/ "Biggest" crevasseless Alpine climb

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KlaasW on 23 Apr 2013
What is the biggest (tallest or most impressive, whatever) Alpine peak you can run up without going on a glacier and without any proper (roped) climbing that you could (sensibly) do alone. (I have been told this has been discussed on UKC before but cannot find it, sorry.)
Tim Chappell - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:


I don't know. But I do know you can do the Lagginhorn (4010m) without going on a glacier, because I've done it.
MG - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:
> What is the biggest (tallest or most impressive, whatever) Alpine peak you can run up without going on a glacier and without any proper (roped) climbing that you could (sensibly) do alone. (I have been told this has been discussed on UKC before but cannot find it, sorry.)

Most major peaks seem possible with sufficient ingenuity and skill. Mont Blanc via peutery integral (getting down might be tricky without touchng a glacier).Tronchey ridge on Grandss Jorasses. North Face ofEiger
KlaasW on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to MG: interestingly, my life insurance doesn't allow me to go over 4000m while my BMC travel insurance (rock) excludes glaciers, so the north face of the Eiger is OK... But seriously, is there something cool you could walk/run up mini-Kilian Jornet style? I will investigate Lagginhorn (Wallis?)
Tim Chappell - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:

Despite what it says here, make sure you have crampons and ice-axe:

http://www.summitpost.org/lagginhorn/150308
KlaasW on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to Tim Chappell: sounds nice but I wonder if I were to die at 3999 meter after having passed 4010 whether the insurance would be invalidated... Anyway, crampons, no problem of course
Trangia - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:
> What is the biggest (tallest or most impressive, whatever) Alpine peak you can run up without going on a glacier and without any proper (roped) climbing that you could (sensibly) do alone. (I have been told this has been discussed on UKC before but cannot find it, sorry.)

Matterhorn if using the fixed ropes doesn't disqualify?
MG - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW: Look at Weissmies too. Just ovet 4000m amd PD rock.
KlaasW on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to Trangia: 4478, don't think so. Plus not really a running mountain, is it?
Tim Chappell - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:
> (In reply to Tim Chappell) sounds nice but I wonder if I were to die at 3999 meter after having passed 4010 whether the insurance would be invalidated...


Then just be sure to die on the way up, not on the way down. Simples.
Tim Chappell - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:


Oh, you do actually mean *run*, right? Certainly when I did the Lagginhorn you could have run up it, provided you're happy running up a 45 degree slope in crampons through mushy sticky snow. You could have run down it too, on the same condition, and with the added proviso that you'd need to be confident that you were going to stay in control.

This is just the upper half of the route I'm talking about--it's an open, simple, 45 degree snow slope about 300m high. Below that you have a rocky ridge, which is more like a scramble than a run (at least for me). Below that you have the approach path from the Lagginhornhuette, which is certainly runnable.

Not my bag, but if that's your thing, respect.
Tim Chappell - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to Tim Chappell:
> (In reply to KlaasW)
> [...]
>
>
> Then just be sure to die on the way up, not on the way down. Simples.


Or alternatively get better insurance. Surely it's worth another 5 euros or whatever not to face such artificial constraints on what you can do?
KlaasW on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to Tim Chappell: sure, not planning to die and happy to upgrade insurance. Still would very much like to avoid glaciers on my own though.
mike kann - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW: A bit of a tangential one and not that high but the Watzmann above Berchtesgarten has a massive height gain and very moderate climbing, mainly scrambling and not harder than one pitch of III. My friend did it, and took gear but never used it...
KlaasW on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to mike kann: ooh, nice too. 2000m vertical ascent...
Trangia - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:
> (In reply to Trangia) 4478, don't think so. Plus not really a running mountain, is it?

Ah! Your title didn't make it clear that we are talking about real running rather than to figuratively "run up" it....
David Rose - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW: The top of the Peuterey integral is glaciated. I almost fell into a hidden crevasse not far from the top of Mt Blanc de Courmayeur, and there is no way of avoiding glaciers on the descent. It's true the Weissmies and the Tronchey ridge on the Jorasses can be climbed without setting foot on glaciated terrain, but again, there is the problem of the descent. I don't think there s any peak over about 3,600 m where this isn't an issue.
MG - on 24 Apr 2013
Weissmies .... there is the problem of the descent. I don't think there s any peak over about 3,600 m where this isn't an issue.

Weissmies you just turn round and go down the same way surely (well I know actually!)
KlaasW on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to davidoldfart: Hmmm, TD and TD+ is a bit out of my league (for now...). I don't see even Kilian Jornet run up a 5c pitch either but would be ready to be amazed.
EeeByGum - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW: Head to the Dolomites. Stunningly beautiful and many 3000m peaks that are accessible by footpath and or via ferrata. That is not to say you won't encounter snow or ice, but no glaciers. I did Toffana di Rosa near Cortina using the Via Ferrata that takes you through the old war tunnels. Other routes exist. We hit snow, but it was the sugary type so approach shoes were ok if a little wet. Definitely recommended and an excellent day out that takes you to 3000m!
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Punter S Thompson - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to Tim Chappell:

The upper slopes were plastered in hard, frozen snow when I did it.

