/ What's the best route in Scotland?

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Murko Fuzz - on 29 Jun 2013
Extra points for a general good day out. Exposure in plenty; ambience; length; good moves, rock, gear etc. Imagine a longer version of Trophy Crack. You decide.
If I haven't done it, I shall soonest.
henwardian - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz: Breach of the peace. Castle Rock. Edinburgh.
Fiend - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

Pump Up The Jam, Skye (it's as long as some routes)

or failing that

Sarclet Pimpernel, Sarclet
Andy Moles - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

The Chasm (after rain).
AlH - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Andy Moles: Moles you are a sick pervert.
sebrider - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz: The north bound A74(M) ;)
Smelly Fox - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

U-Ei, The Grey Wall Recess, Pabbay.

Although Goliath, Creag an Dubh Loch, would come a close second for me.

Cheers

Trist
Jamie B - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

Suspect that this one would be right up your street: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=67068
Gets rave reviews. I bet Needle or Steeple on Shelterstone are not too shabby either; strong lines on a brilliant and towering bit of rock

Of ones that I've actually done, the Pause and Old Man of Stoer tick a lot of boxes as does Fionn Buttress, but I'm actively hoping that I've yet to climb "Scotland's best"
Robert Durran - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

You can't go too far wrong with Steeple for a mountain route or Prophecy of Drowning for a sea cliff route to satisfy yout criteria.
Fraser on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

Stock UKC reply should be 'the one having the most fun'.
Neil Adams - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz: Last time there was a thread like this, I voted for Voyage of Faith. I'd stand by that, although last time someone replied saying it wasn't even the best E3 on Dun Mingulay! I hadn't done his suggestion, so it could be that VoF is only the second best route in Scotland.
Trangia - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

Old Man of Stoer
Pursued by a bear - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz: You could do worse than Centurion on the Ben; or at a more modest grade, the 3,000 foot Dubh route.

T.
Murko Fuzz - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Andy Moles:
Andy......come on now man!
Murko Fuzz - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to sebrider: too bold.
Murko Fuzz - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Jamie B:

Done The Needle, it's good, but not that good. Second pitch is irritatingly bold. Typically crumble Cairgorm granite crystals.
Lots if different ideas so far, I wonder if there can be a bit of consencus? The Steeple seems to feature.
Has anyone done Kingpin in Glencoe?
a lakeland climber on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

In order of difficulty:

The Dubhs Ridge, Cuillin
Fionn Buttress, Carnmore
Bald Eagle, Stone Valley Crags
The Needle, Shelterstone
Steeple, Shelterstone
Spock, Sron na Ciche
Agony/Ecstasy, Etive slabs
Stairway to Heaven, Blaven

Out of those, I reckon Fionn Buttress is possibly the best, closely followed by Agony/Ecstasy. Bald Eagle is only single pitch but is probably the best single pitch HVS I've done in Britain.

ALC
aln - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Fiend:
> (In reply to Murko
>
> Sarclet Pimpernel, Sarclet

Vote for that oh yeah
ellis - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

Of the mainland stuff, Voyage of the Beagle, Dubh Loch, is up there.

Not done it but I recon Walking on Air, Stac Pollaidh could win the prize for the talented.
Martin Bennett - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

Of those I've done the following spring instantly to mind, though of course as soon as I press the button I'll think of more!

Fionn Buttress - pure dead brilliant!

Steeple - one of my best ever leads from points of view of both quality and difficulty.

Bullroar - memorable for first belay ledge dropping off the crag seconds after I'd arrived and clipped in, leaving me dangling from a nut! But also a great route that for me edges out Centurion on the same crag at the same grade.

Old Man of Hoy - not brilliant rock or climbing but who can say it's not the finest summit in Britain or that the whole experience of getting there and doing it is not enormous fun?

Great Ridge of Garbh Bheinn of Ardgour
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m dunn - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz: Minus 1 Direct? Or maybe Trapeze?
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

I think Shibboleth with the True Finish is the best route in the UK.


Chris

IMHO of course!
edinburgh_man on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

If you've got the guns then I would guess Dalriada has to be up there?

