/ Climb mag 100 lists

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Have other UKCers got their 100th issue of Climb yet? It has the 100 best climbs in Britain in it and 100 most important people in UK climbing of the last 50 years - the type of lists that are designed to be argued over!

Did anyone think some person or some route had been missed out? My copy hasn't arrived yet, so I've only seen an electronic version of the people list. I always used to moan that OTE (being Sheffield mafia an all that) never knew anything about Scottish winter, so got most of the way through this list thinking "oh no, they're going to forget Nisbet", but he's there at no.82. I guess Climb editor Ian is huge Scottish winter fan, so that accounts for there being plenty of Scottish winter activist in there too. Simon Richardson doesn't get in though and I suspect that he has much a claim to regional fame as someone like Pete Oxley who is in (and "Scottish winter" is maybe the biggest 'region'!). I'm sure there will be other climbers linked mainly to one area who have been missed out. UKC Alan gets in, but only for Rockfax - not UKC. Very 'old media'. ;-)

I've only seen the first 7 of the routes list ( http://www.greenshires.3dvp.co.uk/Climb_Preview_June_2013_Issue_100/#/2/ ) anything obvious missing out the next 93? :)
Tyler - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:

Blimey! Looking at the top 11 influential climbers I'm guessing Climb mag wanted to start some controversy! It's a bit Sheffield-centric

Climbing did a similar list of of the 100 best climbs a while ago, it was the most cliched, obvious list ever. From the ten listed there it looks like Climb have attempted to put some thought into it.
Tyler - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Tyler:

Ah, my mistake, not influential but those who have made British climbing great. Even so.......
mark s - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TobyA: well from the part that is on the link,i can see this being controversial.certainly some dont deserve their placing and no sign of johnny dawes ??
Simon Caldwell - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:

Can someone tell me if The Night Watch is in the routes list? If not I'm not going to waste my money ;-)
TRip - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Toreador:
> (In reply to TobyA)
>
> Can someone tell me if The Night Watch is in the routes list? If not I'm not going to waste my money ;-)

It is... Nominated by F Cookson
Steve Perry - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TobyA: Can someone post the lists on this thread?
In reply to mark s:
> and no sign of johnny dawes ??

No. 36 "Probably the single most influential British climber of all time." Personally I wouldn't agree with that description of him, but he's definitely there.

The climbs are listed in regional "chapters", Scotland first so all those route on the first pages are Scottish for that reason. The people don't seem to be in any particular order at all. At a guess Jerry and Mina are on the first double page spread as they were easily available for a photo shoot! That Sheffield thing again... ;)
TRip - on 15 May 2013
People List in full...

A good list and an entertaining issue.

1 Ron Fawcett
2 Ben Moon
3 Joe Brown
4 Jerry Moffatt
5 Mina Leslie-Wujastyk
6 Pete Livesey
7 Lucy Creamer
8 Seb Grieve
9 Al Rouse
10 Pete Crew
11 Percy Bishton
12 Ruth Jenkins
13 Ken Wilson
14 Doug Scott
15 John Dunne
16 Guy Robertson
17 Allan Austin
18 Andy Cave
19 Cubby Cuthbertson
20 Grimer
21 Caff
22 Stevie Haston
23 Zippy
24 Paul Pritchard
25 Hazel Findlay
26 Jimmy Marshall
27 Don Whillans
28 Dave Birkett
29 Malcolm Smith
30 Leo Holding
31 John Readhead
32 Ian Vickers
33 Steve Bancroft
34 Neil Gresham
35 Eric Jones
36 Dawes
37 Mark Leach
38 Pete Oxley
39 Dougie Hall
40 Alan Mullin
41 Jim Perrin
42 Rab Carrington
43 Ed Douglas
44 Fliss Butler
45 Chris Bonington
46 Martin Boysen
47 Simon Nadin
48 Stephen Venables
49 Airlie Anderson
50 Neil Bentley
51 Dougal Haston
52 Leo Dickinson
53 Tom Proctor
54 Joe Simpson
55 John Allen
56 Roger Payne
57 Glenda Huxter
58 Alan James
59 Louise Thomas
60 Alison Hardgraves
61 Ryan Pasquill
62 Tom Randall
63 Charlie Woodburn
64 Rachel Farmer
65 Johnny Woodward
66 Andy Pollit
67 Don Robinson
68 Martin Crocker
69 Pete Whittaker
70 John Syrett
71 Ben Bransby
72 Nick Dixon
73 Dave Turnbull
74 Pete Whillance
75 Ed Drummond
76 Tim Emmett
77 James Pearson
78 Pat Littlejohn
79 Dan Varian
80 Tut Braithwaite
81 Mick Fowler
82 Andy Nisbet
83 Tom Patey
84 John Brailsford
85 Dave Macleod
86 Alex MacIntyre
87 Alun Hughes
88 John Arran
89 Nick Bullock
90 Crispin Waddy
91 Alison Chadwick
92 Joe Tasker
93 Peter Boardman
94 Andy Parkin
95 Robin Smith
96 Shauna Coxsey
97 Paul Williams
98 Gary Gibson
99 Rich Heap
100 Andy Kirkpatrick

Notable Emissions

Steve Mac - He wrote it so fair dos.
Pete Robins
Mark Valance - He invented Friends and Rocks FFS!
George Band
Simon Richardson
Twid - Has done way more than Louise!
Parnell - Loads of amazing Himalayan Alpine Climbs and a fair few bonkers trad routes.
Jules Cartwright
Andy Perkins
Brendan Murphy
At least on of the Leeds Alpine Scene - Powel, Bracey, Cross or Cool
Martin Moran

Come on UKC who really deserves a place in the top 100?!


