/ What's the next Octavia?

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Sam W - on 21 Apr 2013
We find ourselves in a common UKC situation, need a new car, has to be big enough to fit kids and gear into, definitely looking at an estate, so the quick and easy answer is to go for an Octavia.

We've had a look at a few, they seem great, but everyone knows that and their second hand value seems very high. So I'm thinking, there must be an underrated car out there which is going to be as good as an Octavia, but cost a lot less to buy. Any thoughts on what we should be looking at? Needs to be spacious and reliable, preferably good fuel consumption, although we don't do loads of miles, so could consider something a bit thirstier if it's going to be much cheaper to buy.

In the meantime if anyone wants a Renault Megane with intermittent complete electrical failures, which may or may not leave you stranded while on family trips to Font, send me a message.

Neil Williams - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W:

Vectra seems to do the job for me, but that'll become less of an option. The boot on the Insignia is too small.

Some of the Japanese estates look reasonable.

Neil
craigloon - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W:

Heard good things about Kia cee'd Sportswagon.
Blue Straggler - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W:

Rover 75 Touring. 2l diesel.

Be careful with fuel consumption vs cost of buying, I did a spreadsheet on this and it makes more difference than I expected on only 10k miles per year - I was comparing 1.8l petrol engines to 2l diesel engines on the MG Zt-T (similar to Rover 75) and the purchase price of the petrol one would have to AVERAGE about 650 less PER YEAR through its lifetime (so if I kept it 3 years it would have to be 1950 cheaper) than the diesel, on fuel consumption and tax alone based on manufacturer's claimed combined mpg and current fuel prices. Obviously that does not factor in increased servicing costs on a diesel though, but I'm just saying, it is worth spending 10 minutes doing the sums properly.

Ridge - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W:

<Looks round furtively, hangs head in shame, whispers quitely..>

Kia Ceed estate. I've had the hatchback for 2 years, bought second hand and I've done 30,000 miles in it. Starts first time, averages 55mpg, has all the bluetoothy USB thingys, reasonably powerful for a 1.6 turbo diesel. You also get a 7year warranty. Mrs Ridge has a VW of similar age and mileage, and the Kia is devoid of the niggly faults we've had with the VW.
yarbles - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler: +1 Rover 75s are supposed to be v good. Especially the BMW diesel engined ones, I did a fair bit of research a year ago when looking and this is what I settled on (circumstanes changed so didn't get one in the end). They are not so easy to find though.
Blue Straggler - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to yarbles:

True and obviously they will tend to have high mileage. OP has not suggested a budget of course, so I may be shooting too low! I agree that they are harder to find than you might think - I was always shopping for an MG Zt-T but I did do parallel searches for the 75 as everyone said it would be better value, but I didn't see many and the prices were similar to the MG anyway.

A good place to search for one might be the 75 and ZT owners' forum, people put theirs up for sale there and those cars are likely to have been well looked after.
Sam W - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W:

Thanks for the ideas everyone, I should have said that our maximum budget is 5000, but I would rather spend less on the car and use the leftover to do something fun.

Rover 75 sounds like it could be an option, picking one up cheaply and running it in the ground is my preferred form of car buying. Also like the look of the Kia, but that's the other end of the budget scale.

Further suggestions or recommendations very welcome.
Timmd on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W:Erm, not sure about the MPG, but my dad's 96 P reg Audi A6 diesel estate seems to just run and run without any faults, and the garage guy commented it was a very reliable car. I think they'd solved any niggles by that model. I realise it's pretty old, but nothing at all seems to go wrong with it.

I'm pondering getting one to run on used cooking oil should I manage to find a job which can let me afford to run one and I track one down okay. Obviously probably more likely to be a riskier buy than a newer car.
john spence - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W: Just bough an 07 Toyota avensis estate with 27K on the clock. I had to buy in a hurry and bought it from a main dealer just before Christmas. I knocked almost a grand off the asking price and got a 12 month warranty instead of 3 months and 12 months five star AA.and free roof bars. I took it in in a few weeks back to have the heated rear window repaired (only demisting the top half ) The technician said that the turbo was "noisy" the water pump was leaking slightly and the under engine shield was cracked and the rear window would need to be replaced. All being done on the warranty.In all about 2500 worth of work plus a courtesy car.The car returns about 50mpg
and is as roomy as my old peugeot 406 estate. Feeling quite pleased with myself.
andrew breckill - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> (In reply to yarbles)
>
> True and obviously they will tend to have high mileage. OP has not suggested a budget of course, so I may be shooting too low! I agree that they are harder to find than you might think - I was always shopping for an MG Zt-T but I did do parallel searches for the 75 as everyone said it would be better value, but I didn't see many and the prices were similar to the MG anyway.
>
> A good place to search for one might be the 75 and ZT owners' forum, people put theirs up for sale there and those cars are likely to have been well looked after.


shhhh, the first rule of the 75/zt owners club is you don't talk about the 75/zt owners club. Are you a member of said forum BTW?

