/ Public Response to the Woolwich Atrocity

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David Farting-Cameron - on 24 May 2013
This morning I made a donation to Help for Heroes prompted, I admit, by the ghastly murder in Woolwich on Wednesday.

Apparently the H4H website crashed as a result of the sheer numbers of people trying to get on to it.

I believe that this just goes to show that the idiots who commit these acts seriously underestimate the reaction of "Joe Public" in this country. Instead of gaining support from the public all these morons achieve is further alienation - and I'm not referring to the thugs of the EDL. I would like to think that it's a bit of "Blitz" and "Dunkirk" spirit shining through.
In reply to billynoname: TBH, I think of it as an horrendous act committed on a person - son, husband, father - rather than a soldier, or "one of our boys".
David Farting-Cameron - on 24 May 2013
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
> (In reply to billynoname) TBH, I think of it as an horrendous act committed on a person - son, husband, father - rather than a soldier, or "one of our boys".
I know, but my point is that these fanatics do seem to misjudge the way people react to such events. I don't think they generate much, if any, sympathy from the general population.
highclimber - on 24 May 2013
In reply to Submit to Gravity: I was astonished by the amount of racist vitriol that was spouted on my FB feed just because it was a soldier. It really doesn't matter that he was a soldier - he was a human being first, a soldier second. I suspect people wouldn't have been so right-wing had it been a just a 'civilian'.
In reply to billynoname:
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity)
> [...]
> I know, but my point is that these fanatics do seem to misjudge the way people react to such events. I don't think they generate much, if any, sympathy from the general population.

Clearly I don't know, but I think the reaction they got was the one they wanted.
In reply to highclimber:
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity) I was astonished by the amount of racist vitriol that was spouted on my FB feed just because it was a soldier. It really doesn't matter that he was a soldier - he was a human being first, a soldier second. I suspect people wouldn't have been so right-wing had it been a just a 'civilian'.

I saw some of the FB stuff over my wife's shoulder, and found it pretty depressing. I support the armed forces (have been in the cadets and TA), if not some of the causes they are forced to fight, but I think this jingoistic-type support is pretty tribal. It's like people need to see things as a black and white issue, and join what they see as the right side. Which is what the murderers did (in a more violent manner).
The New NickB - on 24 May 2013
In reply to highclimber:

I don't think sympathy is the aim, fear and escalation is what they want, EDL morons play right in to their hands.

Turns out Lee Rigby was local to me and whilst I have no memory of him, I did some tree planting with his class when I worked for Groundwork in the late 90s.
highclimber - on 24 May 2013
In reply to The New NickB:
> (In reply to highclimber)
>
> I don't think sympathy is the aim, fear and escalation is what they want,

That's obvious through the fact they chose to fixate on the soldier element and not the human one. It's pretty shallow.
Richiehill - on 24 May 2013
In reply to billynoname: Whilst I massively commend and thank anyone who gives money to military charities, the best thing this country can do is just go about it's daily business. You can't ignore what has happened but what you can do is pay as little attention to the people that committed the crime as it deserves. They are a small bunch of warped and confused individuals that revel in the limelight and reaction of people like the EDL and wish to serve themselves as "martyrs" to their cause.

They have not achieved what they set out to achieve. Sure, they committed a terrible act against another human, and a soldier at that too, but they will not cause panic, they will not make people scared and our spirit will not waver.

You also get people like the idiot Asghar Bukhari that gave an interview to BBC News trying to drum up "Sympathy" for these people and say that it's because of the terrible treatment of Muslims world wide that is making them turn like this. It's all aimed to encourage extreme movements and responses from the rest of the general population, that just want to get on with their lives, in the opposite direction. So they can justify a revenge attack.

They're ignorant idiots. Nothing more, nothing less. They deserve no news coverage, the unfortunate thing is, the person they killed does.
NorthernGrit - on 24 May 2013
In reply to billynoname:

I may make a donation to MIND as I think that has far more relevance in this case than any political or religious arguments.
Trangia - on 24 May 2013
In reply to billynoname:

The Muslim community in Woolwich has publically condemned the brutal murder and stated that they are criminals first and foremost over being Muslims and should face the maximum under the law
Jim C - on 24 May 2013
In reply to Richiehill:
......They deserve no news coverage, the unfortunate thing is, the person they killed does.......


