/ Peglers Expedition Advisors and suppliers - Closes Down

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matthill1066 - on 13 May 2013
Hi
Does anybody have any information on Peglers?
I am awaiting a refund and their website is down and phones ring off.
Have they gone bust?
cheers
Matt

UKC Title Edit - see message lower on this thread
FrJ on 13 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066:

I hope not. I've always found them both good and very fair. I would think if there was a problem that they would try to put a note on the website.
mypyrex - on 13 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066: Website says "Down for Maintenance"
Doghouse - on 13 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066:

I woudl be very surprised too, generally found them to be excellent with a good reputation.
matthill1066 - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Doghouse: yeah me to, can understand that every website needs updating but the fact that no one answers the phone is a little unnerving.
Nick Russell on 13 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066:

Another vote of confidence, I had a pretty good experience with them about a year ago (despite being a pretty awkward customer!). Just hang in there and I'm sure Dave will get back to you.
LastBoyScout on 13 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066:

They've been around for years and have about 4 shops in Arundel last I went in any of them.

Hope they haven't gone bust - they were great and I've bought loads of stuff from them in the past.
Irk the Purist - on 13 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066:

Have you tried calling all of the shops?

As sad as it would be, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd gone under. Local shops are struggling more and more.
Neil Williams - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Eric the Red:

They seem to have dropped their Twitter back to the basics and deleted their FB page. So it looks bad :(

Neil
CurlyStevo - on 13 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066:
Their stock has gone right down hill in resent years, I've given up going there for specialist kit - the small Brighton Cotswold is better!
Big Lee - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Neil Williams:

That would be a shame. They generally seemed the place to go when you needed something a bit unusual. The Pegler ice trips also looked good, although I never signed up for any.
crustypunkuk - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Big Lee: I ordered stuff from them at the start of the month. It hasn't arrived yet, and i've had no reply to emails or answers on the phone. I was a little alarmed to see the website under maintenance notice on their site, but hopefully i'm over reacting. I have used them before, and they were great, which makes the shoddy service this time a little more annoying.
Fortunately i paid by card, so should be ok if the worst has happened.
Neil Williams - on 13 May 2013
In reply to crustypunkuk:

I have known them be a bit slow and uncommunicative before, I ordered some stuff and it took them a while to get it in, but they didn't update me on progress unless I spent some time hassling them to get back to me. However this looks a bit different.

Neil
JSTaylor - on 13 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066:

Just logged on to post a similar question re Peglers - have being trying to get a hold of them as I pre-ordered an item in February and still waiting. Not reply to emails, all their phones ringing out...

Not looking good! Hope I used a credit card and not my Maestro.

I fear the worst here...
Dave B on 13 May 2013
In reply to JSTaylor:

From the twittersphere...

"pallantarundel (Pallant of Arundel)

Let Agreed sign gone up this morning on Peglers old shop on Arundel High Street....wonder who is going in there???

9:03 AM May 9th via Twitter for iPhone
http://twitter.com/pallantarundel/status/332405330455695360"

They had several shops though, so .ot conclusive
rockrat - on 13 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066: It took a while for me to get a refund from them. They use World Pay for their online transactions I think and they put the delay down to them when I queried why the funds hadn't been credited to my account after a couple of days.

On a side note the customer service I recieved from Peglars was shocking. The product didn't arrive. We phoned a week later and was told they don't stock the item anymore, but we only found this out after two weeks of phoning.
matthill1066 - on 13 May 2013
In reply to rockrat: I spoke to them last week, they agreed to refund me through Worldpay but since then the whole thing has gone quiet. Can't access the website and no answer on the phones. If they have gone to the wall surely the website should state that! Not keep people waiting without the hope of getting what they ordered!
JSTaylor - on 13 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066:
One would hope so, but all the signs suggest they have stopped trading. No website, no reply to emails, phones ringing out...

For those of us who, it would appear, have lost money then it is a case of raising a dispute via our credit card companies. If they have gone bust then some poor souls have lost their jobs and will have no such fallback.



matthill1066 - on 13 May 2013
In reply to JSTaylor: I totally agree! I didn't chase this up sooner as I was aware they were a family business and not a multinational. That was the reason I ordered with them in the first place. And whilst I feel for those who may have lost their jobs, I don't have endless pots of cash! I've saved for 2years to get the kit I ordered! So everybody loses!
JSTaylor - on 13 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066:
Assuming you paid with a credit card you should get your money back... Eventually!
ads.ukclimbing.com
Damo on 14 May 2013
In reply to CurlyStevo:
> (In reply to matthill1066)
> Their stock has gone right down hill in resent years, I've given up going there for specialist kit ...

Whilst I don't wish them badly on a personal level, I would not be surprised if they did actually go under - hopefully they can come back in a different form? I always found their *available* range limited and their 'specialist' expedition reputation unwarranted. Maybe 15 years ago they were a good option but I think they got overtaken by the range and value of internet shopping. If it wasn't for the UK's VAT and protective import duties they would have gone under years ago I'd say.