Blue Straggler - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to andrew breckill:

Sadly yes, as I used their sage advice to help choose the diesel engine. There is a crazy long thread with me asking loads of stupid questions :-)

If I'm not careful I'll start going to meets. I have already bought an MG magazine (cos it was 1 on my local market)
andrew breckill - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler: lol, I've been to a few, well dodgy, middle aged blokes hanging about the metro centre car park. There is usually someone at ours with the full dealer diagnostics T4 system and does free stuff like lazy locking enabling, speed locking, reading/removing fault codes etc.
Blue Straggler - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to andrew breckill:

I might pop to one in Wolverhampton and get Humphrey looked at by a dodgy middle aged bloke with a T4. For real.
Andrew Lodge - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W: No brainer, Mondeo, cheap as chips and you don't even have to pay a fortune to get the cambelt changed.
Buy a 2.0 TDCi and it will go for ever
Neil Williams - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Andrew Lodge:

Unless the dual mass flywheel goes.

Neil
Father Noel Furlong on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W:

Interesting no-one can actually quote a new small brand car which will become the Octavia's successor. Which suggests it will reign supreme for a while yet......
Blue Straggler - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:

Haven't two people just done so? Kia C'eed?
Why does it have to be a small brand?
Denni on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W:

Mate has bought a Vauxhall Astra Estate from Evans Halshaw. 2 kids, camping/climbing kit, kayaks on the roof, great bit of kit. We used to have one years ago that we only sold as we bought a campervan.

His was 4500, 60,000 miles on the clock, 57 plate 1,7cdti club. He pays 60 to fill it up and gets just over 550 miles on a tank. Reliable as long as the full cambelt has been done. Cheap insurance, tax 120 for a year, a bit of an unsing hero.

Hope this helps, Den

http://www.evanshalshaw.com/vehiclesearch/used/vauxhall-used-cars-astra.html?type=used&make=vaux...
monkeys on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Andrew Lodge:
> (In reply to Sam W) No brainer, Mondeo, cheap as chips and you don't even have to pay a fortune to get the cambelt changed.
> Buy a 2.0 TDCi and it will go for ever

as long as the DMF, DPF, Turbo, or Injectors don't give up.....as they do on many. It is all a matter of luck, not engineering excellence
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In reply to monkeys: My missus has got a TDCi and the f*cking thing costs us a fortune, to the extent that I don't think we will ever have a modern diesel again. It has 300 jobs done on it with the same regularity as I used to fettle the points on my first car - which cost a fiver for a set of feeler gauges...
iksander on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W: Subaru Legacy tourer
Ferret on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to john spence: I've always wondered a bit - sounds to me like car not prepped properly and warranty picking up the pieces. So while thats kind of OK for you I do wonder when the warranty companies get hacked off with the garages. Surely the question must be 'thats a whole lot of work on a car thats only just come from dealer, who are supposed to present it fully working and with all reasonable and identifiable faults sorted out'? If you go buy a warranty off the shelf you have to have the car serviced, and all pre-existing stuff fixed or excluded. In theory.

Sounds great biz for the garage - they do the absolute minimum to make the car sellable, whack a warranty on it, then a few weeks later the warranty pays them to fix stuff that they should probably have been paying for themselves at the point between taking car in as a trade in and selling it on to you.
Father Noel Furlong on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> (In reply to Father Noel Furlong)
>
> Haven't two people just done so? Kia C'eed?
> Why does it have to be a small brand?

Skoda had one of the worst reputations for car building and were always seen as a joke. Maybe you're right and Kia are their logical successor but i wonder whether to genuinely be seen as the new Octavia we should be looking to Dacia or Ssang Yong.

Again IMO it has to be a small brand as Ford etc have a long pedigree, if you're going to recommend them you'd be as well recommending a C Class or 5 Series (IMO).
john spence - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to Ferret:
> >
> Sounds great biz for the garage - they do the absolute minimum to make the car sellable, whack a warranty on it, then a few weeks later the warranty pays them to fix stuff that they should probably have been paying for themselves at the point between taking car in as a trade in and selling it on to you.

That was my feeling. I'm just pleased that I got a 12 month warranty or I would be picking up he bill. I wonder if it is common practice for dealers to do this.
butteredfrog - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
> (In reply to Blue Straggler)
> [...]
>
> Skoda had one of the worst reputations for car building and were always seen as a joke.

In the old days before the wall came down. Badge engineered VW for the last 15yrs or so.

Blue Straggler - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to butteredfrog:

I think that was Father Noel's point.
jonfun21 on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:

....we should be looking to Dacia or Ssang Yong....guess that depends how much you value your life in the event of an accident:

http://www.euroncap.com/results/dacia.aspx

...the photo's of a 3 star vs. 5 star car make interesting viewing

Blue Straggler - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to jonfun21:

Website doesn't seem to be fully functional, I can't select cars from the dropdowns on the main page - tested in Chrome and on Explorer.
craigloon - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:

Err, that reputation for Skoda preceded its acquisition by VW Audi. Since then it has basically made the same cars as the equivalent VWs and Audis, only with different bodies. The only reason they are cheaper is the snob value people still attach to the other marques.