Ged Desforges - on 15 May 2013
Climb magazine chief editor lives about 200 miles from Sheffield, so its unlikely to be biased towards shefffield climbers
Steve Perry - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip: I agree with the 100 but it looks to me like lots of them could be in the top ten, did they pull them out of a bingo machine?
TRip - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Steve Perry:
> (In reply to TRip) I agree with the 100 but it looks to me like lots of them could be in the top ten, did they pull them out of a bingo machine?

I don't think they're really in order.
In reply to TRip: Top typing Tom! :) You gonna do the best climbs list too?! ;)

I think you're right too that some of the 90s generation of uber-alpinists should be in there. I think both Dave Pickford and Ian P. have a claim to be on the list too, but as Climb's editors I suspect they are being modest.
stevieb - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip:
Bear Grylls?
Bulls Crack - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:

Dawes at 36 and Macleod at 80 something....hmmmmm that's lists for you ie wrong!
Steve Perry - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TobyA: Fred Dibnah??
Simon Caldwell - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip:
> Notable Emissions

Debbie does Dallas?

<coat />
Ian Patterson on 15 May 2013
In reply to Bulls Crack:
> (In reply to TobyA)
>
> Dawes at 36 and Macleod at 80 something....hmmmmm that's lists for you ie wrong!

Pretty obvious that the list's not in any order, though starting for Fawcett, Moon, Brown, Moffat may give that impression initially.

Some possible misses:
Steve Mac - explained above, but think he could have included himself without anybody complaining!
John Gaskins - is this the lone wolf thing?
Neil Carsons - not that many routes but the first 9a in the country (unless Hubble is 9a).
Jim Walton on 15 May 2013
In reply to TobyA: Burgess Brothers, Les Holliwell, John Hunt, Paul Nunn Jim Birkett to name a few
Ian Parnell - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Ian Patterson: You're quite right it's not in order, and Steve Mac is in the list he's 101 ;-)
Jim Walton on 15 May 2013
In reply to Jim Walton: Pete Biven
Simon Caldwell - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip:
> It is... Nominated by F Cookson

Just bought a copy :)

If the idea is that the list will generate discussion, then it's probably doomed to failure, as a large majority of routes are in the upper grades, so most climbers won't have been anywhere near them.
TRip - on 15 May 2013


Just for you Tobes...

Scotland
Old Man of Hoy
Butterknife
Ardverikie Wall
Fionn Buttress
Old Man of Stoer
Integrity
The Pause
Panting Dog Climb
Steeple
Shibboleth
Prozac Link
Run of the Arrow
Dragonhead
Kelpile
Marlene
The Chisel

The Lakes
Eagle Front
Tophet Wall
Lord of the Rings
Fear and Fascination
Sixpence

North of England
Nightw*tch
Carnage
Rainshaddow
Lost Cause
Left Wall - Brimham
Great Western
Mandela
The Golden Tower

The Peak
Archangel
Via Principia
Meditation
Bob Hope
Elegy - interesting definition of Peak District
Great Slab - Froggatt
Direct Indirect
Super Prow
Adjudicator Wall
Hanging Crack
Strapadictomy
London Wall
Beau Geste
Appointment with Fear
Meshuga

The Big NW
Main Wall
White Slab
Jelly Roll
The Brute
Left Wall - Cromlech
Vector
The Boldest
Phoenix
Silly Arete
New Dimensions
The Moon
Foil
Lord of the Flies
The Axe
Right Wall
Positron
The Cad
Dream of White Horses
Rainbow Recalcitrance
Resurrection
Wall of the Evening Light
Conan the Librarian
Ugly
Indian Face
Fantan B
The Quarryman

South Wales

Chimes Freedom
Exposure Explosion
Preposterous Tales
Underneath the Arches
Pleasure Dome
Sunlover
Maestegosaurus
Transformer
Berlin

South of England
Devil's Slide
Widespread Ocean of Fear
Doorpost
Moonraker
Coronation Street
America
Smile
Sacre Coeur
Dream/Liberator
Fay
The Lean Machine
Infinite Gravity
Skeleton Ridge
Ben
Rainbow Bridge
Caveman
the Jackals
Bird or Paradise
The Conger
Twangy Pearl
Yellow Edge

A good, not too predictable but quite esoteric list. Too much trad limestone from my liking. Where on earth was Cenotaph Corner?
jon on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip:

Only five good routes in the Lakes...
Nick Russell on 15 May 2013
In reply to Steve Perry:
> (In reply to TobyA) Can someone post the lists on this thread?