Their range wasn't up to it and they were overpriced. I noticed in more recent times this seemed to get even worse. The only times I had direct dealings with them they were out of stock and expensive and they gave wrong advice to a colleague. They were more like middle-men than an actual source, and wanted to charge for being that. Too late.

I'm not saying they were terrible, I just personally never found them anywhere near as good as UKC Groupthink Co-Operative made them out to be.

I'd always put them in the category of "Things UKCers Like Because They Like Because They're British And A Bit Old Fashioned Because They're Old And Not Fancy And We Like That Because Others On Here Like That". See also Aiguille packs, PHD, Buffalo shirts, Trangia stoves, Ron Hill pants. None of these things are terrible (actually, no, Ron Hills are terrible) but the reasoning behind their endorsement is often so irrational it overlooks deficiencies and promotes them beyond their worth.
In reply to Damo:

> I'd always put them in the category of "Things UKCers Like Because They Like Because They're British And A Bit Old Fashioned Because They're Old And Not Fancy And We Like That Because Others On Here Like That". See also Aiguille packs, PHD, Buffalo shirts, Trangia stoves, Ron Hill pants.

You might be being a bit hard here - although not on Ron Hills, they were never right in any sense. I think lots of us are vaguely aware of top quality brands from other countries, but they are distributed in the UK so people can't see them and maybe buy them. Also most countries seem to have some affinity for their own brands - maybe some nationalism, but also the feeling that brand X knows "our mountains and their conditions". Most of the Norwegians I saw last week were wearing Norrona for example.

And I thought only scouts and the like liked Trangias because they make setting yourself/the surroundings on fire slightly harder for your average gormless teenager?
TRip - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Damo:

>
> I'd always put them in the category of "Things UKCers Like Because They Like Because They're British And A Bit Old Fashioned Because They're Old And Not Fancy And We Like That Because Others On Here Like That". See also Aiguille packs, PHD, Buffalo shirts, Trangia stoves, Ron Hill pants. None of these things are terrible (actually, no, Ron Hills are terrible) but the reasoning behind their endorsement is often so irrational it overlooks deficiencies and promotes them beyond their worth.

You could say the same about Americans with they're stupidly expensive Cilo Gear packs and poorly fitting, badly made and vastly over rated Patagonia clothing... And if you knew enough about gear write a similar list for everything outdoor nation in the world.

What have you got against Aiguille out of interest? I like them - but you knew that already. I noticed on another thread that you aren't a fan.

Damo on 14 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:

Ha! Thought that would get a reaction :-)

Toby - yes, I am being a bit hard.

Tom - I agree with you about Patagonia. Aiguille? Mainly just got some sullen take-it-or-leave-it customer service for an enquiry (and re-enquiry due to their incomplete initial response) which I've found with a lot of small, traditional, manufacturers, though not just in the outdoor industry, tbf.

Of course there are some rubbish over fancy, too weak modern packs around, but pack designs moved on for a reason, in some cases, and just being basic doesn't make something good. Packs need to fit properly and a blanket recommendation of a brand like that, ignoring individual fit, is just silly. They fit you? Great. Someone else? Maybe not. I've tried plenty of (otherwise) good packs that just don't fit me so I don't buy them and I would not blindly recommend them to anyone. I'd recommend the person do their research and find the product that is the best for the job and fits them properly. That could be any brand - regardless of how fancy or unfancy it is, where it is made, how much it costs or what it looks like.

Of course other countries have their national biases - Kiwis love their heavy and expensive Cactus gear, Canadians love their cheap MEC, Argentines their boring Ansilta, France their poncey LaFuma, Italy their garish Montura, Russia their outdated Bask, Australians their... (we've sold out and just import anything). But it's the repetitively chirpy ('top bit of kit') and quaint Luddism ('does what it says on the tin') of the UKC fan base I find most enjoyable.
Irk the Purist - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Damo:

Being local I really hope the rumours aren't true, but more because I look back with fondness at Peglers than because it was my favourite shop. But I think you're being unfair. When I got my first hiking boots (15 years ago) they were THE place to go in the South East. They took old boots in and resold them second hand to kids/scouts for next to nothing. The price seemed to depend on what you could afford rather than anything else and the advice was second to none. It could be that the reputation has gone down of late but it exists because they were top quality, not because of UKC groupthink.

Also, I love Ron hills, simple, cheap and do the job. My scouts pick out the trangias over the pocket rockets in the stores every day of the week (I admit that's weird) and my Buffalo got worn til it died.

If things aren't settled by the weekend I'll try and do a drive by.


BruceM - on 14 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066:

This doesn't sound very good.

I too am awaiting delivery of something ordered 3 weeks ago. Wasn't concerned until now as it took a similar time for similar product from them end of last year. But these messages all point to bad news.

It would be nice to know the truth. And how to get your money back.
CurlyStevo - on 14 May 2013
In reply to JSTaylor:
"For those of us who, it would appear, have lost money then it is a case of raising a dispute via our credit card companies. If they have gone bust then some poor souls have lost their jobs and will have no such fallback."

