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In reply to ericinbristol:
Quote:
One further suggestion is for the Nepali authorities to vet climbers to ensure they have a basic level of competence.
"We must be inclusive but Mount Everest is not a place for training people who only know ice as cubes in a glass in how to use an ice axe and crampons," said Vrijlandt, the UIAA president.
Let's hope that's what comes of this. I think that would make things safer for everyone on the mountain.
Quote:
One further suggestion is for the Nepali authorities to vet climbers to ensure they have a basic level of competence.
"We must be inclusive but Mount Everest is not a place for training people who only know ice as cubes in a glass in how to use an ice axe and crampons," said Vrijlandt, the UIAA president.
Let's hope that's what comes of this. I think that would make things safer for everyone on the mountain.
In reply to ericinbristol:
Why not. It's normal on other tourist via ferratas. Is the one on the Second Step from the Chinese "ascent" of the North ridge still there?
Why not. It's normal on other tourist via ferratas. Is the one on the Second Step from the Chinese "ascent" of the North ridge still there?
In reply to ericinbristol:
from the ice fall might be a good idea
from the ice fall might be a good idea
In reply to koolkat:
What they need is a big suspension bridge over the icefall and a shuttle bus (electric of course - environmentally friendly)
What they need is a big suspension bridge over the icefall and a shuttle bus (electric of course - environmentally friendly)
In reply to ericinbristol:
Excellent idea, but first can we have a hand rail installed on Crib Goch as that surely must get more annual acents?
Excellent idea, but first can we have a hand rail installed on Crib Goch as that surely must get more annual acents?
In reply to ericinbristol: We could just just turn Tower Ridge into a Via Ferrata whilst we're at it too.
In reply to ericinbristol:
Episode 329 of The Everest Circus
Episode 329 of The Everest Circus
In reply to koolkat: Which would turn three pebble slab into its rightful grade of VDiff.
In reply to Beat me to it!:
As I understand an over 80 has recently 'climbed' Everest, maybe a stair lift is needed to cater for this type of client
> (In reply to ericinbristol)
>
> Maybe just put in a gondola and be done with it.
>
> Maybe just put in a gondola and be done with it.
As I understand an over 80 has recently 'climbed' Everest, maybe a stair lift is needed to cater for this type of client
In reply to Beat me to it!:
Your name is prophetic. That is exactly what I was going to suggest.
> Maybe just put in a gondola and be done with it.
Your name is prophetic. That is exactly what I was going to suggest.
In reply to ericinbristol: Why dont they get Stannah to install a stair lift? They could then use it as a brilliant TV advert.
RN
RN
In reply to rossn: A lovely Funicular like on Cairn Gorm and then a visitors centre to pay for it?
In reply to Beat me to it!:
A gondola would be unsightly, what about a funicular from base camp to the summit.
An independent report should recommend that people shouldn't be allowed to wonder about ill-equipped just to make sure they don't get lost or hurt
> (In reply to ericinbristol)
> Maybe just put in a gondola and be done with it.
> Maybe just put in a gondola and be done with it.
A gondola would be unsightly, what about a funicular from base camp to the summit.
An independent report should recommend that people shouldn't be allowed to wonder about ill-equipped just to make sure they don't get lost or hurt
In reply to puppythedog:
great minds
> (In reply to rossn) A lovely Funicular like on Cairn Gorm and then a visitors centre to pay for it?
great minds
In reply to ericinbristol: Its easy to make light of this ,but its so crap from a climbing point of view..I hasten to add in my opinion...
> (In reply to victorclimber)
> Agreed. I see ridicule as one way of emphasising its crapness.
> Agreed. I see ridicule as one way of emphasising its crapness.
I totally agree, what happened to a leader and second climbing (alpine style), but I suppose to may people died climbing the major peaks that way.
It's safer to underpaying third world people to fix ropes and then having fights with them about who is doing what on the mountain is so civilised. and then allowing "Mountaineers" with more money than skill to jumar up those fixed lines to become the 300th person that year to top out on the summit is so the way to go.
Personally I know I am not good enough to climb that hard a mountain, but in my opinion the second I took up Sou'wester Slabs on Saturday is more about climbing then most of the people who pay between $50-$70k who climb Everest.
again, that is my opinion
In reply to AlanLittle: sort of, Conrad anker and Leo houlding's 2007 expedition replaced it with a new one as part of the caveat on being allowed to free climb the step, so it should be there for a while yet...