Somebody should make it into a ukc ticklist

<takes a step back>
Tom Last - on 15 May 2013
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to TRip)
>
> Only five good routes in the Lakes...

Only five on the list in Cornwall too and one of them is Doorpost, hmm.
Ian Patterson on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip:
>
>
> A good, not too predictable but quite esoteric list. Too much trad limestone from my liking. Where on earth was Cenotaph Corner?

With the other 5 routes from the Cromlech already there? Seems quite north wales biased to me (and I spent a lot of time in NW when I used to trad climb).

Steve Perry - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TobyA: The 100 best climbs sports Indian Face and Rainshadow, how can climbs that have been done by less than 10 people be deemed "best"?
Nick Russell on 15 May 2013
In reply to Steve Perry:
> how can climbs that have been done by less than 10 people be deemed "best"?

Perhaps they're only in there to put off "puerile tickers"
getandy - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip:
definately some climbs missing here flying butress is a classic should not be missing from any list and where and think the peapod should be on there but the north wales list seems fairly good
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to TRip)
>
> Only five good routes in the Lakes...

That's what I thought. V N Wales centric. Vector, Foil, The Boldest. OK, so they're in Extreme Rock, but they're hardly in the top 100 routes in the country!
snoop6060 - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Steve Perry:
> (In reply to TobyA) The 100 best climbs sports Indian Face and Rainshadow, how can climbs that have been done by less than 10 people be deemed "best"?

When people with as much credibility and experience as Adam Ondra say so I suppose.
Ian Parnell - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Tom Briggs - Jagged Globe: Tom you should have nominated something from the Lakes ;-) and believe me I halved the North Wales routes.
snoop6060 - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip:

In reply to TRip:
>
>

>
> A good, not too predictable but quite esoteric list. Too much trad limestone from my liking. Where on earth was Cenotaph Corner?

There isn't enough lime in the peak, its too grit focused. Darius, Supersonic... horses for courses I suppose.
Sam Simpson - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TobyA: great I dont have to buy it now.
Steve Perry - on 15 May 2013
In reply to snoop6060:
> (In reply to Steve Perry)
>
> When people with as much credibility and experience as Adam Ondra say so I suppose.

It takes a lot more ticks on a UKC route log to change the stars*** ;-)

snoop6060 - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Steve Perry:

We should promote Adam to custodian of the stars, make him climb all 100 of these and see what he thinks. He will no doubt enjoy dovestones quarry and anglezarke :-)

Golden tower in the top 100 climbs in Britain! Hell no.
In reply to Ian Parnell:

The problem is there are so many good extremes in the Lakes from E2-E6 I wouldn't know where to start! Was there somewhere we were supposed to have nominated them? Sorry - missed that. Foil is 70 foot of pleasant enough climbing I guess, but totally overshadowed by 3 other routes on the same bit of rock. Seems like a weird choice. Not done Bitter Oasis or Snickersnack or Grand Alliance or Prana or The Vikings or Cruel Sister?
Ian Parnell - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Tom Briggs - Jagged Globe:
Quote "Was there somewhere we were supposed to have nominated them?" You need to look at a better class of facebook pages, Tom:-)
Quote "Foil...seems like a weird choice. Not done Bitter Oasis or Snickersnack or Grand Alliance or Prana or The Vikings or Cruel Sister?" You'll have to ask Jon, he nominated it, as you know routes can make a mark on people, and classics can sometimes float by unnoticed

It was a fascinating process - seeing what was nominated, perhaps it should have been Britain's favourite routes as there is so much personal experience involved when you are nominating a route. Having said that I think its a great list. If you managed all the routes within your grade range you'd have a brilliant climbing experience and a real insight into British climbing.
In reply to Ian Parnell:

Ah right, missed it. Some good things on the list to inspire, I admit. Skeleton Ridge being one of them now that my Dad has moved to Dorset...
Tyler - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip:

Nice one Tom. I thought I was doing pretty well on the N. Wales list and then I got down towards the bottom of the list....
In reply to Tom Briggs - Jagged Globe:
> Some good things on the list to inspire, I admit. Skeleton Ridge being one of them now that my Dad has moved to Dorset...

Yes, I have a horrible feeling that I'm not actually bad enough not to feel I should give that one a go sometime too!

Calder - on 15 May 2013
In reply to snoop6060:
> (In reply to Steve Perry)
>
>...
>
> Golden tower in the top 100 climbs in Britain! Hell no.

You're just wrong. In my opinion Mandarin and Supercrack should also be in. And maybe Cracked Actor as well. And Deceptive Bends. And Cherry Bomb. And The Last Temptation.

I'm sure they could have easily axed a few of those rubbish North Wales routes for them.

And no, I haven't done all of them!
andyco13 - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:

Only one County route? I'd have a few more in (I'm probably biased though)

If the climbers list is in order, Johnny Dawes, Leo Houlding and Dave Macleod should be in the top ten.
Mark Stevenson - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip: Thanks for posting the full list.