Mothers Pride or Sugar Cane Country worth considering?
d conacher - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz: Kingpin is very good,if a bit dirty,but shibboleth(tf)is better
Murko Fuzz - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to 7bforever:

Def dont have the guns, unfortunately.
Murko Fuzz - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Chris Craggs:

Duly noted.


Lots of different suggestions, some of which I've done. I'll take those other recommendations though! Thanks all.
Robert Durran - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Neil Adams:
> (In reply to Murko Fuzz) Last time there was a thread like this, I voted for Voyage of Faith. I'd stand by that, although last time someone replied saying it wasn't even the best E3 on Dun Mingulay! I hadn't done his suggestion, so it could be that VoF is only the second best route in Scotland.

That was me! I thought Les Voyageurs better - a natural line, more direct and an even more utterly outragaeous top pitch on the lip of the big roof.

Robert Durran - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to Fraser:
> (In reply to Murko Fuzz)
>
> Stock UKC reply should be 'the one having the most fun'.

Eh? A route can't have fun. On the other hand, a climber, however crap, can have loads.

Robert Durran - on 29 Jun 2013
In reply to 7bforever:
> Mothers Pride or Sugar Cane Country worth considering?

If the OP wanted single pitch E4's then one probably wouldn't need to look any further, but they are hardly longer versions of Trophy Crack!

Robert Durran - on 30 Jun 2013
In reply to Smelly Fox:
> (In reply to Murko Fuzz)
>
> U-Ei, The Grey Wall Recess, Pabbay.

The astounding top pitch is better reached by the first two pitches of Paradise Regained rather than the comparatively (by Pabbay standards) ordinary first two pitches of U-Ei.
aln - on 30 Jun 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Smelly Fox)
> [...]
>
> The astounding top pitch is better reached by the first two pitches of Paradise Regained rather than the comparatively (by Pabbay standards) ordinary first two pitches of U-Ei.

Yes you've been to Pabbay. Stop showing off now
aln - on 30 Jun 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Fraser)
> [...]
>
> Eh? A route can't have fun. On the other hand, a climber, however crap, can have loads.

Being disingenuous as well.
auld al on 30 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz: what about "The Long Reach" for a classic adventure
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=4823
Murko Fuzz - on 30 Jun 2013
In reply to auld al:

Nobody's mentioned Torro or Bat. I've never done Titans' Wall. That looks amazing.
Murko Fuzz - on 30 Jun 2013
In reply to Fiend:

Pump up the Jam: looks like a Scottish version of Moabs' Crackhouse.
Smelly Fox - on 30 Jun 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Smelly Fox)
> [...]
>
> The astounding top pitch is better reached by the first two pitches of Paradise Regained rather than the comparatively (by Pabbay standards) ordinary first two pitches of U-Ei.

One to try next time! Cheers for the tip, I loved that crag!

Trist
Mollythedog - on 30 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz: Ardrevike Wall, Binean Shuas. Great climb, great day out, great views.
Mollythedog - on 30 Jun 2013
In reply to Mollythedog: Sorry, can't spell...
Robert Durran - on 30 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:
> (In reply to auld al)
>
> Nobody's mentioned Torro or Bat.

They might meet the OP's criteria (Unlike many suggestions!), but is either actually better than Steeple? Torro might just come close.....
Murko Fuzz - on 30 Jun 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Murko Fuzz)
> [...]
>
> They might meet the OP's criteria (Unlike many suggestions!), but is either actually better than Steeple? Torro might just come close.....

I feel that The Steeple is getting quite bigged-up on here, but is it better than Shibboleth (TF)?
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In reply to Murko Fuzz:
> (In reply to auld al)
>
> Nobody's mentioned Torro or Bat. I've never done Titans' Wall. That looks amazing.

I thought The Bat was a bit overrated, some great pitches, but wandering early on then above the crux it fizzles out.


Chris
Michael Gordon - on 30 Jun 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:
> (In reply to auld al)
>
> Nobody's mentioned Torro or Bat.

Yes, both are top class, 4 star routes IMO. It's all about the first 5 pitches on the Bat while Torro maintains its interest, but then the Bat is harder.