If only we could have a responsible news programmes that just stated what happened, and then state they would not be reporting anything else unless it was fact , and not endlessly go into wild speculation,. These groups,/ individuals should not get the sensationalist publicity that they want.

Alas, our press are just not like that, they could be said to feed the verybproblem that they report, by the manner that they report it, and by doing so they , arguably, could actually encourage further attacks.
In reply to Jim C:
> (In reply to Richiehill)
> ......They deserve no news coverage, the unfortunate thing is, the person they killed does.......
>
>
> If only we could have a responsible news programmes that just stated what happened, and then state they would not be reporting anything else unless it was fact , and not endlessly go into wild speculation,. These groups,/ individuals should not get the sensationalist publicity that they want.
>
> Alas, our press are just not like that, they could be said to feed the verybproblem that they report, by the manner that they report it, and by doing so they , arguably, could actually encourage further attacks.

I think that phenomenon has already been observed.
Richiehill - on 24 May 2013
In reply to billynoname: But how would news sell news over other news outlets if they were all the same and not "exciting"? :)
Skyfall - on 24 May 2013
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

You do seem to have a bit of an issue with the public recognising the military aspect of this. To be fair, the killers targeted him first and foremost because they thought (correctly) that he was a soldier. So the public are showing their appreciation of his own support of H4H (he was wearing one of their t shirts as I am sure you know) by donating to H4H. In the circumstances, that feels entirely appropriate to me.

Yes, the media feeding frenzy is unseemly and does to an extent achieve the publicity the killers wanted. I also feel that ITV in particular way overstepped the mark in showing the video footage it did. I assumed it would quickly realise its mistake and pull it from future new bulletins but, much to my surprise, it didn't. I hope they get a solid ticking off for that. However, personally, I don't think that means we should look down on the public for wanting to do something positive and donate to a related charity. In fact, I do think it is a remarkably positive thing to come out of it (more so than the calls for people to wear poppies for example).
quirky - on 24 May 2013
In reply to Skyfall: An horrific event no doubt. As an ex service man myself i have to agree with others above, human being first soldier second. same goes for the perpetrators, i fail to see the religious link, i see it the same as the guy who beheaded the British woman in Spain last year, a psycho who did because the voices told him to do it. Too much is being attached to the military and islam aspect when in truth what happened was a barbaric act on anotger himan being by two evil men. The media never miss an opportunity to fuel the fire.
Skyfall - on 24 May 2013
In reply to quirky:

Interesting and I respect everyone's views (and I do come from a military family myself). However, whilst I absolutely agree that this unfortunate soul was a human being first, he was targeted purely because he was correctly perceived to be a soldier. That seems to be almost without doubt. Therefore, I can fully understand why people are viewing it as they do and donating to a charity linked to the military. I know I'm just repeating myself here, but that seems to be a pretty positive thing to come out of it, all things considered.

When a climber is killed, and we want to show some support, we tend to donate to MRT's. No one says "ah but he was a human first". We tend to feel that the individual died doing something they loved and show support in an appropriate way. I can see a parallel.
highclimber - on 24 May 2013
In reply to Skyfall:
> (In reply to quirky)
>
>
>
> When a climber is killed, and we want to show some support, we tend to donate to MRT's. No one says "ah but he was a human first". We tend to feel that the individual died doing something they loved and show support in an appropriate way. I can see a parallel.

