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"aggressive fit shoes"

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Howdy,

My shoes are starting to come towards the end of their life, and I am looking for a new pair.

Do shoes with down-turned toes, as opposed to a flatter fit, really make all that much difference. I know the logic is that there's more weight being focused on the toes, which gives better force onto the rock, but I am wondering if it really makes a noticeable difference.

Also, if anyone has any shoe recommendations, they'd be much appreciated.

p.s. I get that new shoes won't turn me into Sharafutdinov, but slightly less "penguin on slippery ice" would be a start.

Thanks
Steve
 Durbs 23 Jul 2013
In reply to I'd rather be climbing:

Downturning only really comes into play on over-hanging routes where the horizontal push is also slighty changed into vertical tension, so it holds you "in" to the rock more.

Pretty ineffective (and much more painful) on long vertical routes or slabs.
In reply to I'd rather be climbing:

>Do shoes with down-turned toes, as opposed to a flatter fit, really make all that much difference.

Yes. They hurt more.

No offence intended, but c'mon, man, you're climbing V Diff. It ain't your shoes holding you back. Just get something cheap and comfortable.

jcm
 Keendan 23 Jul 2013
In reply to I'd rather be climbing:

I would say yes, they make it easier to stand on small footholds.
If the grades on your profile are correct I wouldn't pay too much yet as they won't be the limiting factor for you. Mid range will probably be helpful.

It's more important that they fit your feet than what model they are though.

 Jon Stewart 23 Jul 2013
In reply to I'd rather be climbing:

Afraid you'll just have to try and see.

Personally, I can't wear those sort of shoes at all. I've bought a couple of pairs which have ended up getting sold 'cause I just can't climb in them. I guess they're really good for climbing on a 45 deg board or something, but I don't get it.

That said, I've heard people they say they like them for climbing slabs!?! So experience must vary hugely from person to person.

As for recommendations, I think Scarpa Vapours give good balance of technicality and comfort for trad climbing. Evolvs generally are OK if you don't mind incredibly soft rubber that will go through in a matter of weeks. Lots of people swear by 5.10 Anasazis, personally I can't wear them (and for me, all 5.10 shoes feel crap for weeks, then good for a week, then fall apart).

Shoes that fit are the best. Shoes you can wear for an hour or more at a time are best for big trad routes. Shoes that are really pointy and toe-down are best for climbing very steep boulder problems with tiny footholds I guess.
In reply to I'd rather be climbing:

Thanks guys, Trad Grades on my profile are pretty old, as the last time I did any trad was around 3 years ago now. I'm bouldering at English 6a at the moment.

Thanks for the advice, I'll go for comfort then.

 CurlyStevo 23 Jul 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to I'd rather be climbing)
>
> >Do shoes with down-turned toes, as opposed to a flatter fit, really make all that much difference.
>
> Yes. They hurt more.
>
> No offence intended, but c'mon, man, you're climbing V Diff. It ain't your shoes holding you back. Just get something cheap and comfortable.
>
> jcm

more tech shoes will start making a difference about V3, seeing as the OP has bouldered V4 then perhaps they will make a difference around thnis level.

 petellis 23 Jul 2013
In reply to I'd rather be climbing:
> I'm bouldering at English 6a at the moment.

Why not try a pair (i mean buy a pair to use) and see what you think.

Down turned shoes are not down-turned any more when you stand on little edges, they can help you stand on stuff you otherwise couldn't because your feet would flop off, they aren't just for overhangs.

A nice pair of shoes may help you improve your footwork and if you are bouldering then you can take them off regularly so its doesn't matter if they aren't comfy for long routes.

There are other metrics in shoes then just toe up/down too, stiff vs sensitive, assymetric etc.

If you have good footwork you can compensate for a crap pair of shoes to a large extent.

Most of my peers seemed to go through a "tight shoes are amazing" and "i need 3 or four pairs of different shoes" epiphanys at about the 1-3 years climbing mark. At about 5 years they still have many pairs but more and more times they reach for the comfy shoes and comfort plays a role in the shoe buying....

 CurlyStevo 23 Jul 2013
In reply to petellis:
really tight shoes at the level I climb (up to E1, V3 or F6c ish) make less than a + sport grade of difference for 99.9% of the climbs I do, I always go for comfy shoes.
 petellis 23 Jul 2013
In reply to CurlyStevo:
> (In reply to petellis)
> really tight shoes at the level I climb (up to E1, V3 or F6c ish) make less than a + sport grade of difference for 99.9% of the climbs I do, I always go for comfy shoes.


Me too, I'm done with really tight, I go for a nice fit for outdoor shoes (soft and smeary down turned for bouldering, less so for routes) and as stiff and foot shaped as i can find for routes at the wall where it really doesn't matter (sportiva cliff 5at the moment, yet another pair of shoes they stopped making!).

