/ The Giro Thread (spoilers, presumably)

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Chris the Tall - on 03 May 2013
So the Giro starts tomorrow

Looks simple enough - Cav will win in Naples, Sky will win the TTT round Ischia, Wiggo will be in Pink after the first ITT and wrap things up with a storming climb up to Tre Cima...

Or maybe not. OK you wouldn't bet against Cav in any sprint, but it will be tough for him to get the points jersey (rosa or rossa, I'm never sure) because they (quite rightly) give the same number of points for each stage.

As to Wiggo, with 7 summit finishes and time bonuses on all stages. I suspect Nibbles will be able to build enough of a buffer to make up for his losses in the time-trials. And if the two of them are busily watching each other, it leaves the door open for someone else. Though not Basso - ouch !

Anyway, the Guardian has managed to find Robert Millar for his opinion

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2013/may/03/bradley-wiggins-giro-robert-millar
Talius Brute - on 03 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

My money is on Nibali, and I hope he wins - he's so much more stylish and aggressive than Wiggins.
ClimberEd - on 03 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Anyone know if ITV4 are running highlights? Or Eurosport for that matter.

It seems sky are running live coverage on Eurosport and the highlights on sky sports.

Of course sky sports is an extra upgrade package....
interdit - on 03 May 2013
In reply to ClimberEd:

http://tv.eurosport.co.uk/search.shtml?query=giro

Highlights are the ones not marked as 'Live'

Don't believe it's on ITV4.
Chris the Tall - on 03 May 2013
In reply to interdit:
I'd be prepared to pay for Eurosport Player to watch the highlights, but only if I could watch it when I wanted, but from what I gather you can only watch what's being shown at the time - it's like going back to the dark ages !

Plus 90 mins of highlights, particularly late at night, is a bit much.

But the good news is that Radio 5 is having daily live coverage, which is good
La Shamster on 04 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Nice result. As ever he has to finish it off on his own and come round a good handful of riders.
La Shamster on 04 May 2013
In reply to La Shamster:

.........lol and he's just had to apologies for saying the F word on live TV :-)
IainFP on 04 May 2013
In reply to La Shamster:
> (In reply to La Shamster)
>
> .........lol and he's just had to apologies for saying the F word on live TV :-)

Where's the UKC "like" button :0)

Text book Cav finish i.e he's too far back, left it too late........jeez!!!!
mark s - on 04 May 2013
In reply to La Shamster: haha is this live?
good win,was boxed in at the end also,but soon got around them.
thermal_t - on 04 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: In a straight line he's just far too good for anyone. Congrats Cav!
tim000 - on 04 May 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bsd-H-SpNI terrible camara work though.
Chris the Tall - on 05 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Everything still going to script*, 14 seconds in a 17k TT isn't bad, especially with Garmin at 25 and the BMC at 37 (don't think Cuddles is a real threat, but watch out for Dave Turnball!)

I suspect SKY would have been happier if QuickStep had been within 40 seconds, as I'm sure they don't want to have to defend the pink jersey all this week.

*apparently sky got it wrong as to who would wear pink, Cartaldo was to cross the line first, but Puccio gets the honour on the basis of yesterday's position. So much for the myth of sky's attention to every detail
Minneconjou Sioux - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

All good fun though. Loved Cav dropping the F bomb. Sky in a good position.
Long time to the end ;-)
Ian Black - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: Tried to reply to the 'what do we think of chris froome' thread but it wont play ball. A mate who's into his old scooters was riding near Leyland in Lancs and came across a fellow scooter geek broken down by the roadside. Turns out it was Sir Wiggo. Mate gets his scooter repaired and running again, goes to shake wiggos paw and gets a 'sorry but I don't shake hands'. WTF he's just helped the guy and he doesn't have the decency to shake his hand. Surely if Froome had been in that position he would have shook hands!! So for that reason he gets my vote for the tour.
dhuhkosi - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Ian Black:

Think I read in wiggo's book or in the national press that the british team / sky riders do not shake hands in case they catch some nasty germs....I think they even got lessons in how to wash their hands "correctly".
Chris the Tall - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Ian Black:
Read this article

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/brailsford-addresses-doctor-dilemma-we-are-100-per-cen...

Not surprisingly the death of their doctor has affected the team. It also directly led to their hiring Leinders, which the likes of Kimmage have seized upon as evidence of doping
JLS on 07 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

What just happened?

CyclingNews is reporting Wiggins has lost time and drops to 6th. Says 17sec, but was he not 30sec or so on GC ahead of his rivals yesterday?

I dont understand...
Chris the Tall - on 07 May 2013
In reply to JLS:
Sounds like he wasn't paying attention towards the end, a couple of splits appeared in the peleton and he's on the wrong side of them.

Lost 17 secs on Nibbles, negating the fine effort in the TTT
JLS on 07 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Wouldn't want to be the Sky cat tonight.
Chris the Tall - on 07 May 2013
In reply to JLS:
Just looked at the final stages (via cycling flash) and it was pretty grim out there - very wet and a few tight corners. So maybe Wiggins was playing safe, but the fact that Uran was 4th implies something of a cock-up
johncoxmysteriously - on 07 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Bet Froome would have done better......

jcm
Calder - on 07 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to JLS)
> ... So maybe Wiggins was playing safe, but the fact that Uran was 4th implies something of a cock-up

Rigo to 'do a Froome'? ;)
nrhardy - on 07 May 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: roflmao
Dave Kerr - on 07 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

According to Cycling News Wiggo may have been caught behind a crash in the last 3km and so they may appeal the time gap on the last 3k rule.

Not sure about that meself, does it apply if you're behind a crash not actually in it?
Chris the Tall - on 07 May 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> According to Cycling News Wiggo may have been caught behind a crash in the last 3km and so they may appeal the time gap on the last 3k rule.
>
> Not sure about that meself, does it apply if you're behind a crash not actually in it?

Yes otherwise the guy who can't handle his bike benefits at the expense of those who he holds up
Dave Kerr - on 07 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Dave Kerr)
> [...]
>
> Yes otherwise the guy who can't handle his bike benefits at the expense of those who he holds up

I considered that but I also thought that positioning in the bunch is a skill and that being caught behind a stack is often a result of being too far down the bunch in the final stages. This was one of Armstrongs talents.

Chris the Tall - on 07 May 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:
Maybe, but that's the purpose of the rule

Anyway, they've decided that wiggins was already losing touch, so the rule doesn't apply
Chris the Tall - on 08 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Sounds like Wiggins may have lost more time today ?
Chris the Tall - on 08 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Or maybe not - though it sounds like he was struggling to keep up with the pace at the finish again, and might have lost time had there not been such a big crash

Never mind Nibbles, starting to think that both Cuddles and Rider Haystacks will finish ahead of him as well
balmybaldwin - on 08 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Just watching todays highlights, astonishing amount of water on the finish with flash flooding!
ads.ukclimbing.com
Chris the Tall - on 08 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Interesting. Have to say there is more than a little irony if Wiggins Giro chances are being undermined by team mates riding for themselves and not the team.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-plays-down-talk-of-a-colombian-conspiracy-within-team

Worth noting that that article was written this before today's stage and almost a repeat - Henao 4th, wiggins losing touch and getting caught behind a crash
JLS on 08 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Could be Wiggins' lost a bit top end speed in order to be more competitive on the hills. Hasn't it been said his climbing training numbers are his best ever? More likely, he's just being a bit over cautious on the tricky finishes. Early days.
balmybaldwin - on 09 May 2013
In reply to JLS:

Is it me or are the motorbikes especially bad at keeping out of the way and not giving drafts this year? Seen several riders taking advantage, and others having to change their course due to mopeds being on apexes and corner exits.
Enty - on 09 May 2013
In reply to JLS:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
>Early days.