I assume this won't work if you paid by debit card.
JSTaylor - on 14 May 2013
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Correct. Only applies to credit cards and a minimum spend of 100.00. But see this for more detail/explanation: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases
Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Visa debit, you may be OK as Visa voluntarily offer similar protection on debit as credit cards. Contact your bank.

Maestro, indeed not, though almost no UK debit cards are Maestro now, the UK is almost entirely a Visa "closed shop" card-wise.

Neil
In reply to all:

We have just received this message:

Peglers has been forced to cease trading by a petition to bankruptcy by the crown / HMRC effective 10/05/2013.

The Partners have asked us to post this as a means of contacting the climbing community they've been part of for the last 25 years.

We are sorry to be gone, pleased to have made many friends across the shop counter and to have climbed with some of you on both rock and ice over the last 30 Peglers Ice Fests.

For anyone that has goods paid for but not delivered please reclaim the money through your card provider or if that is not possible please write to :

The Administrator
Peglers Mountain Shop
69 Tarrant Street
ARUNDEL
West Sussex<
BN18 9DN
Thank you and take care.

Dave and Richard
In reply to Damo: of course in my post above I should have written "...aren't distributed..." not "are", but I guess people saw what I meant!

Sad that the shop has folded because at one point at least Peglers really did stock stuff that was hard to find in many other shops. I bought one of the first Crux packs from there maybe 10 or 11 years back and it was one of the few places selling them at the time. Commercial situations change and all that but bad for the people losing their jobs/business still.
Ciderslider - on 14 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066: Sad news indeed :-(
Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Eric the Red:

I like Trangias (even more so now I've just added a gas adapter) because they're all-in-one and perform brilliantly in wind. And they're not British, they're Swedish! (I think)

Neil
Tom Last - on 14 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066:

Bad news, was a good shop.
nniff - on 14 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066:

That's really awful - one of the best shops around.

:o(
maybe_si - on 14 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066:

This is such sad news, Davey P is a true hero!

I blame 'Go Outdoors' tossers!
iksander on 14 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066: Very sad news, Dave P is a good bloke.
Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to maybe_si:

Given why they were wound up, time in these hard times for more flexibility from HMRC? I guess it was the inability to pay a tax bill of some sort.

If the business closes, after all, HMRC gets no tax...

Neil
Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to maybe_si:

Go Outdoors and Cotswold all started somewhere - as single shops. The shame is that those who don't wish to expand and just trade in one town end up losing.

Neil
Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Eric the Red:

I don't blame them for not choosing Pocket Rockets. On-top-of-cylinder gas stoves are a pain in the backside - poor wind shielding, unstable and useless in the cold.

If I were buying a non-Trangia gas stove, it'd without doubt be a separate-cylinder "spider" type one.

Neil
ads.ukclimbing.com
CurlyStevo - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Neil Williams:
The pocket rockets are bomb proof and super light they definately have their place IMO.

I also have one of these http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Cooking-Equipment/Gas-Stoves/EXPRESS-SPIDER-PRM-EXSPIDER#.UZIY...

Which I am not nearly as happy with as the jet is constantly blocking up!
CurlyStevo - on 14 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:
Yes it is sad for all the people that lost their jobs, they may well need to relocate if they want to stay in the same industry.
Irk the Purist - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Sad times. There won't be any shops left soon? Still, that will be three more overpriced 'vintage' home decoration shops in Arundel. Or maybe two more and an estate agent.
Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Eric the Red:

Which will continue until Councils realise that not having free parking in town centres is destroying them (actually, pretty much *has* destroyed them).

Neil
Tyler - on 14 May 2013
In reply to maybe_si:

> I blame 'Go Outdoors' tossers!

Then you'd be wrong, the problem lies with tossers like us who shop on the internet becuase we can find the cheapest price in a matter of seconds. A/ny outdoor retailer who doesn't do most of their business online is going to struggle becuase clibers tend not to spend Saturday afternoon's shopping so will always buy their kit at the most convenient location and usually that'll online.
Gordonbp - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
> (In reply to all)
>
> We have just received this message:
>
> Peglers has been forced to cease trading by a petition to bankruptcy by the crown / HMRC effective 10/05/2013.

Bloody HMRC cause more bankruptcies than anyone else. They have powers that are FAR too draconian and they use them every time.
I wish in my time as a Credit Controller for several small companies I could have had the same powers to force debtors to pay...
LastBoyScout on 14 May 2013
In reply to Neil Williams:
>
> Which will continue until Councils realise that not having free parking in town centres is destroying them (actually, pretty much *has* destroyed them).

It is so noticable that all the previously "free for an hour/2 hour 8-6 and all day Sunday" roadside parking spaces in Reading are virtually empty since the council started charging 50p/20mins from 8-8pm every day!

And a shame Peglers has gone under - I bought a lot of things in their shops in the days when we used to pass through Arundel to visit my grandparents.
The New NickB - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Neil Williams:
> (In reply to Eric the Red)
>
> Which will continue until Councils realise that not having free parking in town centres is destroying them (actually, pretty much *has* destroyed them).
>
> Neil

In a lot of towns free parking is filled up at 7-8am and not vacated until 6-7pm. Careful management of parking is the answer, which may include a short free period.
Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to LastBoyScout:

Quite. There are only two answers to this.

