/ UKC Fit Club week 327

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Eagle River - on 23 Jun 2013
Well done to Jake for smashing it at the BMC youth champs, it was also good to hear of Norther Clamberer & Needkrakenís day at Almscliff. Also well done to Ally for cruising up an 8a crimp fest at Kilnsey and Nomics for putting WYSIWIG to rest.

UKC Fit Club is not a substitute for the training diary but to use with (or without) it as a motivational tool for all.

For those wanting to find out more about training for climbing a number of physical training articles here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=274502

A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity, noting goals, successes and failures and to swap ideas.

Anyone interested in starting is very welcome but you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits to help achieve your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity.

Link to last week's (326) thread:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=553332

AJM: Nice to hear about some positive contribution with regards to rock clearing, and a decent day out at Cheddar
Mattrm: How is the shoulder? Do you do yoga simply because you like it or because itís beneficial for climbing?
Jougton: Massive congratulations for the comp performance. Really impressive.
Nick Russell: Have the shin splints calmed down yet? Sounds like a similarly frustrating injury to ITBS.
Eagle River: Should really have ticked Biological need by now.
NorthernClamberer: Glad you had such a good time at Almscliff. Any news from the interview?
Mbh: Any more sub 7:30 miles this week?
IainRUK: itís baffling to us mortals what constitutes a normal week for you, If I had a large animal chasing me I might manage 1mile at 6:16 paceÖ.
Needkraken: As with NorthernClamberer itís nice to hear you had a good day at Almscliff. When I lived in leeds it was one of my favorite haunts.
NMN: Any movement on the STG of regular climbing? Weather has been OK for it recently.
Ali: Any more calamitous accidents to report?
Exile: Really nice to hear about the White Ghyll day, sounded ace.
Stevemarkperry: hope Iím not the only one but Iíve no idea what Strava and KOM are, care to enlighten me (please?)!
Sankey: It was a bit midgey at Kilnsey on Sunday! I found direct flight pretty tricky for the grade, Appetite is big but looks brilliant. Yosemite wall looks more straight forward than appetite plus you get the hands off knee lock, just if you wanted another option?
Leon: well don at Chee Tor, sounds like youíve got the right sort or climbing partner.
Jamming Dodger: How is the new cat?
Grubes: Glad you got over to CYL the week previous, it took me about 5 sessions to get into properly but itís a cracking training venue. What are you getting on at Almscliff?
Biscuit: Boo hoo, itís all too hot. Glad to hear your climbing mojo is returning.
Si dH: Sounds like a decent weekend in the Peak, loads of E point mileage.
Maria85:Well done on the three peaks, more impressive is climbing the day after and not sitting about eating all day (which is what I expect Iíd do)
Nomics: Well done for WYSIWYG! Next project, Next project!
Pork pie girl: Good to see youíre still making incremental progress. You must know everyone at the crag these days!
Luke Owens: Any post-holiday blues? Did you get back to Dinbren this week?
C Chestwig: Nice to meet you properly at Kilnsey, well done for Cold Steal.
Useful: How was the wedding? Did you sneak any climbing whilst there?
JimmyKay: Have you been back on Elite Syncopations this week?
Si dH - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River: Morning ER, thanks for doing the stats! Im going out today so will post later. However for everyone - I am free in yorkshire for a day on saturday 13th july and wondering if anyone wants to hook up for a day at malham? Id ideally be keen for terrace/right wing trad, or sport would be a good alternative (want to do space race, happy to spend long belaying perids on other routes if necessary!)
Cheers! :)
Si
stevemarkperry - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

> hope Iím not the only one but Iíve no idea what Strava and KOM are, care to enlighten me (please?)!

Strava ((www.strava.com) is a web app that allows you to track your progress, either cycling or running. You upload your GPS data from your cycling (or running) computer and it shows all of your ride stats etc. There are quite a few similar sites out there but where Strava differs is it's social features and league tables. You can follow 'athletes' on there and comment on others' activities.

The Segments and KOMs (King of Mountain) are where the fun starts. People create Segments of their favourite bits of road / trail. This can be a descent (general Segment) or a hill climb (KOM) and record them into the Strava database. Strava then runs through all registered users' activities and if it finds that you have ridden a created Segment it will place you in time order into a league table for that particular Segment. It's not 100% accurate but it's great fun and can be a good tool for motivating you to try a little bit harder.

So my hill climb Segment was posted by another user and I was automatically placed in second place out of around 10 other riders from my past rides. I wanted the all important first place so I kept on riding that Segment to beat my old (and the first place person's) time.

Incidentally, I received an email from them confirming my Segment time on Thursday and I have beaten first place by over a minute! Old first place time was 8:27 and my fastest is now 7:19! Really chuffed!

Check it out if you enjoy running or cycling, it's great. There's a UKC club on there, of which I'm a member (www.strava.com/clubs/ukc).

Stats coming later when I've decided if I'm too ill to train today or not...
Eagle River - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to stevemarkperry:

Ah, OK. Thanks for the explanation. I'm familiar with KOM from watching the main tours but couldn't see how it would fit into your own personal training. Sounds like a good motivational tool.
Ali - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River: Ta ER - I seem to have survived mainly intack this week, thank goodness (and touch wood!). Wrist is still rather stiff and sore (as is shoulder) so being a bit careful what I do with it.

Very poor week exercise wise, mainly down to work, which has left me rather grumpy. Still feeling completely exhausted and wiped out and generally not really ready to head into another manic week.

M - nothing
T - nothing
W - ran into work ~6.5 miles, 53mins, felt slow and tired
T - nothing (missed wall due to working late)
F - nothing
S - 28min run, quite fast, not sure how far I got
S - ? I have a ton of work and life stuff to do as well as going to a friend's 30th in Cambridge but desperate to fit a run or something in if I can.

Feeling like I need to sort my life out a bit.
biscuit - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

Cheers ER. Yes yes i know it's terrible having to go to shady crags due to the stonkingly good weather.

This week started good and ended bad.

M - Tired from climbing weekend. It's good to be able to say that. Climbing rest day.
Did a very slow run for 45m. Probably about 7k.

T - 2 1/2 hr trail run. Yesterday did me good and shook off the lethargy. 25k ish and a guesstimate of 750m of ascent. Had that lovely feeling of being a running 'machine' (a slow one) just switched off and keeping going at a steady pace.

Board - 4 x 1.30m with 6 min rest. Easy.

W - 8k over undulating trail course 35m. Most sustained i've run for a while. Felt good.

Board - 2x1.30min with 5.30m rest
1x2min with 5.30 rest
1x3min with 5.00 rest

Got bored in the end and felt like i could have carried on for ever. I've really turned a corner with it.

T - Running rest day

Board - 4 x 2min on and 5 min rest. Went to 2m21s on the last set for failure. Still need to drop the rest a bit. Massive gains on the board really looking forward to testing it out.

F - Disaster, got the lurgy
S - Still got the lurgy
S - Still got the lurgy and cried off planned climbing day as need to rest before a hard work week coming up.

So i was supposed to do a 60k week and managed nearly 40k. Missed a board session and most importantly missed climbing today :0(

Ah well ! I am working away from home next week so will have to see what i get up to. There will be climbing involved but stuff in the 5's and low 6's i would think. Possibility of a session Wed or Thur eve. May run a couple of times. Lets see how i feel.

Not sure why i got ill. I have started doing a lot of running, for me, but i felt fine and strong. No chesty cough or cold thank goodness, just achy, headache and general lethargy. Seemed to come out of nowhere Thursday night but should go as quick as it came i hope. Will make sure i improve my diet quality.

On the plus side getting up at 6.30am to run means i am not drinking much/any booze at the moment.
Jamming Dodger on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River: Hang on, I do loads of miles on foot and on the bike and I get "Hows the new cat"??!! ;)
She is gorgeous. Im totally in love with her, even though she is a noisy, demanding little git! She's a Bengal, so thinks she's a dog.
Anyway...
Monday: Got the cat and all her stuff. Played with her. No exercise.
Tuesday: 28 miles bike
Wednesday: 28 miles bike
Thursday: 25 miles bike, 1/2 hr core, 1 hr swim. Really liking the new format for both.
Friday: 28 miles bike.
Saturday: Nothing. Plus lots of cake and wine.
Sunday: 10 mile run.
Unintentionally did less running this week.
Ill try do lots tomorrow cause im having an op on Tuesday so dont expect anything reported for the next couple of weeks.
In the words of The Terminator: I'll be back.
AJM - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

> AJM: Nice to hear about some positive contribution with regards to rock clearing, and a decent day out at Cheddar

Cheers Steve.

Bit of a mixed up week really this week.

Wednesday at High Tor I did Robert Brown, so another E3 in the bag. Very close to the ten I wanted to do this year now (plus try some E4s), 8 E3s and 2 E4s now. After that though we both had a pretty simultaneous crash on the mojo front, so I didn't get much else done for the remainder of the day or Thursday either. Went home Thursday in the end as we figured hanging round for Friday wouldn't achieve much.