Absolutely.

E
Chris the Tall - on 09 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Good win for Cav, his 98th apparently. Looks like his team were well organised this time, which augers well.

Noticed Wiggo was at the front with 3k to go. Looks like he wanted to make sure he wasn't caught out again
balmybaldwin - on 09 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

That's odd, I heard on the radio that Wiggo had been caught behind a crash 20k out... did he not loose time then?
almost sane - on 09 May 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> That's odd, I heard on the radio that Wiggo had been caught behind a crash 20k out... did he not loose time then?

Yes, he lost time. Then he worked like a hard-working-thing to get back to the front.
Chris the Tall - on 09 May 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
Yep, it looked a bit worrying for a time. He was at the back after a mechanical, there was a big crash and he was held up for a minute or two. But OPQS had just gone to the front and apparently they decided to put a lid on things until all the big names were back.

So Brad owes Cav a pint or two for that!
MF2005 - on 09 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Maybe thats why Brad took a pull at 3k to go? OPQS were looking a bit boxed then and he strung it right out.
balmybaldwin - on 09 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Bloody sky sports are rubbish at cycling coverage their highlights programme was due to air at 10pm, so when Murrays tennis match over ran, the showed that instead, fair enough, its live. What I dont get is why they didnt switch it to sky sports3 where they are instead showing wwe which isnt even a sport.

As I set it to record, ive now missed most of the eurosports highlights

Rant over
GrahamD - on 10 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> OPQS had just gone to the front and apparently they decided to put a lid on things until all the big names were back.

If you had the fastest finisher who had just struggled to stay on the pace the day before, its exacly what you would expect ?
John Rushby - on 10 May 2013
In reply to MF2005:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
> Maybe thats why Brad took a pull at 3k to go? OPQS were looking a bit boxed then and he strung it right out.

I think it's exactly why he took his turn on the front - to show his respect for the 40 odd riders stopping. In doing so allowed the sprint teams to marshall themselves, whilst also showing that Sky would not context the sprint by way of acknowledgement of them stopping.
Chris the Tall - on 10 May 2013
In reply to GrahamD:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> [...]
>
> If you had the fastest finisher who had just struggled to stay on the pace the day before, its exacly what you would expect ?

Er, no. If they had any doubts in Cav they'd have been more than happy to see the field reduced, whilst they would have wanted to keep the speed up to ward off any solo attacks.
There aren't going to be many stages that really suit Cav in this race so unless he's in the running for the red jersey I think he may withdraw next week
GrahamD - on 10 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

I'm genuinely intersted in this. If OPQS thought upping the pace was right for their leader, why wouldn't they do that ? From a total newbie perspective I'd have thought they would have no doubt they could back him if he was in the mix for a sprint finish but were less certain of him not being dropped by a fast overall pace - but I guess the flat course means thats unlikely ?
Chris the Tall - on 10 May 2013
In reply to John Rushby:
I'm sure that was part of it, but I reckon the fact it was the 3k mark was significant. But it was good to see him a bit more active and alert.

So how much time do we expect him to take on Saturday ?

Looking at the two TTs is last years TDF
Stage 9, 41.5, Nibbles + 2'07, Cuddles + 1'43
Stage 19, 53.5, Nibbles + 3'38, Cuddles + 5'54

Tommorrow's is 54.8 km, so anything less than 2 mins will be worrying, anything over 4 and he'll be on his way to a peerage!
Chris the Tall - on 10 May 2013
In reply to GrahamD:
The reason OPQS dropped the pace was to neutralise the stage until those caught up in the crash were back in the peleton, although it might have been Katusha (race leader's team) that made the decision, and may have been a bit unfair on the likes of Garmin whose leader wasn't caught up.

OPQS tactics would normally be to keep the pace high on a flat stage - no risk of Cav being dropped as he would be slipstreaming all day - and make sure that no breakaways work. Their problem is that the better Cav is, the more work they have to do, cos other teams are less inclined to help. This is the problem GB had at the olympics.
IainAM on 10 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

It seems to be a tricky course, a lot of climbing and technical riding that might even things out a bit.

As a selfish arm-chair spectator I'd like things to be close-ish for some good racing next week.

(I like Cuddles btw, suits him)
Hephaestus - on 10 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Oh dear, Wiggins has had a poor day and lost 1min20 after crashing on a very wet descent. Nibali also had an off, but recovered to finish at the front of the peleton with Evans et al.

Is Cadel Evans the dark horse for a comeback win?
ripper - on 10 May 2013
In reply to Hephaestus: yep, he (Wiggles) will have to kick some ass tomorrow just to get back on terms, never mind taking time out of his rivals. Should still take the lead but not by as much as he'd have hoped, is my guess.
Hephaestus - on 10 May 2013
In reply to ripper:
> (In reply to Hephaestus) yep, he (Wiggles) will have to kick some ass tomorrow just to get back on terms, never mind taking time out of his rivals. Should still take the lead but not by as much as he'd have hoped, is my guess.

He's going to have to walk the walk in the mountains, now (is there a cycling version of this? Boucle le boucle?) after telling everyone about his numbers in training.
Chris the Tall - on 10 May 2013
In reply to ripper:
Quite apart from any injuries he might have picked up today, it does sound like he's well short of his best form - he was off the back of the lead group even before the fall.

I don't think we should assume he will win the stage, let alone do enough to take the lead. Hopefully I'll be wrong, and of course even just winning the stage will be a good result.
IainAM on 10 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to ripper)
>he was off the back of the lead group even before the fall.
>
Was he gapped on the climb? That really doesn't bode well.

Finger's crossed the roads are dry tomorrow
Chris the Tall - on 10 May 2013
In reply to IainAM:
Just seen some highlights on YouTube and very impressed with the way Nibbles handled his crash - looked like he was back on his feet without losing momentum.

Just wondering if wiggins is still suffering from saddle sores ? Would explain both his phyical state and his temperament. Mind you, I'd be a bit grumpy if someone came too close to me on a motorbike in those conditions.
Minneconjou Sioux - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Hephaestus:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> Oh dear, Wiggins has had a poor day and lost 1min20 after crashing on a very wet descent. Nibali also had an off, but recovered to finish at the front of the peleton with Evans et al.
>
> Is Cadel Evans the dark horse for a comeback win?

I'm thinking that Hajedal (sp?) might be in contention again.
Chris the Tall - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Thought it was looking good for Wiggins, having overtaken 3 riders already, but he's only 7th at the first split. Confused.
Dave Kerr - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
> Thought it was looking good for Wiggins, having overtaken 3 riders already,

He is in amongst the punters which would explain the overtakes.
Chris the Tall - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:
Daniels Da Luca is no punter!

Wiggins had to have a bike change, which explains a bit.