Robert Durran - on 30 Jun 2013
In reply to Chris Craggs:
> (In reply to Murko Fuzz)

> I thought The Bat was a bit overrated, some great pitches, but wandering early on then above the crux it fizzles out.

You have to think of the lower pithes as improbable, devious and brilliant route finding to reach the crux corner. But yes, it's not in the Steeple/Torro league due to its anticlimactic upper part. Titan's is superb but a different style of route.
Murko Fuzz - on 01 Jul 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:


I've thought Titans looks a little Left Wall-ish?
graeme jackson - on 01 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

the A697 back to England. :-)
johncoxmysteriously - on 01 Jul 2013
In reply to Chris Craggs:
> (In reply to Murko Fuzz)
>
> I think Shibboleth with the True Finish is the best route in the UK.

+1

Although I'm sure they have some decent stuff in the Hebrides and/or at loads of crags I've never been to.

The trouble with Titan's Wall is the E3 grade coupled with this dialogue from Extreme Rock between Cubby and Fowler.

"What did you think of it"

"Desperate! I fell off."

"So did I".

That's not exactly selling it to me.

jcm

Robert Durran - on 01 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> I've thought Titans looks a little Left Wall-ish?

More like something between Left Wall and Resurrection but with a better E1 pitch than Cemetery Gates to warm up on and provide exposure. Top end E3.

Robert Durran - on 01 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> I feel that The Steeple is getting quite bigged-up on here, but is it better than Shibboleth (TF)?

I think this thread could be summarised by saying that Steepleand Shibboleth are the best two long mountain E2ish routes in Scotland (and therefore in the UK) but that which one is better comes down to personal preference.

a lakeland climber on 01 Jul 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:

I think it was still given E4 when I did it, didn't feel hard though and you can abseil back to the deck from the top of pitch two on 50m ropes. I thought King Kong was a better route TBH.

One crag that doesn't seem to have had a mention so far is The Eastern Ramparts on Beinn Eighe (or whatever the crag with Angel Face on is called). That seems to be highly regarded and is one place I'd like to visit myself.

ALC
Simon Caldwell - on 01 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:
Of the ones I've done - Central Buttress on Beinn Eighe, with a walk to the summit afterwards.
Of the ones I haven't - Fionn Buttress. We camped at the bottom, for a few nights, but didn't climb anything due to rain and snow.
Robert Durran - on 01 Jul 2013
In reply to a lakeland climber:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> I think it was still given E4 when I did it, didn't feel hard though.

Yes, borderline E3/E4!

> I thought King Kong was a better route TBH.

Yes, a superb route, but, like the Bat, kind of fizzles out a bit (both can be curtailed after the fantastic lower pitches by abbing Titan's)

> One crag that doesn't seem to have had a mention so far is The Eastern Ramparts on Beinn Eighe (or whatever the crag with Angel Face on is called).

Angel Face always comes up as one of the top mountain E2's along with Steeple, Shibboleth and Torro. It is utterly brilliant, but, being shorter, is tricky to compare. Pale Diedre is right up there too at E2!
Slugain Howff - on 01 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

Eagle Ridge on Lochnagar with the right companion makes for a fine mountaineering day out.

S
andy farnell - on 01 Jul 2013
In reply to graeme jackson:
> (In reply to Murko Fuzz)
>
> the A697 back to England. :-)

Seconded ;)

Andy F
Murko Fuzz - on 01 Jul 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:

I've always fancied Shibboleth, but keep forgetting about it when wondering what to do. When I get to it I shall think, 'this could be the best route in Scotland'; and we'll see how it goes. I recall Davy Gunn commenting somewhere that not so very long ago an ascent of that route got you handshakes all round in the Kingshouse.

Euge - on 02 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:
> Extra points for a general good day out. Exposure in plenty; ambience; length; good moves, rock, gear etc. Imagine a longer version of Trophy Crack. You decide.
> If I haven't done it, I shall soonest.

Easy... Centurion, Carn Dearg (Ben Nevis)

E
johncoxmysteriously - on 02 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> I recall Davy Gunn commenting somewhere that not so very long ago an ascent of that route got you handshakes all round in the Kingshouse.

