/ power lifting parameters

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andic - on 27 Jun 2013
I started lifting weight in November last year I am stronger now. But have questions partly based on posts on UCK this week.

Miles is very happy with his 2xBW deadlift
Men's Health thinks 1.75xBW is elite
Ice solo says 2xBW is just the start of getting strong

I don't know my 1RM but it is probably about 200kg (based on 3*6@180)

So the question I have is at this point should I increase weight or volume? What do I want to achieve? Just to be a lean mean killing machine.

So what does a LMKM: DL, Bench, squat and particularly clean

If I have misrepresented anyone sorry just after some deas
andic - on 27 Jun 2013
In reply to andic:
I weigh 90 kg fwiw
switch - on 27 Jun 2013
Hi,

These tables will give you some targets, according to experience and bodyweight:
http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html

Did you have any joy with getting coaching for C&J and snatch?
switch - on 27 Jun 2013
some more thoughts:

Are you cycling your routine and changing the emphasis and/or the exercises every 4-6 weeks? Eg volume phase (5-8 rep sets?) then strength phase (2-5 rep sets)?

Are you varying the types of lifts eg snatch deadlift, front squats, box squats, pause squats, narrow grip bench clean pulls, power cleans etc etc
andic - on 27 Jun 2013
In reply to switch:

A X fit place opened in Sheffield and I had some coaching there but I'm not much cop, keeping at it tho'.

Cycling shaking up, not so much. I feel like I have built a decent base wondering which direction to take now and how to get there, the charts say I'm intermediate at most things.

How are things with you?
andic - on 27 Jun 2013
In reply to andic:

I do do OH and front squats, love em in fact. But my gym does not have a power rack so I can only squat what I can clean (and press)
ice.solo - on 27 Jun 2013
In reply to andic:

im not expert but i lift for the same reasons you do (LMKM).

my own standards are just to copy the usuals, as layed out by guys like dan john (im an acolyte i know, but i dont know enough to make my own).

these include 2 x double body weight DL, BW clean/press, 1.5BW backsquat, 1.25 front squat, BW overhead squat, 50% BW TGU. bench im ignorant of as i cant do them properly (injury) beyond BW.

i weight 75kg and fulfil all of these simply because i need to in order to do the training program i do. im not 'strong' - just strong enough to really train. i exceed the standards unevenly (5% for some, 10% for others).
there are other cardio standards too that i think are more telling, and determine 'strength' in other ways. as a LMKM, i think cardio capacity outstrips 1RM - but then at 75kg i would...
to my mind, covering 20km with 22kgs of weight is a better indicator of functional strength than DL, but weights have their place as raw indicators.

'my' approach (ie the one i copy from elsewhere) is to think of progress as a pyramid and expand its height (1RM) by developing its base (power endurance). basically, periodize so sometimes youre pushing the reps for a month or so, then focus on pushing the peak. always do lots of supportive stuff.

i think its just the start of strength because a) people that know more tell me so, and b) it becomes apparent when applied functionally to shit like climbing and running around with a pack on.
it becomes obvious around BW level what is just technique and what is actual development of muscle/skeletal integrity.
pullups are a good example; 10 is only form and technique, 15 is that plus cardio, +20 is from having actual strong upper body (in relation to BW like the other standards).

others here know more about all this than i do. i could be way off.
pOi - on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to andic:


Hey, you can use www.strstd.com which is very very useful for seeing how you measure up.
RockSteady on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to andic:

Guys, I'm interested in how you fit this around your climbing (OT sorry).

I used to love lifting weights but I find with climbing it's one or the other.

Usually I get in 3x a week climbing and try for 2x a week antagonist work (trying to correct postural imbalances and rehab a shoulder injury), 1x week cardio.

I guess when my shoulder is fixed I could swap the antag workouts for weights, but 2x a week isn't much for progression.

Do you train more weights in a climbing 'off-season' or just beast up and dedicate most of your free time to exercise?
JayPee630 - on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to andic:

I'm 75kg, train a bit, and can deadlift 150kg, and I'm in no way elite, so I'd err away from Men's Health definition, and more towards Ice Solo's.

Although having said that I do think it's best to use your own progress as a measure rather than some other invented benchmark, and inevitably you'll be stronger on some lifts (the deadlift is my strongest area) and weaker on others. I'm erring away from the benchpress towards the push/press and variants BTW.

And I'd do more weight less reps and cardio to strip the fat if you wan to be a LMKM.

Jamie B - on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to RockSteady:

> Guys, I'm interested in how you fit this around your climbing?

Me too. In fact I'm wondering if this a climbing thread at all? It does say "training" in the forum title, can I post something about the usefulness of plyometrics for rugby players?
galpinos - on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to JayPee630:

What the chuff does LMKM stand for? My google-fu is weak today.....
ice.solo - on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to RockSteady:

i climb over winter (average about 55 days between mid-november and late march) and in clusters the rest of the year.

winter is just maintenance training, to keep in condition/body mass for lumping heavy packs.

rest of the year i train to increase my capacity for next winter with a periodized 'program' that works around occasional climbing trips. i never go out just for a days cragging, so its always a few days.

lifting type stuff only makes up about 50% of my actual training.
work also includes some elements of training, so thats a bonus.
ice.solo - on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to Jamie B:
> (In reply to RockSteady)
>
> [...]
>
> Me too. In fact I'm wondering if this a climbing thread at all? It does say "training" in the forum title, can I post something about the usefulness of plyometrics for rugby players?

please do. plyometrics are interesting.
nw - on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to JayPee630:
> (In reply to andic)
>
>.
>
> Although having said that I do think it's best to use your own progress as a measure rather than some other invented benchmark, and inevitably you'll be stronger on some lifts (the deadlift is my strongest area) and weaker on others.

Agree with this. The problem with tables is that you can shop around and find ones that flatter your ego or ones that make you weak as a kitten. If you are training purely for strength the answer is easy - you are never strong enough. If your strength training is to support other activities than monitor its impact on those areas and let that be your guide.

Having said that, I will be mighty happy when I get to a 2xBW Back Squat, that is the start of strong in my head.
andic - on 28 Jun 2013
In reply to RockSteady:

I am lucky that my local wall opens at 7am so I can get a couple of morning bouldering sessions in before work Tues and Thurs on the other weekday mornings I do about 45 min of strength work, in the evenings I go to the gym or swimming with my Dorris to encourage her, I do my cardio in this session. At the weekend i try to get out into the peak cragging.

sounds like a lot and maybe it is distracting from my climbing, I enjoy climbing and train for it twice a week, I also want to be fit and strong for 'life' (moving around, running about, picking my girlfriend up) and so I train for that ~6 times a week, and it probably helps the climbing a bit.
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riddle - on 30 Jun 2013
In reply to andic:

Personally, I would start with knowing what my 1RM is before worrying about changing a program. The 1RM is the basis for all great training programs and it is something that no algorithm will tell you.

Programs like Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 will explain it all in superb detail.

Dan John suggests that a true 1RM is actually a 2RM!

Louie Simmons at Westside is also worth reading. He suggests lots and lots of reps, followed by more reps.

If you want to lift freakish weights off the floor you could also read Power to the People by Pavel Tsatouline. A little heavy on the America BS, however it is inspiring.

Good luck

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