Still good to see Dowsett at the top of the board at the moment
Dave Kerr - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

I did mean that tongue in cheek!
ClimberEd - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: if Wiggins doesn't win this I fear it sets a really poor psychological marker and that's his giro over.

Very frustrating. I enjoy watching others race for second
Chris the Tall - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:
Up to 5th, but almost a minute down. Game over
ads.ukclimbing.com
Dave Kerr - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Strong ride from Henao. That looks like a tough finish.
Dave Kerr - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

10s down? How did he pull that back?
The New NickB - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> 10s down? How did he pull that back?

No chip on the replacement bike, hand timings a little bit out.
ClimberEd - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: but a very good finish.

Dowsett needs to stop looking like he is about to pee in his lycra
Dave Kerr - on 11 May 2013
In reply to The New NickB:

That makes sense.
Chris the Tall - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:
According to the radio, the intermediate times would be based a transponder on his first bike, which was on top of the car following him!

Also some speculation that he may have crashed before his bike change.

Dowsett's time is looking good, so maybe 10 secs isn't bad.
Chris the Tall - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Still a chance wiggo will be in the top three on the gc, but sounds like nibbles will have a good lead
Chris the Tall - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Gesink and Evans will be above him
Chris the Tall - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
> Still a chance wiggo will be in the top three on the gc, but sounds like nibbles will have a good lead

Or maybe not, sounds like Nibbles went too fast at the start. Evans in Pink ?
Dave Kerr - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Hesjedal has properly blown.

andy - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
> Still a chance wiggo will be in the top three on the gc, but sounds like nibbles will have a good lead

A brilliant performance from Mr Nibbles - but how on earth does wiggo manage to have a puncture in a TT? Surely some mechanic needs firing.

It'll be interesting to see if Sky can actually attack rather than defend.

And bloody well done alex dowsett!
Chris the Tall - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
A Brit 1-2, can't be too disappointed
andy - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: wiggo 1:16 down on Mr Nibbles. Interesting...
Dave Kerr - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Now we'll see Wiggins mettle. Does he have the ability to fight for it?
IainAM on 11 May 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:

A brilliant ride from Dowsett!

I don't think Wiggins can do it now, doesn't look like he's riding up ( and definitely not down) hill fast enough to make up the time. Fingers crossed for a podium spot, there are lot of good riders there.
ClimberEd - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Can we have ABN - anyone but Nibali.

I just can't bear how partisan the Giro is and want anyone other than an Italian to win.
balmybaldwin - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Haven't seen any footage yet, but BBC are reporting that after the bike change Wiggins was on a standard road bike is this true? and if so why on earth did he not have a spare TT bike?
ClimberEd - on 11 May 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Not true.
interdit - on 11 May 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> Haven't seen any footage yet, but BBC are reporting that after the bike change Wiggins was on a standard road bike is this true? and if so why on earth did he not have a spare TT bike?

They are maybe getting confused as he didn't have a spare Bolide (his new Pinarello TT bike). His spare was his Graal, which he has won numerous TTs on.
balmybaldwin - on 11 May 2013
In reply to interdit:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
> [...]
>
> They are maybe getting confused as he didn't have a spare Bolide (his new Pinarello TT bike). His spare was his Graal, which he has won numerous TTs on.

Ah Ok thanks... still begs the question why he doesn't have a spare PInarello

I wonder if Sky will bother showing the highlights at all today, they didn't yesterday or Thursday - will watch eurosport tonight i think
interdit - on 11 May 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to interdit)
> [...]
>
> Ah Ok thanks... still begs the question why he doesn't have a spare PInarello

The Graal is a Pinarello.

The Bolide has been built specially. Only one available at the moment - and Wiggo threw it in a bush, as per his usual reaction when something goes wrong with the kit.
andy - on 11 May 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to interdit)
> [...]
>
> Ah Ok thanks... still begs the question why he doesn't have a spare PInarello
>
> I wonder if Sky will bother showing the highlights at all today, they didn't yesterday or Thursday - will watch eurosport tonight i think

They jolly well did show it yesterday - half nine.
Talius Brute - on 11 May 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> Haven't seen any footage yet, but BBC are reporting that after the bike change Wiggins was on a standard road bike is this true? and if so why on earth did he not have a spare TT bike?

BBC should not be allowed anywhere near road cycling, they haven't got a fuggin' clue about it.
balmybaldwin - on 11 May 2013
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
> [...]
>
> They jolly well did show it yesterday - half nine.

In that case the series link buggered up, when I got in at 11 there was no sign of it!
The New NickB - on 11 May 2013
In reply to Talius Brute:

I am pretty sure the misunderstanding was balmys not the BBCs, I was listening to the 5extra coverage and following the BBC live text, neither talked about a road bike, they did discuss the problems Wiggins has had with the 2013 TT bike and that the switched bike was the 2012 model that the rest of the team are riding.
balmybaldwin - on 11 May 2013
In reply to The New NickB:

You made me doubt my ability to read for a minute then, but no, it was the bbc:

"Just how good his time was became apparent when Wiggins, the Olympic time trial champion, reached the first intermediate checkpoint at 26km 52 seconds adrift, although Wiggins had been forced to change his time trial bike for a normal road one after suffering a puncture. "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/22494835
The New NickB - on 11 May 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

The review article, no excuse for that.
Chris the Tall - on 12 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Another tough day for wiggo, a minute back at one stage, so great effort to finish in the same group as Nibbles and Evans.

But the fact that Uran and Henao weren't called back to help him would indicate that sky are hedging their bets. Has to be a question mark over him finishing.

Also Cav lost the red jersey, and has very few chances to pick up anything until the final stage, so I wonder if he will nip home and stay there
andy - on 12 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: You wonder what would have happened if it hadn't lashed it down - Wiggo's only seems to be losing time on descents!
JLS on 12 May 2013
In reply to andy:

You sort of wonder if during some of SKY's marginal gains thought experiments anyone asked, "What if it rains?"
malk - on 12 May 2013
In reply to andy: compact crankset for the win:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8Um-5x0Gho
Chris the Tall - on 12 May 2013
In reply to andy:
Good news that they are heading to the alps, and then the Dolomites, it never rains up there!
Enty - on 12 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to andy)
> Good news that they are heading to the alps, and then the Dolomites, it never rains up there!

They haven't even finished clearing The Galibier yet.

E
Chris the Tall - on 12 May 2013
In reply to Enty:
Just watching some highlights and Betancur thinks he's won the stage - wished they showed his reaction when realised he hadn't !
Minneconjou Sioux - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Enty)
> Just watching some highlights and Betancur thinks he's won the stage - wished they showed his reaction when realised he hadn't !

Not sure if he did or was just happy to come second. He had an earpiece in so you'd think he would have known.

I bet Hesjedal was happy that I backed him to do better ;-)

Perhaps I should start backing Nibbles
Enty - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to andy)
> Good news that they are heading to the alps, and then the Dolomites, it never rains up there!

Have you seen the forecast for the coming week :-((((

E
Henry Iddon - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Enty:

Brad's problems descending in the wet are staggering. Big Ted has compared them to that of a novice, and even senior people at BC / Sky are baffled. It certainly makes a mockery of all the 'marginal gains' stuff - and maybe underlines DB's obsession with 'science' over 'experience'.

