/ NEW ARTICLE: UKC Readership Survey Results

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UKC Articles - on 06 Jun 2013
UKC Readership Survey - forum extra features, 3 kbDuring March and April this year we carried out an extensive Readership survey across both UKClimbing and UKHillwalking.

The response was amazing and this short article has some edited highlights from the UKC Survey data.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=5555

Coel Hellier - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to UKC Articles:

So two thirds of UKC readers are members of either the BMC or the MCofS? I'm amazed!
In reply to UKC Articles: not that it makes any difference to the stats but what is the difference between Crimpvid and Crimpvid.com in the viewing video section?
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

My mistake. Those extra sites all went through with different spellings since they were added in the 'Other' box. Analysing that data is quite tricky since you have to recognise each version of the same thing. You wouldn't believe how many different ways there are to spell Dave MacLeod's name in the blog section!!

Alan
nufkin - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to UKC Articles:

I'm quite surprised at how low the female readership seems to be
Quiddity - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to Coel Hellier:

> So two thirds of UKC readers are members of either the BMC or the MCofS? I'm amazed!

if you read the small print, two thirds of the self-selecting 10% of UKC readers who completed the survey
nufkin - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to Quiddity:

> if you read the small print, two thirds of the self-selecting 10% of UKC readers who completed the survey

Ah. Good point. To my shame, that hadn't even occurred to me
In reply to Quiddity:
> if you read the small print, two thirds of the self-selecting 10% of UKC readers who completed the survey

What is your point here?

Alan
biscuit - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

The original OP said he was amazed that 2/3rds of UKC/UKH users were members of the BMC/MCoS.

Quiddity was quite rightly pointing out that it was only 2/3rds of the people who responded to the survey, not 2/3rds of everyoe who comes on here.

Self selecting as in ( to make a generalisation ) the type of people who are likely to be members of the BMC are also more likely to take part in a survey about UKC i.e. responsible, giving of their time, willing to help etc etc.

What was your point ?
hokkyokusei - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I believe his point is that you can't put a high confidence on the statement 'two thirds of UKC readers are members of either the BMC or the MCofS', because only 10% of UKC readers replied to the poll and, as they weren't randomly selected, that the results suffer from 'self selection bias' ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-selection_bias ).


Quiddity - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I just think you need to be cautious about making inferences, as Coel suggested, about a wider population (2/3 of UKC readers are BMC members) from data that probably has quite high systematic biases resulting from the way the data was collected.

Don't get me wrong, it depends what you want to get out of the survey, if you are conducting it as a market research exercise, and want to know the priorities of your core user base for the purposes of developing the site and UKC as a business, then basing it on the people who use your site the most and can be bothered to fill in a survey seems an entirely reasonable thing to do.

My point is about the usage of statistics - the people who are coming to the stats purely for interest, should be cautious about drawing conclusions that the data does not support - without knowing more about whether there were any biases in the people who completed the survey (and it would be astonishing if there were not, ie. 86% of your responders were male) it is not particularly valid to draw firm conclusions about 'UKC readers' as a whole, or worse, 'UK climbers' despite the temptation to do so.
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
> (In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat)
>
> My mistake. Those extra sites all went through with different spellings since they were added in the 'Other' box. Analysing that data is quite tricky since you have to recognise each version of the same thing. You wouldn't believe how many different ways there are to spell Dave MacLeod's name in the blog section!!
>
> Alan

Your explanation shows it isn't really a mistake, I was curious as to whether there was another site I was missing more than anything. Thanks for the update.
balmybaldwin - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to nufkin:
> (In reply to UKC Articles)
>
> I'm quite surprised at how low the female readership seems to be

Am I missing something here? I can't see anything about male/female readership?
deacondeacon - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: it's the first statistic given :)
Jonny2vests - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to UKC Articles:

Nice to see that common sense has prevailed regarding mobile friendly pages and thread tracking vs. do nothing. Hopefully we'll see some changes in the not too distant future.
Dave Kerr - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to biscuit:
> >
> Self selecting as in ( to make a generalisation ) the type of people who are likely to be members of the BMC are also more likely to take part in a survey about UKC