In reply to Beat me to it!:
To much like hard work!
> (In reply to ericinbristol)
>
> Of course a cargo net would be more fun..
>
> Of course a cargo net would be more fun..
To much like hard work!
In reply to ericinbristol:
Still sounds too much like hard work. I'm not going to bother until they finish the cafe and railway.
Still sounds too much like hard work. I'm not going to bother until they finish the cafe and railway.
They could tunnel in to the mountain from near the foot of the Hilary Step and install an Otis lift to take people to the summit, like the one you can take to the summit of the Kleine Matterhorn from the top station of the cable car. At least it would leave the Step itself free for people to climb if they wanted to...
In reply to ericinbristol: There are thick, school gymnasium-style fixed ropes on places such as the Eiger Mittelegi Ridge. the Matterhorn and the Dent de Geant. All great mountains, all years ago despoiled, mainly to facilitate guides taking clients up their normal routes. The Hornli on the Matterhorn primarily exists now as a business. If that is acceptable, then they might as well stick the ladder up on Everest too. Just as one can still do the Zmutt on the Matterhorn, I suppose there will always be the Kangshung Face.
In reply to ericinbristol:
I'm surprised there's not one already given all the fixed ropes and ladders, camps and O2 dumps on the approach.
Who are they kidding to say, it would only be used on the descent to preserve the climbing challenge. What's wrong with a short abseil or lower. If you are going to install a one way rope system you might as well install up ladders and down ladders along with the extra fees for using them and for making video calls from the summit! See the Hughes 'Red Nose' fiasco at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22681414
Seems to be a lot of unpleasant stuff going on between the Expedition operators, Nepal Gov, Sherpas and Western climbers and sanctions or worse placed on anyone who speaks out. Not good at all
I'm surprised there's not one already given all the fixed ropes and ladders, camps and O2 dumps on the approach.
Who are they kidding to say, it would only be used on the descent to preserve the climbing challenge. What's wrong with a short abseil or lower. If you are going to install a one way rope system you might as well install up ladders and down ladders along with the extra fees for using them and for making video calls from the summit! See the Hughes 'Red Nose' fiasco at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22681414
Seems to be a lot of unpleasant stuff going on between the Expedition operators, Nepal Gov, Sherpas and Western climbers and sanctions or worse placed on anyone who speaks out. Not good at all
In reply to Strachan:
The old one is now in a museum, apparently: http://english.cri.cn/2886/2008/05/28/1042@362958.htm
If this article http://www.mounteverest.net/story/EverestNorthStairwaytothesummitApr262005.... is to be believed, the idea of a ladder on the Hillary Step is by no means new. And the via ferrata suggestion has also been aired already:
“Kari Kobler and Russell Brice are pictured at ABC – check the picture - with the best of the Hilti bolting technology: A 36V cordless hammer drill capable of sinking a 16mm diameter bolt into the summit ridge of Everest. A battery pack can be worn under the down suit, allowing the battery to stay warm enough to drill more than 100 holes. The plan is to use the drill to fix 10mm bolts.”
“Kari wants to fix “Via Ferrata Style” 150mm long “step bolts” onto the second and first step to speed up the climbing for everyone.”
Mind you, the April 26th date of that article, coupled with the fact that the source of the story is an Australian with an impish grin, makes me wonder (hope?) that someone at Base Camp might have been pulling someone else's leg a bit a few weeks previously...
> (In reply to AlanLittle) sort of, Conrad anker and Leo houlding's 2007 expedition replaced it with a new one
The old one is now in a museum, apparently: http://english.cri.cn/2886/2008/05/28/1042@362958.htm
If this article http://www.mounteverest.net/story/EverestNorthStairwaytothesummitApr262005.... is to be believed, the idea of a ladder on the Hillary Step is by no means new. And the via ferrata suggestion has also been aired already:
“Kari Kobler and Russell Brice are pictured at ABC – check the picture - with the best of the Hilti bolting technology: A 36V cordless hammer drill capable of sinking a 16mm diameter bolt into the summit ridge of Everest. A battery pack can be worn under the down suit, allowing the battery to stay warm enough to drill more than 100 holes. The plan is to use the drill to fix 10mm bolts.”