Friday I went to Cheddar. Dogged the usual 7a+ to warm up and get the clips into right hand man. Worked out the top section that I'd forgotten, totally different to last time but how on earth did I miss that sequence - funny old world. Sorted out the bottom too - I had the right holds last time I just needed to lean right out off the edge of a little undercut rather than jamming my fingers into the back of it in order to reach the big undercut out right.

So I had a couple of lead goes. Best effort purely from the ground was getting move 3 of the crux but just not quite having the hold right so being unable to do the next move. Next go I'd left the second pre clipped (first is so high its a faff to get it to pull through if any, and I do mean any, of the other bolts are clipped!) and managed to stick move 4, although neither hold was as solid as I'd have liked. Third go power for the crux had gone so I clipped the post crux clip and led the top headwall, albeit in two because of some rope jamming antics.

So I'm on lead from the ground now, which is dangerously close to admitting to myself I'm on redpoint. I've got one last thing really I'd like to experiment with on the crux but otherwise I can't see at the moment why the sequence needs to change more unless some moves become undoable on redpoint when I'm tired.

Weekend has been about restocking my brownie point counter - I'm away the second half of next week in Cornwall so some topping up is always good! Oh and I guess I've had 2 days where I've each done about 6 miles of walking for one reason or the other.

After I get back from Cornwall I'm going to sport climb more. Potential trip to Loup if I'm still unemployed at the start of September and so I ought to train like I'm going even if it doesn't actually happen as it'll be a bit of a shit trip if I go out unfit! Focus on some hard moves bouldering, my long boulder link at Huntsham, Right Hand Man and any other high 7s that come my way. Hopefully some midweek trips to Kilnsey or LPT too.

<For anyone who wants my descriptions of the route to make sense right hand man breaks down as follows:
Easy bridging up a groove to a very high first bolt leads to a few trickier moves shuffling hands and feet in order to stretch out right to a good undercut at about eye level, with some strenuous walking across of the feet to get established before stretching up high to strenuously clip an extended second clip.
From said undercut I've got 7 hand movements plus foot fiddling until my hands are on the lip of the bulge on some marginally better but still small holds. Third clip from here.
Stupid monstrously high feet rockover for the eighth hand movement which if you catch the sidepull above ends what I'm thinking of as the crux section. No rest here but if you can plough on for about another 5 moves you get to a rest where you can make a late clip and have a shakeout.
About 8 more moves, a few hard then on jugs, takes you to the chains.>
Eagle River - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Jamming Dodger:
> (In reply to Eagle River) Hang on, I do loads of miles on foot and on the bike and I get "Hows the new cat"??!! ;)


Ha ha, sorry! As someone who does very little except climb I have a tendency to skim-read the running/biking bits and focus on climbing or other life news, hence the cat comment.

Eagle River - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

Goal: Good Kilnsey 7c-8as

Tues: Kilnsey evening session. Biological Need again, getting through to the crux from the ground more often but wasn't climbing well. Still, good session in terms of being knackered at the end of it.

Thurs: Believed the forecast (for rain) so went indoors to boulder. It didn't rain till 9pm so could've got out.

Sun: Routes indoors. Stamina fest doubling up on routes every go doing the slightly easier route first a harder one second thinking that I needed to spend time pulling through hard moves when already pumped. Good session.

Got tues off work so I'm off to Kilnsey, really hope to get at least 1 move through the crux from the floor on Biological instead of just falling off there.
mbh - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

Here's one for you to skim-read!

M: 10.4 m
T: nothing
W: am 5 m, pm 4.4 m. 3 min off the PB for this route which I have done about 70 times.
T: 5.1 m
F: 7 .6 m
S: 10 m, 2 km swim
S: 12 m, fartlek style. Did the first 10 m in 1:17:20

54 ish miles, with 12 of them sub 7:30, which ticks the STG, 5 of them under 7:00 pace. My third consecutive week of 50-55 miles running.This week seems to be telling me that I can go faster if I set goals and go for them. I am not sure how much longer I can keep up this mileage, but combining it with some speed work seems to be paying dividends, on the back of 1000 miles since the new year. Next STG is 10 miles in 1:15, which I will try to do at a steady 7:25-7:30 pace, if I can work out how to program the Garmin to help me keep to that. Since the "fast" miles of today's run all turned out to be at 7:00 ish pace, perhaps that won't seem so hard.

I am now entered for the Roseland August trail, 32 miles of Roseland coastpath in, er, August.
stevemarkperry - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

Cheers ER.

Got my Strava KOM confirmed. Winning time was 8:27, my best time is now 7:19. Chuffed.

Not a great week for training due to social stuff and lurgy.


Goals:

Get weight back down to around 142 lbs before 23rd June: Currently 147
Re-strengthen core and upper body
Churnet 7A (a solid-at-the-grade is still elusive!)
MTB fitness increase with consistent riding


This Week:

M: Rest
T: 15km mountain bike ride, easy and flat to spin my legs out from Sunday's hill climb. / Core workout / Upper body workout
W: Walk and a quick climb, mostly a rest day.
T: Pushups / 1.5hrs moshing to Danzig/Misfits and The Black Spiders n/
F: Nothing (tired from last night)
S: Attack of the lurgy (hence the tiredness yesterday)
S: Some basic strength work but not a full workout, mainly fighting off the lurgy


Core Session: Leg Lifts 3x12 (1 min rest). Banana Boats 3x12 (1 min rest). Swimming 3x1 min. Superman 3x1 min. L Plank 3x30 secs. R Plank 3x30 secs. F Plank 3x30 secs.
Upper Body Session: Push Ups 4x12 (1 min rest). Pull Ups 4x8 (1 min rest). Reverse Wrist Curls 4x12 (1 min rest). Chair Dips 4x12 (1 min rest).
Needkraken - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River: Thanks =) yea I had a great day out at Almscliff, first time I've enjoyed myself there (which may be something to do with the fact it wasn't so cold/windy) I always seem to find grades tough there!

This week hasn't been the best training wise, was all geared up for a big day out yesterday so haven't pushed it this week...then the weather turned and I ended up at Malham instead

Goals;
STG - boulder more 6a's , get more confident outdoors, lead S by choice , keep the psyche, second whatever my friends climb & lead every session I can
MTG - 6b sport, lead HS without screaming tooooooooo much , get psyche to lead routes I chose
LTG - to feel I can push myself on lead, be stronger, find routes I really want to do, make a wishlist by the end of the year

M: Band; still doing lots of marching practice so at least I'm doing stuff
T: lazy
W: Went up to Wimberry rocks, very warm! Only ticked one new problem, finding it so frustrating right now that I can't seem to push it into that next level even though I've been working on it
T: Friends birthday, ate amazing food
F: Should've done something after learning that sat wouldn't happen but instead laziness won (I'm not doing well at this =p)
S: Went to Malham, as predicted it was a little above me but I got something done. Worked on Begozi (6a+) with the aim of redpointing it, top-roped clean on 3rd attempt but I didn't feel I could lead it [could do with working on that aspect of my sport climbing]. Had a top-rope play on Puddle jumper and Rose Coronary (both 7a) I surprised myself a little by being able to do parts of each route. 7a is still a long way away but doesn't seem un-obtainable.
S: Had a band gig at 2 so meant I couldn't easily get in a session before or after

So, basically I could have done more this week and there's been a lot of frustration. Not completely sure how I can get the push bouldering that I need as my trad seems to be doing well. The issue with not feeling like I can try things (and fall maybe) on sport is just going to be something that needs time, like starting to enjoy trad leading, obviously need to climb a bit more sport as well...basically more climbing =p
Si dH - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

Thanks ER. Last weekend was great. Not got much done outside this week but its been positive from a training perspective I think. Diet is still going well. Seem to have lost about 3 lb in the fortnight so far which I'm pleased with.

Goals for 2013:
Grit: 8 E2s, 4 E3s in 2013 (so far 6 E2s, 3 E3s) (excluding snowballing!)
Peak lime: 10 E2s, 5 E3s in 2013 (so far 1 E2, 4 E3s)
Elsewhere: 8 E2s, 4 E3s in 2013 (so far 3 E2s, 2 E3s)
Overall that would be 91 E-points...let's chuck in 9 E1s and make it 100 :)

Sport: 2 7b+s to keep my hand in, ideally Brachiation Dance and Space Race but I'm not holding myself to those - too conditions, travel and partner-dependent.

