/ Print your own plastic gun... ..am I the only one concerned?

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Jimbo W on 06 May 2013
Clearly it'll be a while before 3D printers are more systemically present and achievable purchases for many within society, but with the proven potential to make your own gun, and the potential liberalisation of accessibility to such weaponry... ...is there anything for us to be concerned about?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22421185
dissonance - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

People have been making their own guns for years.
So long as you are willing to put up with crap accuracy and chance of it blowing up in your hand.
Not sure a 3d printer variant makes that much difference.
Jimbo W on 06 May 2013
In reply to dissonance:

> People have been making their own guns for years.
> So long as you are willing to put up with crap accuracy and chance of it blowing up in your hand.
> Not sure a 3d printer variant makes that much difference.

Yes, but its about activation energy isn't it. I mean, I made loads of stuff out of the jolly roger cook book when I was young, when I had lots of time, energy and curiousity, though I didn't make a gun, as I didn't have access to the metal tools or plans. Surely this significantly reduces the activation energy.. ..kids might not be making bow and arrows, but downloading the free to access plans and printing their own....
sjminfife - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:
I found the Texan who made this(interviewed on the BBC news) as worrying as the weapon itself. His fundemental belief that guns should be more readily available didn't exactly strike a chord with me.
sjm
BigBrother - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W: Unless you can print your own bullets it isn't really much use. I also noticed he had several barrels and it looks to be one shot only. A knife or brick is really more dangerous.
Jimbo W on 06 May 2013
In reply to sjminfife:

> I found the Texan who made this(interviewed on the BBC news) as worrying as the weapon itself. His fundemental belief that guns should be more readily available didn't exactly strike a chord with me.
> sjm

Well yes, he describes himself as some kind of anarchist, and values that it won't be possible to control the accessibility to these weapons, which I find quite frightening. People always come back to the.. .."well its the man, not the weapon that kills", which is true, but there is a huge psychological difference between making physical contact with someone to their detriment, through hands of a held weapon, and being able to do so at a relative distance.
dissonance - on 06 May 2013
In reply to BigBrother:
> (In reply to Jimbo W) Unless you can print your own bullets it isn't really much use.

bullets would be easy enough.
Home made black powder wouldnt be that difficult either although the power would be so so.
tony on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

One thought that came to my mind was that it would probably be quite easy for someone who knows how to do such things to hack into the published designs and render them inoperable, or to blow up in the users hand when the trigger is pulled.
rocky57 - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:
...is there anything for us to be concerned about?
>

For the moment I'm just going to be concerned about the cost of the cartridges. Most printer manufactures, usually see this as a way to literally print money.
DancingOnRock - on 06 May 2013
In reply to rocky57:
> (In reply to Jimbo W)
> ...is there anything for us to be concerned about?
> [...]
>
> For the moment I'm just going to be concerned about the cost of the cartridges. Most printer manufactures, usually see this as a way to literally print money.

My thoughts entirely.

I'm not that familiar with ABS but I'm guessing that you can just grind it down and reuse it.

Queue thousands of murders with no murder weapon ever found.

In the UK at least possesion of a hand gun will get you a prison sentance so it's not really relevant. Getting a gun is easy and not really a deterrent to someone with determination, it's the penalty for possession which is supposed to be the deterrent.

I'm looking forward to the day when something breaks and I can actually fix it again. Recycling in the home will become reality.
Lord_ash2000 - on 06 May 2013
In reply to BigBrother:
> (In reply to Jimbo W) Unless you can print your own bullets it isn't really much use. I also noticed he had several barrels and it looks to be one shot only. A knife or brick is really more dangerous.

For the gun he has made you are probably right. But as 3D printers become more advanced and can print in stronger materials the gun designs will advance and advance. We'll be in world where any kid can download a lethal weapon and build it at home. The problem could well be the bullets for now but I'm sure people will find ways and means.

The thing is, it can't be stopped, 3D printers will in time become cheaper and better and eventually in every home and although I'm sure there will be rules on what you can and can't print off there will always be illegal sites where people can download whatever they like.
DancingOnRock - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Lord_ash2000: The authorities will be able to tell who has downloaded what from which sites. As they can now.
Jimbo W on 06 May 2013
In reply to DancingOnRock:
> (In reply to Lord_ash2000) The authorities will be able to tell who has downloaded what from which sites. As they can now.

Yes.. ..so what happens if there are 50,000 downloads / annum
GrendeI on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

It's a crude device but deadly and unnecessary all the same, there's hardly any science there, just another means of avoiding gun control. The mindset of the american gun activist is just bewildering, in that they simply cannot take the weapons for what they are. The same people who continue preaching and practising a bizzare and quite frankly ridiculous lifestyle defined by firearms.