In some countries it would have got you a beer..... <insert offensive joke about Scots not buying their round here.>

jcm

submariner - on 02 Jul 2013
In reply to Smelly Fox:
> (In reply to Murko Fuzz)
>
> U-Ei, The Grey Wall Recess, Pabbay.
>
> Although Goliath, Creag an Dubh Loch, would come a close second for me.
>
> Cheers
>
> Trist

Having climbed Goliath on Sunday I have to agree this is one of, if not the best mountain HVS i've done, not sure why its only given 2 star. The two "4b" pitches felt harder than the crux too!
johncoxmysteriously - on 02 Jul 2013
In reply to submariner:

I thought Goliath had been wiped out/changed/rendered unpleasant and dangerous/something by the Giant rockfall. Was I just totally wrong about that?

jcm
dek - on 02 Jul 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to submariner)
>
> I thought Goliath had been wiped out/changed/rendered unpleasant and dangerous/something by the Giant rockfall. Was I just totally wrong about that?
>
> jcm

Are you not thinking of Cougar, which recently had the big rockfall?

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=517784
johncoxmysteriously - on 02 Jul 2013
In reply to dek:

No, there was a rockfall on Giant a few years ago which wiped out half the crux corner of that route, and I did think had impacted on Goliath as well (probably just my mistake). It's actually referred to on the thread you link.

jcm
Goucho on 02 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz: I think grade for grade, Agags Groove takes some beating.
antonymcphillips - on 02 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz: M74 South bound?
estivoautumnal - on 02 Jul 2013
In reply to mcphillipsa391:

As long as you connect up all of the other M's to Dover and then take a ferry to France I fully agree.
Murko Fuzz - on 02 Jul 2013
In reply to Goucho: Agreed.
aln - on 02 Jul 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to Murko Fuzz)
> . <insert offensive joke about Scots not buying their round here.>
>
> jcm
Apart from the cheap Scot jibe I've never understood that particular stereotype. The tradition in Scottish pub culture I've experienced for 35 years that is we all take our turn in buying a round. On the other hand I've known groups of English people who always buy their own drinks and no-one elses.

graeme jackson - on 03 Jul 2013
In reply to aln:
> pub culture I've experienced for 35 years

So you started drinking at 14? A bit late for Bo'ness eh?
Rick Sewards - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

I don't imagine it's the best route in Scotland (have yet to do most of the routes suggested above) but as nobody has mentioned The Big Top on Aonach Dubh's West Face I will - just wild for the grade, and I'm not sure I can think of any routes that had as much impact on me at the time. Trapeze is pretty special too.

Of the ones suggested above that I've done, I agree that it's difficult to imagine a VDiff better than Agag's Groove.

Rick
Cam Forrest on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:
> (In reply to Murko Fuzz)
>
>
> Of the ones suggested above that I've done, I agree that it's difficult to imagine a VDiff better than Agag's Groove.
>
>Not answering "the best route in Scotland", but it would be good if folks got around a bit more on the easy grades, like they do on the harder ones. So VDiffs better than Agag's - Sou'wester Slabs and (wild card) The Wabe.

In reply to Murko Fuzz:

Has no-one mentioned The Scoop on Strone Ulladale?

http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=3986

8 pitches, takes a devious line of weakness, incredible exposure, superb varied climbing... in a stunningly beautiful setting.
Simon Caldwell - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Cam Forrest:
> So VDiffs better than Agag's - Sou'wester Slabs

Great Ridge Direct on Garbh Bheinn (though it's been upgraded to Severe for some reason).

As classics go, I didn't think Agag's stood out particularly. I loved it at the time, but can't remember much of it now (only 4 years on), whereas I still vividly recall Great Ridge Direct from 12 years ago, and Sou'wester Slabs from the mid 1990s!
a lakeland climber on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Tom Briggs - Jagged Globe:

I wish I'd done it so that I could recommend it :-(

ALC
prog99 on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Toreador:
> (In reply to Cam Forrest)
> [...]
>
> Great Ridge Direct on Garbh Bheinn (though it's been upgraded to Severe for some reason).
The non direct may be vdiff but the direct is definitely felt severe. I remember a tricky move on the 2nd pitch which Dan Baily described as "climb with interest".
Anyway, how about squareface for best vdiff?
Simon Caldwell - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Mike_Watson_99:
indirect is Diff I think.
Other than the very start (which I think was marked wrong in the topo) I don't remember anything that felt out of place on a VDiff - but it was a few years ago :-)

> Anyway, how about squareface for best vdiff?