It's also self selecting in terms of the questions about functionality, useability and moderation because those that don't rate those things at least average have probably already bugg3ered off somewhere else.
Oceanrower - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to UKC Articles: Excellent. 7.5% of 10% of your database are cavers. That's around 4950 people. Do we get our own forum now, please :)
balmybaldwin - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to deacondeacon:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin) it's the first statistic given :)

Doh!
balmybaldwin - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to Jonny2vests:
> (In reply to UKC Articles)
>
> Nice to see that common sense has prevailed regarding mobile friendly pages and thread tracking vs. do nothing. Hopefully we'll see some changes in the not too distant future.

I really dont get this mobile friendly thing. Every mobile ive had in the last 4 years has worked perfectly well.... what is it that is so difficult?
balmybaldwin - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to Oceanrower:
> (In reply to UKC Articles) Excellent. 7.5% of 10% of your database are cavers. That's around 4950 people. Do we get our own forum now, please :)

6600 responses * 7.5% = 495

Even if you extrapolate to the full database, its still only 7.5%.... and I cant remember seeing loads of caving threads cluttering up off belay!
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Michael Gordon - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to biscuit:
> (In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH)
>
> The original OP said he was amazed that 2/3rds of UKC/UKH users were members of the BMC/MCoS.
>
> Quiddity was quite rightly pointing out that it was only 2/3rds of the people who responded to the survey, not 2/3rds of everyoe who comes on here.
>
>

Well that's pretty obvious! How does that make any difference though? I can't see how the data is going to be any different from those who replied to the survey than those who didn't.

Oceanrower - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to Oceanrower)
> [...]
>
> 6600 responses * 7.5% = 495
>
> Even if you extrapolate to the full database, its still only 7.5%.... and I cant remember seeing loads of caving threads cluttering up off belay!

Err, that's why I said 7.5% of 10%
Oceanrower - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to UKC Articles: Also interesting to see that more people lead and boulder indoors than outside.
Sean Kelly - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to Oceanrower:
> (In reply to UKC Articles) Also interesting to see that more people lead and boulder indoors than outside.

Lookking at the empty crags it's what I suspected for a long time!
Jonny2vests - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to Jonny2vests)
> [...]
>
> I really dont get this mobile friendly thing. Every mobile ive had in the last 4 years has worked perfectly well.... what is it that is so difficult?

Perhaps you lack the ability to perceive?
Andrew Mallinson - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to Oceanrower:

...absolutely no surprise there then.....
...go see the empty, overgrown, outdoor crags in Scotland.....
ANdy
In reply to Quiddity:
> I just think you need to be cautious about making inferences, as Coel suggested, about a wider population (2/3 of UKC readers are BMC members) from data that probably has quite high systematic biases resulting from the way the data was collected.

I agree that we need to be cautious about making any cast-iron declarations based on these stats, but I also think there is a big gap between being cautious and making no declarations at all.

A 10% response from any user database is an astonishing return for any survey and people have declared a lot more facts on a far smaller sample elsewhere. Yes, there is an element of self-selecting and, yes, the registered user number of 66,000 is questionable, but the figure of 2/3 of UKC readers being members of the BMC or MCofS doesn't surprise me at all and sounds about what I'd expect. Perhaps the more-occasional visitors who didn't fill out the survey are less likely to be members, but the figure isn't going to be wildly out and I am sure the BMC will be interested in that figure. Also don't forget that we did have some really big prizes on offer for this so it wasn't just altruistic folk who filled it in.

Alan
alasdair19 on 06 Jun 2013
"I can't see how the data is going to be any different from those who replied to the survey than those who didn't."

In reply to Michael Gordon:

imagine there is such a thing as someone who has UKC blocked at work, comes home to a busy house full of kids but uses his spare time to climb....