Re Cav's quest for the points jersey - points are handed out the same for all stages in the Giro - in the TdF they are weighted towards flat stages - so in the Giro they award a more 'all round' rider as opposed to a sprinter.
mark s - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Henry Iddon: brads descending is piss poor.i could go quicker.its losing time hand over fist.he needs to sort it out,there are some big descents coming in the next couple of weeks.
Henry Iddon - on 13 May 2013
In reply to mark s:

"Let's be honest," he said. "I descended like bit of a girl really after the crash... Not to disrespect girls, I have one at home. But that's life and we have to push on and deal with the disappointments."
balmybaldwin - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

I've said it before, but the organisers really do nee dto sort out the press and TV bikes, I haven't seen a stage yet where riders haven't been hindered or assisted by the bikes, its disgraceful
Chris the Tall - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Henry Iddon:
> (In reply to mark s)
>
> "Let's be honest," he said. "I descended like bit of a girl really after the crash... Not to disrespect girls, I have one at home. But that's life and we have to push on and deal with the disappointments."

It's actually quite reassuring to hear him coming out with such comments, makes me think he isn't going to throw in the towel just yet. Though if he's seen the weather forecast....

Maybe he should spend more time in East lancs and less in Tenerife?

Chris the Tall - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Henry Iddon:

> Re Cav's quest for the points jersey - points are handed out the same for all stages in the Giro - in the TdF they are weighted towards flat stages - so in the Giro they award a more 'all round' rider as opposed to a sprinter.

Which is the way it should be - it's the most consistent finisher, not the best sprinter. And Evans is looking a good bet for it, as well doing a lot better overall than I was expecting
andy - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Henry Iddon)
> [...]
>
> It's actually quite reassuring to hear him coming out with such comments, makes me think he isn't going to throw in the towel just yet. Though if he's seen the weather forecast....
>
> Maybe he should spend more time in East lancs and less in Tenerife?

Too right - shit myself coming off Waddington Fell in the wet last week...

mark s - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Henry Iddon:
> (In reply to mark s)
>
> "Let's be honest," he said. "I descended like bit of a girl really after the crash... Not to disrespect girls, I have one at home. But that's life and we have to push on and deal with the disappointments."

did see that and thought it was honest of him of him.
Minneconjou Sioux - on 13 May 2013
In reply to mark s:
> (In reply to Henry Iddon) brads descending is piss poor.i could go quicker.its losing time hand over fist.he needs to sort it out,there are some big descents coming in the next couple of weeks.

Remember that he did actually come off. And I think that is as much a roll of the dice as it is handling skills. So it is likely his confidence that is shaken and that isn't quite so easy to fix.

Given the number of things that have not gone well for him I think he is doing ok. Remember that the front runners can have some bad luck also.
Minneconjou Sioux - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Minneconjou Sioux:

I was actually more interested in the ongoing battle of words between the two king of the mountain (or whatever its called) contestants.

I thought they were going to stop and punch it out at one point.
balmybaldwin - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Minneconjou Sioux:
> (In reply to Minneconjou Sioux)
>
> I was actually more interested in the ongoing battle of words between the two king of the mountain (or whatever its called) contestants.
>
> I thought they were going to stop and punch it out at one point.

Was good wasn't it!
tim000 - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: if wiggo is struggleing on the decents surely the plan should be to get to the summit in first place and have a free road ahead to start the decent.
Aly - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: Although unless it's a Giro with a lot of flat or moderate stages the points jersey ends up going to one of the GC contenders. I quite like the fact that the way it works at the tour is that it's a competition for riders who aren't GC riders (Hushovd, Cavendish, Sagan etc.) rather than an extra prize for one of the GC riders. If you look through the last few years the points jersey winner is almost always also top 10 in the GC.

Cav was really unlucky last year though, if he'd placed anywhere in the top few riders and hadn't crashed out in the first three(?) flat stages he'd have won it.
JYates on 13 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Im surprised by the amount of mechanical issues wiggins has been having not just in the tour but in races prior to this this season. Im well aware this happens but it makes me wonder at times if the mechanics are missing something? I do think that he is doing well considering the issues and putting up a good fight. Lets hope he can continue fighting!
nrhardy - on 14 May 2013
Anyone got a link for live feed?
Chris the Tall - on 14 May 2013
nrhardy - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: Sky have sent a man up the road!!!!!
andy - on 14 May 2013
In reply to nrhardy: Blimey - d'you think that means they've given up on Wiggo?
Chris the Tall - on 14 May 2013
In reply to andy:
Couldn't work out why Sky were at the front when it sounded like Wiggins was struggling to stay in the group. Is the aim for Uran to go for the win, or just make the others do the work ?
nrhardy - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: Suspect it's to get Astana to do the pace setting. If they chase him down, they're expending energy and if they don't Sky get the win.
andy - on 14 May 2013
In reply to nrhardy: Wiggo's still with Nibbles so he's not blown anyway.
andy - on 14 May 2013
In reply to andy: Spoke too soon - he has now...
andy - on 14 May 2013
In reply to andy: Seems to have stopped the damage - 23 seconds down on Nibbles.
andy - on 14 May 2013
In reply to andy: 36 seconds at the finish. Oh dear.
Mike Highbury - on 14 May 2013
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to andy) Seems to have stopped the damage - 23 seconds down on Nibbles.

It was a glorious thing.

(Only this morning BW was said to boast that he prefers the steeper climbs)
Hephaestus - on 14 May 2013
In reply to andy:

Blimey - another 30 or 40 secs given up to Nibali and Cadel Evans. He just drops time every time the road goes steeply up OR down.
Chris the Tall - on 14 May 2013
In reply to andy:
Wiggins finishes 10th, loses time to Nibbles and Cuddles, but up to 3rd

Or maybe not, is Uran 3rd ? Either way it looks like he is going to be the team leader from now on. Or maybe Sky are just trying out the joint leader tactics in preperation for the tour ?
nrhardy - on 14 May 2013
In reply to andy: Quality mullet on Uran though.
Hephaestus - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Mike Highbury:
> (In reply to andy)
> [...]
> >
> (Only this morning BW was said to boast that he prefers the steeper climbs)

Well today's experience should be a lesson in hubris for the man, then. Do I have selective memory loss, or has he been all mouth this year compared to last. He's been shouting the odds on the Giro for a month or two without any results to back him up and now looks pretty foolish relying on his training numbers.

Too big for his boots, or has he always been like that?
nrhardy - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: Team Sky's Rigoberto Uran wins stage 10
Wiggins finishes 1 min 08 secs behind
Wiggins stays fourth overall (down 2 min 05)
Astana's Vincenzo Nibali retains race lead
Cadel Evans second and Uran up to third
nrhardy - on 14 May 2013
In reply to nrhardy: From the BBC coverage I should add.
Hat Dude on 14 May 2013
In reply to Hephaestus:
> (In reply to Mike Highbury)
> [...]
>

>
> Too big for his boots, or has he always been like that?

Had a few good results last year!
Hephaestus - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Hat Dude:
> (In reply to Hephaestus)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> Had a few good results last year!

Yeah, my memory's not that bad, man!

Point is, he's been bullish about the Giro, he's creating waves within the team over leadership for TdF, and he's not doing the business.