I'm rather disappointed to see that I've only done 24 1/2 of the routes. (The 1/2 being Rainbow Bridge where I've failed on the crux.)

Have others fared any better?
victim of mathematics - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Calder:

I've only stood at the bottom and looked at it (shortly before it started raining), but the climbing on Cherry Bomb must be many many orders of magnitude better than it looks if it's anywhere close to troubling a top 100 list. Unless it's a list of VSs in uninspiring Lancashire chossholes.
TonyP - on 15 May 2013
Personally I saw the whole thing as the easiest way to fill a magazine with minimum work from the climb team
jon on 15 May 2013
In reply to Mark Stevenson:

37 for me. Bit disappointed there weren't more in Pembroke as well as the Lakes.
siobhan66 - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TobyA: I put this very subject in the pub forum a few days ago...obviously the wrong place!!! Andy Earl, why was he missed out?
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to Mark Stevenson)
>
> 37 for me. Bit disappointed there weren't more in Pembroke as well as the Lakes.

Really - 49 for me :-)


Chris
remus - on 15 May 2013
In reply to siobhan66:
> (In reply to TobyA) I put this very subject in the pub forum a few days ago...obviously the wrong place!!! Andy Earl, why was he missed out?

Given that there's only 100 spots I get the impression they've erred towards people who were big characters of their time as well as making significant contributions in terms of routes, performance etc. Would go some way to explaining the absence of the 'strong but quiet' crowd.
jon on 15 May 2013
In reply to Chris Craggs:

Probably meant I was surprised that Pembroke didn't feature more (rather than disappointed, that is).
Ian Parnell - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TonyP: I'm presuming that was tongue in cheek Tony?
Calder - on 15 May 2013
In reply to victim of mathematics:

It's definitely good. But I may be (or more honestly, am) overstating its quality somewhat due to my Lancashire bias!
Mark Collins - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Calder: Excellent, Anglezarke made the top 100. Well chuffed with that.
Big Lee - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip:

Why no winter routes? Sorry CLIMB this isn't "The Best 100 Climbs in Britain" it the 100 best rock climbs. Different.
Mark Collins - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip: I wonder if anyone from Scotland contributed to the list.
Ian Parnell - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Mark Collins: Iain Small, Garth, Iain Peters, Jules Lines, Scott Johnstone, Paul Tattersall and Jamie Hageman are the ones that spring to mind.
Robert Durran - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip:
> Come on UKC who really deserves a place in the top 100?!

A list wihch includes Mina Leslie-Wujastyk (nothing personal,just the first name on the list suitable as an example) but which excludes Alfred Mummery cannot be taken seriously.

Robert Durran - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Ian Parnell:
> (In reply to Mark Collins) Iain Small, Garth, Iain Peters, Jules Lines, Scott Johnstone, Paul Tattersall and Jamie Hageman are the ones that spring to mind.

Top climbers, but possibly not "influential".
ads.ukclimbing.com
prog99 on 15 May 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to TRip)
> [...]
>
> A list wihch includes Mina Leslie-Wujastyk (nothing personal,just the first name on the list suitable as an example) but which excludes Alfred Mummery cannot be taken seriously.
You didn't notice the rules - "in the last 50 years"
ALthough Robin Smith has snuck in.

Micky J - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TobyA: A few in there wouldnt make my top 10 000 ! ....... a few absentees off the top of my head ...Hank Dave Kenyon Phil Davidson Joe Healy George Smith Jordan ...........
In reply to siobhan66: my excuse is I don't read the pub! But this is a proper old school Rocktalk type of an argument. I bet we argued about it when OTE did similar a long long time ago. :)
Ian Parnell - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Mike_Watson_99:
Glad you're paying better attention than Robert ;-) Robin Smith died in 1962 shortly after making the first ascent of The Needle, onsight no aid. His winter week on the Ben in 1960 alone would have been enough for inclusion.
Robert Durran - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Mike_Watson_99:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)

> You didn't notice the rules - "in the last 50 years"

You're right. I didn't! Though I get the impression some people are interpreting it as "last 50 minutes". I'm not sure how the influence of immediate contemporaries can be appraised without a crystal ball. I suspect a fair number on the list will at best be footnotes in 50 years time.
Robert Durran - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip:
> Scotland
> Old Man of Hoy
> Butterknife
> Ardverikie Wall
> Fionn Buttress
> Old Man of Stoer
> Integrity
> The Pause
> Panting Dog Climb
> Steeple
> Shibboleth
> Prozac Link
> Run of the Arrow
> Dragonhead
> Kelpile
> Marlene
> The Chisel

Nothing on Minguilay or Pabbay? Surely some mistake.
Robert Durran - on 15 May 2013
In reply to TRip:

> Come on UKC who really deserves a place in the top 100?!

No Tom Patey? His writing alone must have been more influential than half the people on the list put together.

snoop6060 - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Calder:
> (In reply to snoop6060)
> [...]
> >...
> [...]
>
> You're just wrong. In my opinion Mandarin and Supercrack should also be in. And maybe Cracked Actor as well. And Deceptive Bends. And Cherry Bomb. And The Last Temptation.
>

You evidently really like quarries! Fair enough. I think thats a lancashire thing, but given there isn't much else there, maybe it's to be expected.

