/ Stitching the tails of the water knot

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mkonca on 07 Jun 2013
Recently, I re-slinged some of my old cams using water knots. But I am aware of the "creeping of the tail" problem so I stitched the ends using a regular sewing machine and cotton thread. I just want to hear people's opinion on this. Can you think of any possible problems? May be the needle going through the sling many times may be an issue???
needvert on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to mkonca:

On a related note, the beer knot is an interesting way to join webbing. Much slower to tie but no tails flapping about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_knot
mkonca on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to needvert: That is surely an elegant way, but what about the slippage? If it does slowly slip like the water know how would you check it? By feeling the tape to make sure the other tail is still inside?
ice.solo - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to mkonca:

regular stitching wont be a problem (thats how sewn slings are joined...). its worth noting it doesnt need a lot of stitching, just a row or two, its not bar tacking.

that said, needverts beer knot is a great one (new to me too). so maybe belt-n-braces it and stitch the tails in that case too.
AlanLittle - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to needvert:
>
> the beer knot is an interesting way to join webbing.

Elegant!

I just stuffed doubled-over short dyneema slings through the stems of my old forged friends. Looks like I should have been more ambitious.



nniff - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to mkonca:

In the days when quick draws were hand tied, mine were all sewn down by hand and that worked well. The only thing you have to watch is that instead of the tails working through, the whole knot will loosen.

A purist may tell you that you should use a ball point needle rather than a sharp needle so as not to cut any fibres, but that will make absouletly no practical difference
CurlyStevo - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to nniff:
Another option is to half hitch the tails and sew them to them selves, slightly bulkier but also probably a bit stronger and creeping doesn't matter as much as the half hitches just tighten slightly. I did all my cams about 5 years ago like this and they are still going strong with no problems.
CurlyStevo - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to needvert:
> (In reply to mkonca)
>
> On a related note, the beer knot is an interesting way to join webbing. Much slower to tie but no tails flapping about.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_knot

I wonder how strong it is? Probably similar to a tape knot, not being able to see the state of the knot properly would worry me though.
Jonny2vests - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to mkonca:

My preferred option is to simply double a 30cm sling. The doubled sling is inserted into some tubed webbing cut to measure which keeps the strands together and protects them too. No knots therefore much stronger and safe to use dyneema.
CurlyStevo - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to Jonny2vests:
but its not so easy to further extend the cam then is it?
Andy Manthorpe on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to mkonca: When I used to tie my own slings, I put a stitch, using strong thread, through the knot on either side, after making sure it was really tight. I've never had one come undone.
Babika - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to mkonca:
I used to just tape the ends with electrical tape or duck tape. After all you're just stopping slippage, it's not a fundamental strength point.

Saves any possible worries about needles and stitches
pdone on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to mkonca:
A Double Fisherman's Knot in normal, tubular tape tightens up well and does not suffer the loosening problem of the Water Knot; you don't need to worry about sewing the ends then.
CurlyStevo - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to pdone:
the tape knots on my cam slings are welded tight, they will never come undone! I very much doubt they slip much now either.
cuppatea on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to Jonny2vests:
> (In reply to mkonca)
>
> .....double a 30cm sling. The doubled sling is inserted into some tubed webbing cut to measure which keeps the strands together and protects them too.

I've thought about doing this. What do you think to stitching the two loops of sling together at the end furthest from the cam?
Just to make sure that both are clipped.
mkonca on 07 Jun 2013
Thanks to everyone who has shared their opinion. The reason I am not doubling up dyneema is because I have some spare webbing. I have to say, after stitching the tape nicely, the bulk is much less noticeable. (I have used 16mm nylon.) Also the webbing I have is not tubular, so no beer knots for me.
Rob Parsons on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to mkonca:

> ... I re-slinged some of my old cams using water knots ... so I stitched the ends using a regular sewing machine and cotton thread

Whether you stitch the ends, or tape them down: make sure you tighten the knot like crazy.

A water knot that loosens up can 'move' along the sling, to very bad consequences. I have personally seen a case where someone was using a sling they had knotted themselves - and on which they had taped down the loose ends - where the knot had moved along the sling past the tape join - so the *only* thing holding that sling together was the tape.

In retrospect this seems almost unbelievable, and utterly careless - but it did happen, and my friend would have been in the shit if he leaned back on the sling, as he was just about to.
CurlyStevo - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to pdone:
"tubular tape tightens up well and does not suffer the loosening problem of the Water Knot;"

that explains it :)
Jonny2vests - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to CurlyStevo:
> (In reply to Jonny2vests)
> but its not so easy to further extend the cam then is it?

Correct. This is a non extendible option.
Jonny2vests - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to cuppatea:
> (In reply to Jonny2vests)
> [...]
>
> I've thought about doing this. What do you think to stitching the two loops of sling together at the end furthest from the cam?
> Just to make sure that both are clipped.

It's not really necessary because you have a krab permanently clipped through the slings which provides an eye for your QuickDraw. It's important not to cut the tube tape too long, otherwise clipping the doubled sling will be tricky.
CurlyStevo - on 07 Jun 2013
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Jonny2vests - on 07 Jun 2013
In reply to CurlyStevo:
> (In reply to Jonny2vests)
> basically this
> http://www.kakibusok.plus.com/Equipment/ReslingCams/Resling.htm

Exactly.

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