/ Techy Turbine question

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Eric9Points - on 03 Jun 2013
I realise this is a long way from climbing but the breadth of knowledge on here never fails to amaze me so I'll give this a go.

I'm looking for some some decent info on turbine design that goes past the standard undergraduate text. I'm looking more for a design guide for an axial flow turbine with incompressible fluid. The undergraduate books I've seen always start with specifying turbine speed and blade angles from which you can work out power output etc. I want something that works the other way round.

Yours hopefully...

andic - on 03 Jun 2013
In reply to Eric9Points:

if you are in sheffield i can lend you a copy of Gas turbine theory
Dan Lane - on 03 Jun 2013
In reply to Eric9Points:
> ...I've seen always start with specifying turbine speed and blade angles from which you can work out power output etc. I want something that works the other way round.
>

I know nothing about turbines, but could you not just rearrange those equations?

Eric9Points - on 03 Jun 2013
In reply to Dan Lane:

Unfortunately not, from the theory that's presented there's always something missing.

Andic - thanks but I don't live remotely near Sheffield.
wintertree - on 03 Jun 2013
In reply to Eric9Points:

In reply to Eric9Points:
> (In reply to Dan Lane)
>
> Unfortunately not, from the theory that's presented there's always something missing.
>
Isn't that because there is no unique solution going the other way round? That is a range covering multiple variables (turbine speed and blade angles) all produce the same power output, such that you can't go backwards without accepting the ambiguity or supplying one of the variables, or linking them together with some other constraint?

Knowing nothing about the actual equations everything I just said could be wrong.
Eric9Points - on 03 Jun 2013
In reply to wintertree:

It seems to be a bit like that, yes.

I guess what I'd really like to see is a worked example to figure out an efficient way of going through the design process.
David Barratt - on 03 Jun 2013
In reply to Eric9Points: I work on the hydrology side of hydropower so don't know a vast amount about the turbines... but the sales engineers are generally pretty helpful. If you get a bit stuck, might be worth sending them an email. http://www.gilkes.com/page/78/Hydropower.htm
woolsack - on 03 Jun 2013
In reply to Eric9Points: When you say you want something that works the other way round you are referring to the rearrangement of the equation not powering the turbine and calculating flow from it?
andic - on 03 Jun 2013
In reply to Eric9Points:

Since everyone else is putting their 2 penneth worth in and muddying the waters...

could you make an estimate or specify power then plot the design equations as a parametric with angle and speed varying to accomodate each other

adam11 - on 03 Jun 2013
In reply to Eric9Points: PM me your Emither address and I'll ask my mate Pash to get in touch. He's a Phd Engineer that works for RR on turbine engines - he may well know. Be warned, I once asked him a simple question about indexing spark plugs on a race engine I was building and got a 72 page document to read!!!
woolsack - on 03 Jun 2013
In reply to andic:
> (In reply to Eric9Points)
>
> Since everyone else is putting their 2 penneth worth in and muddying the waters...
>
> could you make an estimate or specify power then plot the design equations as a parametric with angle and speed varying to accomodate each other

trouble you get posting on a forum....

oh, and last time I checked, gas was compressible
Eric9Points - on 03 Jun 2013
In reply to woolsack:

Yes but not all fluids are gases. I'm not sure I get your point.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the help.

Adam, I'll maybe email your mate.

woolsack - on 03 Jun 2013
In reply to Eric9Points:
> (In reply to woolsack)
>
> Yes but not all fluids are gases. I'm not sure I get your point.
>

You asked for incompressible liquids, andic berated the rest of us for muddying the waters whilst offering you a book on Gas Turbines

Good luck with your search..
andic - on 04 Jun 2013
In reply to woolsack:

What isn't?
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woolsack - on 04 Jun 2013
In reply to andic: fair point!

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