1. Plentiful, free parking in town centres, e.g. multistoreys and underground car parks.

2. A legal requirement for chargeable parking at out of town shopping centres.

(2) will just cause online shopping, so if we want retail in our town centres (1) is necessary.

Neil
Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to The New NickB:

So have a load of spaces which are max 2-3 hours. (3 is better, 2 is not quite enough). And ensure that companies provide enough parking for employees in underground car parks at new office developments.

The stick doesn't work in the way it was intended, all it's done is moved businesses out of town centres, not moved people onto public transport.

Neil
Irk the Purist - on 14 May 2013
In reply to The New NickB:

I don't think this should be a car parking thread. There is plenty of parking in Arundel as the castle makes it a tourist hot spot and it's not that unreasonable. (The castle on the other hand is a rip off)

I'm not sure people drive to Arundel for a day shopping, they go to the castle and pick up some nick nacks from the tat shops whilst there. It was always an odd place for an outdoor shop.

Sad times for the Pegler family. Maybe they'll come back with renewed vigour. Sadly, for the people owed money, HMRC have first dibs.



Damo on 14 May 2013
In reply to Tyler:

No shop can compete with the internet for range and price and information.

Shops have the advantage of trying things on, feeling how things are, local advice. They rely on customers trading choice for certainty.

This is not enough to save non-chain outdoor stores in High Streets though.

All businesses need volume. For a shop to stock range and offer value they need customers in the door and the only places in the UK you will get that to an economic extent are:
1. London - where affluent, time-poor people will come in and spend a lot for a particular trip, or are tourists, and where there is simply a potentially high volume of customers nearby, and
2. Actual outdoor/mountain destinations, e.g. Hathersage, Keswick, Fort William etc. where people pick up things they need on the way or shop on a rainy day, who may also pay less rent than a London shop.

Places like Arundel are a bit neither here nor there. In the past they may have had sufficient volume of traffic from those venturing nearby, plus mail/web order, but that volume has been diluted by the internet and city shops. The remainder is not enough.
Simon Caldwell - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Damo:
> No shop can compete with the internet for range and price and information.

On the other hand, the internet makes it much easier to buy from non-local shops. I bought things from Peglers more than once, despite never having been to Arundel and living several hundred miles away.
Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Toreador:

Indeed.

Interestingly, the long-established and in some ways similar "Outdoor Shop", previously in Stony Stratford (a small town on the edge of Milton Keynes) has relocated itself to a MK industrial estate to consolidate its business onto one site (its main business is online sales, not the shop). Perhaps Peglers hit problems because of its large number of town centre shops?

Neil
CurlyStevo - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Tyler:
> (In reply to maybe_si)
>
> [...]
>
> Then you'd be wrong, the problem lies with tossers like us who shop on the internet becuase we can find the cheapest price in a matter of seconds. A/ny outdoor retailer who doesn't do most of their business online is going to struggle becuase clibers tend not to spend Saturday afternoon's shopping so will always buy their kit at the most convenient location and usually that'll online.

Agreed, I think the only ways these indi shops can compete now is to fundementally sell stuff online at the right price and make their money there, the store is then just a flagship for the brand. Pegglers had it the other way around I reckon.
CurlyStevo - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Neil Williams:
"Perhaps Peglers hit problems because of its large number of town centre shops?"

I'm sure that couldn't have helped.
davidbeynon - on 14 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:
> (In reply to Damo)
>
> [...]
>
> And I thought only scouts and the like liked Trangias because they make setting yourself/the surroundings on fire slightly harder for your average gormless teenager?

I like trangias because they are foolproof, I can do real cooking on them and and I can leave them unattended in the porch of my tent without burning it down. Petrol is more fun though.
The New NickB - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Neil Williams:

The answer isn't loading extra costs on businesses, which is what your proposals would do. Anyway, not really the point. Living in the North West I have never been to Peglers, but it is always a shame when a specialist business like that goes out of business.
Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to The New NickB:

"The answer isn't loading extra costs on businesses, which is what your proposals would do"

The answer also isn't getting so car-unfriendly that no-one wants to shop in town centres, which is what's happened except in larger towns.

What's your proposal?

Neil
woolsack - on 14 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066: I can't for the life of me understand why an outdoor retailer would have 4 shops in Arundel of all places
ads.ukclimbing.com
Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to woolsack:

It's quite an old town, isn't it? So I guess they expanded by adding more shops for more departments, a bit like (similarly failed[1]) Rapid Hardware in Liverpool.

[1] For a slightly different reason - for hardware/DIY car/van access is vital. That is one type of shop that, except small stuff, will never work in town centres however much free parking is available.