M: Fingerboard. Good long session, doing some pocketwork and then some foot-on to traing some endurance.
T: Meant to go to Climbing Station but was shattered after work and got home late. Did a short fingerboard session instead, focussing on foot-on for endurance again.
W: Rest
T: Routes at Alter Rock. Really good session. Onsighted a 6c, a 7a and a 7b that was actually only about 6c+, then did some laps on the 7b (6c+) for stamina training: lead up it, lower off, top rope up (taking out draws), lower off, top rope up , lower off. I didnt manage to complete this set-up but I think I could do, and it felt like good training.
F: Rest
S: Rest
S: Raven Tor. Tried Tin Off. Got a bit spankedreally considering it only gets 7b; taught me I've been doing too much trad and forgotten how to pull hard. Had 4 goes in total, on the 4th I finally felt good on it. but then missed my foothold on the crux, had to readjust and couldnt pull through. I hope it should go next time if I get on it when fresh and war - today was baltic, I was cold and stiff all day. So, no tickage but it was a good route, first time at Raven Tor and if nothing else was definitely more good training.

No-one for Malham in July yet then?

Si
grubes - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River: cheers mate. Flying arÍte my quick tick from November ... And crucifix low and original

STG (July 2013):
Sort out Squamish accomadation - think so need to check
Regularly try and lead cracks and committing laybacks
Climb on gogarth
Climb on the cromlech
Lead E2 try onsight
MTG (End of 2013):
Top out the chief
Boulder 7A/V6 UK and try get one in Squamish.
Climb Grand wall at squamish
E3/4
Plan a font trip - almost sorted but think my second one will be postponed for a kaly trip

M: tried to boulder at buckstones forgot my shoes tried a 5 in trainers but foot slipped. Walked a bit
T:rest
W: legs felt very weak. Walked up to wimberry crag which seemed to help.
Bouldered a little did a 5 repeat then flailed on a 6A and 5+ again
T: rest
F: rest
S: birthday. Went to malham. Warmed up onsighting begosi. Bolt to bolted consenting to talk a mate through the moves and set draws. Tried hartley hare on lead felt hard got all moves but crux felt a killer. Rested. Tried Hartley again tried to rp blew the crux dogged next couple of moves came down. Got straight on puddle jumper to set draws and show a mate the moves. Dogged up to the run out. Came down exhausted. Rested.
One more blast at Hartley. Fell on crux weird cramp kicked in. Dogged way to the top. Rested. Reclimbed begozi to strip draws.rested. tried to top rope rose but arm cramped badly. Was terminal for my strength so hauled to collect draws.
Quick drink at pub in malham.
Drove home and went out for a meal. Age epic burger see face book all that have me ...
S: depot two hours pretty blasted from malham still.

Next week's goals:
Trad

Not a bad week except being older.
Arm cramp at malham was weird need to drink more water.
mattrm - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

Thanks for doing FC. I do the yoga partly cause I like it, but mainly because it's good for climbing. Least I think it is. Can't say that I've been doing it long enough to notice massive gains, but spending an hour or so a week focusing on flexibility and core seems like a good idea to me. Also the wife does it and it's a nice thing to do together. So yeah, I'd definitely recommend it. I can't think of a male climber who I've ever seen who I've thought 'they're as flexible as they can be no need for them to be more flexible'. But I did see a friends daughter (who did do Yoga) pull off an amazing mantle. She put her foot in a position I could never make in a month of Sundays and did the move. I managed to do the same move, but in a totally different (and more strenuous fashion).

STG - Climb 6b (or v3) @ wall, 11st 7lbs
Aspirational - Climb E5/6 (London Wall), Scottish Winter V (Point 5, Zero, Minus etc), WI5, Redpoint 8a, UTMB/Lakes 100, stay injury free & maintain 11st
3 core/yoga, 1 climb, 1 run, eat well, fingerboard (2/3, two!, no, okish, no) - same goals for next week

Weight - 11st 12lbs (1lbs gain)

M - Rest
T - 45 mins bouldering at Ogmore
W - 1.5h Yoga
T - 30 mins yoga and core
F - 2hrs bouldering @ wall
S - Wedding
S - 3hrs in Garden

Really good week. Lots of bouldering and yoga. Had a good weekend, went to a friend's wedding. Spent most of today in the garden, digging, cutting logs etc. Pretty tired. Need to eat properly next week.

Goals:

3 core/yoga
1 good climb (ideally a days trad) + 1 boulder if poss
1 run (10k)
proper diet
put up fingerboard
Exile - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

Yep, really good

Best efforts outdoors last year:
RP - 7a
HP - E5 6b
Boulder - V4
Onsigth E2/3,
Winter VI 6

Goals for this Spring:
Boulder V7 - tick
RP - 7a+ - tick
HP - E6 - not yet, may wait until the Autumn

Summer
Onsight more E3s leading to an E4 onsight.

This weeks focus: Away with work so just keep fit

Weeks training:

M: Evening: 30min hill reps & 10min core
T: 1hr PE traverses at wall
W: 3hr climbing. Waste Not Want Not, E1*** 5b, and Do Not Direct, E1** 5b, 5a, on White Ghyll. It's great that E1 feels so easy now - should get my mojo back for some E3s!
T: Morning: 45min continual traversing on 6b+. Good endurance and finger work out after pulling on jugs last night
F: Rest
S: Wife dead keen to go climbing, (she's rediscovered it this Summer and our boys were at their grand parents,) but weather didn't play ball. Just managed Fishers Folly, VS*** 4c, 4c at Shepherds.
S: 1hr PE traverses at wall. 3hrs riding around and playing on sections of the MTB Red Route at Gisburn with my wife before picking the kids up.

Traverses at the wall are showing me how much harder I can climb than the E1s I did this week. Should put myself back on some E3s. Not going to be able to climb in the evening this week though so will have to wait a little!
AJM - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to mattrm:

> I do the yoga partly cause I like it, but mainly because it's good for climbing. Least I think it is. Can't say that I've been doing it long enough to notice massive gains, but spending an hour or so a week focusing on flexibility and core seems like a good idea to me.

I think with supplementary things like yoga it depends what else you could be doing in that time - if its yoga vs watching TV then it can only be beneficial, if its yoga vs bouldering or fingerboard or something similarly more climbing relevant then you need to decide whether flexibility is more of a limiting factor than technique/footwork/strength/whatever.

Btw, this coming week is the last one in which ie currently got major climbing plans so if you wanted to try and do something midweek then any time after this week could work.
mattrm - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to AJM:
> (In reply to mattrm)
>
> [...]
>
> I think with supplementary things like yoga it depends what else you could be doing in that time - if its yoga vs watching TV then it can only be beneficial, if its yoga vs bouldering or fingerboard or something similarly more climbing relevant then you need to decide whether flexibility is more of a limiting factor than technique/footwork/strength/whatever.
>

Yeah, true. However I think the point about most male climbers lacking flexibility still stands. I would imagine quite of the blokes on FC would find that flexibility is probably a major weakness, they just don't realise it / prioritise it. As we all worry about finger strength and the size of our muscles ;) Again I often see blokes doing foot off stuff at the wall. I then see women doing the same route/problem and they're doing it totally differently. If the bloke had the same power and the extra flexibility, then they'd be climbing much harder. I do enjoy watching others at the wall and seeing how they climb.

Personally I'm quite inflexible, so it's important for me. Finger strength is my other main 'physical' weakness. Currently raw power isn't what's causing me not to be able to do moves.

I've got a couple of climbing mates who do yoga and they've been raving about yoga and how it helps with climbing for years. I always thought they were probably overegging things a bit. But now I've been doing it for a while, I can see that they weren't.

What I would recommend is that you do yoga on a rest day. So if you're doing climbing sessions 3/4 times a week, do the yoga on the rest days. Or it can be done before or even after a session. It's generally quite gentle, so shouldn't be a massive issue even if you're tired.

I wouldn't say it'd be excellent for everyone. And I'm sure that some folks probably wouldn't gain much from it. However I think for a lot of folk, it's well worth doing.

> Btw, this coming week is the last one in which ie currently got major
> climbing plans so if you wanted to try and do something midweek then any > time after this week could work.

I've got plenty of flexi-time built up so should be able to get a day out in the week soon. I can be quite last minute with picking a day off as well. I'll drop you an email and keep an eye on the weather.

Nick Russell on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:
> Nick Russell: Have the shin splints calmed down yet? Sounds like a similarly frustrating injury to ITBS.

Hi ER, thanks for starting. I've been resting the legs this week, with just one very short, slow run as a warm-up on Thursday. I'm starting again (slowly) this week coming, so fingers crossed. It is a very frustrating injury because I've got the fitness to run orders of magnitude more than my legs seem to be able to cope with!

M: Rest
T: nothing, busy at work
W: Climbing in Avon gorge, in some ridiculously high temperatures! A bit annoyed with myself for stepping on a peg on The Mal (E3), but I didn't have the willpower to move my foot at that point!
T: Fingerboard and core. A bit of a beastly session again (at least 2 hours total) but with a proper warm-up I think I didn't suffer too much...
F: Climbing in the gorge again. Lowered off the crux of What's It Called? (E3) then seconded my partner. I don't like backing off but sometimes my head's not in the right place (and I was a bit tired from Thursday)
S: Moving into a new flat. Got the fingerboard up! (photo just uploaded, will post link.) No training though.
S: Unpacking so no exercise

A bit of a slow week. I'm not going to beat myself up about the two E3 failures as I know it's at the upper end of my ability and I have (actually fairly decent) excuses for both of them. Running training starts next week...
NMN - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

Thanks Eagle River.