How can you compare a person being brutally murdered in broad daylight to a climber dying climbing?
quirky - on 24 May 2013
In reply to Skyfall: I can see the relevance of donating to an apt charity, i just think the media are having yet another field day. People wear tin foil hats as they believe the government are trying to control us..the government are just a side show compared with what the media is doing!
mark s - on 24 May 2013
In reply to billynoname: http://truthfrequencyradio.com/exclusive-london-beheading-hoax-confirmed/

have a look at the conspiracy nutters view on it
highclimber - on 24 May 2013
In reply to mark s: Well, that's me convinced. A conspiracy it is then!
How did I not see all those clues in the footage!
quirky - on 24 May 2013
In reply to mark s: Thats me sold on that theory... anyone got any spare tin foil??
andyathome - on 24 May 2013
In reply to billynoname:
> This morning I made a donation to Help for Heroes prompted, I admit, by the ghastly murder in Woolwich on Wednesday.
>
> Apparently the H4H website crashed as a result of the sheer numbers of people trying to get on to it.
>
> I believe that this just goes to show that the idiots who commit these acts seriously underestimate the reaction of "Joe Public" in this country. Instead of gaining support from the public all these morons achieve is further alienation - and I'm not referring to the thugs of the EDL. I would like to think that it's a bit of "Blitz" and "Dunkirk" spirit shining through.

But is there not just a bit of 'strangeness' that the public have to give charitable contributions to aid the rehabilitation of people who were injured in the service of this country? Just WTF is going on when injured service personnel are 'charity' cases?

And how does your contribution to aiding somebody who's lost a limb in Helmand address the issues here?

And, of course, from another perspective, our service personnel were injured whilst they were invading and oppressing another country where they had no right to be.

I think that we all try to do what we see to be as 'right' (apart from the psychopath and the politician) but our conceptions of what is 'right' is so conditional. I am sure that the people who attacked the soldier thought that what they were doing was 'right'.
quirky - on 24 May 2013
In reply to andyathome:
>

I am with you on that one.... how the hell has it come to be that a rehabiitation of soldiers injured in the line of duty are the cause of "charity"?? A piss take of the highest order. The government send them to do their bidding then the resposibility lies with them...not charity. (2 glasses of red in s appologise for spelling....not sure what my excuse is the rest of the time).
Skyfall - on 24 May 2013
In reply to highclimber:

I was trying to make a comparison that people could relate to. I have, I think, been very respectful of differing opinions. I don't think the manner of the death is what is important in my comparison, I was simply trying to show how people pay their respects by donating to something related to the individual. The chap in this case clearly loved his soldiering and supported H4H - hence I see why people want to donate to that to pay their respects and show some support in an appropriate way, As I said, I see a parallel with people donating to MRT's when a climber dies.

This is all a bit odd. I'm responding to the OP in a sense, you lot are arguing about something else ie. media response. The two aren't the same.

This is all v UKC and I keep backing away from posting because people on here don't seem capable of listening to other viewpoints and become offended and angry at the drop of a hat. I will retreat again....
doz generale - on 24 May 2013
In reply to billynoname:

The aim of this attack was to cause a rift between Muslims and the rest of the population in the UK, it seems to have had the desired effect
David Martin - on 24 May 2013
In reply to billynoname:

I'm not sure the two guys expected support from anyone, except perhaps the few extremists who already thought murdering anyone in the street was a good idea.

They simply went out looking for trouble.
Richiehill - on 24 May 2013
In reply to highclimber: But it says confirmed at the end of the title. That means it HAS to be true...
Richiehill - on 24 May 2013
In reply to doz generale:
> (In reply to billynoname)
>
> The aim of this attack was to cause a rift between Muslims and the rest of the population in the UK, it seems to have had the desired effect

I don't think it has in the slightest. Events like this always bring communities together. The Muslim Community has condemned it and if anything they'll bore likely to do something about future events if they receive prior tip offs and knowledge.

The only people that seem to be wanting to drive a wedge between the vast majority of the Muslim Community and every other person in the UK are the idiots that are in the EDL.

The biggest problems that I have for future incidents are if the EDL retaliate, and allow these extremists to justify their attack. That and a greater majority of ignorant people jumping on the BNP bandwagon and voting for them to "express their displeasure". I do think that is a real and present danger; people not interested in politics happy to try and blame "the others" for everything that is wrong in the country, when in reality they haven't a clue what they're on about.

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