.

Superb Croton Oil at Rivelin had wonderful gear, but not Blizzard ridge. Nonsuch if you're feeling good is safe

Of course, there's Suicide Wall, which is safe, two pitches and possibly the best HVS in the Peak. Possibly E1 in one pitch.

Baron's Wall is safe and hard.

And no-one's ever fallen out of BAW's crawl

Cake
The Ivanator - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: My Peak gritstone experience is very limited, but from what I've done I would say that Saul's Crack at the Roaches HVS 5a fits your criteria well. Protectable throughout and a quality line.
Postmanpat on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to victim of mathematics:
> (In reply to Ciderslider)
>
>
> Your best bet, though, is to go to Millstone. There's loads of great HVSs and they're all pretty safe. Bond Street is probably the softest (assuming you're at least vaguely proficient at jamming). Great North Road, Great Portland Street, Lyon's Corner House and (apparently - I've not done it yet) Plexity are all three star, well-protected outings. There's the Embankment routes to go at afterwards if you fancy some well-protected E points.
>
Spot on.

Cake - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
> Do tell - which are easiest
Embankment 3 is hard and I thought Time for tea original was too was too, but easier. Not done Emb4.

Oh yeah, Strapiombante is well safe, soft and not *that* cracky unlike almost all the other suggestions
johncoxmysteriously - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

FDB - from what I remember the cam is strenuous and a little blind to place. I don't remember whether you do it hanging from a heel or reaching
out.

In my opinion, echoing John G, a route where one piece, placed in a pressing position, stands between you and disaster is never 'totally safe'.

I once saw someone fall off from above the roof and hurtle down in an inverted position, coming very close to the slab.

My opinion is that this route is not at all a good one to be pushing your grade on.

jcm
gribble - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Sorrels Sorrow is just about HVS, but involves a certain style. Lots o' gear though, and enormous fun. And then there's the rest of the HVSs at Curbar!
victim of mathematics - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Cake:
ms intimidating to me.
>
> Superb Croton Oil at Rivelin had wonderful gear, but not Blizzard ridge. Nonsuch if you're feeling good is safe

Croton Oil is a good call, but I have no idea why people think Blizzard Ridge isn't well protected. You're never more than a meter or two above good gear. Nonsuch looks utterly horrendous, but safe.

>
> Of course, there's Suicide Wall, which is safe, two pitches and possibly the best HVS in the Peak. Possibly E1 in one pitch.

Never E1 in one pitch, since you can lie down in the Bower for as long as you like. Much better to do it in one, but no harder.

>
> Baron's Wall is safe and hard.

And VS in the new guide (!). And has desperate unprotected 5b/5c moves at a rather unpleasant height of the ground. I wouldn't recommend it to anybody, since it's not even particularly good.


Martin Brown on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to gribble:

I enjoyed Long Tall Sally? (Burbage Nth)
JamButty - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
Unconquerables, Millstone cracks, Froggatt - Chequers Buttress, Todys Wall.
Gardoms - Moyers Buttress

But I'd give the best vote to Croton Oil!

Bulls Crack - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Freddies Finale? Runs away cackling.....
johncoxmysteriously - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to victim of mathematics:

Oh, it is. The boulder problem's OK, and the top crack is lovely.

jcm
Ciderslider - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Thanks mate, that's kinda what I thought
999thAndy on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: Are you dead set on the peak? There are loads of suitable routes in Yorkshire.

I'd recommend Senility at Heptonstall followed by Grindley's Grunt then Thin Red Line.
Coel Hellier - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

How about:

Leaning Buttress Direct, Stanage, HVS 5b. Safe 5b moves off a ledge (may be run-out for the far-easier remainder).

Cave Arete, Stanage, HVS 5a/5b. Good gear.

Tody's Wall, Froggatt, HVS 5a. Gear at your waist for the hard move.

Chequers Buttress, Froggatt, HVS/E1 5b. Plenty of gear.

