/ NEWS: BIG Day at Wimberry - Whittaker, Randall, Lee - E10?

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UKC News - on 13 May 2013
Pete Whittaker in a wild position on Baron Greenback, 3 kbWimberry's Last Great Problem falls to Pete Whittaker, whilst Tom Randall gets the 2nd ascent of Appointment with Death (E9 6c) and Nathan Lee makes the 3rd ascent of Order of the Phoenix, (E8 6c) all in the same day.




Saturday the 4th May saw a very impressive day with three big...

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=68052
Quarryboy - on 13 May 2013
In reply to UKC News:

That prow looks totally mad, Sick effort!
Dan Lane - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Quarryboy:

It is, I've stood underneath it and thought "No wonder it's known as Myles' *project* - That thing'll never get climbed!"

So, Good effort, Pete!
Graeme Hammond - on 13 May 2013
In reply to UKC News:

I remember looking up at the prow direct and thinking it looked amazing on my first visit then on another visit I saw Pete & Tom drop a rope on it (can't remember if they just inspected it or top roped it as we were to busy climbing) in April 2011 and ever since then I've been expecting this news! Top effort.
Ged Desforges - on 14 May 2013
In reply to UKC News: Where does the E10 in the headline come from?
lummox - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Ged Desforges: One of the most amazing features on grit- very impressive !
GuyVG - on 14 May 2013
In reply to UKC News: cant wait for the film looking at the close up, proper war face!
Dangerous Dave - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Ged Desforges:
> (In reply to UKC News) Where does the E10 in the headline come from?

I think UKC have been taking hints of the Daily Fail!
Simon Caldwell - on 14 May 2013
In reply to UKC News:

When does the heated debate start about the bolts...
SCC - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Toreador:

^^^ there?

;-)

Si
Tom Last - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Ged Desforges:
> (In reply to UKC News) Where does the E10 in the headline come from?

Err, yeah wondered that too, didn't Pete: "Decline[...] to give it a grade..."?

Still, I guess there is a question mark in there.
flaneur - on 14 May 2013


The prow is a fantastic line with mad-looking climbing. Congratulations to all three.


In reply to Ged Desforges:

> Where does the E10 in the headline come from?

Betteridge's law of headlines: "Any headline which ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."

"The reason why journalists use that style of headline is that they know the story is probably bollocks, and donít actually have the sources and facts to back it up, but still want to run it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines
Daniel Heath - on 14 May 2013
In reply to UKC News:

8b climbing on a grit route! amazing
Marek - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Daniel Heath:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> 8b climbing on a grit route! amazing

According to the Rockfax table, a safe f8b equates (roughly) to E8. So not E10 and seemingly quite a way off the bleeding edge of trad today.
Not that I would know.
Nice line though.
Blue Straggler - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Marek:
> (In reply to Daniel Heath)
> [...]
>
> According to the Rockfax table, a safe f8b equates (roughly) to E8. So not E10 and seemingly quite a way off the bleeding edge of trad today.

I'd go with the FA's opinion rather than the Rockfax table!
Jimbo C - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Marek:

I know you're being a bit tongue in cheek, but to be fair to Pete, it still represents one of the hardest technical achievements on a grit route, just maybe not the most dangerous.
remus - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Marek: I get the impression that this is safe in the same way partheon shot was safe, i.e. not very!
andybenham - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Marek:
> (In reply to Daniel Heath)
> [...]
>
> According to the Rockfax table, a safe f8b equates (roughly) to E8

And the word to note here is "safe". Having made the 10,000th ascent of the corner crack to the right some years ago I had intended to wander over and solo the prow until I realised I had forgotten my lucky brown pants. Oh, and its nails and FEKKIN DESPERATE!

Marek - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> (In reply to Marek)
> [...]
>
> I'd go with the FA's opinion rather than the Rockfax table!

Which was? Hint: 'Declining to give a grade other than f8b..."
Ramblin dave - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:
But the FA didn't give his opinion - the report explicitly says so.