“Kari wants to fix “Via Ferrata Style” 150mm long “step bolts” onto the second and first step to speed up the climbing for everyone.”
Mind you, the April 26th date of that article, coupled with the fact that the source of the story is an Australian with an impish grin, makes me wonder (hope?) that someone at Base Camp might have been pulling someone else's leg a bit a few weeks previously...
In reply to ericinbristol:
Railway tunnel, with a window somewhere in the middle of the Southwest Face Eiger-style.
There's an alternative history SF novel by Kim Stanley Robinson in which the Black Death completely wipes out Europe. In World War One between the Caliphate and the Chinese Empire, the muslims systematically shell the top of Everest in order to knock it down to smaller than K2. That might be a idea; K2 wouldn't draw the crowds to such a degree.
Railway tunnel, with a window somewhere in the middle of the Southwest Face Eiger-style.
There's an alternative history SF novel by Kim Stanley Robinson in which the Black Death completely wipes out Europe. In World War One between the Caliphate and the Chinese Empire, the muslims systematically shell the top of Everest in order to knock it down to smaller than K2. That might be a idea; K2 wouldn't draw the crowds to such a degree.
In reply to ericinbristol:
Seems like a half measure: what they need is a zip line off the summit to eliminate all the descent traffic.
Seems like a half measure: what they need is a zip line off the summit to eliminate all the descent traffic.
In reply to ericinbristol: Just go the whole hog, and fit a Stanna Stairlift up the whole route, with a Zip Wire from the summit for the descent.
Just think how many expeditions the Nepalise authorities could cram onto the mountain then - I mean if it's just about the money, then at least turn it into a proper cash-cow.
Starbucks at Base Camp - in fact why not build a proper town there, because lets be honest, climbing (and I use that term very loosely) Everest these days, is about as far removed from 'climbing' as you can get.
Just think how many expeditions the Nepalise authorities could cram onto the mountain then - I mean if it's just about the money, then at least turn it into a proper cash-cow.
Starbucks at Base Camp - in fact why not build a proper town there, because lets be honest, climbing (and I use that term very loosely) Everest these days, is about as far removed from 'climbing' as you can get.
In reply to Goucho:
Starbucks at basecamp? You lack ambition. Starbucks at the summit, like the cafe at the top of Snowdon.
Starbucks at basecamp? You lack ambition. Starbucks at the summit, like the cafe at the top of Snowdon.
In reply to ericinbristol:
But which country gets the tax revenue?
I think it's more likely thet there will be 2 coffee shops just below the summit, with a costa on one side and a starbucks on the other.
But which country gets the tax revenue?
I think it's more likely thet there will be 2 coffee shops just below the summit, with a costa on one side and a starbucks on the other.
In reply to ericinbristol:
As we are now talking major brands, who would get the double glazing contract?
As we are now talking major brands, who would get the double glazing contract?
In reply to ericinbristol:
If congestion is the issue then Ken Livingstone is the man for the job. A congestion zone is what is required.
If congestion is the issue then Ken Livingstone is the man for the job. A congestion zone is what is required.
In reply to ericinbristol:
Brilliant!
The Hilllary Stepladder-you'll need a H&S course cert to use it.
Brilliant!
The Hilllary Stepladder-you'll need a H&S course cert to use it.
In reply to ericinbristol: who do I get in touch with to airlift a burger van to the summit ?
In reply to ericinbristol: would I need to keep temperature records of my fridges in burger van for authorities ?
In reply to MacKnee:
www.everest.co.uk
> (In reply to ericinbristol)
>
> As we are now talking major brands, who would get the double glazing contract?
>
> As we are now talking major brands, who would get the double glazing contract?
www.everest.co.uk
In reply to ericinbristol: They could all just jump off after they've reached the summit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22698403
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22698403
In reply to Martin1978:
I saw that, and then I saw that he jumped from 7220m - 1600m short of the summit, and not a lot higher than the North Col.
> (In reply to ericinbristol) They could all just jump off after they've reached the summit:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22698403
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22698403
I saw that, and then I saw that he jumped from 7220m - 1600m short of the summit, and not a lot higher than the North Col.
In reply to ericinbristol:
Surely what they really need is TWO ladders, one up one down, to streamline the traffic jams. Presumably they will end up installing at least two steel "ferrata" cables for this purpose.