Yes, I have definitely been getting out again ok.
Not quite regularly onsighting VS / HS though. I've lead 4 VS's so far this year.
Last time I climbed regularly, a few years ago, I was leading consistent VS or HS. It is taking a bit longer than expected to get sort of comfortable at VS again.

It didn't feel like a good running week this week but I managed to get to 6,000 ft ascent which is just ok for a hills week.

Running goals:
Snowdon Race - 1h 35m.
Edale Skyline - 4h.
Ben Nevis Race - 2h 20m.
Half Marathon - 1h 25m.

STG:
Get out climbing again & regularly onsighting VS / HS.
MTG:
Push trad grade.
LTG:
Lead a tough E1.

M: - 2.62m treadmill, 12.5%.
T: - Stanage Popular routes.
W: - 6.63m trail run, 1,938ft.
T: Ė 3.00m mountain bike, 226ft.
F: - Stanage End routes.
S: - 3.04m hills, 1,771ft.
S: - 3.89m hills, 2,437ft.
mrchewy - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to mattrm: Interesting you find it so beneficial. - recently finished six weeks of PE training and mentioned to Alex Fry that now I can hold on better, I can tell my footwork's crap. His reply was "your footwork is fine, it's your flexibility you need to work on". He's right of course. A lad down the wall is gonna run through some yoga stuff with me soon, hopefully it will help.
AJM - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to mattrm:

I've only ever thought flexibility was the crucial thing stopping me from doing a move once (and even then it turned out that by not getting so stretched out the move required less flexibility and was easier anyway), whereas I've lost track of how often I've failed to do a move because of lack of finger strength, shoulder power, technique, lead head, and that sort of thing. Yes, flexibility is a weakness for me in that I'm as stiff as an iron bar, but then I've got a long list of things I could improve on as a climber so whilst its a weakness its in no way a major weakness that I feel I need to prioritise - the sort of thing to do on rest days, as you say, but not a major enough weakness to devote time to above more relevant climbing training. I don't doubt that doing yoga would make me a better climber, I just don't think it would make me a better climber as fast as fingerboarding will for example.

"Lacking flexibility" implies a benchmark level of flexibility for a particular climbing level and I think that actually the benchmark is very low for 99% or more of all moves. Theres only so often that theres a hold there to pop a high heel onto for example or where a super wide bridge will help.

In terms of your example, if the blokes put their feet on, or got stronger fingers, or even just learned to use momentum better as they campus problems, they'd also be climbing harder, just as they would if they were more flexible. Working on each would help them climb harder on some subset of moves, but I think that as an example finger strength or active footwork would help on a far larger subset than flexibility would.

That'd be cool yeah ill look forwards to it.
Si dH - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to AJM:
To be fair Andy, I think there are a lot of moves where flexibility does not necessarily appear to be the limiting factor, but where a bit more flexibility would in fact allow you to (unconsciously) be closer in to the rock, or have your weight a bit more over your foot, on almost any of sort of rock-over or high stepping move, of which there are many. This all means less strength is required.
So I do think flexibility is important. However, I've also read some threads about this sort of thing on ukb that suggested yoga and the like may actually also have a detrimental effect on strength - I can't remember any details but apparently regular (over?) stretching of your arms and so on can do some harm in that sense. So it might be better just to do lower body flexibility exercises rather than full-on yoga.
Nick Russell on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to AJM:

Another opinion on flexibility... I do yoga every now and then, and there's a certain kind of move I seem to find easier than my partners. Kind of feet wide apart, twisting one way then the next, feels like you're trying to dislocate your hips...

I only really notice it because there's always a similar problem at TCA though. And most of my partners seem to be able to just crimp harder or lank past it.

Anyway, to get to my opinion on the matter, it's just another 'tool', and climbing is often about acquiring as many of these tools as possible. We each have a slightly different set of them, and compensate for weakness in one with strength in another...
Joughton on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Si dH: Trust me when I say that very few people get anything ticked at there first visit to the Tor apart from the warm-up boulder problems. I've never actually done Tin Of, I tried it once and just didn't like it. Sardine is much nicer, and easier - I managed to flash it despite failing on Tin Of. Also the crux of Sardine is the second part of the crux of Toadside, which is a soft (my first) 7c, so once you've done that you can get to work on a 7c that you already have some beta on!

But I agree that any session at the Tor is a mega training session even if you didn't tick anything.
Joughton on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Nick Russell:
> (In reply to AJM)
>
> Kind of feet wide apart, twisting one way then the next, feels like you're trying to dislocate your hips...

That's how I do every move!
Curious Yellow - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:
Cheers for doing fitclub :-)
Quick double update, missed last week. Thanks all for the nice comments about Something Stupid, I'm relieved to have got it done!

Mon - Rest.
Tues - Castle. Some of the V3 sandbags on the comp wall & mezz.
Wedns - Castle. Campus, then a boulder, got a few projects finished.
Thurs - Rest.
Fri - Weekend away, not climbing.
Sat - Ditto.
Sun - Ditto.
Mon - Ditto.
Tues - Castle. Good boulder despite the temperature, greased off the slab a couple of times and gave myself some bruises though!
Wedns - Rest.
Thurs - Castle. Long boulder session.
Fri - Rest.
Sat - Portland, Battleship. Messed around on Keyboard Wall (7c) on TR in a howling gale. Walked down to Portland Bill in the evening to watch the sea, drenched + blown inside out, amazing.
Sun - Portland, Cuttings. Sears Tower (7b+). Got a very sketchy but just about viable sequence using some _terrible_ footholds. Not quite making the first big reach but close enough that it seems worth persisting with.

AJM - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Si dH:

I don't think we are disagreeing - flexibility is one way of making moves like that easier. I just don't think its the only way or necessarily the most general purpose way of making moves (all moves) easier.
Joughton on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River: Cheers Steve, still can't get over it!

My priorities have changed slightly now, I've got a bit less psyche for hard indoors training and more for just enjoying trad climbing outside. I'm also bored of not having climbed 8a so I seriously need to get my act together - Statement of Youth looks like a good contender. That being said the weather was rubbish this week so any plans for enjoying being on real rock were kinda ruined!

Mon - still resting from Saturday, did myself in a bit on that final route, may have tried a bit too hard...
Tue - Good evening at Wilton 1 after college. Warmed up following Dad up an E1, then lead Max, a classic E3. It was pretty steep and really pumpy, but also very well protected so I took the time to refresh my gear placement skills and got really pumped. Still made it up though, brilliant route. Finished following Dad up another E1 in converse.
Wed - rest, shoulder sore, don't know why...
Thurs - no motivation to train!
Fri - nothing again...
Sat - still no training, very lazy, put I did by one of those pull up bars which hangs on your door frame so it's sat on my bedroom door tempting me do do some pull ups. I think it will help.
Sun - routes at MCC. Warmed up on 6b, 6b+, 6c+, and 7a+. Onsight attempt on the 7c ended going on the move for the very last hold, I was a bit gutted but it was one of those where I literally couldn't have carried on, I was just too pumped! Glad I really tried hard though, had a good 'go for it attitude' and took the fall. Finished onsighting another 7a+, then did two more laps on it on a toprope, falling off on a third lap attempt.

So I'm happy with my session but a bit disappointed with my fitness, I feel like I should normally be able to onsight 7c at MCC so to fall off the last move was annoying. But I feel like getting fit again won't be too hard, and that combined with my refined trad skills and winter of bouldering will hopefully result in a summer of crushing! If the weather perks up... good news is I finish college on Tuesday for the summer so at least I'll be able to make the most of it if the weather is good for once.

Cheers, Jake
ads.ukclimbing.com
JimmyKay - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

M-Rest
T-Campus board session + core workout. 160movements. (Felt this for days after - a good set forced upon me by a PT)
W-Nothing
T-Nothing
F-Popped to Dinbren after work with sheer utter psyche. Met Ally up at the crag. Had a quick warm up and fired Elite off first go of the day after Ally put the draws in. Only meant to go and have a play on the moves to warm the fingers up but found myself at the chains. Never in any danger of struggling on the moves.
S-Walked around Stratford all romantically.....
S-Devil's Gorge was a wash out so we bouldered at Panty. Repeated loads of easy stuff and then worked on the big crag traverse. Managed to extend a problem I've done before by adding the sitter. Reckon the crag traverse will make a great wet weather project (full - f8A short - f7C+) great power endurance exercises.