The OP isn't talking about tight shoes (although i admit I brought that into the equation). If they are bouldering they may learn a lot from a different type of shoe though. I don't think there is much to loose in trying.
 stonemaster 23 Jul 2013
In reply to I'd rather be climbing: Yes is the short answer. Changed one's life compared to when one was using a pair of turned-UP shoes! Good luck.
 Ally Smith 23 Jul 2013
In reply to petellis:

> Most of my peers seemed to go through a "tight shoes are amazing" and "i need 3 or four pairs of different shoes" epiphanys at about the 1-3 years climbing mark. At about 5 years they still have many pairs but more and more times they reach for the comfy shoes and comfort plays a role in the shoe buying....

Really - I think i'm running 5 pairs of "front line" shoes at the moment, with at least that again in mostly knackered "wall" boots...

Fit wise - tight is right operating at my limit, other wise its comfort. I'll happily climb at 80% of my limit in a pair of shows a whole size bigger than a performance fit.

To the OP: Down-turned boots are BOSS! Even on slabs i'll reach for a pair of Scarpa Boosters or Magos. Supersteep = 5.10 Dragons. these have all got generally crap heels, so on anything with hard heel hooking = La Sportiva Muira's.

In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to I'd rather be climbing)
>
> Afraid you'll just have to try and see.
>
> Personally, I can't wear those sort of shoes at all. I've bought a couple of pairs which have ended up getting sold 'cause I just can't climb in them. I guess they're really good for climbing on a 45 deg board or something, but I don't get it.
>
> That said, I've heard people they say they like them for climbing slabs!?! So experience must vary hugely from person to person.
>

I've got down-turned feet, so down-turned shoes fit me perfectly. And I mostly climb slabs 'cause I'm too fat/weak/lazy to climb anything steep
 stonemaster 23 Jul 2013
In reply to C Chestwig; Treacherous climber: +1 to that
Removed User 23 Jul 2013
In reply to I'd rather be climbing:

Why not try Katanas or something similar? Not too aggressive, but still precise enough. I did quite some 7c sport routes in them (even 8b couple of years ago) and never felt the need for more aggressive shoes. As someone has already pointed out, the best shoes are the comfortable ones.
 cha1n 23 Jul 2013
In reply to I'd rather be climbing:

Downturned shoes start making a difference at V3? What utter nonsense!

I bet any top climber could climb at or near their limit in this guy's current shoes (assuming they fit of course). That's not to say that they'd want to do it all the time...
 Hay 23 Jul 2013
In reply to cha1n:
I always think that is a strange argument.
V3 is 5b(ish), thems some pretty wee holds if you meet them on a trad route.
Tight downtoe shoes have changed the way people climb on all sorts of terrain. Get the right ones and they will reward good footwork. This will make the wearer a better climber.

 Joel Perkin 23 Jul 2013
In reply to I'd rather be climbing: I wouldn't bother unless you are climbing top end super steep routes. I personally don't think they make much difference and mine now have no down turn. However you ought to just try a few on and just find what fits best.
 Hay 23 Jul 2013
In reply to Joel Perkin:
> (In reply to I'd rather be climbing) I wouldn't bother unless you are climbing top end super steep routes.

See thats just not true. I pottered up Auld Nick in a pair of (very) worn in Magos last month.
Now Im sure I could have managed in Sausalitos but it would not have been as much fun.
The Magos are old but they are still accurate and are now brilliant at scumming and smudging.

 KingStapo 23 Jul 2013
In reply to I'd rather be climbing:

I bought some 5.10 Teams. Admitadly I should've gone half a size up, but all in all they're a complete pile of shit on most bouldering problems that don't involve you being completely upside down. And trying to apply power through the toes is agony, so edging on anything less steep than 30degrees overhang is out. And smearing is not possible, so a crucial climbing technique is no longer available to you.

Of course my experience may be tainted by them being a bit too tight. I'd recommend some Anasazis and work on your core strength and get used to keeping your arms straight when on an overhang so they don't get tired.
In reply to I'd rather be climbing: I think I feel a trip to the climbing shoe shop coming on. Thanks for the advise, I think I'll see if there's a comfy middleground.
 CharlieMack 24 Jul 2013
In reply to I'd rather be climbing:

I went through the tight is right stage and am now of the opinion that comfy is right. Ive got 3 pairs of shoes that I use for different things.
I think a general shoe like a scarpa vapour or sportiva miura would be what you're after. As I use mine 90 percent of the time even on steep stuff. Then got some aggressive shoes like scarpa boosters for edging. Which as many have posted are as useful on slabs as steep routes. Where you're edging more than smearing.

They each have their own uses so if you can get one of each you'll be laughing.

The argument that you need to climb certain level for aggressive shoes is silly. Though using top end aggressive shoes like teams or solutions on v1s I can agree is silly.

Get some comfy (but not baggy) aggressive shoes and have a play. I'm sure you will notice the difference straight away.

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