So my question is, has he got too big for his boots and taken things for granted this year?
Mike Highbury - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Hephaestus:
> (In reply to Hat Dude)
> [...]
>
> Yeah, my memory's not that bad, man!
>
> Point is, he's been bullish about the Giro, he's creating waves within the team over leadership for TdF, and he's not doing the business.
>
> So my question is, has he got too big for his boots and taken things for granted this year?

He's a time trialist who has converted to the endurance racing. Bit narrow but largely true.

This year's programme has not suited him as well as last year's.

The jokes about Sky and the rain contain a thread of truth.
tim000 - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Hephaestus:
> (In reply to Hat Dude)
>
>
> Point is, he's been bullish about the Giro,

whats he supposed to do ? say "hey everyone im going crap so attack me" a lot of the tactics is about bluffing and not letting your oppo know you are suffering.
Hephaestus - on 14 May 2013
In reply to tim000:
> (In reply to Hephaestus)
> [...]
>
> whats he supposed to do ? say "hey everyone im going crap so attack me" a lot of the tactics is about bluffing and not letting your oppo know you are suffering.

I've always been more of a "undersell, overdeliver" man, and it's possible to do this without saying you're crap.

Anyway, I'm not particularly criticising him for how he goes about his business. I just don't remember him coming out with so much of the big-man talk before and wondered if that was down to the sheer increase in media attention making it sound worse or if I just don't remember it from last year.

Reply to Mike: Yep, agree with all that.
fxceltic on 14 May 2013
In reply to Hephaestus:
> (In reply to tim000)
> [...]

> Anyway, I'm not particularly criticising him for how he goes about his business. I just don't remember him coming out with so much of the big-man talk before and wondered if that was down to the sheer increase in media attention making it sound worse or if I just don't remember it from last year.
>

well, you sort of are.

Anyway, its going to be more down to the sorts of questions he is now asked since he is now reigning TdF champion and multi gold winning olympic medallist and a knight of the realm no less.

Also, man wins everything going and self belief increases is hardly a surprise story is it?

As for underselling and overdelivering and how you can do this, Im sure you can, in a normal day job where you arent being attacked every day you leave the house (metaphorically speaking, while riding), and without various journalists after a good quote incessantly, and people on social media criticising him etc etc

Im not a fan boy, dont think he can win this Giro, but do have massive respect for him, and if he thinks he can win, fair enough, nothing wrong with saying it.

Its also a very long way from being over yet, literally anything can still happen to nibbles, cuddles, et al.
Chris the Tall - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Hephaestus:
So last year, when he was in stunning form pre-tour, but not the pre-race favourite, he downplayed it. On the other hand this year, in somewhat poorer form, and the pre-race favourite for the Giro, he's talked himself up.

Not too difficult to see why - last year he wanted to take people by suprise but this year he's hoping to bluff his opponents into being more cautious when attacking him.

Has to be said Evans is the big suprise so far, nothing in in his early season to indicate that he was back to 2011 form
GrahamD - on 14 May 2013
In reply to fxceltic:

> Its also a very long way from being over yet, literally anything can still happen to nibbles, cuddles, et al.

Anything, including a change in Sky team lead on this race !

Liam Brown - on 14 May 2013
In reply to GrahamD:

Well, Uran is looking the strongest rider in the team if not the race? Exciting huh.
Enty - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Hephaestus:

Wiggins said he was going to target the Giro and give it everything - fair play.
It's the media who have been doing the big-man stuff on his behalf.
I might be wrong but has Wiggins actually said "I'm going to win the effin Giro"?

E
stouffer on 14 May 2013
In reply to Enty: I'd agree, it's been more the British media that have been inflating his chances and we all know what experts they are.

Anyone that has actually watched any cycling this year could see that Wiggins' lack of form (and the form of his opponents) would make it a bit daft to tout him as favourite. Still, it's a bit disappointing, which goes to show how spoilt we've got all been lately. It's far from over yet anyway and let's not forget three British stage wins already.
Enty - on 14 May 2013
In reply to stouffer:

We have a freelance sport journalist staying with us this week and he's explained how it works:

Editor - Is Bradley Wiggins going to win the Giro?
Journo - Oh yes, he stated he's going to smash it!
Editor - Great, get on it. All expenses paid to Italy in May.

Or:

Editor - Is Bradley Wiggins going to win the Giro?
Journo - Not too sure, he's 34, climbing well but the Giro is a lottery to be honest.
Editor - No problem, I think you might be better at the Rugby League Cup Final.

E
JLS on 15 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

It doesn't look great for Wiggo. Maybe he didn't do enough work over the winter or maybe he's just been unlucky enough to come down with the cold at the wrong time - not easy to knock out world class performances when most people would be watching Jermy Kyle with a lemsip.

Sitting 4th - it could be worse... I'd be happy with 4th.
mark s - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Enty: ha.I know where I would rather be.italy looked beautiful yesterday.

I think the first half of the individual tt is where he lost a lot of time.
As others have said ,its far from over.although there are some strong riders to beat.
In reply to mark s:
> I think the first half of the individual tt is where he lost a lot of time.

IS that actually the case?

I thought there was something weird going on there since he looked superb and then came through in 7th place at the first checkpoint, then he was 4th or 5th at the last time check just before the final ascent, and then suddenly he came in second only 10 seconds behind.

I had read somewhere that the time for the two check points was taken on the bike he disguarded which was in the following Sky car, and not his actual time. If this is true then he was probably only second behind Dowsett at all the check points anyway.

Alan
The New NickB - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

He admited to be struggling for rhythm over the early miles if the TT, plus of course there was the bike change. As good a TTer as Dowsett is, Wiggins should have beat him and beat Nibbles and Cuddles by more.
Chris the Tall - on 15 May 2013
In reply to The New NickB:
The first half of the TT course was very twisty, so not particularly suited to Wiggins, who is better on straighter roads where he can stay in his pursuit position for longer.

This week has shown he is not the best bike handler in the peloton (and wouldn't be the best in the women's peloton either!) but it should be remembered that he did concentrate on track cycling for much of his career, and his transition from Olympic gold medalist on the track to TDF winner is unique.

I really hope he sticks it out, even if he finishes outside the top 3, it will still be one of the best British performances in the Giro
Jim Hamilton - on 15 May 2013
In reply to anyone:

I realise remaining seated is meant to use less energy, but can any cycling experts explain why BW seems to almost refuse to stand on the pedals when it comes to the extra steep bits. At about just over 3k to go, all his rivals stand on the pedals and BW is immediately distanced.
Toby_W on 15 May 2013
In reply to Jim Hamilton: I think it's individual style, I do a lot of hill riding and you can see how each gradient plays to a different build and strength. I find it makes about a 10bpm difference at least getting out of the saddle and that would be for a slower speed at the same effort.
I am almost the same size and build as Wiggins, I'm quick up hills and can beat smaller lighter guys up a lot but as soon as it gets steep enough that out of the saddle becomes an option the advantage shifts, they can kick harder and if I match them not only am I blowing energy like there's no tomorrow I'm using a lot more that they are so tactically it would be better for me to stay seated.

Cheers

Toby

Just looked him up, 190cm tall and 77kg so the smaller guys may be 10kg lighter.
Chris the Tall - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Jim Hamilton:
It's the Team Sky way, and again I think it has it's has a lot to do with their roots in team pursuiting. It's been described as "riding on the red line" - a measured pace that you can maintain for for the whole race without dipping into the red. What we saw last year was Sky maintaining a high pace on the climbs, which makes it hard for people to attack, but even if they do then they don't get very far before they start to suffer and Sky, keeping a steady pace, reeling them back in. Not very exciting perhaps, but effective.