Felt good to beat the weather this week. Cheers to Ally for the belay.
grubes - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to JimmyKay: effort Jimmy is that 3 8a s now? Time to get a +?
grubes - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Needkraken:
> (In reply to Eagle River)
> Not completely sure how I can get the push bouldering that I need as my trad seems to be doing well.
Bouldering is hard and well trad is technically easy but mentally hard.

Font 5 (V1) is a low grade but the equivelent tech grade is normally 5b or even 5c. you would not do moves that hard below HVS (with a few exceptions i.e. the direct route at dinas mot).

6A (V3ish) if short could have a english 6a move which can feel desperate but if its long could be several 5a/b moves. You would not encounter 6a moves on trad until at least E2 normally E3 and harder

6B (V4ish) some times may even a english 6b move. For a 6b move on trad you are looking more E4 and above.

Dont fell too disheartened to not see your bouldering grade flying up plus you have only been climbing a short time.

> The issue with not feeling like I can try things (and fall maybe) on sport is just going to be something that needs time
The only way you will find out is if you go for it ;o)
grubes - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Si dH:
Hi Si no current plans for that weekend could well be up for malham but will need to decide closer to the time.
mattrm - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Si dH:
> (In reply to AJM)
> To be fair Andy, I think there are a lot of moves where flexibility does not necessarily appear to be the limiting factor, but where a bit more flexibility would in fact allow you to (unconsciously) be closer in to the rock, or have your weight a bit more over your foot, on almost any of sort of rock-over or high stepping move, of which there are many. This all means less strength is required.
> So I do think flexibility is important.

I agree with that. Said what I'm trying to put across much better.

I also like Nick's comment about tools.

Less sure about the regular over stretching. I'd love to know what that's being based on. I'll take a poke on the other channel.

But anyway, the main thing is, that I'd recommend it and I reckon that plenty of folk would see an improvement. Anyway, I'll stop making sweeping generalisations about a bunch of people I've never met now... :D

Also as ER asked, my shoulder is much better. I've figured out what's wrong with it and it's basically 8+ hours at a desk and driving that's causing the issue and not climbing.
IainRUK - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to mattrm:

m: 17 mile road and trail run, 6:50 pace.
t: 9 mile trail run.
w: am: 6 mile trail run. pm: 3 mile warm up, 4.5 mile road race, 3rd, 2 mile cool down.
t: 9 mile run 7:30 pace at 7:30 am in Hamburg before flight to stag do in Marbella
f: 10 mile 600m ascent trail run
s: 5.5 miles 300m ascent trail run. pm: 4.5 mile road/beach run
2: 3 mile road run back in Hamburg

Last serious week, drop 70 70% load this week, which starts sunday. Not ideal timing for stag do.. but ran eevry day but no quality, maybe a quiet 3-4 days will help freshen, now a few hard runs to get the beer out..
Nomics4sale - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

Thanks for doing the stats ER and for the congrats. You next!

STG: Ground Effect at Kilnsey, trad E1s and look at E2, work on remembering sequences.
MTG: 7a flash or in a day or quick 7b RP in Spain.
LTG: lots of E2s, maybe look at E3, RP 7b+

Mon: 7.5 mile trail run Pendle, 325m ascent
Tues: BoulderUK, flash up to V4. Weak!
Weds: 8.2 mile trail run Pendle, 600m ascent
Thurs: Gimmer, wet and drizzly, led F route (VS 4c), 2nded Asterisk (VS 4b)
Fri: Chapel Head Scar, utter failure on a 6c, Tufa King Hard.
Sat: Cougha Pike fell race, 5 mile, 400m ascent. Awesome!
Sun: Kilnsey, top roped Ground Effect, worked on sequence and tried to get it into my thick head!

Piss poor week really, wash out at Gimmer on Thursday and epic grade slide on Friday. The penny has finally dropped that my biggest weakness in red pointing is my abject failure to remember sequences on each red point attempt. I tried TFH at Chapel Head 3 or 4 times on friday and each time I got on it was like I was onsighting a new route. I might have ticked it if I'd had sequence worked out in my head. So I've added working on sequences as a new STG. Hopefully it will mean I get Ground Effect ticked more quickly than WYSIWYG.
Nick Russell on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Joughton:
> (In reply to Nick Russell)
> [...]
>
> That's how I do every move!

Ok, maybe that wasn't the best description of what I meant!
Nomics4sale - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Si dH:

Malham, no, but could do Kilnsey if you don't get sorted.
Luke Owens - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to JimmyKay:

Effort beast, psyched for you sending Elite! Sounds like you did it easily too!

Time for something harder!

Suprised the Gorge was soaked yesterday. We headed to Ty Newedd, was bone dry. There's a perma dry F8a+ for you there!
pork pie girl - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

last week went lime this:
m- rest
t- after work session at malham and then hill laps for cardio before a dip in stream and tea in van :o) felt a tad too humid to lead effectively tonight.. made me very grumpy as i felt like i was making excuses.. but after a while it cooled down and i started to feel better. worked on endurance..matched last week's efforts and messed about on top wall a bit
w-interval training on bike at the gym... ouch.. then core and stretching (no weights.. not doing any this week)
t-malham- matched my best effort so far but managed four fairly reasonable goes instead of two reasonable goes and then a third one falling off at every bolt.. must be getting a bit stronger and fitter, tried to work the top wall a bit.p.m turbo trainer in garage.. good sweaty session
f-interval training on bike in gym.. ouch ouch ouch.. core and stretch and half hour of steep bouldering (out with mum for afterno0n and evening .. her birthday)
s-road bike ride. hilly, windy .. right arm numb on the climbs.. but good ride
s (yesterday)malham.. bolt to bolted up to just before rest ledge.. have been trying to get the clips up without rests or falls and have usually managed leading through crux and then falling off the next bulge..often leaves me tired for the rest of route as i'm not warmed up enough, so this time i allowed myself to rest for a moment before the crux and after the crux before the next bit (that's another crux for me) FIRST TIME DOING THIS WITHOUT PUTTING THE QUICK DRAW IN WITH STICK FIRST FOR CONFIDENCE BOOST.. as i have felt like i would run out of strength whilst putting the draw in and then clipping the rope.. it wasn't an issue. BREAK THROUGH... managed to top rope all the way up to the last move at the rest ledge.. and i wasn't having to fight like mad through moves at the second bulge after the crux.. well chuffed. still struggling on last bulge before ledge so reckon this week i will either match my best effort or progress a tiny bit more

aims for this week... keep chipping away at endurance...

-ground to rest ledge without a snug rope on the last bulge.
-workout clipping position at last bulge
-lead the last bulge without grappling about with the sling
-spend more time on the top wall as i am way off having it wired.
-do not weight train but just as much time on teh bike and core as usual.. and increase stretching
-recognise key factors that may impact on performance, accept them, do what i can do with the things that ARE in my control (i.e. the weather isn't but irrational fear and hesitation are) and don't get annoyed with myself thinking that i'm making up excuses. in a nutshell be more climbing self aware.


PPG
Luke Owens - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

Cheers Steve, bit of a lull after the Holiday, felt suprisingly tired after the week away, i'd expect to be well rested after a week off! Guess all the walking, heat and not much relaxing accounted for it.

My main aim at the moment is to get on anything that is steep and powerful. Even if it means dropping the grade and getting an ego bashing in the process. Determinded to get better at a style I find hard!

M: Rest
T: Rest

W: Dinbren - Warmed up on a powerful F6c, did it first go.
Tried On-sighting a F6c+ with a really steep bouldery start - fell off then did the move quite easily. Really hot and greasy, should of saved it for better conditions. Will Redpoint it next time.

Got back on the F7b+ proj, adjusted and found better beta for first boulder problem but couldn't even do the upper section today - Felt really tired and couldn't do any powerful moves. Need to warm up properly next time.

T: Rest
F: Rest
S: Rest

S: Ty Newedd - Steep routes - On-sighted a F6b+ then went the wrong way on the on-sight of a F6c, worked some beta and got it 2nd RP. Very tricky and harder than most F6c's I've done.

Put the clips in on Black Wednesday awesome route, a very steep and technical F7a+, managed to work out the bottom crux and did all the moves in isolation, final move is a steep dyno. Felt boxed and couldn't link anything on it. Hopefully will feel easier when I'm fresh.

The steep route campaign continues!
pork pie girl - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River: re not valuing cario workouts/experiences... ignoramous ;o) only kidding :oD
Nomics4sale - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

Hey, good progress. You think not doing weights last week helped?
grubes - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to grubes:
> Sort out Squamish accomadation - think so need to check
Finally after 6 months this is done we have an awesome apartment booked :)
Eagle River - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

I didn't say I don't value them, I just have no personal reference point so can't fully appreciate standards and therefore improvements easily.

Plus, why would anyone want to do anything but climb? Baffling.....
Nik Jennings - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:
Splendid.
AJM - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

> I didn't say I don't value them, I just have no personal reference point so can't fully appreciate standards and therefore improvements easily.