Surely what they really need is TWO ladders, one up one down, to streamline the traffic jams. Presumably they will end up installing at least two steel "ferrata" cables for this purpose.
In reply to Erstwhile: there's room for THREE- two up, one down..
http://www.supertopo.com/photos/12/82/249692_21638_L.jpg
http://www.supertopo.com/photos/12/82/249692_21638_L.jpg
In reply to malk:
You could rig an up and a down one together with a pulley so that the weight of the person on the down one pulls the person on the up ladder, well, up.
You could rig an up and a down one together with a pulley so that the weight of the person on the down one pulls the person on the up ladder, well, up.
In reply to ericinbristol: combined tactics- i like it
In reply to ericinbristol: Traffic lights?
In reply to Mr. Lee:
Interesting, I've had problems with peizo and even weatherproof matches working at just below 4,000 metres so maybe someone could get sponsorship from an explosives company to set of the highest ever blast of dynamite!!!
> (In reply to ericinbristol)
>
> ...Does dynamite work above 8000m?
>
> ...Does dynamite work above 8000m?
Interesting, I've had problems with peizo and even weatherproof matches working at just below 4,000 metres so maybe someone could get sponsorship from an explosives company to set of the highest ever blast of dynamite!!!
In reply to ericinbristol:
Why not extend that from base camp to the summit and create the Mount Everest funicular!
> (In reply to malk)
>
> You could rig an up and a down one together with a pulley so that the weight of the person on the down one pulls the person on the up ladder, well, up.
>
> You could rig an up and a down one together with a pulley so that the weight of the person on the down one pulls the person on the up ladder, well, up.
Why not extend that from base camp to the summit and create the Mount Everest funicular!
In reply to ericinbristol: I really don't see a problem with this. Fixed ropes run pretty much the full length of the route. When was the last time anyone actually free climbed the Hillary Step? I'm going to make a wild "Armchair Everest Climber" assumption that even at the start of each season that there is enough fixed rope still left to safeguard the addition of a new one.
This seems to be a notorious bottleneck where people get delayed for a long period of time waiting for those coming up and going down. If this ladder helps reduce the bottleneck and thus helps saves lives/fingers/toes, then whats the argument against installation.
For all those folk who are fighting the battle about "Murdering the Challenge", I'm afraid that that battle was lost a long time ago. The final nail was probably when the restrictions were lifted on on the number of climbing teams allowed on Everest in a season.
Everest is a "Cash Cow" to that region and it will be exploited as much as is financially possible. That is life. Unless there is a major change in the number of teams allowed on Everest in a season then fixed Ladders, permanent stone/concrete structures at Basecamp etc are going to come.
No one seems to mind the ski lifts in the Alps, no one seems to mind the Cable Car to the top of the Aig d'Midi (I do mind the idea that people think they've climbed Mont Blanc when they stand on the viewing Platform!), no one seems to mind the fixed ladders down to the Mer de Glace.
I went to the 60th Anniversary show at the RGS yesterday and was appalled when Ms Rebecca Stephens MBE (she has an MBE, yet Stephen Venables has nothing!) kept on describing Everest as a British Mountain. IT IS NOT OUR MOUNTAIN. If it belongs to anyone then it belongs to the country in which it sits. Therefore, does it not ring true that the Nepalese or Tibet/China can do with it what they please. We may not like it, we may ask though our representative at the UIAA to ask for it not to be done but when it comes down to it it's their asset.
In 1936 a couple of German lads and an Englishman (?) climbed a new route on Tryfan. They placed three pegs and there was uproar. The mountain lies in Britain, and at the time it was not the British way to place fixed ironmongery on crags. The route was climbed free and the pegs removed (using a poker from Helyg if I remember correctly by Menlove Edwards). The Germans don't now 'own' that section of Tryfan just because they made the first ascent. The route lies in the UK and belongs to the UK. If the 'Men in Grey Softshells' decide that a fixed ladder is required up Munich Climb then that is a UK decision and does not need to be run past the Germans for permission.
This seems to be a notorious bottleneck where people get delayed for a long period of time waiting for those coming up and going down. If this ladder helps reduce the bottleneck and thus helps saves lives/fingers/toes, then whats the argument against installation.