Still on my to-do list...
Murko Fuzz - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Tom Briggs - Jagged Globe:

The Scoop is something I'd love to do! Realistically I'm never going to be capable of climbing it free. With clean aid where necessary Inthink it'd be an amazing adventure. Outwith midge season though!
Murko Fuzz - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:


Yep, I think Trapeze is great. If only it were a bit more sustained. V Diffs wise I reckon Cioch Nose easily rivals Agags. Not done Sou' Wester Slabs. Looks a belter.
Rick Graham on 05 Jul 2013
> Anyway, how about squareface for best vdiff?

Not a bad call. Relatively short but quality all the way.

A lot of Scottish routes tail off after a couple of good pitches.

Shibboleth
Steeple
Torro
Centurion
Titans Wall ( abb off)
Kingpin
Temple of Doom ( could not find P2)
Yo Yo

will not disappoint in this respect.

Rick Graham on 05 Jul 2013
add Freak Out
Rick Graham on 05 Jul 2013
and Eagle Ridge
AlH - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz: Cioch Nose is definitely Severe, especially if at all damp (I say this with the benefit of getting back to the car from it 2 and a half hours ago :-)
johncoxmysteriously - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to AlH:

>Cioch Nose is definitely Severe, especially if at all damp

Or if your team's combined sixty years of experience are insufficient to prevent you from starting off the wrong terrace entirely.....

jcm
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drunken monkey - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz: You need to go do Sou'wester slabs if you ever ead back to Arran. Great route.

Another vote for Great Ridge Direct on Garbh Bheinn, Ardgour.
Murko Fuzz - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to drunken monkey:

My lasting recollection of Great Ridge is of Jamie B physically choking on midges.

(In reply to Rick Graham):

So what could we say is the most sustained, or perhaps rather continuously interesting route? It's got to be a sea cliff? Or a long slab.
Rick Graham on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

Shibboleth.
Murko Fuzz - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Rick Graham:

I thought perhaps, and was hoping, you'd say that.
Rick Graham on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

Not totally convinced by the "true finish" though.

Done Bludgers rev, shibb twice, apocalypse, apparition, true finish and Guerdon grooves. They are all good. The two direct ish finishes to Shibboleth both good finales to the lower pitches.

Must get back and do it again. Be nice though to get P2 dry.
pamph - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz: Surprised no-one appears to have mentioned Dragon or Gob. Gob, at VS is a belter with three good pitches and an wonderfully exposed third pitch. But there are too many to list in Scotland. I have done a lot of the recommended routes in this thread, and they are all worth a punt.
Murko Fuzz - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Rick Graham:

You're a man that knows Slime Wall then! The former dry spell might have been a good time, everything was parched. Maybe even Slime Wall. At the time I was enjoying Skye. Not too much dry here at the moment.

Haven't been to Carnmore; it's on the radar though.
Rick Graham on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

Not really. Just been reading the Glencoe guide on the loo.
Still the 2 E1s on the left and Lechers Sup to do.

Will need the boy to get me up New Testament.

I've been lost on Nightmare Traverse twice.

Last time I was there seemed a few fixed ab points on the left, any body know useful these are?
aln - on 06 Jul 2013
In reply to graeme jackson:
> (In reply to aln)
> [...]
>
> So you started drinking at 14? A bit late for Bo'ness eh?

Unlike most people I didn't start drinking at 14. I waited till I was 15. You're probably right about Bo'ness but I'm not sure coz I've only lived here for a couple of years. Fair day was mental. A whole town getting drunk was an experience.
Murko Fuzz - on 06 Jul 2013
In reply to Rick Graham:

Every civilised lavvy has some climbing material to read. Mrs Fuzz and I are having an ongoing battle in this regard. She doesn't see it in the same way that us gentlemen do. Despite her being a climber.
Don't know about the ab points.
Andy Moles - on 06 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

OK if I'm serious then I'll give another vote to Steeple, narrowly beating Torro and I haven't done Shibboleth yet.
220bpm on 06 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

Indeed, Gob, Centurion and King Cobra are my top 3.