Avalanche Wall, Curbar, HVS-ish. Plenty of gear.

Maupassant, Curbar, HVS 5a. Plenty of gear.

Zapple, Yarncliffe, HVS

Good Friday, Stanage HVS. This feels a little bold, but is actually safe.

Valkyrie Froggatt, HVS. Plenty of gear.

Millsom's Minion Stanage, E1, pretty safe with cams.

Morrison's Redoubt Stanage, E1, if you can pluck up courage to make the first moves it is safe after that.

Strapiombante Froggatt, E1, Plenty of gear.

Mississippi Variant Direct, Stanage, E1, enough gear. One hard reachy bit.

Embankment 3 and 4, both E1, both have loads of gear.
Ciderslider - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: Yeh, don't get chance to climb outside much (living in sussex) have done a couple of trips up there and love it.
victim of mathematics - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Coel Hellier:

> Cave Arete, Stanage, HVS 5a/5b. Good gear.

I nearly suggested that, but the gear is below your feet when you're doing the crux. You're not likely to hurt yourself, but it's still more of a mental than a physical test at HVS.
alooker - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: if you're just looking for the grade tick/a bit of a confidence boost into hvs then Wednesday climb at burbage north is basically a boulder problem with a path on top
victim of mathematics - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to alooker:

Ha ha :)
Coel Hellier - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Just to correct the Eastern Grit bias of the thread:

Joint Effort, HVS 5a, Staden (if it's not banned).

Pocket Symphony, E1, Beeston (loads of threads).

Yew Tree Wall, E1, Dovedale (lots of gear).

Pebbledash, HVS, Roaches (safe).

Rubberneck, HVS, Five Clouds (enough gear to start, then plenty)

Slowhand, E1, Hen Cloud

Safety Net. E1, Skyline

Ocean Wall, E1, Standing Stones (take loads of cams around 0, 0.5, 1)
deepsoup - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to gribble:
> Sorrels Sorrow is just about HVS, but involves a certain style. Lots o' gear though, and enormous fun.

The crux isn't very high though, and it'd be difficult to hang about to truly lace it. The offwidthy bit further up needs a big cam to be "totally safe".

Dexterity at Millstone has already been mentioned - lace the crack then eschew the 'cop-out' left hand finish. If you can jam the crux is at the top, if you can't it's crux all the way up! ;o)

If you want a really well protected roof route, give FBD a miss and try Roof Route at Rivelin - tough, but very well protected where it counts.

Nonsuch is pumpy and sustained, but it'll take all the gear you can throw at it if you have the stamina. As will Chequers Crack, at Froggatt. Pretty exhausting, but very safe indeed (which is just as well - it must be a contender for the most fallen off route in the Peak).

Would it be very unfair to mention The Vice (Stanage)? Horrific, but it is HVS/E1 and it is safe. (If you tape your hands up, to protect against blood loss. ;o)
rurp - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: Another shout for leaning buttress direct on stanage popular. I always use it early in the season to boost confidence, its the only route I have climbed 5+ times!

hard moves off ground, use mat. hard moves off ledge with gear at shoulder height. easy padding with spaced gear. it could be vs 5a but the guide says hvs5b. great to break the psychology.

BETA ALERT BELOW LOOK AWAY!

Long tall sally is good if you know how to put two wires together to get overhead gear for the crux!
rug - on 19 Apr 2013
More a question than a suggestion, but if the thread is in-situ, how about The Tippler for a safe (and memorable) E1 ?

Rug
Coel Hellier - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to rug:

> More a question than a suggestion, but if the thread is in-situ, how about The Tippler for a safe (and memorable) E1 ?