Though I did like supercrack, mandarin and cracked actor. They would maybe realistically have a chance of being in the top 100 if they were stacked upon each other as one route.

Postmanpat on 15 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:

Bonington at 45? Is this ab ouldering ranking or something? I know I'm old but perleeeese...
Ian Parnell - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Postmanpat: Scroll up the thread Pat, they're not in any particular order.
NeilMac - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Nick Russell:
> (In reply to Steve Perry)
> [...]
>
> Somebody should make it into a ukc ticklist
>
> <takes a step back>

Great idea! I've got a tick-list of tick-lists I need to tick off. As yet, I've not ticked off any of the tick-lists I have on my tick-list tick-list so another tick-list on my tick-list tick-list will only make my tick-list tick-list look better.

Fredt on 15 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:

Hamish MacInnes
AlanLittle - on 16 May 2013
Ed Douglas, Ken WIlson & Don Robinson are - rightly - on the list as "influential" although I assume it's not for their actual climbing achievements. In which case Gordon Bendall and Paul Diffley might also deserve mentions.

Sean Myles is one of the more prominent not-listed actual climbers. And whilst on the subject of emigres, Alec Sharp? Dave Pegg seems to be pretty influential in his new home too, although probably only "influential in the UK" counts?
TRip - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to TRip)
>
> [...]
>
> No Tom Patey? His writing alone must have been more influential than half the people on the list put together.

Number 83 Rob...
AlanLittle - on 16 May 2013
In reply to AlanLittle:
> Paul Diffley

on second thoughts, sorry Paul, but Leo Dickinson, Alun Hughes and Rich Heap are on there so the movie industry is fairly represented. The complete visual media side of things would be fairly represented if John Cleare weren't missing.

From an expat, influential outside the UK perspective, the only things about British climbing any foreigners have ever heard of are Jerry, Ben and Hard Grit.

cyberpunk - on 16 May 2013
In reply to TobyA: There is no route from Fairhead which IMO is the best crag in the UK.
Mark Collins - on 16 May 2013
In reply to cyberpunk: Good point, I've never been but it does look ace.
Mark Collins - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Ian Parnell: Fair enough, just thought there would be more Scottish routes. I guess its a case of more people = more routes, rather than more rock = more routes. I'm probably stating the bleeding obvious, but to have the Peak District a route less than the whole of Scotland seems a bit odd.
In reply to AlanLittle:

> From an expat, influential outside the UK perspective, the only things about British climbing any foreigners have ever heard of are Jerry, Ben and Hard Grit.

That's not true in my experience, I know more Finns who have gone to climb in Scotland in winter than have gone to try gritstone, hard or not.

In Jeff Lowe's book Cimbing from the late 80s he had The Needle in as the hardest mixed route in the world at the time! I think Scottish Winter Climbing has a decently strong "international brand".
paul__in_sheffield - on 16 May 2013
In reply to TobyA: good to see Andy Pollit on the list. Was this recognition of the great routes he put up, or the introduction of Lycra to the 80s climbing scene? Seem to remember the first pair was from the dance shop near The Crucible.
Cuthbert on 16 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:

Airlie Anderson ahead of Fowler, Macleod or Nisbet for influence or achievement??????????? Dream on!
TRip - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Saor Alba:
> (In reply to TobyA)
>
> Airlie Anderson ahead of Fowler, Macleod or Nisbet for influence or achievement??????????? Dream on!

It's not in order...
jon on 16 May 2013
In reply to TRip:

What you meant to say, Tom, was:

IT'S NOT IN ORDER.
Simon Caldwell - on 16 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:

The main obvious omission from the list is Franco Cookson
Robert Durran - on 16 May 2013
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to TRip)
>
> What you meant to say, Tom, was:
>
> IT'S NOT IN ORDER.

It would be fun to put it in order though!

Cuthbert on 16 May 2013
In reply to TRip:

I didn't realise that but either way she shouldn't be on there. It just goes to show the pointlessness of lists like these as there are many who are way more influential but not on the list.
snoop6060 - on 16 May 2013
In reply to cyberpunk:
> (In reply to TobyA) There is no route from Fairhead which IMO is the best crag in the UK.

It's the best trad in the uk crag by far, roll on may 30th when I shall return for battle number 2. There are 100 better routes at fairhead alone than some on this list, quite a few in fact.
smithaldo - on 16 May 2013
In reply to snoop6060: You missed out 'in my opinion' from that post.
snoop6060 - on 16 May 2013
In reply to smithaldo:

And plenty others I would imagine. I would gamble almost everyone who has climbed at both fairhead and anglezark could find 100 routes better at fairhead than golden tower. But yes, it was my opinion rather than a statement of fact.
puppythedog on 16 May 2013
In reply to Toreador: and Callum McNicol
Robert Durran - on 16 May 2013
In reply to snoop6060:
> I would gamble almost everyone who has climbed at both fairhead and anglezark could find 100 routes better at fairhead than golden tower.