He hasn't filled it in. no one who visited 6 months ago has filled it in.
Its a self selecting sample, from one internet site, in one time period. For a start go to a wall is it really 4 to one guys to girls? the only true samply is a random one, perhaps someone who knows stats could tell us what can be deduced from the data and with what confidence.

It is a superb, big data set and the BMC MCofS should consider piggy backing next time round as it could be part of a general consultative process outwith there usual channels (and reaching great numbers of non members).

Jonny2vests - on 06 Jun 2013
In reply to alasdair19:

> no one who visited 6 months ago has filled it in.

I visited 6 months ago and I filled it in.
the real slim shady - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to UKC Articles: Have the winners of the prizes been announced yet??
mav - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to UKC Articles:
my personal favourite stat? 0.2% of the (self-selecting, self-consoring) respondees admit to playing golf. I make that 13 people. I'm amazed it's so many..
In reply to the real slim shady:
> (In reply to UKC Articles) Have the winners of the prizes been announced yet??

To decide the prize winners I chose 9 random user ids out of the set of people who had filled out the survey (note - this data was not stored with the answers, it is stored in your user profiles. i.e. answers and profiles aren't connected). I am now going through the process of contacting the winners individually allowing the first one the first pick of the prizes, the second one second pick, etc. I am now down to the 6th prize with 5 having already been claimed.

Unfortunately, some people use email addresses exclusive to UKC and they don't check them so there are two prize winners - Andy Cairns and Dan Reed - who haven't yet claimed their prizes. Their pickings are getting snaffled up by others while I wait.

Alan
pec on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to mav:

> my personal favourite stat? 0.2% of the (self-selecting, self-consoring) respondees admit to playing golf. I make that 13 people. I'm amazed it's so many..>
That's the stat that leapt out at me, quite disturbing really. I hope its not the thin end of a wedge.

john arran - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to pec:

More likely the thin end of the 8 iron.
LeeWood - on 08 Jun 2013
In reply to UKC Articles: Shame more didn't vote for emoticons; for what reason are we denied them?
The Ivanator - on 08 Jun 2013
In reply to pec: I see the table as more of a sexiest sports to partake in list.- golf definitely belongs somewhere adrift, on it's own, at the bottom of the pile. Even lawn bowls is sexier, at least it has a quirky appeal.
wilkesley - on 08 Jun 2013
In reply to LeeWood:

Another thing I would like to see improved is the RSS feed for My Posts, or whatever the correct name is. At the moment you only get notifications for replies to your particular post, rather than the whole thread. It would be good if there was an option to subscribe to an RSS feed for the whole thread, rather than just comments that are a direct reply to your post.
nufkin - on 08 Jun 2013
In reply to The Ivanator:
> (In reply to pec) golf definitely belongs somewhere adrift, on it's own, at the bottom of the pile.

Agreed. I'd have thought more people would admit to via ferrating, though. Not to mention swimming, especially since so many more people seem to surf, and the two are pretty much analogous in my experience
LeeWood - on 12 Jun 2013
In reply to UKC Articles: But only 10% contributed; this is the basis for another survey?! I didn't contribute to this survey and the sad thing is - I should have done, and would have done. News releases rarely interest me and I switch off. Is this be a clue to the 10%?
Tyler - on 12 Jun 2013
In reply to LeeWood:

> (In reply to UKC Articles) Shame more didn't vote for emoticons; for what reason are we denied them?

Because more people didn't vote for them.
ads.ukclimbing.com
cuppatea on 12 Jun 2013
In reply to Tyler:

Ahh! But more than 90% of the UKC readership didn't vote against them.

Sorry to quote you to make my nonsensical point.

It will be interesting to see what changes are made to the forum..
Bertbee - on 12 Jun 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to Jonny2vests)
> [...]
>
> I really dont get this mobile friendly thing. Every mobile ive had in the last 4 years has worked perfectly well.... what is it that is so difficult?

A logbook app would be ace, and I'd pay 2 for it.
Alpcol - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to Bertbee:

UKC survey winner is with us today making his pad!

http://www.alpkit.com/news/ben-dowman-day

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