Neil
woolsack - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Neil Williams: Yes, probably one was the tweed department, one for the ventile and oilskins and another for the oatcakes and kendal mint cake etc
owlart - on 14 May 2013
In reply to woolsack: Arundel is an old town with lots of small shopfronts, so they had each 'department' in a seperate shop, "Peglars on the hill", "Peglars round the corner", "Peglars down the hill" etc.. Sad to see them go, I bought my first climbing shoes, belay device and harness from them.
owlart - on 14 May 2013
In reply to woolsack:
> (In reply to Neil Williams) Yes, probably one was the tweed department, one for the ventile and oilskins and another for the oatcakes and kendal mint cake etc

I assume from that comment that you've never visited any of their shops then? They carried similar stock to most other outdoor shops, but I expect the massive overhead of multiple premises (and I can't imagine rents are cheap in Arundel either), must have been crippling.
Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to owlart:

Must admit I liked the quirkiness of the named shops. Though I never shopped there in person, just online.

Neil
Antigua - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Tyler:
> (In reply to maybe_si)
>
> [...] I'd blame the GoOutdoors Tossers
>
> Then you'd be wrong, the problem lies with tossers like us who shop on the internet becuase we can find the cheapest price in a matter of seconds.

Then I'd say you'd be wrong. The internet should be the great lever. I've ordered things thinking its been from a large company only to find out that its a one man band operating out of the spare bedroom. Having a small amount of experience of local small shop economics I'd say the problems are 2 fold
1) Distributors hate locals. Why have 3000 mom and pop accounts when you can have 5 mega-retailers. This show itself in higher prices, no sale or return, forward news of new products etc.

2) What I call the John Lewis syndrome or "GoOutdoors Tossers" above. Wander around all the majors and pretty much everything is sold at full RRP. So why can't a local compete? A famous person (who???) once said "For a company [John Lewis] to be matching everyone else's cheapest price they're surprisingly expensive" What in fact they're doing is matching the price of independents most of the time which for a local can be devastating. GoOutdoors sticks the boot in by taking an extra 10% off. Add the fact that people will say they like locals what they really mean is that they like the idea of locals but when it comes to money off they go to the chain.
owlart - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Neil Williams:
> Must admit I liked the quirkiness of the named shops. Though I never shopped there in person, just online.

The naming became much more obvious if you visited them, they really were on the hill, round the corner and down the hill.

I shall miss them when I visit Arundel, it will leave quite a hole in Arundel's shopping streets.
martinph78 on 14 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066: Are we forgetting about the likes of MFI, Woolworths, Comet, JJB, etc? All gone now.

It's easy to start passing the blame, but Peglars were a small company with a limited market in a tough economic climate. The above were huge companies with a massive market, yet they couldn't survive either.



Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Martin1978:

If anything it's harder for a larger company to adapt - though some are trying, e.g. PC World with the "order online, pick up in store" approach. It was perhaps easier for The Outdoor Shop (for example) to consolidate its shop and online ordering into one set of premises.

Neil
Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Martin1978:

As for Woolies, I think it had just lost its way. It still exists - near enough - in another shop that also begins with a W - Wilkinson's - which is almost identical in principle except that it doesn't do clothing. And Ikea is almost identical in concept to MFI - it just does it better!

Neil
Tyler - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Antigua:

> Then I'd say you'd be wrong

Nothing you've said disagrees with my post! You've just chosen a long winded way of say that consumers have stopped going to small shops because they can get stuff cheaper elsewhere. My main point was that the fault for this lies not with the large retailers like Go Outdoors giving us this but with us climbers who chose to shop there. Your last sentence says as much:

Add the fact that people will say they like locals what they really mean is that they like the idea of locals but when it comes to money off they go to the chain.

I don't disagree with anything you've written I'm just puzzled why you say I am wrong and then go on to repeat my argument
Antigua - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Tyler:
> (In reply to Antigua)
>
> [...]
> I'm just puzzled why you say I am wrong and then go on to repeat my argument

I'm saying that if large retailers like GoOutdoors stopped there predatory price matching then people wouldn't find large chains cheaper. Its part of the problem.
Neil Williams - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Antigua:

If you don't like it, don't shop there. If enough people didn't, *they* would fail.

Personally I like Go Outdoors and Cotswold because they hold (in their large stores) a wider range of stock particularly in larger sizes. I'm fed up of going into "helpful smaller retailers" who claim there's no demand for size 13 boots, say.

Neil
sarahjk - on 14 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066:

Unbelievably saddened at this news. I have fond memories of sitting in the living room of their house, pre-shop, and buying my first down sleeping bags and jacket for my first trip to Nepal in '89. Still using the bags and jacket now! Loved to go to the house, they always got the snakes out to play with, and then later visiting the shops.

Sincerely hope the family and employees are all ok, and sorry to people who may loose from this.

Sad day.
Jasonic - on 15 May 2013
In reply to matthill1066: RIP Peglers, always helpful when I visited.
DarrenH - on 17 May 2013
In reply to sarahkeast:

This is very sad news. Definitely a sign of the times - Local outdoor shops going the way of the green grocer. Good bunch of guys at Peglers. I hope there's some light at the end of this particular tunnel.

