In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart) Ok, it's still trad climbing, but sadly from my point of view the adventure aspect of it seems to have been lost.
It's the passage of time. Thousands of people have now climbed these routes and plastered information about them all over the internet - that's just how it is. It would be perverse not to make use of the information.
> I really can't understand why if you need it all cut and dried you just don't stick to sport climbing.
Don't be so over-the-top. Sport climbing involves taking all the fun out climbing, not just the adventure
But seriously, trad climbing, even its emasculated modern form with photo-topos and internet beta is still a wonderful, rich experience, regardless of whether you happen to think it's 'adventurous' or not. And if I wanted to do adventure climbing, I could do, I'd have to travel further and seek out more obscure places, but I could if I wanted to.
> the trad classics with such a huge amount of beta that otherwise you won't set foot on them just seems a mockery of all we used to understand as 'trad'.
It doesn't make a mockery of it, it's just that what were once adventurous routes have become classics, and classics for good reasons. They can still be bold, scary, thrilling routes, even if they're no longer cutting edge.
'Adventure' in climbing is a sliding scale from 0 in bouldering and sport where it's just about isolating the difficulty of the moves, to the other end new routing on choss a thousand miles from the nearest road. Classic UK trad is somewhere on that scale, and as an enthusiast for places like South Stack and as the person who can never find a partner for Carn Gowler, I don't really think I'm a particularly appropriate target for your moaning about how trad has gone to hell in a handcart.
Please could you direct your complaints towards someone who won't look further than Stanage, the Pass and Tremadoc in future.