/ Worst ungraded start

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
James90 - on 13 May 2013
i'm aware that in northumberland crags the guidebooks ignore the first few meters of the climb.

I'm just wondering what people think the worst climbs are in terms of the start being out of proportion with the grade (i'm aware this is every northumberland climb but which are the worst offenders).

Worst i've seen is flake wall at bowden doors, a diff with a 5a start.
kyaizawa - on 13 May 2013
In reply to James90: Verandah Buttress at Stanage is the well known one with a 5b start (apparently - I've not got around to doing it).
From personal experience, I'd say that many of the easier routes at Birchen have quite hard, bouldery/undercut starts (Hollybush Gully, Trafalgar Wall, Emma's Temptation, etc.)
Dave Kerr - on 13 May 2013
In reply to James90:

I prescribe a heavy dose of MTFU. ;)

James90 - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:

Don't get me wrong i enjoy them! as their tricky with no (or little)risk, but their are some very odd climbs out their because of it.
Dr Toph on 13 May 2013
In reply to James90:

I would vote for Fingerwrecker in the Pass of Ballater. One move at the very start, that lives up to the name, very hard to grade as its mostly to do with pain tolerance.
JDal - on 14 May 2013
In reply to James90:
You have to mention Callerhues in this thread. How about Cold Start at VS 6a? And the 6a part is a bit Northumbrian. I have no idea how to do it and I've never seen anyone succeed.
Jonny2vests - on 14 May 2013
In reply to James90:

I think the start of Wombat at the Roaches goes unmentioned in the guide I have, yet is harder than the roof.
Jonny2vests - on 14 May 2013
In reply to kyaizawa:
> (In reply to James90) Verandah Buttress at Stanage is the well known one with a 5b start (apparently - I've not got around to doing it).

Yeah, but the grade is adjusted for that.

> From personal experience, I'd say that many of the easier routes at Birchen have quite hard, bouldery/undercut starts (Hollybush Gully, Trafalgar Wall, Emma's Temptation, etc.)

Yeah.
a lakeland climber on 14 May 2013
In reply to James90:

Blue Light at Attermire used to get VS, which it is if you can do the 6b move to get to the first hold

ALC
GrahamD - on 14 May 2013
In reply to James90:

I reckon Terriers Tooth is a candidate. Given many a VD leader a wobble up to where you can just about get some gear in.
James90 - on 14 May 2013
In reply to JDal:

im assuming vs 6a is the guidebook? UKC has regraded in their logbook to e3
CurlyStevo - on 14 May 2013
In reply to GrahamD:
Terriers Tooth has been regraded to HS for the start up the black vein.
victim of mathematics - on 14 May 2013
In reply to a lakeland climber:
> (In reply to James90)
>
> Blue Light at Attermire used to get VS, which it is if you can do the 6b move to get to the first hold
>
> ALC

Same with Monty Python's Flying Circus:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=61928
Bulls Crack - on 14 May 2013
In reply to James90:

Spat off Tigers Wall?
Dave Garnett - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Jonny2vests:
> (In reply to James90)
>
> I think the start of Wombat at the Roaches goes unmentioned in the guide I have, yet is harder than the roof.

I agree. A desperate throw for the break from precarious polished footholds and side pull for me too.
In reply to James90:
> i'm aware that in northumberland crags the guidebooks ignore the first few meters of the climb.
>
>

Really" 1st I have heard of it.


Chris
GrahamD - on 14 May 2013
In reply to CurlyStevo:
> (In reply to GrahamD)
> Terriers Tooth has been regraded to HS for the start up the black vein.

Its been HS for a while I know - but even at that its a bit steadier than you might expect !

Robert Durran - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Chris Craggs:
> (In reply to James90)
>
> Really" 1st I have heard of it.

Yes. A h.ard start does affect the grade, just not as much as the same move further up because you can have multiple goes at it
Offwidth - on 14 May 2013
In reply to kyaizawa:

VB is 4c when you know how and should be Severe anyhow by Stanage grades.
In reply to Offwidth:
>
> VB is 4c when you know how and should be Severe anyhow by Stanage grades.

It is HVDiff 5b in the 'Definitive'.



Chris
Simon Caldwell - on 14 May 2013
In reply to James90:
> i'm aware that in northumberland crags the guidebooks ignore the first few meters of the climb.

Are they? I thought they were just badly graded.

Banana Wall for instance gets MVS 4c. The 4c bit is leaving the ground. The MVS is because the rest of it is a solo.
JDal - on 14 May 2013
In reply to James90: Yep, in the definitive guidebook.

It gets E3 6b in Rockfax. It's daft really, it's a boulder problem with an easy topout (I assume it's easy, having never reached it!). The adjectival grade is a bit arbitary.
James90 - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Toreador:
> Are they? I thought they were just badly graded.

I had heard so but can't find it officially written (have seen it written in this forum more than once), is it one of those climbing myths that isnt true?. I also noted that their are climbs where climbs have starts that warrent a tech grade but none is given, e.g the diff with the 5a start (the 5a is the concensus on the logbook, not a given grade).
Nick Russell on 14 May 2013
In reply to Jonny2vests:
> (In reply to James90)
>
> I think the start of Wombat at the Roaches goes unmentioned in the guide I have, yet is harder than the roof.

Similar experience here, maybe I was missing something. I agree with E2 and the roof is no more than 5b, but that move low down felt like tough 5c to me.
Jonny2vests - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Nick Russell:
> (In reply to Jonny2vests)
> [...]
>
> Similar experience here, maybe I was missing something. I agree with E2 and the roof is no more than 5b, but that move low down felt like tough 5c to me.

Yeah, totally.
Offwidth - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Chris Craggs:

It is HVDiff 5b in the 'Definitive'."

So what? I think its better as a severe, not much difference there and the guidebook team genrally don't change classic grades for the sake of it (a good thng). The easy way of doing it IS 4c and I tried several times over a few years to find it, gave up, and had to be shown. It's also probably most often climbed as a HS 5c (the grade I'd give to the method of crimping the rib).

Dave Garnett - on 15 May 2013
In reply to James90:
> i'm aware that in northumberland crags the guidebooks ignore the first few meters of the climb.

This seems to be the tradition in New Zealand, at least at Froggatt. All the routes tend to have overhanging starts on awkward shallow pockets, which are ignored for grading purposes despite being the crux of the route.

Traditionally, this was especially true at Birchen Edge. The combination of soil erosion and polish led to some shockers; I recall Dane's Delight being particularly sporting at the grade. Much better in recent guides.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Offwidth - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Dave Garnett:

We certainly graded Birchen including the starts. Routes which were boulder problems now have bouldering grades first if highballs or uniquely if not.

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.