Yeah, running down with no crampons would have got me down an awful lot faster.
MG - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to Punter S Thompson: Not to be undertaken too lightly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18702349
Jim Hamilton - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:

There was a recent article by Steve Ashworth in the FRA about running up the Dome Des Ecrins and Gran Paradiso. There were crevasses to be avoided, and he is a good climber.
KlaasW on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to Punter S Thompson:

For a 300m peak I'd take at least running crampons. Actually, I'm probably coming from Venice anyway.

Dome de Neige des Ecrins is surrounded by glaciers, no? Doesn't sound so great.
Blinder - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW: Have been thinking of somehting simialr for a while now. Especialy the Weissmies and laginhorn. Just quite my job and have a house in Saas Would love to do the traverse of the Weissmies fast and light.
Gordon Stainforth - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW: Eiger, Matterhorn, Dru, almost everything in the Dolomites - loads of them.
Kris on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:
> (In reply to davidoldfart) I don't see even Kilian Jornet run up a 5c pitch either but would be ready to be amazed.

He has ran up 5b already so I guess we may live to see 5c too...

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/kilian-jornets-remarkable-speed-traverse-of-mont-blanc
Andy Nisbet - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:

Mont Blanc by the Gouter Route has little crevasse risk (if you stay on the path). There are other risks but that depends on your climbing ability.
Simon4 - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to MG:
> Weissmies .... there is the problem of the descent.

The route up from the Almageller Hut is perfectly safe to ascend and descend solo, but I think the voi normalle from the Weissmies hut can be quite badly crevassed. So a traverse solo is not a good option.
MG - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to Simon4: Correct
Simon4 - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to MG: Don't happen to know what it is like skiing up the Weissmeis do you? I imagine it should be fine, but would be nice to know if someone has done it recently.
MG - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to Simon4: Sorry no idea. Loads of snow around Gran Paradiso if that helps at all!
Simon4 - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to MG: It does a bit. Is it mostly on the NW though NE faces?
Blinder - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to Simon4: 50 cm of snow over the weekend. But that should have stabilsed now. I am pretty sure it is good. Hopefully will be in Saas over the weekend, so will have a look to see if there is track in.
Kris on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to Simon4: I keep a constant eye on the Grand Paradiso NF over here:

http://www.rifugiochabod.com/rifugiochabod/index.php/ita/pagina/5
derryclimbs - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:

kilimanjaro?
KlaasW on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to derryclimbs:

Bit far from Venice.
Jeremy Ashcroft - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW: The Midi-Plan traverse might be a goer? A few easy section of rock to deal with but also a fair few places where you could run - I know this as I had to do so to catch the last freq back down to Cham!
Simon4 - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to Kris, MG : Thanks fellas.

I just hope that meteo France is talking b*ll*cks about what is coming next week!
Solaris - on 24 Apr 2013
In reply to Punter S Thompson:
> (In reply to Tim Chappell)
Hard ice when I did it. Not a very relaxing place to be.
simongwyn - on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:
If you really mean running in one continuous journey, I'd suggest Mont Pelat - in the sense that you can actually run it all the way, but it's still quite big and isolated, which seems to be closer to what you mean.
Bob Aitken - on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:
It isn't cool or fashionable, but the Grande Sassiere, NE of Val d'Isere, is 3747m and one of the simplest high peaks in the Alps. The standard west ridge approach gives a 1500m ascent walk with just a bit of shaley scrambling and a steepish final ridge to the top; in recent years it's been virtually snow-free later in the season, with a path a lot of the way. In those conditions it would be almost like running up Skiddaw, just a bit bigger and with superb alpine views. But you need to come back the same way. Rather fine video of an MTB party on it at http://www.pinkbike.com/video/276918/
cb294 - on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to simongwyn:

Monte Emilius from Aosta?

CB
davidprior - on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW: South ridge of the Noir de Peutrey or the West ridge of the Salbitschen should keep you quiet for a bit but do NOT under estimate them
davidprior - on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW: Also some big routes on the South face of the Marmolata and don't forget the Civetta
sam1971 - on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:

Bigerhorn 3626m or Balfrin 3796m, both above the village of Gasenried 1659m, Valais, Switzerland.
Fultonius - on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to davidprior: Not sure there's no "non-roped, non-glacier" routes on the marmolada is there?
Orgsm on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to Fultonius:
> (In reply to davidprior) Not sure there's no "non-roped, non-glacier" routes on the marmolada is there?

Approach the force la from the south, and go up Via Ferrata, then reverse , and you'd be fine without rope. Axe and crampons still required though.
Fultonius - on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to Beat me to it!: True, but...doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me.
KlaasW on 26 Apr 2013
In reply to KlaasW:

On camptocamp.org, you can search for routes with total ascent larger than x, no glacier equipment required, and grade, for example, less or equal to AD-. Will have to look at that more carefully this weekend. By the way, the Lagginhorn looks pretty epic. Not sure if trailshoes would be entirely appropriate though (Kilian has helicopter support on the Innominata, mere mortals like us wouldn't...)

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