I'm guessing that the reason for that (and for the E10 speculation) is that it's impossible to really know whether the bolts would hold a fall or not, so whether it's safe as houses or potentially deadly is best left for the person attempting it to judge for themselves...

Awesome line, anyway - top climb! And props to Tom and Nathan, too.
Marek - on 14 May 2013
In reply to remus:
> (In reply to Marek) I get the impression that this is safe in the same way partheon shot was safe, i.e. not very!

From the FA: '...line, climbing, position, holds, danger and safety are all perfect'. I read that as (to paraphrase) it's safe for the grade.
Tom Last - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Marek:
> (In reply to remus)
> [...]
>
> From the FA: '...line, climbing, position, holds, danger and safety are all perfect'. I read that as (to paraphrase) it's safe for the grade.

In contrast, I took that to mean that whatever the relative levels of safety/danger, the risk/lack thereof was an acceptable level to the FA.
Blue Straggler - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:
> (In reply to Blue Straggler)
> But the FA didn't give his opinion - the report explicitly says so.
>
> I'm guessing that the reason for that (and for the E10 speculation) is that it's impossible to really know whether the bolts would hold a fall or not

Didn't Pete's blog say that falls were taken safely onto the bolts? Or did I misread that?

I know he declined to grade it. I was just commenting that the top end of the Rockfax grade conversion table possibly has rather less meaning than Pete declining to grade it.
Kemics - on 14 May 2013
I like the trad ethic that it's okay to bolt something as long as it's 8a or above :)
thermal_t - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Kemics:
> I like the trad ethic that it's okay to bolt something as long as it's 8a or above :)

Did you read the article?
Hardonicus - on 14 May 2013
In reply to UKC News: WOOT! Awesome news.

Not sure where the E10 came from though? Surely this is not possible without a death fall?
In reply to Hardonicus:
> (In reply to UKC News) WOOT! Awesome news.
>
> Not sure where the E10 came from though? Surely this is not possible without a death fall?

I really, really hope that is supposed to be a joke, but have a sinking feeling.


Chris
Hephaestus - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Condition of the bolts has to be taken into account. They're old 8mm aid bolts that have been there since the 80's at least (anyone know?), so the line in the article that collectively they might provide a soft catch (i.e. they're not great and the belayer is going to have to help reduce the impact) is what needs attention.

Okay, they've taken one fall, but that's not to say they'll take another! Someone mentioned Parthian Shot earlier, but I seem to remember a discussion about clipping pegs on London Wall and what grade it should be at about the time someone ripped the pegs and fell to the ground that might be more relevant.

So it could be E8 if the old aid bolts are brilliant, or it could be E10 if they turn out to be questionable.
Tom V - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Hephaestus:
There were bolts on the Prow in the early 70's but I don't know if these are the same ones.
In reply to Hephaestus:
>
>
> So it could be E8 if the old aid bolts are brilliant, or it could be E10 if they turn out to be questionable.

I can't see there is any way they can be other than crap; hand drilled 8mm caving bolts that are 30+ years old and (I assume) upside down. Crazy!!


Chris
Alex Thompson - on 14 May 2013
In reply to UKC News: This is awesome news and have been following details since a friend caught a photo of folks up there the week before. Can't wait for the Hotaches film to be released!!
My only complaint is that Nathan needs to work on making his ascent look harder. Talk about effortless! ;-)
goli - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Hardonicus:
> (In reply to UKC News) WOOT! Awesome news.
>
> Not sure where the E10 came from though? Surely this is not possible without a death fall?

Wow.....
Kemics - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Hardonicus:

you are Dave Birkett and I claim my £5
Climbster - on 14 May 2013
In reply to UKC News:

What is this grade/bolt/death route speculation bollukcs all about?

Just imagine the time, talent and sheer commitment which goes into rare ascents like this.

BIG PROPS!

Nuff said.
Jonathan - on 15 May 2013
In reply to UKC News:

"Tom Randall made the second ascent of Appointment with Death (E9 6c). First climbed by Sam Whittaker in 2003, the route has waited ten years to see its first repeat, likely owing to the long walk in and near protection-less nature of the climbing."

