/ Should all Indoor walls be shut down ?

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Petarghh - on 01 May 2013
In response to the current dry tooling debate.

Climbing walls are training a generation of climbers, making them strong, fit and psyched to take their new skills to the natural crags.

BUT

This influx of climbers dragged in by the glamorisation of rock climbing are causing vast damage to our cherished crags.

Loose blocks being removed
Unsightly chalk stains
Gear being placed repeatedly is wearing down placements
Cams have the potential to prise flakes off
Litter and excrement
Increased traffic polishing routes.

This must all stop now. Climbing walls are the training venue and therefore.

Remove the walls = stop the damage to our mountains and crags!

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=50009

Yours trollfully :)
Ava Adore - on 01 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh:

Yes. And in their place, there should be mounds of lovely juicy climbable rock.
The Lemming - on 01 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh:

Yes ban all indoor walls, and stuff like that.
Petarghh - on 01 May 2013
In reply to The Lemming: Well maybe instead of banning them we could nick all their draws and hack off the bolts !

Just annoy them for a couple of days then let them carry on.
Bruce Hooker - on 01 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh:

Did anyone every tell you that you have a somewhat obsessive side to your personality? :-)

It's only a hobby for crisakes.
Petarghh - on 01 May 2013
In reply to Bruce Hooker: Yes - actually !

The post was made to be tongue in cheek. to be honest its just funny how the views can be applied to any section of climbing to the same outcome.

Maybe not as obsessive as the chaps who go around destroying other peoples work though !

(its been a slow day otherwise!)
The Lemming - on 01 May 2013
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
> (In reply to Petarghh)
>
> Did anyone every tell you that you have a somewhat obsessive side to your personality? :-)
>
> It's only a hobby for crisakes.


Anybody actually owned up yet?

or still cloak and dagger stuff.

The thread is too long and boring to follow
TheDrunkenBakers - on 01 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh: it was me, whatya gonna do about it?
The Lemming - on 01 May 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
> (In reply to Petarghh) it was me, whatya gonna do about it?

Buy you a pint.
Petarghh - on 01 May 2013
In reply to The Lemming: No, but the removed gear was recovered and now replaced along with the chopped bolts.

So hopefully it doesn't happen again and we can climb in peace for a while longer!
xplorer on 01 May 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Punch in or around your mouth?????
Misha - on 01 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh:
Yes, definitely. They can grade for toffee at my local wall anyway.
Steve nevers on 02 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh: totally agree..

Ban ropes, rock shoes and the like as well.

you should have to wrap your hands and feet in bubble wrap before your allowed to touch a rock face...

Actually we should all stop totally, commit hari-kari for our rock-polishing sins and use our dead bodies as a shield to preserve the rock in a pristine condition for the coming of the fable 'Future-Climber'. The mythical being foretold by the prophets of UKC, A trad climber (Could it be any other way?) of such ability they can lead new routes in choss-filled blank-faced death-trap sh1te-holes, and repeat Ondra sportlines Onsight one-armed holding a tennis ball. But of course they'd never do such a thing.
Paul Troon - on 02 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh:
sell the the grags to the highest bidder !! then they could make a mint chargeing climbers wislt keeping indoor walls open so the also can continue making some Money !!

Paul
ice.solo - on 02 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh:

I agree. All indoor walls should be returned to their natural states as squash courts and warehouses.
Kemics - on 02 May 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

like!
GrahamD - on 02 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh:

You've got this wrong. The way forward is NOT to post about in advance. You need to get out your balaclava and remove the bolts from a few walls, then email the BMC as the Rock Liberation Front.
GrahamD - on 02 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh:

On a serious note, the potential impact of 'wall bred' (horrible term) climbers on the limited rock resources is a real concern if not carefully managed IMO
ripper - on 02 May 2013
In reply to GrahamD:
> (In reply to Petarghh)
>
> You've got this wrong. The way forward is NOT to post about in advance. You need to get out your balaclava and remove the bolts from a few walls, then email the BMC as the Rock Liberation Front.

Or is the the Liberation Front of Rock?
tom_in_edinburgh - on 02 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh:

By definition it is outdoor climbers not indoor ones that are damaging the crags. Therefore instead of shutting walls it would be more sensible to ration outdoor climbing. The BMC should allocate members tokens for 10 days outdoor climbing per year and the routes to be climbed should be booked in advance through their website. More damaging forms of climbing could be charged at multiple tokens per day.

The scheme for allocating time slots to parties on the Inn Pinn mentioned in another thread is an excellent example of how this could be managed.
ads.ukclimbing.com
EeeByGum - on 02 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh:

> Loose blocks being removed
> Unsightly chalk stains
> Gear being placed repeatedly is wearing down placements
> Cams have the potential to prise flakes off
> Litter and excrement
> Increased traffic polishing routes.

If you want to avoid any of these, simply head to the more esoteric Lancashire quarries! I can certainly guarantee loose blocks. :-)
davidbeynon - on 02 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh:

Logically the more effective solution would be to ban outdoor climbing.
Petarghh - on 02 May 2013
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh: so by definition it is winter climbers not dry toolers damaging crags :)

Finally someone gets it :)
Misha - on 02 May 2013
In reply to davidbeynon:
> (In reply to Petarghh)
>
> Logically the more effective solution would be to ban outdoor climbing.