I feel your pain - that was always one of my big weaknesses with the stats in that as someone for whom CV exercise remains a quaint mystery I've no idea what a good week looks like for people unless they or someone else tells me so...

> Plus, why would anyone want to do anything but climb? Baffling.....

+1
Needkraken - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to grubes:
> (In reply to Needkraken)
> [...]
> Bouldering is hard and well trad is technically easy but mentally hard.
>
>
> Dont fell too disheartened to not see your bouldering grade flying up plus you have only been climbing a short time.
>

I know this really, just found myself getting disheartened watching someone flash a problem I couldn't get in like her 3rd session ever compared to me who's been working trying to push it.

Just need to keep my head up and keep trying =p

Nick Russell on 24 Jun 2013
Follow-up to my earlier post: I got a photo of the fingerboard setup
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=222387
Does anybody else go to the lengths I do to avoid screwing into the walls in rented accommodation?
There's scope for hanging a small campus board from that loft hatch too, maybe an autumn DIY project... And longer-term, there's space in the loft for a decent size bouldering wall, but that would be a huge job!

Also, for the first time, my goals from last week still seem reasonably calibrated.
Short term (~1 month) - training for Frankenjura
* Find opportunities to go sport climbing
* Keep up the finger strength with at least one fingerboard session/week
* Start running training (take 3)
Medium term (this season)
Trad: Onsight E3 6a, become solid at E3 on more rock types/climbing styles. Get on more E4s (especially those a bit higher in the grade)
Sport: Lots of 7a/+ sport climbing (maybe sneaking in an onsight at this level). Redpoint 7b
Running: Snowdonia marathon in October
Longer term (probably not this season)
Sport: Paradise Lost, Cheddar
Trad: The Axe, Cloggy
Running: Longer races, start some fell running
maria85 - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:
>more impressive is climbing the day after and not sitting about eating all day
>
I felt fine the day after... running this week has suffered though. Had a reasonable week, marred by being totally useless on Friday night. Weekend was very lazy really, having read about plenty of others getting out climbing though I'm a bit annoyed at myself that I didn't make the effort.

Running: Only did around 25km of the 50 I'd planned. Various excuses: a niggly injury that the 3 Peaks caused to flare up again (something in my foot/ankle & knee, on the same leg so probably connected); hayfever; general tiredness. The leg's feeling a little better so I'm hoping to do 40-50km this week, then cut right back next week before the marathon.

Climbing: 2 good sessions earlier in the week, did a couple of VS's which I'm really happy with - only VS I know but one (Hades) has intimidated me for ages but I finally got on it and cruised it :-) The other was a gritstone slab, something I wouldn't have touched at a VDiff level a few months ago, never mind VS. I find them utterly terrifying so was good to get a VS tick on one. Friday evening (see write up below) I got blinded by trying to get another E1 tick - leading to poor route choice and backing off 2 different E1s and not having a very good time at all. Very annoyed at myself for this, although reading Nick's post has encouraged me to be a bit more lenient on myself - it is at the upper end of my ability after all, so E1 shouldn't be a given. Have since realised that I have only ever climbed around 5 HVS's - same as E1s - so maybe I should be consolidating on HVS instead at the moment instead of trying to push for E1s??

M: Bike commute. Still tired from 3 peaks.
T: Bike commute. Short lunchtime run (3.5km)
Baildon Bank: Led Hades (VS 4c) - stoked. Seconded Epitaph (HS 4a). Got on Joanna (VS 5a) but got spat off the bottom jamming crack (just as hard as I remember it from years ago). Finished it but will definitely have to go back and get it clean soon.
W: Ran to work, 10.5km, 150m, 1hr 5.
Stanage End: Led Crab Crawl Arete (VS 4c), seconded some easier stuff.
T: Bike commute.
F: Bike commute.
Witches Quarry: Attempted Satan's Slave (E1 5b). The crux move is a pull over a roof, with nasty fall potential onto a ledge. Very poor route choice from me (not even a starred route) - bailed up It Started With A Kiss (HVS 5b) next to it. Seconded Peel Off (VS 4c). Got on Cloven Hoof (E1 5b) - got incredibly pumped trying to place gear, down climbed from the crux and back up many times, getting another move or another piece of gear each time, then failed to commit as I convinced myself the gear was rubbish, got scared, down climbed the whole thing. Got seriously midged too and went off to sulk & eat ice cream. Not my best day.
S: Bottom half of the red loop at Gisburn forest. Fell off lots. Suffering from Ali's uncoordinated syndrome I believe. (May have influenced last night's climbing too...)
S: Slow run near Coniston. Checked out some of the marathon course to help in the trail shoes/road shoes decision. ~12km, 350m.

Still can't decide about shoes for the marathon though! I think 60-70% of the course will be flattish, gravelly trails (=road shoes). The rest is fairly rocky and muddy footpaths (=trail shoes). Road shoes will be better for tired legs, but worse on the technical bits. Trail shoes mean slightly faster running through the techy bits, but will totally suck on the long slog through Grizedale. Any thoughts, runners?
Ally Smith on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:
LTG (End 2013) - Unjustified at Malham & new routes on the Diamond

MTG (Spring 2013) - 8b
SUP ext at Pigeons - cruising the bottom section, just need to work out a way to do the crux which is currently very low percentage for me.
Stolen at Kilnsey.

STG
Priorities:
- Get energy back - need some quality sleep this week
- Finger re-hab; getting there
- Shoulder/elbow physio; tackling the cause of my elbow pains, not the symptoms - much less of an issue with outdoor climbing instead of indoors
- Aero-power; continue to get pumped 2-3 times a week
- Continue with core and flexibility work
- Lose some weight; aim for <75kg (11st 10lb) 75.3kg and and 6.7%

The week just gone:

M - Rest. Bit of a YYFY moment, but can't say more for now (FB friends - it wasn't Team America)
T - Waterfall crag. Super sweaty. Did Strawberries Man, 7c on 4th go; should have been 2nd go. Then spent huge quantities of energy trying to OS and even RP a very "traditional" 7a+ roof crack. 7a by head-torch to finish off.
W - Harmers Wood again. Lots of stuff in Haydn's quarry upto 7A, inc new direct finish to one of Andy Popp's problems. New boots ruining toes after doing the traverse to warm down.
T - Cycled to work & back. Pulled 3 toenails off.
F - Dinbren. 6c OS warm-up, then working Elite with Jimmykay. Gutted to drop it twice from above the crux, but super happy that energy levels and crimp-ability has returned.
S - Tor. Boulder to warm-up, then dog Prow-in-one, 8a. 1st RP dropped from crux of "middle" pitch when I tried Aly's alternate beta. I thought I'd blown it for the day, but decided to have another go; 2nd RP - steady all the way, even shaking out in the middle of cruxes. Barely 130bpm at the rest where previously i'd been breathing out my ar$e.
S - Damp and windy cave session. Got close to repeating Broken Heart with an eye on Broken Sam finish, which felt nails in isolation with thin skin. 3.5 reps on LW (7c) to finish.

Big turn around this week. Feel like psyche and energy have returned with a vengeance; venga venga!

Oh, and I also found time to write a blog piece about a new route I did last year:
http://allysmithblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/badger-badger-badger-drawing-motivation.html
Nick Russell on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to maria85:
> Have since realised that I have only ever climbed around 5 HVS's - same as E1s - so maybe I should be consolidating on HVS instead at the moment instead of trying to push for E1s??

This is something I've thought about a fair bit too: I think my trad leading would benefit from a lot more consolidation at E1/E2 level, rather than jumping straight at the E3s. I've also found it easy to forget that some of the best climbing days I've had have been the ones spent cruising lots of routes in the HVS/E1 range, not just the ones where I've scared myself on something hard and just about clawed up by my fingernails... Anyway, I think I'm trying to say that consolidating is good (essential) for pushing your limits, and it's often fun too :)
mbh - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to AJM:

I can understand that. While I have never done an E-anything, unless falling off South Groove at Trewavas counts (E-points wise, I aimed low and missed), I have looked up at many of them, I have fallen off HVSs, struggled on low sport grades, and failed on all kinds of indoor wall and local easy-peasy boulder problems, so I can appreciate at some level the difficulty of what many on here are trying to do and be inspired by your efforts to improve.

Running wise, the purpose is as much a mixture of enjoyment and search for self-esteem through real effort as in climbing - I want to get up this, I want to run this far at this pace - and the main problem is in finding the motivation to keep on doing it, in the face of one's laziness, vulnerability to immediate temptation (glass of wine, 10 mile run in the rain - which would you choose?) and the need to sleep, work and say hello occasionally to the family. Posting on here is one way of finding that mojo. A detailed log book with all that it reveals is another.

I find all the cardio reports very interesting, even if I don't say so.




