/ Bowline Types

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mmmhumous on 23 Jun 2013
Are there any advantages to using an Edwards bowline over a standard bowline that's been stoppered or 'Yosemite finished,' or is it just slightly more secure?
Rick Graham on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to mmmhumous:

Here we go again.
Tom F Harding on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to mmmhumous: Just use a double fig-eight, it will save you thinking or talking about this tedious question.
Rick Graham on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to The_flying_climber:
No way. I use bowlines, overhand, various prussiks and clove hitch.
Tom F Harding on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Rick Graham:

I use double fig-eight, clovehitch, prussic and alpine butterfly...

Must be a generation thing... :-P
Rick Graham on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to The_flying_climber:

I would blame the Establishment.
Al Randall on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Rick Graham: The likes of you and me ARE the Establishment Rick. :-)
mmmhumous on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to mmmhumous:
I'll take that as no then, and continue to use a a Yosemite finish.
Merlin - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to mmmhumous:

Do you have a photo of a Yosemite finish?

I played with this knot, but found the 'finish' to unthread rather easily making me revert to the traditional stopper knot, but I wonder if I was tying it wrong?
Rick Graham on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Al Randall:
> (In reply to Rick Graham) The likes of you and me ARE the Establishment Rick. :-)

Speak for yourself.

Me. Never.
cuppatea on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to mmmhumous:

Which is the best knot? Bowline or Fig 8?
Bulls Crack - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to cuppatea:
> (In reply to mmmhumous)
>
> Which is the best knot? Bowline or Fig 8?

The 'best' knot for getting wrong is the bowline.....
Rick Graham on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Bulls Crack:
> (In reply to cuppatea)
> [...]
>
> The 'best' knot for getting wrong is the bowline.....

I think the stats prove otherwise.
Martin Bennett - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to The_flying_climber:
> (In reply to Rick Graham)
>

>
> Must be a generation thing... :-P

No - not - I'm older than either of you (I bet) and resort to a bowline for only two, relatively infrequently occurring, circumstances. Double Fig of 8 for me.

mmmhumous on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Merlin:

Step 4 and 5 show the Yosemite finish, but I usually add a stopper knot too (on the live rope):

http://www.netknots.com/files/6413/2990/8400/yosemite-bowline.jpg
Al Randall on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Rick Graham: Lets see. Older than the average climber, member of the CC and probably the FRCC as well, wise sage with years of experience. Sorry my friend most on here would probably consider you establishment. :-)
Rick Graham on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Al Randall:
> (In reply to Rick Graham) Lets see. Older than the average climber, member of the CC and probably the FRCC as well, wise sage with years of experience. Sorry my friend most on here would probably consider you establishment. :-)

I have always liked to rock the boat (a bit) in both climbing and work.

I was actually referring to the climbing education/training establishment.
AlanLittle - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Al Randall:

I'm guessing that being 52 makes me the whippersnapper here. At any rate not too old to learn new tricks, because in the last few years I've started using a rethreaded bowline as my standard single rope tie-in knot for sport climbing, after using nothing but figure 8s for decades.
Craigyboy13 - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to mmmhumous: in sailing i use a bowline for everything, all the sails are attached via a bowline, even the mooring lines which are constantly under load then not.

bowlines can come loose but is an excellent knot.

but for climbing i personally use a figure of 8 just to conform ;) bowlines are hard to spot done wrong, even though i can tie one with my eyes closed and with one hand i still use the fig 8
Rick Graham on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13:
>

>
> but for climbing i personally use a figure of 8 just to conform


QED. One point for the establishment.

ads.ukclimbing.com
Rob Naylor - on 23 Jun 2013
In reply to mmmhumous:
> Are there any advantages to using an Edwards bowline over a standard bowline that's been stoppered or 'Yosemite finished,' or is it just slightly more secure?

It's a lot more secure than a standard bowline that's just been stoppered...I've seen stoppers on bowlines work loose a number of times.

I've used the Edwards bowline for a bout 10 years now...relates back to when I was 3 stone heavier...believe me, an 18+ stone porker taking falls onto a fig 8 practically welds it together, whereas the Edwards bowline is just as safe and easy to undo after taking a fall onto it.

Not tried the Yosemite finish but I reckon from looking at it that it'd be similar to the Edwards or Fig 8 in level of security.
snoop6060 - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to mmmhumous:

Stay away from the bowline, you won't tie it properly, its nearly impossible. Honestly, you will just plunge to your death. Its only a matter of time.

The ONLY safe knot is the retied figure of 8, with at least 4 stopper knots. Then about 1m of tail tucked in your pocket.

Depends how much you value life.
CharlieMack - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to mmmhumous:

+1 for Yosemite bowline with stopper on live.

I feel it's better than a normal bowline, as rethreading it fills out the knot so there is less room for anything to riggle free, much like in a retied figure 8, if that makes sence?
And is just as easy to untie after a whipper as a standard bowline.
That's my tuppence worth.
ashley1_scott - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to mmmhumous:
Just to throw another one in there, but I am the only person I have ever seen tie it. End Bend Single Bowline with a Yosemite finish or EBSB to shorten the name
Prof. Outdoors on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to ashley1_scott:
The EBSB is an excellent knot and has been mentioned in other posts and it makes the bowline secure. Page 12 fig 26 on the following site.

http://www.paci.com.au/downloads_public/knots/Bowlines_Analysis.pdf

Definitely not easy to learn, scope for going wrong so may not suit everyone. I like it.

Justin T - on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to mmmhumous:

+1, but I like to mix it up with a double loop bowline with yosemite finish and stopper on the live. Allegedly as strong / stronger than fig-8, safe as houses, quicker to tie and untie than rethreaded bowline.

The other thing I always do though is give the rope from my harness a good yank just before I set off - a good habit to get into no matter what knot you use I reckon...
knudeNoggin - on 25 Jun 2013
In reply to mmmhumous:
Rather than have so much of the knotting done by the tail,
as for the Edwards bowline, it is better to put some of the
extra (over basic bowline) into the initial ("standing") part
of the line : have as your base a clove hitch (or a larkshead
/aka "girth hitgh"), and to that do the bowlinesque "rabbit
comes out of the hole, around the tree, and back down
the hole" movements at BOTH ends of this base.
The additional knotting in the standing part is helpful
in resisting loosening of the knot. (It also provides
under-load security if one should have to knot very
slippery bare HMPE cordage.)

I believe that such an enhanced bowline is shown in the
aforementioned PDF document about bowlines and is
named --for the larkshead variation-- "Mirrored bowline"
(for it is as though a mirror bisects the knot along the axis
of tension); and in that document, it is shown over-tightened,
esp. for the loaded end's side (perhaps for space constraints).


*kN*
knudeNoggin - on 25 Jun 2013
In reply to Justin T:

> The other thing I always do though is give the rope from my harness a good yank just before I set off - a good habit to get into no matter what knot you use I reckon...

+1
This step would have prevented some of the accidents one reads about, where possibly NO knot was tied. It's good sort of "muscle memory" step to have ingrained.

(-;

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