But in-situ gear should be discouraged at Stanage, and if it's not there and you pump out while placing alternatives then you could go for a big swing.
deacondeacon - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to rug:
> More a question than a suggestion, but if the thread is in-situ, how about The Tippler for a safe (and memorable) E1 ?
>
> Rug

I climbed it in February and there was no tat on it (unless its discrete and I didn't see it).
It's also bloody nails :)
Gordon Stainforth - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Coel Hellier:
> (In reply to Ciderslider)
>
> Just to correct the Eastern Grit bias of the thread:
>
> Joint Effort, HVS 5a, Staden (if it's not banned).
>
> Pocket Symphony, E1, Beeston (loads of threads).
>
> Yew Tree Wall, E1, Dovedale (lots of gear).
>
> Pebbledash, HVS, Roaches (safe).
>
> Rubberneck, HVS, Five Clouds (enough gear to start, then plenty)
>
> Slowhand, E1, Hen Cloud
>
> Safety Net. E1, Skyline
>
> Ocean Wall, E1, Standing Stones (take loads of cams around 0, 0.5, 1)

Most of these are good suggestions, Joint Effort perhaps the best. c. same standard as Cemetary Gates.

Yew Tree Wall, yes, lots of gear but the crux is 5c ...

Rubberneck - just as you describe - superb.

Safety Net ... the first half is technically hard and felt quite high ball. Then wonderful well protected finish.

Ocean Wall ... very hard ... but I suppose the gear is OK. Brilliant route but, seconding, it felt like a rather full-weight E2 to me.

Siderunner - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Delstree at Hen Cloud is a quality and well protected HVS, but only recommended if you like jamming.

Another vote for Milsom's Minion at Stanage, soft E1 and I thought the pro was fine; also Dexterity at Millstone is safe and good.

Delectable Direct at Lawrencefield felt like solid E1 to me, maybe on an off day, but it's well enough protected.
Hardonicus - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: The start of Ocean Wall is not well protected until after the traverse. I'd say the top was easy for E1.
Mark Warnett - on 20 Apr 2013
Suicide Wall ticks all the boxes. Its hard HVS, well protected and the best route I can remember doing in the Peak, with the possible exception of The Sloth which is another obvious but fantastic HVS and much easier that it looks.

FBD is benchmark E1 in my opinion, the Tippler hard E1, The Link pretty easy E1 but can't remember the gear.
Offwidth - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Mark Warnett:

Link is pretty safe but very fall-offable as you go for the ledge... I cut the extender when I did this (fortunately not all the way through!). Ocean Wall has a bold start and is tricky to protect the start of the traverse unless you are tall. Queersville is also bold at the start. FBD is bold onsight for an HVS leader despite good pro, as its strenuous to place unless you have go-go-gadget arms and to add to the worry it sometimes pops out unexpectedly.

I'm a bit confused the OP is asking what he is ...just needs to look at the crack routes in the graded lists and go for it.
Ciderslider - on 20 Apr 2013

> I'm a bit confused the OP is asking what he is ...just needs to look at the crack routes in the graded lists and go for it.


Fair point - I suppose that I was just after a few recommendations.
Misha - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
Firstly, there is no such thing as a totally safe trad route. Even sport routes have an element of danger!

Secondly, how about some stuff outside the Peaks? Cenotaph Corner is pretty well protected and über classic.
Blue Straggler - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
>
>
> Also should I shout "take" "watch me " or "would you kindly take in please belayer" before I fall off ;-)
It's "take....but not yet" :-)

Blue Straggler - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

My HVS onsight count is pitiful so hopefully this will hold some weight - Suspect Intellect at Curbar. Short but more satisfying than many longer route. Safe but unquestionable at the grade. Then go and do Avalanche Wall afterward (I slumped on it, nice and safe, I berated myself for not taking the whipper)
Gordon Stainforth - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Avalanche Wall is a v good suggestion. It's actually a good intro to the grade. Well protected and certainly not a walkover.
Rob Parsons on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Misha:

> Secondly, how about some stuff outside the Peaks? ...

The OP wrote: 'I am after really well protected Routes in the Peak on which to push my grade.'
Misha - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Rob Parsons:
Yes but I was referring to the thread title.

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