For example yesterday Uran didn't really attack in the classic sense, he stayed in the saddle and just rode away from the field, and only got out of the saddle a couple of times. Had Wiggins tried to keep up when the rest attacked, he would have quickly blown up and lost even more time.
PeterM - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Jim Hamilton:
I'm sure BW prefers seated with a bigger cog on the rear cassette. Pretty sure he ran a 32 on a stage in last years TdF. Others may stick to a 25
stouffer on 15 May 2013
In reply to Jim Hamilton: Didn't do Indurain any harm.
stouffer on 15 May 2013
In reply to Enty: Excellent, now I see. So David Bond's actually very shrewd rather than clueless.

Does anything know if there was anything in the rumours of Wiggo being a bit under the weather earlier on in the race too? Watching this race makes a mockery of people saying last year's TDF win was easy, shows you really do need it all come together, the right form, the right team, the right course, staying clear of crashes and illness etc.
ads.ukclimbing.com
PeterM - on 15 May 2013
Chris the Tall - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
First positive of the race - Sylvain Georges from AG2R. He's not started, but I'd like to see the rest of the team should withdraw as well (and not just because of their hideous brown shorts).

Meanwhile reading about todays stage lead me to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajont_Dam , which is an amazing and bloody awful story I hadn't heard before
Minneconjou Sioux - on 15 May 2013
In reply to :

Did anyone else see that poor spectator fall off the edge of the road on yesterday's stage. It was comedy moment of the year but I hope the poor chap is ok. He could have gone a long way!
balmybaldwin - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Minneconjou Sioux:

I spotted that, about 4K out, and also noticed that Wiggo spotted it and seemed to be trying to surpress a fit of the giggles!
Minneconjou Sioux - on 15 May 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

My wife (who now has to endure my new found passion for the sport) nearly wet herself. Clearly the program producer spotted it cos he went for a replay.

Surely must be a you tube moment?
Minneconjou Sioux - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Minneconjou Sioux:

Here ya go:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/blazin-saddles/spectator-falls-down-hill-while-watching-giro-185...

Life is so cruel these days. Now the whole world gets to see your embarrassing moments
mark s - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: I've also been reading about the dam
Chris the Tall - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
No change in the GC, but apparently Wiggins tells Italian TV he's got a chest infection and a cold - that would explain a lot. And he's doing bloody well in that case !
Chris the Tall - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Looking really grim for the next week

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/snow-expected-for-giro-ditalia-mountain-stages

Is it sensible for Wiggins to continue if he is already ill ?
johncoxmysteriously - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Depends how ill, I guess.

jcm
Chris the Tall - on 16 May 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Losing more time today, at least a couple of minutes. It's a flat stage, but a fast pace in dreadful conditions.
Hephaestus - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
I'd be tempted to jack it in if I was in perfect health! Looks minging, and if the snow is going to start falling at 1300m, that's a lot of time spent in the teeth of a nasty storm...

Grauniad says Wiggins in 2:40 down with Nibali catching the breakaway. Uran, though is up with the main group, so carrying the fight for sky.
Enty - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Hephaestus:

Wiggo needs to get out of there now - or the rest of the season could quite easily go down the pan.

E
Mike Highbury - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to Hephaestus)
>
> Wiggo needs to get out of there now - or the rest of the season could quite easily go down the pan.
>
> E

Keep him in then

(I prefer my pricks with more blood in them)
John Rushby - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Enty:

Agree - he's clearly ill and given the forecast if he tries to stay with it he risks losing the entire season.

andy - on 16 May 2013
In reply to John Rushby: and Froome could do with him being fit in July too. At least it explains why he's seemed so off the pace on relatively mild stages - if Cav can hack the pace you'd expect Wiggo to be up there.
Hephaestus - on 16 May 2013
In reply to andy:

Not wrong about Wiggins and Cav (how does he do that, btw? Amazing finish again), but Froome might be happy to have the team to himself in July, no?
andy - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Hephaestus: i'm assuming wiggo plays the game and does the support thing - if he's going to race for himself no doubt froome'd rather he wasn't there. And you might be right - he'd maybe rather not have him there at all so there's no doubt about the leader.

Assuming Wiggo jacks it'll be interesting to see Uran taking on Nibbles (although as I have money on Nibbles not too interesting).
Henry Iddon - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Enty:

Yup no point grinding on. In some respects I think he's suffering from lack of a proper mental break from last season.
Dave Kerr - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Now that the British interest in the over all is all over I'm wondering what the resurgent Cadel can do.
mark s - on 16 May 2013
Dave Kerr - on 16 May 2013
Jim Hamilton - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Henry Iddon:

But he would then be accused of "giving up" - it's not over til the 8 ball goes down etc, teammate bounced back after same illness, Brailsford talking about showing character after earlier stage disappointment..
Dave Kerr - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Jim Hamilton:

I'd rather see him quit and win some races later in the year. At the end of the day it's wins that are remembered not a gritty top 20 finish that ruins the rest of your season.

Enty - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Jim Hamilton:
> (In reply to Henry Iddon)
>
> But he would then be accused of "giving up" -

Only by the ill informed - that won't bother him.

E
mark s - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:
> (In reply to mark s)
>
> http://tinyurl.com/c5jhq5b

is he wearing ski goggles?
Dave Kerr - on 16 May 2013
In reply to mark s:

It would seem appropriate. Possibly the greatest grand tour stage ever.
Talius Brute - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:

Andy Hampsten I assume? (hard to see....)
Enty - on 16 May 2013
Dave Kerr - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Enty:

That was a few years before I started following cycling. Probably wasn't on the telly in the UK at that time anyway.
Talius Brute - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Enty:

not seen that before, that's v good!
Chris the Tall - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Today's great comedy moment

- http://t.co/4KfzYEZlCu

Given that these guys were only caught 500m from the line I wonder how much difference it made
Talius Brute - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

There's a warning for anyone descending in the rain there, they weren't pushing it at all and the lead bike had very little lean.
stouffer on 16 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: Speaking of comedy moments, what's up with those Giro helmets? I've got an old one circa 1996 that looks right up there with them.

stouffer on 16 May 2013
In reply to stouffer: Oh and let's hear it hear for Cav's ton. He's still delivering the goods. Funny that's it's really only news when he loses.
Chris the Tall - on 16 May 2013
In reply to stouffer:
Cav losing is now in the category of Man bites dog !

Pretty incredible tally of wins. 3 chances in the giro so far, 3 wins. Maybe a 4th tomorrow, but after that he'll have a week of real suffering.
Henry Iddon - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Jim Hamilton:

No point in rolling round - he as there to win or at least podium. Anyway he's rightly pulled out now.
Hephaestus - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to Talius Brute)
>
> Gavia Pass 1988
>
> http://www.bikeradar.com/blog/article/true-stories-andy-hampsten-the-gavia-1988-12016/
>
> E

Comedy Gold:
Riders would routinely take it in turns to be on the outside of the peloton bearing the brunt of the bitter coldness before being allowed into the relative warmth of the centre while others did their icy turn. As highlighted by the recent Hollywood blockbuster The March of the Penguins, these so-called birds have learned to behave in much the same way.

stouffer on 17 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: When they hit the mountains Cav's tweets are always entertaining, he looks forward to a climb of the Galibier as much as I would.
Minneconjou Sioux - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Henry Iddon:
> (In reply to Jim Hamilton)
>
> No point in rolling round - he as there to win or at least podium. Anyway he's rightly pulled out now.