Didn't a similar thing happen with Mountain Intelligence in Leeds? Really good shop but a less than viable business model.
DarrenH - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Antigua:

I don't there's a simple fix to that particular problem.

It's called economy of scale. Either you have it, or your don't. It takes a very special (poor) local business to compete with big national players on price, although many try and some even succeed.

Tyler's right, the problem is with where people choose to spend their money.
DarrenH - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Antigua:

I don't think there's a simple fix to that particular problem.

It's called economy of scale. Either you have it, or your don't. It takes a very special (poor) local business to compete with big national players on price, although many try and some even succeed.

Tyler's right, the problem is with where people choose to spend their money.
Jim Hamilton - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Neil Williams:
>
> Personally I like Go Outdoors and Cotswold because they hold (in their large stores) a wider range of stock particularly in larger sizes. I'm fed up of going into "helpful smaller retailers" who claim there's no demand for size 13 boots, say.
>

but Cotswold and alike don't stock 1/2 sizes in say La Sportiva, or their full technical range.

You could ring up Dave P, and he would get you your LS Trango Extreme GTI in a 47 1/2, no problems, and with a good discount.

It's a real shame they've closed down.
Antigua - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Neil Williams:
> (In reply to Antigua)
>
> If you don't like it, don't shop there. If enough people didn't, *they* would fail.
>
> Personally I like Go Outdoors and Cotswold because they hold (in their large stores) a wider range of stock particularly in larger sizes. I'm fed up of going into "helpful smaller retailers" who claim there's no demand for size 13 boots, say.

I don't shop at Go mainly because theres no outlet around here. On the couple of occasions I have been I agree its a football field full of high through put gear but the advice and quality of answers to questions I've asked has been p1ss poor. Like no doubt many people on this forum I qualify for the BMC discount so the Go discount is academic. My last purchase was at The Climbers Shop in Ambleside were I was able to get advice that I could trust and a number of purchase options.

Maybe I could have got Go to match the price I paid and then knocked off a further 10% but Go didn't stock what I purchased and I felt the small additional cost to be well worth added service I got.
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Antigua - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Jim Hamilton:
> (In reply to Neil Williams)
> [...]
>
> but Cotswold and alike don't stock 1/2 sizes in say La Sportiva, or their full technical range.
>

Exactly they cheery pick the most profitable lines. Maybe thats the leverage that a local indy could use. Theres lot of great gear out there thats not up to the sales required for a chain so add good service and after sales and it might be a good living for a local indy.
Timmd on 17 May 2013
In reply to Damo:
> (In reply to CurlyStevo)
> [...]

> I'd always put them in the category of "Things UKCers Like Because They Like Because They're British And A Bit Old Fashioned Because They're Old And Not Fancy And We Like That Because Others On Here Like That". See also Aiguille packs, PHD, Buffalo shirts, Trangia stoves, Ron Hill pants. None of these things are terrible (actually, no, Ron Hills are terrible) but the reasoning behind their endorsement is often so irrational it overlooks deficiencies and promotes them beyond their worth.

I'm not sure if you can call PHD old fashioned when they've won a design award for one of their sleeping bags and seem to keep trying to progress (and succeeding?) in making lightweight gear.

Timmd on 17 May 2013
In reply to Damo: The PHD Minnimus sleeping bag which weighs 900 grams and have a temperature limit/guide of -16, seems quite modern in specs to me?

http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info.php?cat=58&products_id=33

Defend what you've said about PHD. (:-))
Asian Climber - on 18 May 2013
Just found the thread. That will be why they are not answering the phone then. I need some boots for Ama Dablam in October so I arranged a trip to the UK in March (I currently live in Singapore) mainly to buy some boots, as I don't believe that internet purchases for boots is a good idea. Peglers assured me that the boots I ordered would be delivered prior to my visit but when I got back to the UK they told me they didn't have them in stock. So a wasted international flight. That was a couple of months ago and I agreed that the boots could be posted instead. So far nothing has arrived and no doubt nothing will now so 400 quid down and no boots and no-where to buy them where I live.

Obviously a shame about the closure and the demise of another family business but I can't vouch that I had great service from them.

In other news, If anyone has a pair of Boreal G1 Lite size 12 or knows where I can get them I would be grateful to know.
Cambridge-Climber - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Tyler:

> Then you'd be wrong, the problem lies with tossers like us who shop on the internet becuase we can find the cheapest price in a matter of seconds. A/ny outdoor retailer who doesn't do most of their business online is going to struggle becuase clibers tend not to spend Saturday afternoon's shopping so will always buy their kit at the most convenient location and usually that'll online.

Spot on. I replied to a thread 18 months ago when someone was looking for ice screws and someone else piped up with the Outdoor shop have them at (about) 20% off, so get Go Outdoors to price match it and you'll save another 10% on that making a total of 28% off. I said an attitude like that will see off the independents. Why not buy from the guy offering the best deal rather than exploiting Tes-Go and their need to buy business!!

Sorry to see Peglers go, bought from them over the phone in pre-internet days. It was a helpful shop!