And with kit like this...

http://www.wimp.com/functionaltools/

It wont be long before one can scan more complex weapon components and produce them.

I also noticed in the comments, a chap sends his 7 year old daughter to school with a 'special' (assume he means .38 spc) in her lunchbox...

We have it relatively good here on this side of the pond, we really do!
dissonance - on 06 May 2013
In reply to DancingOnRock:
> (In reply to Lord_ash2000) The authorities will be able to tell who has downloaded what from which sites. As they can now.

a quick scan still gives a couple of people near me using WEP. A quick bimble into town would give a fair few more.

Or I could just boot up TOR and bounce it through a couple of additional VPNs.
Jimbo W on 06 May 2013
In reply to dissonance:

> a quick scan still gives a couple of people near me using WEP. A quick bimble into town would give a fair few more.
> Or I could just boot up TOR and bounce it through a couple of additional VPNs.

Please can you explain that in a language this idiot can understand? Thanks.
DancingOnRock - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W: He just saying that people are hiding their identities.

No doubt they are clearing their browser histories and wiping their hard drives regularly.

As I say. Lots of us don't want to kill people because we don't want to kill people. A very few people don't want to kill people because they might get caught. Even fewer people kill people and don't care if they get caught.

Worrying about printing guns, or Challenger Tanks is not worth doing, it won't change people's mindset.

Ferret on 06 May 2013
In reply to DancingOnRock: Surely proliferation has its risks however. US, virtually uncontrolled gun ownership = huge annual tally of gun deaths. UK controlled = low annual tally.

Technology allowing relatively easy circumvention of control could increase number of guns available and increase the number of feckless fools who couldn't conveniently get one before, getting one (or walter mitty's who just want to have one who then loose it/have it stolen) leading to increased gun deaths amoungst the fools, innocent bystanders and a general increase in armed robbery etc.

There are lot of fools out there who plead 'but I didn't mean to kill him' after stabbing somebody or kicking them repeatedly in the head... those same people will cheerfully carry around a plastic gun without 'meaning' to kill anybody. Then will.

Agreed, a knife or brick may be as effective but why make life easier for anybody to obtain something that is utterly unnecessary.
Orgsm on 06 May 2013
In reply to dissonance:
> (In reply to DancingOnRock)
> [...]
>
> a quick scan still gives a couple of people near me using WEP. A quick bimble into town would give a fair few more.
>
> Or I could just boot up TOR and bounce it through a couple of additional VPNs.

Or you could just use the free wifi that's out there, rather than making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Eric9Points - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

I really really hope one of them blows up in his face.

FY, ABS is the kind of plastic that the casing of your vacuum cleaner is made of. It's definitively a one shot weapon but I'm hoping he tries it a second time.
Jimbo W on 06 May 2013
In reply to Eric9Points:

> I really really hope one of them blows up in his face.
>
> FY, ABS is the kind of plastic that the casing of your vacuum cleaner is made of. It's definitively a one shot weapon but I'm hoping he tries it a second time.

I did wonder how the plastic would be that capable. My vacuum cleaner plastic is pretty beat up and broken! So you reckon a second shot would break the gun?
Eric9Points - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

Break..don't know.

I don't think the barrel can really have much rifling effect on the bullet though, I'd be very surprised if it did more than vaguely keep it going in the right direction while sustaining a lot of damage from the bullet itself and then from the hot exhaust gases.

Dauphin - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

http://www.shapeways.com/materials/steel

Sure you could create a reliable one from a high grade polymer composite.

D
Jimbo W on 06 May 2013
In reply to Eric9Points:


So it's alot of spin (nonsense) then?
Dauphin - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Dauphin:

Or ceramic.

D
dissonance - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Beat me to it!:

> Or you could just use the free wifi that's out there, rather than making it more complicated than it needs to be.

majority now require sign up and will likely have limited logging. So better to chose some unsecure connection if you are that way inclined.
dissonance - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

> So it's alot of spin (nonsense) then?

rifling isnt essential but it makes it a damn sight more accurate.
I doubt something smooth bored and with that length barrel is going to have a useful range of more than a couple of metres.
dissonance - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

> Please can you explain that in a language this idiot can understand? Thanks.

WEP is a broken security protocol. Insanely easy to crack nowadays so if you still have it change it.
However lots of people still have it, so all you would need for some "anonymous" browsing is find someone with a WEP wireless connection, crack it and then log on to dubious site and do your downloads. If the cops are monitoring means that poor sod gets the visit.
TOR and VPNs are just ways of bouncing around your own connection in a secure way to make it a lot more difficult for anyone to monitor. Not impossible but would need motivation.
Trangia - on 06 May 2013
In reply to dissonance:

In simple layman's terms what is 3D printing?
Eric9Points - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Trangia:

http://www.efunda.com/processes/rapid_prototyping/intro.cfm

Some info here.