It was certainly the "long walk in" that had put me off!
Phil Sneyd on 15 May 2013
In reply to Hephaestus: Bolts were placed in 1969.
Phil Sneyd on 15 May 2013
In reply to UKC News: Vid shows consolation prize being climbed on RHS of arete as a FA. I've personally seen this done three times this way IN 2003/4.
grubes - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Phil Sneyd: probably not in the new guide
I blame martin
Hirosim - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Hephaestus:
> (In reply to Blue Straggler)
>
> Condition of the bolts has to be taken into account. They're old 8mm aid bolts that have been there since the 80's at least (anyone know?), so the line in the article that collectively they might provide a soft catch (i.e. they're not great and the belayer is going to have to help reduce the impact) is what needs attention.
>
> Okay, they've taken one fall, but that's not to say they'll take another! Someone mentioned Parthian Shot earlier, but I seem to remember a discussion about clipping pegs on London Wall and what grade it should be at about the time someone ripped the pegs and fell to the ground that might be more relevant.
>
> So it could be E8 if the old aid bolts are brilliant, or it could be E10 if they turn out to be questionable.


Rhapsody was graded E11 by the FA, after multiple >20 falls from the top without injury.

Jimbo C - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Hirosim:
> (In reply to Hephaestus)
> [...]
>
>
> Rhapsody was graded E11 by the FA, after multiple >20 falls from the top without injury.

Yes, because the climbing on Rhapsody is significantly harder than on any of the E10s that were around to compare it with. Dave Mac reckoned f8c+ and Steve Mac thought that to be right.

ads.ukclimbing.com
Michael Gordon - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Hirosim:
> (In reply to Hephaestus)
> [...]
>
>
> Rhapsody was graded E11 by the FA, after multiple >20 falls from the top without injury.

I don't think MacLeod had over 20 lead attempts on Rhapsody. I thought less than 10 but I could be wrong!

No serious injury but it looked like he sprained his ankle quite badly.
biscuit - on 15 May 2013
In reply to everyone going on about grades:

Have a look at this and see how hard it is to make an estimate of a grade:

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,22256.0.html

A great honest write up that i think shows how tricky it is to get the grade of a FA correct.

Instead of going on about it here we will all have to wait and see what successive ascentionists ( if there are any ) think and a consensus will be reached like it generally always has.

But i guess that would take away half the fun ;-)
nathanlee - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Phil Sneyd:

oh well, shame it wasn't written up in the new guide.
Red Rover - on 17 May 2013
In reply to UKC News: That wasnt the only breakthrough that happened in Chew that weekend, Wilderness Gully East now has a sitting start.
Nic_Sandy - on 27 May 2013
In reply to UKC News:
What is it about those funky super hard grit routes? They give me the shakes just looking at the pics. Fine effort lads all round. Shame the debate has to start, mostly by people who will never climb the routes in question. Does it really all matter at the end of day? Damn fine looking route, savagely imposing!
Jamie B - on 27 May 2013
In reply to nilcanpoop:

> Shame the debate has to start, mostly by people who will never climb the routes in question. Does it really all matter at the end of day?

It's a discussion forum, why not discuss the route? It would be a pretty bland thread if everybody just posted congratulations, although that is clearly due!
Nic_Sandy - on 02 Jun 2013
In reply to Jamie B:
Im not against discussion. I just hate all the nit picking about grades. If there was a mat present in a half mile area around the base of the route then the E grade drops to E7. If the wind blows a certain direction its easier and there goes another E point. I have to say though there is not much of that here. As for discussing the route,well it looks amazing, its on grit and the lad who did it is a savage climber. Just don't mention he used a stick to clip one of the bolts. The other classic is why do people not grade routes in the UK? Because everybody disagrees and claims the numbers are inflated and the person who did it first just wants his name on the front page.
Frank the Husky - on 02 Jun 2013
In reply to grubes:
> (In reply to Phil Sneyd) probably not in the new guide
> I blame martin

And he blames me for eating the script with the RHS of the arete in. It was covered in cheese, see?

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