Eagle River - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to maria85:

Re: witches. It's a shame you chose cloven hoof instead of crucible. They both go from that ledge but crucible has decent protection (small wires I think) whereas cloven hoof is a bit more sketchy.

The Fox - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:
> (In reply to maria85)
>
> Re: witches. It's a shame you chose cloven hoof instead of crucible. They both go from that ledge but crucible has decent protection (small wires I think) whereas cloven hoof is a bit more sketchy.

Ha! Beat me to it!
grubes - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Needkraken:
Take the positives from saturday. you did that 6a+ clean both me and will thought the crux was english 5c (font 5+/6A)
You then did the start of puddle jumper (the crux) which again I reckon is 5+/6Aish so you are doing your max boulder grade on a rope. Plus you flashed the crux on Puddle jumper (a 7a!). Thats a pretty good effort.

one session of disappointment is not bad try going back to a project you had marked as a quick tick for over 10 sessions over 10 months ...
pork pie girl - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Nomics4sale: well i've made small gains most week or every couple of weeks.. but yesterday was the biggest gain so far and then last week i did manage to climb more before i was shagged out.

i didn't feel massively rested yesterday..i had my usual 'i feel a tad tired (in my legs mainly.. from cycling) 6th day on of exercise before my rest day' (today) so i wasn't feeling super fresh in comparison.. the top of my forearms/elbows were still a little sore - they're always a bit sore nowadays because i find the climbing on my project intense but they're not getting worse and usually don't hinder my climbing once i'm warmed up.

it's hard to identify if skipping two weight training workouts last week contributed to the improvement or is it just about getting fitter and more efficient at the moves becuase i'm continuously working that route and trying hard?

plan is to skip wieght training for another week or two.. or more if i feel it makes a difference.
Nomics4sale - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to The Fox and ER:

I might have blown that for Maria, she 2nded me on Crucible a few weeks ago. Sorry Maria!
Nomics4sale - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to C Chestwig; Treacherous climber:

Cruised 8a second RP, awesome!!
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Ally Smith on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Nomics4sale: Cheers, but the write up of Saturday doesn't reflect the 5 or 6 previous days spread over 4+ years trying this route!

(yep - just checked - first did pitch 1 in Apr 2009)

It has been pointed out to me that I need to stop getting quick ticks and get involved in a proper project.

Hence tomorrow I hope to be back at Kilnsey to try and sort out the top half of Stolen, 8b.
Luke Owens - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to C Chestwig; Treacherous climber:

Top effort on the 8a buddy!
Nomics4sale - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to C Chestwig; Treacherous climber:

Ah I did wonder about that after I posted. Even so it's pretty impressive.

And BTW when I was at Kilnsey yesterday I asked a few regulars about that E5 6a you mentioned, Deja Vu. Most people seemed to think it was insanely dangerous. Or at least insanely dangerous for me to try it! So I'm on Ground Effect for now, proper bolts and all that.

Hope it goes well on Stolen. Have you set yourself a time limit?
maria85 - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Nomics4sale/the fox/ER:
That's exactly why I didn't do it instead! Cloven hoof has good gear below the crux, then a weird sideways nut, then a good small nut and small cam if you can get them in. I got too pumped trying to get the first nut in, then made the mistake of skipping the small nut and trying to get the cam in - off a weird slopey handhold that I was slipping off. Gave up and downclimbed as I didn't want to take the fall on the dodgy nut. 2nd go got the small 9ne in, rested again then went for it, but on closer inspection I'd gone a size too small with the nut and it looked sketchy too. The next hold wasn't great either and I got totally psyched out and bailed. Didn't trust my gear enough to lower though so i downclimbed the lot...
maria85 - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Nomics4sale: And I'll let you off, Crucible was lovely even on 2nd ;-)
maria85 - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Nick Russell: HVS is a grade I kind of skipped... I climbed E1 before I touched a HVS (albeit a soft touch one move wonder E1 that no one's ever heard of) and was generally put off HVS's by a few horrendous sandbags and general reputation.

I've been noticing just how much more comfortable I feel on VS recently - not just happy on the ones that suit me but getting up pretty much anything I try. I think I need to extend that to HVS rather than just ignoring it and trying to push to harder grades. Plus, you're right, it's much more fun! I aimed purely for a grade tick on Friday and ignored the (excellent) easier routes - and had a miserable time.

That said, I had a good look at a couple of E2's at Baildon that I'd like to get on before the end of the summer :)
Ally Smith on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Nomics4sale:
> And BTW when I was at Kilnsey yesterday I asked a few regulars about that E5 6a you mentioned, Deja Vu. Most people seemed to think it was insanely dangerous. Or at least insanely dangerous for me to try it! So I'm on Ground Effect for now, proper bolts and all that.

Nah - it's definitely safe if you pre-clip the threads off the deck!

> Hope it goes well on Stolen. Have you set yourself a time limit?

If I can work out the clip after the 1st belay and a more solid method for the very top bulge, then I'll be on redpoint by the weekend. Then it'll be a case of grinding it down until it relents.
pork pie girl - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to C Chestwig; Treacherous climber: well done on the 8a over teh weekend :o) only just realised who you are.. change of ukc name.
JimmyKay - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Luke Owens:

Chest hair didn't crush any old 8a. It was the Prow all in one!! Awesome!!

In reply to Ally: What is the move on Badger Badger Badger like bud? Bouldery? Anything like the press?
The Fox - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to maria85: good (worthy of stars) HVS at Witches.
Familiar's Fall
Started with a Kiss
Spellbound
Witch bane
Brimstone
Tarot Wall

As far as E1 is concerned you've already worked out that Satan's Slave has a potential prang that really isn't worth it. Cloven hoof is good and has adequate gear if you can figure out where and what it is.
Hope that helps.
AJM - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to C Chestwig; Treacherous climber:

> It has been pointed out to me that I need to stop getting quick ticks and get involved in a proper project.

What kind of an arse would say something like..... ah. Oops. Ahem, well, where were we...

I was completely taken in with Team America too.
thebigfriendlymoose - on 25 Jun 2013
In reply to C Chestwig; Treacherous climber:

Bit off topic, but given the number of Kilnsey-ites here, hopefully not offensively so:

Anyone need a belay for Yorkshire sport climbing this weekend: Sat and/or Sun 29-30 June? Kilnsey preferred but happy to go elsewhere (stuff to try at Chapel, Malham, Yew Cogur, Giggleswick Hollywood Bowl). I'm free all day, lifts available from Ilkley area or en route.
Ally Smith on 25 Jun 2013
In reply to JimmyKay:

> What is the move on Badger Badger Badger like bud? Bouldery? Anything like the press?

Yes, very bouldery.

Like the Press? Dunno - haven't been to Rubicon for a couple of years. Think it's a bit more vert than that problem though.

Pete took 30+ goes to nail the move, so 7B might be conservative...
NMN - on 25 Jun 2013
In reply to maria85:

> S: Slow run near Coniston. Checked out some of the marathon course to help in the trail shoes/road shoes decision. ~12km, 350m.
>
> Still can't decide about shoes for the marathon though! I think 60-70% of the course will be flattish, gravelly trails (=road shoes). The rest is fairly rocky and muddy footpaths (=trail shoes). Road shoes will be better for tired legs, but worse on the technical bits. Trail shoes mean slightly faster running through the techy bits, but will totally suck on the long slog through Grizedale. Any thoughts, runners?

I haven't done the course and don't know the route, but...

If the rocky, muddy section is dry, on the day, and not very technical I would go with road shoes, but I really like my road shoes and struggle a bit with fell / trail shoes.
Have you checked out the rocky, muddy section in road shoes in the dry? If so and you thought it was ok, hope for dry conditions on the day and go with road shoes.
If not, this is the bit to recce in road shoes and see how you get on.
I think it was very wet last year? and sounds like trail shoes were definitely better.
Sankey - on 25 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River: Cheers, will have a look at Yosemite wall at somepoint. Reporting up till today as this feel like one "batch" of climbing. Spent a day on each of the 7a+'s I am trying. Very similar sessions on both routes, had a couple of pretty poor attempts initially, and then gradually got back to end with decent links on both. A bit dissapointed that despite being on them once a week I wasn't starting from where I left off, had hoped to have RPed Appetite. For Appetite I linked the main section of climbing on a final TR go, so it shouldn't be too far away. Similar for Direct Flight, managed from the ground to the bolt at which the final sequence starts, but think the finish will take some effort. Couple of quick goes on Consenting today too, not too keen to lead this due to the 3rd clip, so will probably just slowly improve on it with occasional goes as a TR warm up.