Elite.
pete3685 - on 07 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:A Prophesy of Drowning on Pabbay
Murko Fuzz - on 07 Jul 2013
In reply to 220bpm: indeed King Cobra is a cracker, that whole crag is and I look forward to more climbing there.
Robert Durran - on 29 Jul 2013
In reply to Rick Graham:

> A lot of Scottish routes tail off after a couple of good pitches.

A sligtly harsh and sweepinmg statement - no more true than of anywhere else (Gogarth main cliff is a particularly oobvious example!).
Tim Chappell - on 29 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:


The best two routes I've done in Scotland are Integrity on Sron na Ciche, and Mouse Trap on Creag an Dubh-Loch. Both tick all your boxes.
Jon Stewart - on 29 Jul 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Rick Graham)
>
> [...]
>
> A sligtly harsh and sweepinmg statement - no more true than of anywhere else (Gogarth main cliff is a particularly oobvious example!).

The steep grass is the best bit!
Tim Chappell - on 29 Jul 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Talking of which, the worst route I've done in Scotland is Bollard Buttress Direct at Polney. First you climb up a damp wall which is interesting only in the sense that it's gear-free. Then you climb up a steep grass slope, longer than the climb itself, which is interesting only in the sense that you are going to die if your rock-boots slip. It's a death-fest. Don't go near it.
johncoxmysteriously - on 29 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

Haven't read the thread and am probably repeating, but the traditional winners on this question are:-

Fionn Buttress
Minus One Direct with the Arete variation
Torro
Shibboleth with the True finish.
Prophecy of Drowning

You could do worse than tick those off and report back.

jcm
MrRiley - on 29 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

The first two pitches of Scabbard are some of the best climbing I've done yet. If only the route was longer it could be a candidate for Scotland's best VS perhaps?! Mousetrap is also superb but I thought the rock was a bit too suspect in places which detracted slightly.
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Tim Chappell - on 29 Jul 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


Slightly different question: what's the route in Scotland that people most want to do?

For me: Rat Trap, the Dubhs Ridge, Ardverikie Wall, Cioch Nose, January Jigsaw, everything in jcm's list, and, let's face it, repeats of Integrity and Mouse Trap :-)
Michael Gordon - on 29 Jul 2013
In reply to MrRiley:
> (In reply to Murko Fuzz)
>
> The first two pitches of Scabbard are some of the best climbing I've done yet. If only the route was longer it could be a candidate for Scotland's best VS perhaps?! Mousetrap is also superb but I thought the rock was a bit too suspect in places which detracted slightly.

Yes the middle pitches of those Etchachan routes are superb - the Dagger one is one of the best corner pitches around IMO.

I still think the best VS I've done is Angel's Edgeway into the top jam crack of Squareface.
MrRiley - on 29 Jul 2013
In reply to Michael Gordon:

Interesting! After having done Squareface (with the surely superior direct finish up the crack) I was put off going back in for Angels due to the guidebook description of it being just variations on SF. Sounds like it's worthwhile in it's own right though? It's such a brilliant piece of rock that!
Al Evans on 29 Jul 2013
In reply to Murko Fuzz: How can you beat The Old Man Of Hoy, or maybe The Longhope Route?
Jamie B - on 29 Jul 2013
In reply to Al Evans:

> How can you beat The Old Man Of Hoy, or maybe The Longhope Route?

By doing something with clean rock? Each to their own, obviously.

Michael Gordon - on 29 Jul 2013
In reply to MrRiley:

While the 2nd pitch is good, it's maybe not worth putting it high on the list if you've already done the direct finish as that is the best pitch, no question. One of the best jamming pitches around to my mind!
Michael Gordon - on 29 Jul 2013
In reply to Jamie B:

Ah but Hoy beats most other stuff for the adventure!

I reckon that were it Torridonian sandstone, it would almost certainly be the best route of it's grade in Scotland.

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