UKC

I'm going to Chamonix at the start of September with my University Mountaineering Club for 10 days and would like some advice on what I'll be able to do.

There may be a couple of people that are more experienced mountaineers that myself but I'm not sure what their plans are so I'm going to assume that the experience of the group is less than mine.

I have been to Chamonix and the alps once before and successfully summitted Mt Blanc - this trip included some other peaks such as the Weissmeiss as part of a group. From this, and some time spent in Scotland in Winter I'm what I guess you'd call a 'competent second' - I know how to use crampons, an ice axe (and climbing axes), I know how to tie in and move together on a rope and I've got the kit. I'm happy to lead a group in summer conditions (ML training course) but I have never led a group in winter. I'm not experienced with winter navigation, nor would I know what to do if someone fell down a crevasse.
So, this is my problem - whilst I'm in Cham I want to be doing Alpine stuff but I'm not confident in my ability to lead anything with dangers such as crevasses whilst being responsible for a group (2 people +). What would more experienced people recommend? I'm happy to watch some dvds, read some books (which I have) and practice crevasse rescue and similar things.
Will the conditions at the start of September permit much Alpine walking/climbing or am I worrying about something that won't be available anyway?

Also, I've heard that there's decent Sport climbing in the Chamonix valley, which I'm keen to do, although whilst I'm in the alps I'd like to be doing Alpine stuff - I have lead E3s altho I haven't done much outdoor sport. Is the sport climbing there a worthwhile alternative to the Alpine stuff?

Thanks for the help,

Theo.

In reply to hstmoore:

You can hire everything you need, apart from experience, from the gear shops - avalanche transceivers, etc, etc.

Why not club together in small groups and hire a guide for a couple of days to teach you what you need to know and get some good advice on where to practice on some easy stuff and move on from there?

In reply to hstmoore: Buy the Alpine Essentials DVD from the BMC then get the Montenvers train up to the Mer de Glace where you can practice in a relatively safe, controlled environment until you feel confident.

There is sports climbing in the Chamonix Valley but it would be a long way down my list of possible sports climbing venues.

In reply to hstmoore:

Do what the other poster says and get together and have a guide show you what you want to know for a day. Search here: http://www.bmg.org.uk/ Beware of people who suggest going out with an 'experienced' climber. I see 'experienced' climbers every day, and frankly they often scare the living daylights out of me... Or do as Grid north suggests and do as much reading as you can then go to the Mer de Glace and practice it in complete safety.

The sport climbing in the Chamonix valley itself is pretty poor. A short drive (20mins) or bus ride (the train is off till December) over the col des Montets takes you to Vallorcine. There is some fabulous climbing here.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=1951
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=2047
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=4079

In reply to jon: Disagree; climbing in the Aiguilles Rouges is magnificent! Certainly as close as Vallorcine using uplift.

In reply to hstmoore:
If rock climbing is the group's strength, one option has to be to enjoy some of the easier multi-pitch rock climbs at alpine scale, but without the ice/snow. The Aiguilles Rouges classics have a good range of grades from airy scramble (crochues traverse) upwards. And there are some nice walks too. For the climbs you just need to be confident abseiling and be sensible on the walk-in and walk-out.
Or do your crevasse research and go for some easy snow/mixed practice. The walk-in to the Couvercle hut is magnificent and eventful and the mer de glace usually straightforward (but September blizzards can happen). The Tour glacer and ascent of Aig du Tour is another option (usually well-trodden). Or of course the cosmiques arete is a v popular option for a small competent group looking for a first alpine route.

In reply to thomm: What about rock routes such as those on the M ? from memory the descent is quite easy (but it was a long time ago) - or the Arête de Papillon on the Peigne? & no doubte many other similar rock routes in an alpine setting

In reply to Doug:
Agree, both cracking options for competent VS climbers, with straightforward approaches. M is maybe 6-7 pitches and Papillons is a bit longer at 12 pitches (but can ab off the side halfway). But the Rouges has some easier options like l'Index which would be worth doing first to adjust to the scale.

In reply to thomm:

Be aware that the l'index gets ridiculously busy and you'll have people climbing all over your ropes, which isn't fun.
I also found some of the rock a bit loose in places too
Having said that if you can do it really early/late, it's a cracking route

In reply to goose299:
I haven't done it myself, but when I was looking at it I was told the trick was bivying up there for the night so you can either do it before the first cable car arrives in the morning or after the last one goes down in the evening, and do other stuff for the rest of the day.

In reply to thomm:
The Moine is also nice - mostly rock, easy access, good hut and absolutely stunning views. It's not a "first" route, but is certainly good if fit and reasonably confident on alpine rock as a second or third route.
There's a video somewhere on the internet....
youtube.com/watch?v=58WyNi9q1-A&
In fact, the walk up to hut is worthwhile by itself, either via the balcon or via the egralets (or both as a round trip)

In reply to m dunn:


Well of course it is. But it's not what most people think of as sport climbing. Read my post again. I said 'the sport climbing in the Chamonix valley itself...' That means in the valley and not in the Aiguilles Rouges.

In reply to hstmoore:

Some good advice above and it looks like your approach is solid. One further thing to add would be that whilst it's great to be ambitious and keen, that can be a first class way of getting into serious trouble, especially on predominantly rock routes where you feel you ought to be climbing at something like the equivalent to your home rock grade.

So don't be embarrassed to take your group on easy, trade routes such as the Aiguille du Tour: the reason they are trade routes isn't just because they are easy but because they are also interesting climbs that lead to good view points. The AC guidebook will help you work out which are good, "safe", introductory routes, though the mountains have changed since it was published so it'll be worth checking current conditions at the Guides' Office in Cham.

And if you haven't come across it, John Barry's instructional book on alpine climbing is a bit old (you should be able to find second hand copies easily enough) but it's inspiring, has good advice, and will help you think yourself into the right frame of mind.

In reply to pneame:
Agree, super walk-in, though the dreaded egralets will sort the mountaineers from the scaredy-cats with possible group-splitting results. Also agree on the post about not being too ambitious.. when learning, the trade-routes are your friend.

In reply to thomm: Agreed - the egralets or the balcon ladders opposite Montenvers are great at getting to see whether people can handle the often astonishing exposure.
Safely.
In fact, the Montenvers ladders are not a bad leveler in themselves! I can still remember a very good friend of mine - a better climber than me (although that is damning with faint praise) on getting to the ladders -
"Do we rope up here?"
"Errr... not usually...."

In reply to hstmoore:
Good advice from others about rock climbing. Also, Mer de Glace is good for practicing axe / crampon / ice climbing and crevasse rescue as a group as it is a dry glacier. However, don't stop there. Consider going somewhere like the Albert Premier Hut where you can quickly access a wet glacier and try out rigging snow belays ( as opposed to ice ) and then crevasse rescue skills on a wet glacier. Fun as a group activity, you can all learn together and then be confident you can tackle those alpine routes and cope with glacial approaches

In reply to pneame:

+1 for the Moine, I think it was my first alpine route though.

In reply to hstmoore: A lot of good advice from other bloggers.

A must buy book is Bruce Goodlad's 'Alpine Mountaineering', great diagrams & pics It is totally up to date and is easy to read.

Servoz is a cracking sports crag it is a few miles down the valley from Chamonix.

Other routes worth a mention is the Petite Aiguille Verte. and Point Lachenal. If you are going to do the Aiguille du Tour you could also do Tete Blanche from the Albert Premier hut.

A good guide book to get for easy routes is 'Mont-Blanc easy ascents and glacier hikes' published by Vamos.