Father Noel Furlong on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to craigloon:

Errr....i know that. That was my point!
craigloon - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to craigloon:

Kia currently suffer from the same (mis)perception that Skoda did for many years, which is what makes them such a great bargain at the mo. Not for long I suspect, as the word is out...
galpinos - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to craigloon:
> (In reply to Father Noel Furlong)
>
> Err, that reputation for Skoda preceded its acquisition by VW Audi. Since then it has basically made the same cars as the equivalent VWs and Audis, only with different bodies. The only reason they are cheaper is the snob value people still attach to the other marques.

How much cheaper is an Octavia than a Golf Saloon (whatever that's called nowadays) for an equivalent spec?
Ridge - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to craigloon:
> (In reply to craigloon)
>
> Kia currently suffer from the same (mis)perception that Skoda did for many years, which is what makes them such a great bargain at the mo. Not for long I suspect, as the word is out...

Yep. We'll probably PX Mrs Ridges VW for a Kia this year, as I've been very impessed by mine and also the level of service from the dealer. I also think VW have been trading on past reputation for a while. 15 years ago VW made very reliable cars compared to everyone else. The other manufacturers have upped their game considerably and, (IMHO), VWs aren't worth the money anymore.
Sam W - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W:

Thanks for all the suggestions. My wife thinks the Rover 75 is a bit 'old man', so is not keen unless we get the V8 version, which would fail most of the other criteria set for the car. I still think it could work for us, so will keep an eye out for one locally.

Had wondered about Mondeos, but they aren't going to be loads cheaper than an Octavia, as others have said the brand is probably too well known. Kia sounds promising, but I think a bit out of our price range at the moment.
In reply to Sam W: We'll soon have a Mondeo Estate for sale. 2.0 l TDCi which I can thoroughly recommend.
paul__in_sheffield - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to Ridge:
> (In reply to Sam W)
>
> <Looks round furtively, hangs head in shame, whispers quitely..>
>
> Kia Ceed estate. I've had the hatchback for 2 years, bought second hand and I've done 30,000 miles in it. Starts first time, averages 55mpg, has all the bluetoothy USB thingys, reasonably powerful for a 1.6 turbo diesel. You also get a 7year warranty. Mrs Ridge has a VW of similar age and mileage, and the Kia is devoid of the niggly faults we've had with the VW.

+1 for the Ceed, I put 50k on the clock in 2 years at 55mpg. Traded in for a new Kia Sportage with the usual 7 year warranty. Excellent cars
Blue Straggler - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W:
> (In reply to Sam W)
>
> Thanks for all the suggestions. My wife thinks the Rover 75 is a bit 'old man', so is not keen unless we get the V8 version, which would fail most of the other criteria set for the car. I still think it could work for us, so will keep an eye out for one locally.

If she won't be happy with the 75 consider the MG Zt-T. I just bought one two days ago! It's basically a 75 with minor pimping to appeal to a younger demographic. They look really smart.
jonfun21 on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to Ridge:

Seconded, nothing major with my Golf Mk6 but it has had few niggles recently and is only 4 years old.

The 3 year warranty on VW's is also far too short now vs. competition. It basically says they don't have confidence in their product, Skoda also the in this boat.

When you factor in the extra cost of an extended warranty / or paid for repairs then other manufacturers look much more attractive when buying new. Different story if secondhand.
ripper - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W: why is it that the UKC massiv thinks Skodas are da bomb but seems to completely ignore Seats?
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Blue Straggler - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to ripper:
> (In reply to Sam W) why is it that the UKC massiv thinks Skodas are da bomb but seems to completely ignore Seats?


The UKC massive thinks the OCTAVIA is brilliant. Only lip service is given to the other models. And from this you can see that there is some confusion over which Seat is the Octavia equivalent!
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/263548-shock-horror/
Mike Stretford - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler: It's the Octovia estate that's sought after. I believe this is basically because it's the only VAG estate of that size which is available in any numbers over here (the golf estate is rare). It's just become the default estate for anyone who want a VAG estate smaller than a Passat.
Blue Straggler - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to Papillon:
And still loads of the UKC massive like to say that the Octavia IS a Passat rebadged :-)
Mike Stretford - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W: noooo, that's the superb.
Blue Straggler - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to Papillon:

You know that and I know that :-)
Lord of Starkness - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to Sam W:

My daughter and her ex both had Seat Leon cupras -- All of the good bits (mechanicals) were VAG group - but the squeaks and rattles were all Seat.

At 18 months old they had more minor niggles than my 5 year old Octavia, however a few minor squeaks developed by the time the Octy reached 9 years old.

My new (petrol) Octy is almost silent!

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