Agree, that would preserve the rock and over time it will revert to its original vegetated state. We can all just climb indoors, it isn't that different but much safer than trade and winter stuff. At my local wall it's so cold in winter that if they sprinkled some water from the ceiling they would get ice pillars forming so don't even need specialist indoor fridge style walls to cater for the winter climbers.
davidbeynon - on 02 May 2013
In reply to Misha:

It would save people a fortune in equipment and transport costs too. Who doesn't want more beer money?
Jams - on 02 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh: Banning indoor walls is a stupid idea. Indoor climbing walls are one of the main ways people are learning about the sport and beginning to participate within it. Naturally the interested people will eventually move outdoors, but this is to be expected as the whole reasons they will have started indoors is to progress outdoors. Yes, this does mean there will be more damage to the rock, but this is to be expected if there are more people participating in the sport.
However I do believe if people want to progress to outdoor climbing, they should have the correct tuition in order to avoid damaging anything while their out. Therefore this will be down to the individual whether they choose to participate in a course, not the indoor walls responsibility.
Bertbee - on 02 May 2013
In reply to GrahamD:

Maybe a better term for those who've learned to climb indoors would be 'in-bred'?

(ps. I learned to climb indoors.)
John Rushby - on 02 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh:

plus ca change

Climbing has always been glamorous.

I was drawn to it like Jackson to an owl pellet when I saw pony tailed blokes wearing Ron Hills and carrying bar towels wandering around Caley.

You don't get more glamorous than that

The good thing about the walls is that it corrals all the newbies who insist on doing an hour of yoga beforehand and when faced with the outside soon retreat like mewing pucklings, bemoaning the lack of an organic fair trade latte at Guisecliffe.
Andrew Mallinson - on 02 May 2013
In reply to GrahamD:

Hi Graham,
...I'm trying to decide if you are making a serious point or not....if it's a troll statement then I've fallen for it.....if it's a serious comment then I think you're wrong...and here's why....indoor wall climbers by and large have succumbed to the comfortable glamour and few of them head outdoors anymore...if they do it's only to clip-up venues...which leaves more real rock for those of us that head out on the trad stuff....so I say more indoor climbing walls to amuse the masses so that the rest of us can get even more peace and quiet enjoying the real thing!!
ANdy
Nath93 - on 02 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh: But if you take the indoor walls down then where will all the dry tooling competitions be held ? I suppose there are plenty big mountain crags that should fit the bill just nicely...!
Andrew Mallinson - on 02 May 2013
In reply to John Rushby:
eh up youth! Ron Hills and bar towels? You were lucky!!! When I were a lad at Caley.....
ANdy
ripper - on 02 May 2013
In reply to Andrew Mallinson:
When I were a lad I remember reading my old mans karabiner club newsletters (printed on real paper they were) with meet reports from old timers bemoaning the arrival of the 'stockings and suspenders brigade', as they called those upstarts with tights and them new-fangled harness thingies...
Andrew Mallinson - on 02 May 2013
In reply to ripper:

Reading newsletters? You were lucky!! When I were nobut a lad we 'ad to use 'em as insulation 'cos wos clothes had loads er 'oles in 'em......

ANdy
ripper - on 02 May 2013
In reply to Andrew Mallinson:
'oles? we used to DREAM about 'oles etc etc....
IainRUK - on 02 May 2013
In reply to Petarghh: Yeah historically past generations had much more respect for rock..

When was 'GA' written on Tryfan?
GrahamD - on 03 May 2013
In reply to Andrew Mallinson:

There is a real concern - that as the number of people coming to climbing through climbing walls (and therefore clip up routes) increases, there are an increasing number of people looking for clip up venues outside (they don't all stay inside inhaling chalk dust !)and therefore there is more pressure to put bolts in to venues that were resolutely trad.
tom_in_edinburgh - on 03 May 2013
In reply to GrahamD:

The thing I worry about is what happens when one of these indoor climbers starts singing 'Tomorrow belongs to me' in the cafe at the wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29Mg6Gfh9Co


Andrew Mallinson - on 03 May 2013
In reply to GrahamD:

Totally agree Graham...and trad is already on its' arse...
When I went to my local climbing wall recently I was asked to sign a petition to support the inclusion of indoor sports climbing at the Olympics - I refused. Joe public will think this is what it's all about and even further exhaserbate (?)the problem issue that you allude to.
Hopefully the crags will be even quieter for the rest of us....
ANdy
ripper - on 03 May 2013
In reply to GrahamD:
> (In reply to Andrew Mallinson)
>
> There is a real concern - that as the number of people coming to climbing through climbing walls (and therefore clip up routes) increases, there are an increasing number of people looking for clip up venues outside (they don't all stay inside inhaling chalk dust !)and therefore there is more pressure to put bolts in to venues that were resolutely trad.

Real concern? is there really? which 'resolutely trad' venues are falling prey to this pressure to bolt? I can't speak for all in-bred climbers (is that term we're using now?) but my club recently held its annual beginner's trip, where we introduce newbies to the delights of outdoor climbing, and as usual we took them to the peak to climb trad on grit.

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