Sooooooo. What does this mean for the TDF? Assuming this is simply a chest infection and he can recover quickly will he want to go for the win?
Chris the Tall - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Minneconjou Sioux:

I've said all along that Nibbles was the favourite and that Wiggins was not going as well as was claimed. However, until yesterday, he was doing bloody well when you consider how much wasn't going his way (bad weather, untimely punctures, difficult course but most of all the sort of illness that would keep most of us tucked up in bed)

So maybe, just maybe, he is in good form, and has improved his climbing, and given better luck and better conditions at the tour he could still be a contender. Froome has to be the leader, but as long as they don't saddle Wiggins with too much work he could stay high enough up in the GC to pose a few questions.

Not checked the route but if there is any early TT could Wiggins take the lead, leaving the way for Froome to attack in the mountains ?
Minneconjou Sioux - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Hephaestus:
> (In reply to Mike Highbury)
> [...]
>
> Well today's experience should be a lesson in hubris for the man, then. Do I have selective memory loss, or has he been all mouth this year compared to last. He's been shouting the odds on the Giro for a month or two without any results to back him up and now looks pretty foolish relying on his training numbers.
>
> Too big for his boots, or has he always been like that?

Its this wonderful British attitude to success that I don't understand. Here we have a man who has just won the TdF, an Olympic Gold and had a pretty impressive cycling career and yet he has become "too big for his boots".

Its a shame that the Giro hasn't worked out for him, I hope the TdF does but in the end I'm just glad that he has already achieved what he has.

I see Hesjedal has binned it also. Looks like Nibbles will have it his own way unless Evans really comes on or perhaps Uran can now be set free?

Alan Taylor - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Minneconjou Sioux: With Wiggins gone Uran and Henao may attack over the next few stages, should be good watching anyway.
Chris the Tall - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
4 from 4 !
a lakeland climber on 17 May 2013
In reply to Alan Taylor:

And it's CAV!!!!

ALC
Alan Taylor - on 17 May 2013
In reply to a lakeland climber: Win number 101
wynaptomos - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Alan Taylor:
> (In reply to Minneconjou Sioux) With Wiggins gone Uran and Henao may attack over the next few stages, should be good watching anyway.

Don't know much about Uran. From what I've seen he seems a good climber but how is he at the time trials compared to Nibali and Evans?
biped - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Minneconjou Sioux:
> (In reply to Hephaestus)
> [...]
>
> Its this wonderful British attitude to success that I don't understand. Here we have a man who has just won the TdF, an Olympic Gold and had a pretty impressive cycling career and yet he has become "too big for his boots".

Yep. You'd think Wiggins was some Johnny come lately. His cycling style might not be a la Hinault blood and guts and therefore maybe not what the public want but he's a racer not a showman, and it works for him. He is also, imho, a brilliant advertisement for cycling.

I will be interested in how the dynamic between him and Froome works out. He was very sporting in last years TdF (the tacks, going for Cav's win on the penultimate stage) and always comes across as being level headed and magnanimous, yet he came out of David Millar's book as being very selfish. He's older and wiser of course. I do hope he recovers enough to give a good account of himself in The Tour.
Chris the Tall - on 17 May 2013
In reply to wynaptomos:
Given the way he rode the other day, and given the way the team trains, I would expect him to at least hold his own in the mountain TT next week.

Whether he can pick up any time is another matter. Plus, I seem to remember he faded a bit at last years Giro. Even so I wouldn't be suprised if he takes second from Cuddles
Chris the Tall - on 17 May 2013
In reply to biped:
The sight of the yellow jersey leading out a sprint on the Champs Elysee is pretty unusual, the fact that it was one brit working for another made it one of the sporting highlights of the year (and in any other year it would have head and shoulders above the rest).

Nonetheless I do wonder if part of Wiggins motivation was to answer Millar's accusation of selfishness.
Minneconjou Sioux - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to biped)
>
>
> Nonetheless I do wonder if part of Wiggins motivation was to answer Millar's accusation of selfishness.

I can't believe there are many top athlete's out the who are not selfish. I haven't read Millar's book so I don't know the context but I'd be surprised if Wiggins went that far out of his way in order to appease a crtisism that could likely be levelled at many other riders.
Dave Kerr - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to biped)
> > Nonetheless I do wonder if part of Wiggins motivation was to answer Millar's accusation of selfishness.

Millar is a dick who rarely has anything of worth to say.

Of course that's just like my opinion. Man.
Chris the Tall - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Last 25 mins

http://giro.cyclingfever.com/editie.html?_p=etappe&detp=view2&id=23678&etappe_id=28627&a...

The arial shot (26 mins in) shows you how much Cav had to do, and how well he does it!
Dave Kerr - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Pure class.
mark s - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> Pure class.

exactly .

he seems to be getting better going uphill as well.although the alps will be a different story

balmybaldwin - on 18 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Weather has forced a change to todays route, and looks like the Galibier is off tomorrow too, judging by the fact that they cant get live pics at the moment, im sue brad is quite happy to be tucked up under his duvet!
Chris the Tall - on 18 May 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
Apparently Millar has joined him. Possibly not under the same duvet, but same illness.
Alan Taylor - on 18 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: Nibali strengthens his lead
Henry Iddon - on 18 May 2013
In reply to biped:
> (In reply to Minneconjou Sioux)
> [...]
>
> yet he came out of David Millar's book as being very selfish. He's older and wiser of course. I do hope he recovers enough to give a good account of himself in The Tour.

I really don't think Millar is in a position to accuse anyone of being 'selfish'. He carried out the ultimate selfish action and doped.
balmybaldwin - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Snowing hard at the finish, Galibier looks even more uninviting today!
Chris the Tall - on 21 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Cavendish still in red, but lead down to 6 points - looks like they were hoping the break would stick but there was no let up from Nibbles and Cuddles.

Tomorrow has a similiar finish, but only a cat 4, so I'd expect OPQS to try to set up a sprint.

Would be a big triumph for Cav if he wins the points jersey - I think only 4 others have won all three
Minneconjou Sioux - on 22 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
> Cavendish still in red, but lead down to 6 points - looks like they were hoping the break would stick but there was no let up from Nibbles and Cuddles.
>
> Tomorrow has a similiar finish, but only a cat 4, so I'd expect OPQS to try to set up a sprint.
>
> Would be a big triumph for Cav if he wins the points jersey - I think only 4 others have won all three

Out of interest, if Cav decides to bin the race, do his points still stand?
Chris the Tall - on 22 May 2013
In reply to Minneconjou Sioux:
No - you need to finish the race to win the jersey. His stage wins would still stand, and the points aren't reallocated.

Just wondering if anyone has ever won more points than the eventual winner ? Cippolini perhaps ?
Minneconjou Sioux - on 22 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Thanks. If he falls out of contention for the jersey is he likely to quit the race?
Dave Kerr - on 22 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Can't help feeling the scenery is much better in the Giro than the Tour.
Chris the Tall - on 22 May 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:
Should be very pretty on Saturday - if we can see anything, and the route goes ahead as planned. Neither look likely
Dave Kerr - on 22 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Another good day's racing.