It's a way of creating 3 dimensional objects by laying down thin layers of some sort of plastic of photimageable polymer (something that starts as a liquid but turns to solid when you shine a light on it).

It allows you to make all sorts of objects using one machine, all you need is a 3 dimensional representation of the the thing you want to make.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Jimbo W on 06 May 2013
In reply to dissonance:

If I'm going to be setting up a NAS storage system at home, which I am, is this something I should be worrying about?! Should I get something other than my Sky router? I think ours is set up with WPA-PSK?!
Lord_ash2000 - on 06 May 2013
In reply to DancingOnRock: As far as downloading goes, people can cover there tracks but they wouldn't really have to. A 3D printing file is just a file filled with plotting data for a 3D printer. It's just data, they wouldn't be able to tell part it's going to print off unless they got the file themselves , and besides if someone puts the file online and 500,000 people download it all across the country in the first 24 hours what are they going to do, arrest everyone? Didn't work very well with films or music or software
Hardonicus - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Trangia: Printing, but in 3d.
purplemonkeyelephant - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

I'm much more concerned about someone stabbing me in the liver today than the possibility of someone shooting me with a homemade plastic gun in 5 years
Eric9Points - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Trangia:

Here's a video as well: http://www.nietfeld.com/en/news/video-clip-about-rapid-prototyping/26-137.html

I'm afraid it's in German. Seems difficult to get hold of a nice simple explanation.
cap'nChino - on 06 May 2013
In reply to rocky57:
> (In reply to Jimbo W)
> ...is there anything for us to be concerned about?
> [...]
>
> For the moment I'm just going to be concerned about the cost of the cartridges. Most printer manufactures, usually see this as a way to literally print money.

You're not far wrong. Current major manufacturers have their machines locked in to the resin that they supply.
Tom V - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Eric9Points:
Does it only print the external surface? If so, for instance, a referee's whistle is a non starter?
Dauphin - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Tom V:


Print the refs whistle with the pea inside it.

D
itsThere on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W: If you have the time you can make your own gun anyway. This isnt the first 3d-printed, the others had cracking problems. Plus it will be made by idiots who dont have the know how to make a good gun. It took these guys a year with lots of funding.

I would be concerned by the quite guy in the corner with an arduino or anything similar.
Tom V - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Dauphin:
Is the pea loose?
itsThere on 06 May 2013
In reply to Tom V: Yes but print it in two bits, watch this http://chargebikes.com/products/freezer-ti-with-3d-dropouts/
Dauphin - on 06 May 2013
In reply to itsThere:

You mean one of these dropping in on you?

http://diydrones.com/

He-he. More terrifying garage made shit to worry about.

D
Cameron94 on 06 May 2013
In reply to BigBrother:
> (In reply to Jimbo W) Unless you can print your own bullets it isn't really much use.

It's really not that hard to get hold of them now a days, plenty of kids in city's will know someone that can get hold of them even if you don't hang around with that sort.

It's a worrying fact.

thepeaks - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W: So instead of photocopying ones tackle at the xmas party it will now be possible to make a 3d model ?
dissonance - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

> If I'm going to be setting up a NAS storage system at home, which I am, is this something I should be worrying about?! Should I get something other than my Sky router? I think ours is set up with WPA-PSK?!

WPA with a decent length key is secure enough.
Its only WEP which has been completely compromised but some idiot isps still ship it.
Sir Chasm - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Cameron94: Do you think getting bullets is easier than getting hold of a gun?
wiwwim - on 06 May 2013
In reply to thepeaks: as long as it's firing blanks.....
dissonance - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Sir Chasm:
> (In reply to Cameron94) Do you think getting bullets is easier than getting hold of a gun?

think this is one of those cases where what terminology is being used needs clarified.
a bullet would be easy enough to make.
A cartridge not so much.
Sir Chasm - on 06 May 2013
In reply to dissonance: The whole thing, y'know, something to make it lethal, cartridge case, firing cap, gunpowder, bullet.
ice.solo - on 06 May 2013
In reply to Jimbo W:

buy the printer and all the plastic, print it out, sand it down, fit it together, accept the inaccuracies and risk if self-injury and that it looks like stupid and has only one or two shots in it, certainly as singles.

or go down the street and buy the real thing either legally from a shop or illegally from a hoodlum.

this will have to evolve a fair bit before it becomes attractive to anyone more than sociopathic nerds, tho sadly they seem to fit the profile of many who blow away kids iin schoolrooms....
puppythedog on 06 May 2013
In reply to ice.solo: You say that Iceman but have you seen 'In the line of Fire'? :-)

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