In reply to i.munro:
> (In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH)
>
> The problem (at least locally round here) is that most of those also have no knowledge of v-grades.
> What they have is knowledge one of the multiplicity of grading systems used indoors that have the letter V in front (but in which V0 is roughly UK 4a).
Yes, this. People who "know" V grades because their local wall uses them are going to have to relearn the grades when they go outdoors anyway.
I dunno, I'm probably oversimplifying but it just seems like if a few more major guidebooks just stuck to font grades everything would sort itself out fairly quickly. Anyone with half a brain cell would figure out how font grades work within about the first half hour of bouldering with a font guidebook - you could even provide a conversion table for the hard of thinking. You'd then have guidebooks using a single system rather than chopping and changing between font for the wads, V for the punters and UK tech for the bumblies and also have an opportunity to sort out the issues with the lower font grades by picking a system and applying it consistently.
Indoor walls would then have an incentive to start using font grades as well, which would also make it easier for different walls to grade consistently on easier problems as they wouldn't have the problem with grades below UK5a, and also mean that people wouldn't get so confused when they first go outside and find that V3 is actually quite hard.
Then we'd all live in a happy utopia with a single consistent grading system that everyone from Adam Ondra to me can understand and use, and we could all stop bickering about grades and go climbing.
Right, rant over. As you were. I'll shut up now.