Cav - I love him and firmly believe he's the best sprinter there's ever been but he really can't do hills!
Chris the Tall - on 22 May 2013
In reply to Minneconjou Sioux:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> Thanks. If he falls out of contention for the jersey is he likely to quit the race?

I think he'll finish. He'll still be in contention unless Evans is top 3 in both mountain stages. Don't think there are points in the TT (could be wrong)

Think Cav has held on today - picked up 4 in intermediate sprints, not sure how many Evans gets back for 10th
nufkin - on 22 May 2013
In reply to Henry Iddon:

> He carried out the ultimate selfish action and doped.

Eventually - because it was expected of him, and for the good of the team - arguably?
stouffer on 22 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: Evans only 4 behind now.
Chris the Tall - on 23 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> He'll still be in contention unless Evans is top 3 in both mountain stages. Don't think there are points in the TT (could be wrong)

I'm wrong - think I was thinking about the TTT

So Evans will almost certainly pick up the jersey today, and could have it wrapped up before Sunday. Cav may have to put in the effort to pick up the intermediate sprints, which could impinge on his chances in the final sprint.

Anyway MTT today - I reckon Nibbles will extend his lead, and probably win the stage


Chris the Tall - on 23 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> So Evans will almost certainly pick up the jersey today,

Wrong again - bad day at the office for Cuddles, but that may mean he now concentrates on the red jersey and makes sure he picks up points on the next two stages.

> Anyway MTT today - I reckon Nibbles will extend his lead, and probably win the stage

Well I got that one right at least - excellant win, race surely in the bag now. Will he focus on the tour next year to complete the GT set ?
Escher - on 23 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: But what of the next two stages, the forecasts look awful, doesn't look like they're going over the Gavia, Stelvio or Tre Cima. Wonder what they'll do?
Ian Patterson on 23 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> [...]
>
> Wrong again - bad day at the office for Cuddles, but that may mean he now concentrates on the red jersey and makes sure he picks up points on the next two stages.

Not sure about that, he was so off the pace today will he have enough left to compete in the next 2 stages? Uran and Scarponi will definitley be looking to put him under pressure.
Chris the Tall - on 23 May 2013
In reply to Escher:
The answer is simple, don't change the course, change the bikes. I go out on my mountain bike in deep snow and I don't even get paid for it!

I bet the drifts won't be as deep as this http://pic.twitter.com/ObfYcTpo00
Escher - on 23 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: Ha! That would be brilliant. Cameras on motocross bikes and DS's in Land Rovers, its the way forward.
wynaptomos - on 23 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)

>
> Well I got that one right at least - excellant win, race surely in the bag now. Will he focus on the tour next year to complete the GT set ?

So is Nibali not competing in the Tour this year? Seems a shame for him given the form he's in.
Dave Kerr - on 23 May 2013
In reply to wynaptomos:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> So is Nibali not competing in the Tour this year? Seems a shame for him given the form he's in.

It's been a long time since someone was competitive in both Tour and Giro.

Chris the Tall - on 23 May 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:
I think I saw a tweet earlier this week, can't remember who by, that said he was going to skip the tour and do the Vuelta instead But in a couple of weeks time, who knows. He's been on great form all year
Guy - on 24 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: Todays stage cancelled due to adverse weather. They had cut out the Stelvio and Gavia but have now decided the Tonale is also too dangerous.
Chris the Tall - on 24 May 2013
In reply to Guy:
Great news fo Cav, bad news for Uran, reckon Evans might have been vulnerable today

And Danilo Di Luca tests positive for EPO - which would explain why he has been so prominent in the Giro. Reading about him on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danilo_Di_Luca it's obvious why he was being targeted for testing, less obvious why he was given such a lenient sentence for the previous time he got caught
Henry Iddon - on 24 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

The sooner his generation retire the better.
Chris the Tall - on 24 May 2013
In reply to Henry Iddon:
There was a rumour going round on twitter a couple of weeks ago that a GT winner had tested positive and was about to be announced. Now it's quite possible that its a coincidence - you could start that rumour at any time and there's always a fair chance of it coming true. But I reckon DDL knew he was "glowing" when he took the test, confided in a few people, and then rode out of his skin to go out with a bang rather than a wimper.

On the other hand 3 weeks does seem a long time for an EPO test - when they caught Ricco at the tour it was only a couple of days after his stage win.
nniff - on 24 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

So, does Uran stand a chance of overhauling cuddles tomorrow or, if cuddles was a bit off-colour yesterday, does a day off help him recover?

Could cuddles pick up a few points tomorrow and if he does, is Cav likely to win the final stage.

Finally, how do you get negative points? there are 5 ridrs at the nottom of the table woith between -1 and -9 points
John Gillott - on 24 May 2013
In reply to nniff:

Reckon tomorrow will be cancelled or radically altered. This is at a mere 1500m:

http://webcam.altabadia.org/cam/meteoeye3.jpg

Forecast is for more of the same.
Mike Highbury - on 24 May 2013
In reply to nniff:
> Finally, how do you get negative points? there are 5 ridrs at the nottom of the table woith between -1 and -9 points

I have a recollection that it is for finishing outside of the time limit.

Bound to be wrong, of course.
Chris the Tall - on 24 May 2013
In reply to John Gillott:
> (In reply to nniff)
>
> Reckon tomorrow will be cancelled or radically altered. This is at a mere 1500m:
>
> http://webcam.altabadia.org/cam/meteoeye3.jpg
>
> Forecast is for more of the same.

Thats more snow than when I was skiing there in Feb 2012
Chris the Tall - on 24 May 2013
In reply to nniff:

> So, does Uran stand a chance of overhauling cuddles tomorrow or, if cuddles was a bit off-colour yesterday, does a day off help him recover?

If the stage goes ahead, and has an uphill finish, then I reckon Team sky will try and set up Uran to win. This would give him second unless Cuddles finishes the stage second with the same time. The bad news in that scenario is that unless he has another bad day he'll almost certainly get enough points to move ahead of Cav

> Could cuddles pick up a few points tomorrow and if he does, is Cav likely to win the final stage.
>
Brescia is expected to see a sprint finish, and so Cav is the favourite, especially as many of his rivals have abandoned. But OPQS have also lost Steegmans, so may struggle to control the race and set him up. Plus there's always the risk that Evans will join in the sprint and pick up some points - which is what Rodriguez did last year.

So even though the weather has spoiled the race and Nibbles has it sown it, there's still plenty of interest.
Minneconjou Sioux - on 25 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

I see Gesink hs now gone the way of Wiggins.
Chris the Tall - on 26 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Very impressive ride by Nibbles today, and by Uran. Apparently Cuddles had mechanical probs, but I reckon he would still have dropped back. However if his aim was to find some form for the tour, then he's done that.

Today should be a formality for Cav to take the red jersey, hopefully with a stage win, but you never know
Minneconjou Sioux - on 27 May 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)

> > Today should be a formality for Cav to take the red jersey, hopefully with a stage win, but you never know

Done and dusted. Well done Cav on the stage win and the red jersey and well done Nibali, Uran and Evans.

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