I think you have to accept with lists like this that every area, however rubbish (hence the inclusion of Golden Tower as the best of a bad lot) gets represented. Otherwise, obviously, all the routes would either be in Scotland or at Fairhead.

metal arms on 16 May 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to snoop6060)
> [...]
>
> I think you have to accept with lists like this that every area, however rubbish (hence the inclusion of Golden Tower as the best of a bad lot) gets represented. Otherwise, obviously, all the routes would either be in Scotland or at Fairhead.

Except there was nothing for Fairhead!

Snoop6060 is right though. In this instance his opinion is an undeniable fact.
Nigel Thomson - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Saor Alba:
> (In reply to TRip)
>
> I didn't realise that but either way she shouldn't be on there.

You're right. The first female ascent of Masters Edge probably didn't influence a single woman to become serious about rock climbing.


Boy - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Toreador: That would be true if:
a. This were a list of the top 100 people in the UK called Franco Cookson
b. All the other Franco Cooksons were being investigated as part of operation Yew Tree
Mark Collins - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Mark Collins: I don't like the way this is going re Golden Tower, I'm on the edge of tears.
johncoxmysteriously - on 16 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:

Given that Robin Smith died in July 1962 he's doing particularly well to make a list of the most influential climbers of the last 50 years, unless we're saying that his influence endured after his death (in which case one can think of quite a few climbers dead by 1963 who might make the list).

jcm
bullybones - on 16 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:
Anyone know where Direct Indirect is? I searched the UKC database and came up with a boulder problem at Baldstones - I'm guessing that's not it.

Mark Collins - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Fredt:
> (In reply to TobyA)
>
> Hamish MacInnes

Good shout!
johncoxmysteriously - on 16 May 2013
In reply to bullybones:

I thought it was on the Cobbler. But I'm guessing that's not it either.

jcm
jcw on 16 May 2013
In reply to TRip: if they are not ranked why did they not put them in alphabetical order? It would also make it much easier to see who isn't on it. Incidentally, which Dawes. :-)
ksjs - on 16 May 2013
In reply to TobyA: Will read thread with interest but my tuppence:

- no idea how Phoenix at Crafnant made it, totally decent (indeed very good) route but Top 100 in the UK? No way! There are stacks of other way more outstanding / memorable routes in the E1-3 range in N Wales.

- also, nothing from The Leap? Got to be amongst one of the most special places to climb in the UK with some ultra classics in there.

- only 1 slate route too, disgraceful.

But, you can't please all the people all the time. Very enjoyable issue too!
ksjs - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Toreador: Class :)
ksjs - on 16 May 2013
In reply to ksjs: And Mandela better than Supercool? Haven't been on either but very much aspire to Supercool which is regularly touted as the UK's best sport route.
ksjs - on 16 May 2013
In reply to ksjs: And nothing from LPT? Why didn't I think of that before, even more disgusted now. What about Bad, Bad Boy, do they come any more classic? Melancholie, one of the most coveted 8s around? Surely there has to be something given the crag's importance?
jon on 16 May 2013
In reply to ksjs:

I can see you're winding yourself up and will soon explode...
ksjs - on 16 May 2013
In reply to jon: Luckily the debate over Golden Tower's merits versus the entirety of Fair Head is helping me relax.

But come on, nothing from The Leap or LPT? Get serious people!
Jon Stewart - on 16 May 2013
In reply to TRip:

Scotland
Old Man of Hoy
Butterknife
Ardverikie Wall
Fionn Buttress
Old Man of Stoer
Integrity
The Pause
Panting Dog Climb
Steeple
Shibboleth
Prozac Link
Run of the Arrow
Dragonhead
Kelpile
Marlene
The Chisel

I haven't done masses in Scotland but one of Hoy and Stoer must be spurious (I've only done Stoer - it's a laugh but I imagine Hoy is better). And nothing from Diabaig or Sheigra seems absurd when they are probably IMO the two best crags on mainland Britain.
Robert Durran - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> And nothing from Diabaig or Sheigra seems absurd when they are probably IMO the two best crags on mainland Britain.

Arguably (very), but certainly infinitely better than any Lancashire quarry.

The problem is that with Scotland being so massively underrepresented in order to include some of the scrappy stuff further south, some places had to be left out. Not finding room for Diabaig or Sheigra is just about understandable but to omit Mingulay and Pabbay completely really is ridiculous.

Mark Collins - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart: I'm with you on this Scottish thing, surely there is more worthwhile rock up there than is currently repesented.
Mark Collins - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
>
> [...]
>
> Arguably (very), but certainly infinitely better than any Lancashire quarry.
>

Easy mate, no need to go for the soft target. There're tons of quarries in the Peak District; Stanage, Froggatt, Curbar, Lawrencefield, etc.
Ian Bentley - on 16 May 2013
In reply to TobyA: I can't Believe there is nothing from the Southern Sandstone???
Jonny2vests - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Ian Bentley:
> (In reply to TobyA) I can't Believe there is nothing from the Southern Sandstone???