For all those folk who are fighting the battle about "Murdering the Challenge", I'm afraid that that battle was lost a long time ago. The final nail was probably when the restrictions were lifted on on the number of climbing teams allowed on Everest in a season.
Everest is a "Cash Cow" to that region and it will be exploited as much as is financially possible. That is life. Unless there is a major change in the number of teams allowed on Everest in a season then fixed Ladders, permanent stone/concrete structures at Basecamp etc are going to come.
No one seems to mind the ski lifts in the Alps, no one seems to mind the Cable Car to the top of the Aig d'Midi (I do mind the idea that people think they've climbed Mont Blanc when they stand on the viewing Platform!), no one seems to mind the fixed ladders down to the Mer de Glace.
I went to the 60th Anniversary show at the RGS yesterday and was appalled when Ms Rebecca Stephens MBE (she has an MBE, yet Stephen Venables has nothing!) kept on describing Everest as a British Mountain. IT IS NOT OUR MOUNTAIN. If it belongs to anyone then it belongs to the country in which it sits. Therefore, does it not ring true that the Nepalese or Tibet/China can do with it what they please. We may not like it, we may ask though our representative at the UIAA to ask for it not to be done but when it comes down to it it's their asset.
In 1936 a couple of German lads and an Englishman (?) climbed a new route on Tryfan. They placed three pegs and there was uproar. The mountain lies in Britain, and at the time it was not the British way to place fixed ironmongery on crags. The route was climbed free and the pegs removed (using a poker from Helyg if I remember correctly by Menlove Edwards). The Germans don't now 'own' that section of Tryfan just because they made the first ascent. The route lies in the UK and belongs to the UK. If the 'Men in Grey Softshells' decide that a fixed ladder is required up Munich Climb then that is a UK decision and does not need to be run past the Germans for permission.
In reply to ericinbristol:
Timely
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/06/125-everest-maxed-out/everest-pho...
Timely
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/06/125-everest-maxed-out/everest-pho...
In reply to Jim Walton:
+1
Exactly. Imagine if the Chinese went to great lengths to publicly tell Britain how to look after Stonehenge?
The MBE things just shows how worthless and meaningless those things are in the context of something like climbing. They often go to people who don't deserve them, relative to others who do, but in our little world of climbing it seems even more absurd as we feel the discrepancies more keenly.
> (In reply to ericinbristol)
> I went to the 60th Anniversary show at the RGS yesterday and was appalled when Ms Rebecca Stephens MBE (she has an MBE, yet Stephen Venables has nothing!) kept on describing Everest as a British Mountain. IT IS NOT OUR MOUNTAIN. If it belongs to anyone then it belongs to the country in which it sits. Therefore, does it not ring true that the Nepalese or Tibet/China can do with it what they please.
>
> I went to the 60th Anniversary show at the RGS yesterday and was appalled when Ms Rebecca Stephens MBE (she has an MBE, yet Stephen Venables has nothing!) kept on describing Everest as a British Mountain. IT IS NOT OUR MOUNTAIN. If it belongs to anyone then it belongs to the country in which it sits. Therefore, does it not ring true that the Nepalese or Tibet/China can do with it what they please.
>
+1
Exactly. Imagine if the Chinese went to great lengths to publicly tell Britain how to look after Stonehenge?
The MBE things just shows how worthless and meaningless those things are in the context of something like climbing. They often go to people who don't deserve them, relative to others who do, but in our little world of climbing it seems even more absurd as we feel the discrepancies more keenly.
In reply to tony: re base jump off Everest
Yes, I saw that and was disappointed too it wasn't at least from the summit.
BTW 690m below the level of South Col (7906m)
Yes, I saw that and was disappointed too it wasn't at least from the summit.
BTW 690m below the level of South Col (7906m)
In reply to Stuart (aka brt): I hadn't seen that before. Amazing.
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):
> http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/06/125-everest-maxed-out/everest-photography?source=email_inside&utm_source=NatGeocom&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=inside_20130530&utm_campaign=Content
That picture of the body is the most thought and emotion provoking photo I have seen in a long time. Look at the sheer number of people on the ropes. I don't think for a second that with some team effort that body can not be taken down those lines. I could not live with myself.
That picture of the body is the most thought and emotion provoking photo I have seen in a long time. Look at the sheer number of people on the ropes. I don't think for a second that with some team effort that body can not be taken down those lines. I could not live with myself.
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