M:
T: Road Bike 16 miles 1500 feet
W: Mountain Bike 8 miles (fell in Rivelin river, quite funny and surprising!)
T: Edge: circuits, lapping 6a+, repeated the 6b and working the 7a+
F: Short walk at Stanage Pole
S: Works: flashed the 6b circuit, working the 6c+/7am wicked final move!
S: Kilnsey: 4 goes on Direct flight

M: Lots of driving for work, 400 mile round trip
T: Malham: 4 goes on Appetite + 2 on Consenting


STG: More 7a's (Bleep and booster, barguest direct): this years RPS: 6c (4) 6c+ (2) 7a (2)

MTG: 7a+ Appetite/Direct Flight (working both at present)

LTG: 7b I guess, why not!
useful on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River: Hi EA, thanks for starting the thread.

Wedding was amazing: in a 15th century Bohemian Castle about 1 hour from Prague. Too much eating (pretty constant from 8am until midnight), a bit of outdoor swimming, a bit of volleyball, a bit of dancing with my daughter, although she keeps holding onto my fingers too tightly, and on every twirl tweaks my sore left-hand ligament :(. Found frogs, a snake, a huge edible mushroom, and squirrels all in the castle grounds. All good family chillin' stuff.

On Sunday, we had a very short walk around Svojkov's Modlivż d&#367;l. Online references say the local rock is limestone, but it felt like sandstone when I tried to mess about on it! Very soft holds, I managed to pull one off, luckily only a foot or two off the ground.

Anyway, real training: not much:
M 17/6 10' rowing warm up and power 10s, followed by a body weight circuit and stretching. SO needed the stretching: I've been stiffening up with all this outdoor climbing followed by no stretches :/
T 18/6 Maeshafn: Decided to tackle the Minstrel E1 5b. Very eventful: dogged battling up the overhanging crack, followed by my first fall onto gear when my hand slipped off the final jug. 10ft onto a bomber nut. It's still an excellent route, especially the top technical half when you're pumped! Followed that with a second on The Bulger HVS 5a then a clean lead of Shattered Crack HS 4a (because that's how I felt after the Minstrel!) and a second of Dandy Lion and the subsequent gorse battle at the top...
Th 20/6 w 78.1kg 17.3%.
Fri flying
Sa drinking/eating/wedding/partying
Su chilling/drinking/eating/walking
M fly/train/coach/car back to North Wales and passing out! :)

mrchewy - on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to useful: Good effort on Minstrel - apt name when you were off to a wedding in a castle! First fall on gear can be quite a relief when everything works as it should, it certainly helped my leading head after.
Hopefully in Wales myself this weekend (maybe seconding Left Wall) and quite excited to not be on limestone or grit for a change.
Luke Owens - on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to useful:

Good effort getting fully commited above gear! That lob will be good for your confidence.
grubes - on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:
anyone free saturday or sunday?
Happy for sport, trad or bouldering
need to be back in hudds for 6 sat but free all day sunday
thebigfriendlymoose - on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to grubes:

I am free both sat and sun - up for sport at any venue (though Kilnsey preferred).
JimmyKay - on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

Just thought I'd throw this idea out to UKC FC-ers.


Planning on heading down to Ceuse for a week (in my car). I have 2 spaces in the car. Trying to do it as cheap as possible as I'm going to Croatia for 2 weeks at the end of summer. Found ferry for £40 return and petrol/europe insurance split between 4 should be reasonable.

If anyone is keen send me an email.

Jim
JimmyKay - on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to JimmyKay:

That should read either the last week in July or first in August
IainRUK - on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to maria85: For longer runs I always go for comfort.. you descend more casually. I use my road shoes for most races bar fell races. Certainly trail races.

It depends how good/bad you are as a descender though, but on a long race take them easy, just don't overly break.. save the quads, fast feet. But the ups and flats are where big times are made.
Ally Smith on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to C Chestwig; Treacherous climber:
> [...]
>
> If I can work out the clip after the 1st belay and a more solid method for the very top bulge, then I'll be on redpoint by the weekend. Then it'll be a case of grinding it down until it relents.

Sweet - sorted the clip last night and lead through the crux for the first time. Also sorted the final tricky section of Bullet.

However, I did break a hold low down which makes the section immediately after the first crux more contorted. Sorted a sequence here though.

Overall, this weekend I will definitely be on red-point!
Luke Owens - on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to JimmyKay:

When I drove to Ceuse last year we got absolutely savagely drained of cash by toll roads, something to think about!
Luke Owens - on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to C Chestwig; Treacherous climber:

Good effort! That didn't take long, should be ticked in no time!
JimmyKay - on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to Luke Owens:

Yeah I've thought about the tolls!
maria85 - on 27 Jun 2013
In reply to The Fox: Cheers, I'll check them out. Any other non-Witches suggestions for good, well protected HVS & E1 around Lancs/Yorkshire welcome :-)
maria85 - on 27 Jun 2013
In reply to NMN & Iain:

Looks like it's going to be road shoes unless it's really wet. I checked out the rocky, muddy section in fairly wet conditions in trail shoes (Inov8 Roclites) and they were good to have, however my boyfriend was with me and wearing road shoes and doing just fine in them. I think the benefits over the long, flatter sections will be worth it. Not too worried about speed, more just finishing still in one piece!
AJM - on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to JimmyKay:

Just as a tip go via Luxembourg you get diesel for 1.18 and it's toll free from Calais to Luxembourg, 4 hrs or so. Think it was only then about 40 odd euros tolls in the van from there.
ads.ukclimbing.com
NorthernClamberer - on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River: Thanks ER.

Sorry for my tardiness and I am afraid nothing to report climbing wise this week. It's all gone a bit crazy in my life, parents turning up, concerts in the cathedral, the wonders of Professor Elemental, another interview in Edinburgh....

Anyway, the upshot of all this is.... as of the 1st of October I start a PhD in Bradford on Unravelling the Prehistoric landscape of the Yorkshire Dales, a fieldwork based approach!

Where am I going to live?!
Ally Smith on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to NorthernClamberer:

Two options: The Depot or Leeds Wall!?!
NorthernClamberer - on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to C Chestwig; Treacherous climber:

Ha ha ha!

The proximity of a decent wall and good crag are indeed most important. Living anywhere near the centre of Bradford less so!

I used to live in Thornton but I think that might be too far west and south.
useful on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to Luke Owens & mrchewy:
Thanks guys. I'm fairly confident falling off anyway! It seems to be frowned upon by most trad climbers in CMC, but the group I'm with are a bit more... adventurous, let's say, and we've taken at least one fall each in the past 3 months!

On the Minstrel, I definitely had a look down and thought, "I'm too far up to hit the ground from here, and the next 3 bits of gear are bomber. I'm going for it!". I did spend a long time at the top trying to work out the route, it was a bit overhanging, but there were so many holds that I could see that somewhere there was a way to use my feet well rather than just beasting it.

I'm sure it's called the Minstrel because you "sing" as you go up it, even if the main lyrics are four letter words starting with "f" :D On this evening there was a group there from the Peaks. I think there was a barney between one pair attempting it, with the second refusing to follow after the verbal abuse he'd received from the lead, meaning the lead had to strip his own gear!

Minor Preview: more beasty climbing this week on limestone... :)
useful on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to mrchewy: Have fun at Cromlech!
I think I'm taking my GF to scramble/easy climb Glyder Fach on Saturday, and have a planned excursion to Gogarth's Wen Zawn on Sunday with the boys. I hope my shoulder will be a bit stronger/less tender by then!
useful on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to AJM: fuel in Czech is 35CZK per litre (about £1.00) :(
I'd recommend any sandstone fans heading out that way sometime soon, it was very attractive! :)

The Wide Boyz have just been out that way (and in Poland)

http://hotaches.com/wide-boyzski-wide-boyz-climbing-trip-to-poland/
mattrm - on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

Finally have a fingerboard (ok, a bit of 2x4) up in the porch.

useful - taking trad lead falls is ok, just make sure they're safe ones. He says remembering his deck out fall.
maria85 - on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to NorthernClamberer:
I live in Saltaire... not bad really considering it's officially part of Bradford! Shipley Glen & Baildon Bank within walking distance, loads of running/mtb trails, an ok bouldering wall in Crosshills (which is £3 for the last 1hr 15 of the evening, useful!). Getting out to the Dales is quick and easy as there's no city traffic to fight through (<1hr to pretty much every crag in the Dales). Fast & direct trains to both Leeds & Bradford (& Skipton/Ilkley). 25 mins to the Depot, a bit more to Leeds Wall/Citybloc.

Bingley/Cottingley are nice too. Don't go any closer to Keighley though! ;-)

And congrats on the phd!
maria85 - on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to Nick Russell: That's an awesome idea with the fingerboard! How does it all attach together - presumably it comes apart to fit it through the hatch then slots back together somehow?

I use one of pull up bars that slots in to a doorway and cams into place (as opposed to the ones that screw outwards) and have mounted the board on a plank of wood with two blocks behind it, with a hole drilled through all the wood that slots on to the two bars that stick out forwards from the bar. If that makes sense.
NorthernClamberer - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to maria85: Thanks. I had thought of saltaire. Or maybe skipton. :-)

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