Cambridge-Climber - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Jim Hamilton:

> You could ring up Dave P, and he would get you your LS Trango Extreme GTI in a 47 1/2, no problems, and with a good discount.


Perhaps that's the real problem, the item you've said that he would get for you at a good discount is a specialist, niche product. The chains shift a huge amount of high margin product which is sold as a lifestyle product and they get much bigger Volume discounts than any independent ever would (imagine the buying power of Tes-Go Outdoors & Cotswold compared to Peglers) If they're not paying at least half of the RRP on stuff like Rab & TNF then their buyers need replacing. Footwear on the other hand your retailer will be luck to be making 30% net, so you get a BMC discount and take a third of their margin. A good retailer will be carrying 10-20 models of rock shoe in a range of sizes from 4-14 (a really good one will have the half sizes as well) that's a massive investment to be able to offer a full service and only make 20-30 per unit.

It's why the chains keep it simple, just enough to fleece the newbies and gain some credibility as an "outdoor" shop while they sell the dream to overweight 4x4 drivers who regard a walk around Cwm Idwal as "mountaineering".

The next biggest threat to independents who are doing well on line will be increased shipping costs as more product is returned by people who took the p*ss trying it on instore and then ordered from another online retailer.

We will get the shops we use, Tes-Go & Cotswold will become our only options unless we recognise that they are taking the volume sales & the profitable sectors.

Cambridge-Climber - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Neil Williams:

> And Ikea is almost identical in concept to MFI - it just does it better!

But was much more "cool" people drove for hours past several MFI to get to Ikea to buy the same flatpack bookcase just with a cooler name like Toss or Arsefaart.

The power of marketing!

Cambridge-Climber - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Antigua:

> I'm saying that if large retailers like GoOutdoors stopped there predatory price matching then people wouldn't find large chains cheaper. Its part of the problem.

I went in to a Go Outdoors and asked them about their price match, they don't get taken up on it that often according to the manager I spoke to. Apparently the 8' high sign lulls people into believing that they're getting the best deal out there. A bit like supermarkets did in the 70's
Neil Williams - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Cambridge-Climber:

But remember that Cotswold and Go Outdoors started as independents. Indeed, in 1997 when I first shopped there (Oxford Rd, Manchester) they only had 4 stores. And of course T.E. Stockwell's stores started somewhere as well!

At what point do chains become evil?

Neil
Antigua - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Cambridge-Climber:

You speak a lot of sense in your posts above.

As per some previous posts I'm looking to get an ABC watch. The Fenix is front runner. Doing research on Google by default shows me offers. Best price I can find is from a small indy chain. I called Go and they confirmed they'd match the price and then knock off an additional 10%.

Now thats a powerful offer especially in these economic times which Go can cross subsidise against the warehouse full of other things it sells. For the small indy chain selling those high cost Fenix watches could be the only way to generate the cash flow to pay the Tax man or other bills. Lets be honest here most people do only shop on price.

Will Go shed any tears that Peglers or any other competition has been driven out of business? No I don't know what the answer is but I do know that a world with only Go and a couple of other huge chains isn't it.

Cambridge-Climber - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Neil Williams:

> At what point do chains become evil?


When they get bought out by Hedge funds and multi-nationals, they lose their way and become just another box shifter.

The first Tes-Go store I came across was in Hathersage, they took over the old grocery opposite Outside and sold lot's of indifferent quality clothing. It also deprived me of their awesome vegetarian Chili pasties, they should be reviled for that alone.

Cotswold had at least 5 stores that I know of by '97, South Cerney, Manchester, Shepherds Bush, Reading & Betws y Coed. Since then they've expanded aggressively to fill the voide left by the demise of other chains YHA, Field & Trek, Karrimor, Blacks, Millets.
deepsoup - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Neil Williams:
> At what point do chains become evil?

On the subject of corporate evil, here's an interesting read:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/19/david-mitchell-amazon-tax-artwork
Cambridge-Climber - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Antigua:

> Now thats a powerful offer especially in these economic times which Go can cross subsidise against the warehouse full of other things it sells. For the small indy chain selling those high cost Fenix watches could be the only way to generate the cash flow to pay the Tax man or other bills. Lets be honest here most people do only shop on price.


Tes-Go will sell at a loss. I know this through a friend who is an independent and put a couple of products on his site at a silly price then asked me to do a "secret shopper" and ask for the price match. As you say they can cross subsidise.

I have less contempt for Cotswold, they try to have some knowledgable staff in each store.

Neil Williams - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Cambridge-Climber:

I'm not clear that Go Outdoors isn't still owned by its founders. A quick Google suggests they were at least until 2011.

They have some things going for them. "You're the third person we've told today, there is no demand for size 13 boots" is one thing they do not say. That attitude is still taken by a lot of independents.

Neil
Antigua - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Neil Williams:
> (In reply to Cambridge-Climber)
>
> I'm not clear that Go Outdoors isn't still owned by its founders.