Or Stannington Ruffs, the Harrisons of the north!
Robert Durran - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Ian Bentley:
> (In reply to TobyA) I can't Believe there is nothing from the Southern Sandstone???

Nor can I given some of the other bizarre choices.

Jon Stewart - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Jonny2vests:
> (In reply to Ian Bentley)
> [...]
>
> Or Stannington Ruffs, the Harrisons of the north!

Well I can't believe there's nothing from Shipley Glen NOR Baildon Bank! And surely something from Park Rocks(http://www.yorkshiregrit.com/parkrocks.html - on my way back from Asda) is worthy of the list?
Bulls Crack - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Mark Collins:
> (In reply to Mark Collins) I don't like the way this is going re Golden Tower, I'm on the edge of tears.

Its no match for Mandarin!
cem on 16 May 2013
In reply to cyberpunk:

Perhaps it doesn't qualify because, while it's in the UK, it's not in Great Britain
tom84 - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Ian Bentley:

Because its a cack choss heap that's (fortunately) blowing away in the wind. There are no good routes on southern sandstone. It's the worst form of climbing imaginable.
Michael Gordon - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Hoy probably wins overall but Stoer is definitely better rock!
manumartin - on 16 May 2013
In reply to TobyA: 21 for me. I agree, there are loads that have been ignored in the lakes......and Stoney...............and what about Rhododendron Buttress and All Roads lead to Rome at Houghton!
GrahamD - on 17 May 2013
In reply to mountassguard:

> There are no good routes on southern sandstone. It's the worst form of climbing imaginable.

"Routes" is stretching a point for SS but there are plenty of good problems there. I don't have to imagine worse forms of climbing - i've experienced them often enough !

ads.ukclimbing.com
SCrossley on 17 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:
Unless I missed them, I am quite surprised Alan James/Chris Craggs are not there as I assume the list is about influence and not pure climbing ability. They must have done loads to make climbing more accessible via guidebooks and change the way people get climbing partners and the general approach to climbing via UKC.
Hugh Cottam - on 17 May 2013
In reply to sjc: What, even more than Percy Bishton!
TRip - on 17 May 2013
In reply to sjc:
> (In reply to TobyA)
> Unless I missed them, I am quite surprised Alan James/Chris Craggs are not there as I assume the list is about influence and not pure climbing ability.

I'm afraid you must have been scheme reading this morning. Alan is on the list, Toby even mentions this in his opening post.

Dave Garnett - on 17 May 2013
In reply to sjc:

Alan James is there. Grimer is too, for much the same reason (not that he isn't a pretty useful climber too!)
johncoxmysteriously - on 17 May 2013
In reply to sjc:

AJ is number 58, I think.

If we're talking about off-field influence I suspect someone would rate a mention for their role in making the BMC what it is today. Not that I know who; perhaps there was no one individual - Dennis Gray, perhaps?

jcm
TRip - on 17 May 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to sjc)
>
> AJ is number 58, I think.
>
> If we're talking about off-field influence I suspect someone would rate a mention for their role in making the BMC what it is today. Not that I know who; perhaps there was no one individual - Dennis Gray, perhaps?

Jeez - can none of you read?! ;-)

Roger Payne and Dave Turnbull are both on the list - both of them seemed a tad unnecessary to me.

Robert Durran - on 17 May 2013
In reply to TRip:
>
> Jeez - can none of you read?! ;-)

Does anyone have the skills/technology to put the list in alphabetical order for those of us who are just a little senile. It would really help!
prog99 on 17 May 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
Its been a slow morning so here you are other than the 4 at the end.

55 John Allen
49 Airlie Anderson
88 John Arran
17 Allan Austin
33 Steve Bancroft
50 Neil Bentley
28 Dave Birkett
11 Percy Bishton
93 Peter Boardman
45 Chris Bonington
46 Martin Boysen
84 John Brailsford
80 Tut Braithwaite
71 Ben Bransby
3 Joe Brown
89 Nick Bullock
44 Fliss Butler
42 Rab Carrington
18 Andy Cave
91 Alison Chadwick
96 Shauna Coxsey
7 Lucy Creamer
10 Pete Crew
68 Martin Crocker
19 Cubby Cuthbertson
52 Leo Dickinson
72 Nick Dixon
43 Ed Douglas
75 Ed Drummond
15 John Dunne
76 Tim Emmett
64 Rachel Farmer
1 Ron Fawcett
25 Hazel Findlay
81 Mick Fowler
98 Gary Gibson
34 Neil Gresham
8 Seb Grieve
39 Dougie Hall
60 Alison Hardgraves
22 Stevie Haston
51 Dougal Haston
99 Rich Heap
30 Leo Holding
87 Alun Hughes
57 Glenda Huxter
58 Alan James
12 Ruth Jenkins
35 Eric Jones
100 Andy Kirkpatrick
37 Mark Leach
5 Mina Leslie-Wujastyk
78 Pat Littlejohn
6 Pete Livesey
86 Alex MacIntyre
85 Dave Macleod
26 Jimmy Marshall
4 Jerry Moffatt
2 Ben Moon
40 Alan Mullin
47 Simon Nadin
82 Andy Nisbet
38 Pete Oxley
94 Andy Parkin
61 Ryan Pasquill
83 Tom Patey
56 Roger Payne
77 James Pearson
41 Jim Perrin
66 Andy Pollit
24 Paul Pritchard
53 Tom Proctor
62 Tom Randall
31 John Readhead
16 Guy Robertson
67 Don Robinson
9 Al Rouse
14 Doug Scott
54 Joe Simpson
29 Malcolm Smith
95 Robin Smith
70 John Syrett
92 Joe Tasker
59 Louise Thomas
73 Dave Turnbull
79 Dan Varian
48 Stephen Venables
32 Ian Vickers
90 Crispin Waddy
74 Pete Whillance
27 Don Whillans
69 Pete Whittaker
97 Paul Williams
13 Ken Wilson
63 Charlie Woodburn
65 Johnny Woodward
20 Grimer
21 Caff
23 Zippy
36 Dawes
Christheclimber - on 17 May 2013
In reply to TRip:

I would have thought Jim Moran would be in top 100???
Wiley Coyote - on 17 May 2013
In reply to TobyA: Reads like one of those "Greatest films of all time" lists where 80pc are from the last five years
TRip - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Christheclimber:
> (In reply to TRip)
>
> I would have thought Jim Moran would be in top 100???

Who? ;-)
Ian Bentley - on 17 May 2013
In reply to mountassguard: Think you may be taking me a little too seriously! ;-) Tongue was firmly in cheek!
Robert Durran - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Wiley Coyote:
> (In reply to TobyA) Reads like one of those "Greatest films of all time" lists where 80pc are from the last five years.

Yes, the list would make much more sense if an added criterion was that they had to be dead (or at least retired).

metal arms on 17 May 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:

Top 100 climbers from the last 50 years who are already dead.

I like it. Snappy title.
Mark Collins - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Bulls Crack:
> (In reply to Mark Collins)
> [...]
>
> Its no match for Mandarin!

Agreed. Not that I've done it but it does look other Worldly. There are quite a few anomalies at Hoghton in comparison to surrounding venues if not the entire UK. I'm still delighted that something from Lancashire made the grade. There must've been a hell of a fight to get it in.
rustaldo - on 17 May 2013
no rich simpson?
johncoxmysteriously - on 17 May 2013
In reply to rustaldo:

And indeed no Neil Carson. First British 9a, wasn't it?!

jcm
Michael Gordon - on 17 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:

Well as usual for British climbing mags they've neglected Scotland in favour of South of the border. Nothing on the Ben or Creag an Dubh Loch? The main surprise was that this time the Lakes has got the same treatment!

The climbers list though is excellent and well thought out.
snoop6060 - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Michael Gordon:

Its because of the midges, they ruin scotland.
Robert Durran - on 17 May 2013
In reply to snoop6060:
> (In reply to Michael Gordon)
>
> Its because of the midges, they ruin scotland.

You mean like people ruin the Lakes and the Peak?

snoop6060 - on 17 May 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to snoop6060)
> [...]
>
> You mean like people ruin the Lakes and the Peak?

Exactly like that. Swarms of f*ckers ruin everything.
Ian Parnell - on 18 May 2013
In reply to Michael Gordon: Not sure if you realise that 85% of the 100 routes were nominated by readers and 'stars'. For me that makes it a more interesting list than a straight 100 best (which as this thread has shown you'd never get 'right' or please everyone). Worth picking up a copy to find out which route Iain Small thought was 'the best of it's grade anywhere', or which route Northern Highlands Dark Horse Paul Tattersall or Cairngorms pioneer Jules Lines chose.
andyjjj - on 18 May 2013
In reply to TRip:

"Elegy - interesting definition of Peak District"

Why, where is your definition of the Peak District?
Jon Stewart - on 18 May 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to snoop6060)
> [...]
>
> You mean like people ruin the Lakes and the Peak?

Yeah, it's when they bite my face it really gets me.
Graeme Read - on 18 May 2013
In reply to TRip:

Lost Cause THE best route in Northumberland?? Hmm........it's a good route but the best?
Bulls Crack - on 18 May 2013
In reply to andyjjj:
> (In reply to TRip)
>
> "Elegy - interesting definition of Peak District"
>
> Why, where is your definition of the Peak District?

http://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/maps/pdmap

maybe the route itself is exempt?
Robert Durran - on 18 May 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> Yeah, it's when they bite my face it really gets me.

Have things really got that bad down there?

Michael Gordon - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Ian Parnell:

Hmmm, that does sound interesting. Maybe I'll have to buy a copy. I think I could take a good stab at guessing Jules' choice!
Tyler - on 20 May 2013
In reply to TobyA:

Just got a copy, best British climbing mag since the OTE Power and the Glory article! The only person I feel strongly should be in the list is Steve Myres. Great all rounder for the time, since gone on to do some pretty handy alpine routes, brought an indoor wall to Milton Keynes and person most responsible for making North Wales Limestone what it is today
AlanLittle - on 24 May 2013
Denny Moorhouse? Tony Howard? Hugh Banner?

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