/ Quickdraw question ??

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Rock Badger on 20 Apr 2013
On my quickdraws one carabina is held tight at one end and the other is loose,, which end should be clipped into the gear ???
Blue Straggler - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger:

The tight end
Cameron94 on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger: People disagree with this all the time, I usually clip the stiff end into gear as it means I can do it from further away if need be. this leaves the loose end clipped to the rope and hopefully this will help keep the set-up in the correct orientation.

Pick a side and stick with it though rather than swapping, you'll avoid small burrs on the biners if you fall which could potentially damage the rope if you swapped it around on the next climb.
MJ - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger:

The captive karabiner should be used for the rope.
rocky57 - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger:

The loose end goes onto the protection or bolt. The tight end has the rope in it.
Milesy - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Cameron94:

In theory though the loose end if clipped could be flipped to the opposite orientation with a rope meaning potential for the rope unclipping. I don't know the true purpose though. All mine are worm loose or deliberately loosened when using crabs for other things or extending into sling draws.
rocky57 - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger:

And for the record. People don't disagree with this all the time. There is only one way it should be done.
Blue Straggler - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> (In reply to Rock Badger)
>
> The tight end

Sorry, ignore this! I got muddled.
Mutl3y - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger: +1 for elastic band end into rope.
markus691 on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger:
Tight end takes the rope. This helps prevent crossloading. The other end is loose, because the rope can lift the quickdraw, and with a tight draw at the bolt end there would be a chance the carabiner is loaded across an edge (of the bolt).
However, if you are clipping gear instead of bolts, loading the gear carabiner over an edge of the gear is rarely an issue. I'd personally still feel safer with the tight end taking the rope movement but I don't think doing otherwise is genuinely dangerous.
wilkie14c - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger:
As per everyone, loose for gear, tight for rope. Not only does it give a system so you can check all of your 'gear' crabs if you are a sport climber, gear being bolts in this case and bolts really wear crabs fast and can cause nicks in the crab. If this end was cipped to rope by mistake, the rope would be running through a burred carb, not good for rope! Also, floopy end going to gear is by design too. You clip a wire, hex, whatever and when the QD hangs on its own, clipped to gear and rope, sometimes it can be that the gear crab is laying gate against rock or a protusion, the theory is, should the rope come tight in a fall, the crab could be pressed against the rock and the gate pressed open. Open gate = weak crab. If the gear crab is floppy, its dead easy to rotate the crab so the gate isn't on the rock. Noticed more when clipping pegs really as you don't tend to always have a choice which way you can hook a crab on a peg.
Sorry if many know all this, it just this comes up a lot.
martinph78 on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to blanchie14c: One of my sets of quickdraws doesn't have a tight end, both are free...
Cameron94 on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger: On the recommendation of several instructional books to add slingdraws to my selection which are loose at both ends I've never been too bothered by the end clipped to the gear on my shorter quickdraws with a sewn tight end and open loose end.
Run_Ross_Run - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger:

To make it easy to remember I just think 'r' for rubber, 'r' for rope so the gear is always clipped into the correct end.
cyberpunk - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler: WRONG. The captive end is for the rope.
Blue Straggler - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to cyberpunk:

Correct. I corrected myself, it was too late to delete my original post.
As general reference, take a look at this file from Petzl: http://www.petzl.com/files/all/all/carabiners/carabinersExperience.pdf It explains it all.
Alex Slipchuk on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger: if you think about mambos, only one end was captive allowing you to replace your bolt end krab, when trad climbing the less rigidity in the extender the better, this helps prevent marginal gear lifting out. In sport climbing, this aint an issue hence fully stiched slings, called quickdraws. The term quickdraw usually means both types these days.
Martin Bennett - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to Martin1978:

You can fix this with thick short rubber bands or, better, with castration rings - you can get 'em from agricultural suppliers on-line for about 1 per hundred. Just google it. I used 'em for years before you could get quickdraws "ready made".
Pero - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler: I know people usually argue about this one, but I've never seen anyone argue with themselves about it!
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neuromancer - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger:

If you use sling draws for more climbing than just trad, or your trad sometimes has bolts, remmember to have different coloured carabiners on each end and be consistent with the rope and gear end colours.

Falling onto bolts can cut grooves into the alloy that may abrade or damage your rope.

I use red for rope, grey (silver) for gear on all of my draws.
Rock Badger on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger:

Good info cheers all, might mark (tape) some of my carabiners that are on the loose style draws to keep it easy.
GrahamD - on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger:

From a practical perspective, tight end on rope makes clipping easier.
ice.solo - on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger:

odd thing: in japan, quickdraws are often referred to nunchaku - as in bruce lee.
JohnV - on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to Rock Badger:

Some thoughts on using elastic bands to secure carabiners on open slings...

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/ae-open-slings-danger-check-when-you-clip
martinph78 on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to Martin Bennett: Thanks, I have thought about this but haven't done it yet. It was on my list of things to do!

Saying that, I often use sling draws and don't worry about those, and I don't worry if I put a sling around a spike and clip that either, and my dragon cans are clipped without a rubber band etc. Not sure if there is much of a danger to be honest.

I can see how, for sport climbing, it would make clipping easier though, maybe not such an issue for trad?
martinph78 on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to JohnV: Worth thinking about. As my comment above, open slings are often used without rubber bands (cams, spikes, threads etc)

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