Agreed I think its is still run by its founders but with substantial outside funding from the likes of 3i. Turnover was in excess of 40 million so doesn't quite qualify in the mom and pop outdoors shop category
TRip - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Timmd:
> (In reply to Damo)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> I'm not sure if you can call PHD old fashioned when they've won a design award for one of their sleeping bags

They won that design award ten or more years ago so it's hardly current.

PHD bags aren't bad, per say, but they're are nowhere near as good as their marketing and reputation would have you believe. I own two by the way.

Whilst they do use top quality down the designs and fabrics they use are pretty dated. Compare the pattern, design and fabrics of the new range of ME bags with a PHD bag and the ME bag will win hands down. There is more to making a good sleeping bag than the down you put into it. The down ME are now using isn't far behind either.

I would still consider PHD for a specialist sleeping bag or down suit, but for more general down gear there are much better and often cheaper options elsewhere.

HTH
spilla - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Sad day. Have spent many an hour (and a pound) in Peglers.
Good luck guys with the future...
Sketchy - on 20 May 2013
Having worked at Peglers for the best part of 5 years finishing up at the end of December I'm not surprised they've gone under from experience of the way things were run and dealt with, although it is always a shame when an independent outdoor retailer runs into trouble. I will have to go over an see for myself as it was hard enough seeing the big high street store closed down. Maybe I'll pass Dave or Rich while I'm looking around and get the final word from them.
Antigua - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Sketchy:
> I'm not surprised they've gone under from experience of the way things were run and dealt with

Care to elaborate? Speaking as a former customer I didn't experience anything other than excellent service with fast turn around and an offer of addition help if a manufacturer didn't do the right thing after a problem with a purchases item.
Coel Hellier - on 20 May 2013
In reply to the thread:

How would a climbing shop survive in Arundel anyhow? It's not near much climbing and it's not near much population.

If the answer to that is "phone/internet business" then they don't need a high-street location with that added cost.
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Neil Williams - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Coel Hellier:

Which is precisely why The Outdoor Shop has moved away from Stony Stratford (though from a personal perspective it's a bit sad as it was always quite cool having an outdoor shop of the type you'd find in Ambleside in Milton Keynes!)

Haven't been in the new combined industrial unit yet, will do at some point when I need to buy something I guess. I doubt they'll lose any business over it, if anything they'll gain as parking in Stony, while free, was always a bit of a hassle.

Neil
In reply to Coel Hellier: If you do a search in the classifieds section for climbing shops for the southeast of England you will see how it can work (especially if you factor the bolt clipping trips to Portland from South East climbers).
owlart - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Coel Hellier:
> If the answer to that is "phone/internet business" then they don't need a high-street location with that added cost.

It's not always true that the high street is more expensive than industrial estate. Where I work does 95% of its business by phone/internet/mail order, but when we looked at the figures it worked out cheaper to stay where we are, with a shop front, than it did to move out to the industrial/business estate on the edge of town.
Trespasser - on 20 May 2013
In reply to DarrenH:

In fairness, Mountain Intelligence struggled from the off because of where they were based.

They had excellent staff, great products and good pricing, but the shop was located in pretty much the worst spot in Leeds City Centre for shoppers. They would have had virtually no impulse footfall, and when you couple awful parking and the Leeds loop system design, they were a total pain in the arse to get to.

A real shame - all the Cotswolds store in Leeds sells now is North Face, Jack Wolfskin and women's gilets.

Sketchy - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Antigua: We certainly did our best keeping customers happy but it was so often a case of pestering the guys to actually pay suppliers to get some deliveries in to restock the shop. They lost so many key accounts by simply not keeping up with payments - Equip and OSC were 2 major ones which is a shame because brands like Rab and Mountain Equipment are always in high demand.
Luckily the majority of Peglers customers were very understanding when something didn't come in on time or had to be swapped for a similar product.
bomble - on 20 May 2013
Sad news when an independent leaves the scene. It hits their customers but also their suppliers very hard.
muppetfilter - on 21 May 2013
In reply to Trespasser: it's a shame that little shops seem to be in decline while monsters like Go-Outdoors and their non climber staff are on the rise.
frqnt - on 18 Jun 2013
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> For anyone that has goods paid for but not delivered please reclaim the money through your card provider or if that is not possible please write to :
>
> The Administrator...

I was wanting to know if anyone had any luck retrieving monies/goods owed to them by contacting the aforementioned Administrator?

I have outstanding items from an order I placed with Dave; I paid direct into the Peglers bank account to do them a favour and was never provided with an invoice. I have sent a letter to the Administrator as prescribed above but am yet to receive a response. To make things worse, I'm now based in NZ.

Can anyone offer advice/suggestions? Does anyone know who the Administrator is and if I can contact them directly? I'm owed a Beal Joker and other sundry items.
Simon Caldwell - on 18 Jun 2013
In reply to frqnt:
> Can anyone offer advice/suggestions?

Write it off and put it down to experience :-(
Asian Climber - on 18 Jun 2013
In same position myself except I paid by credit card. The insurance should cover it but they won't pay out unless I receive a letter from the Administrator. I've been waiting a while now.

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