UKC

If a boulder problem or sport route crux is described as having x many moves, does this refer to any movement of hands and feet, just moves for hands and are small but necessary readjustments included in the total?

In reply to JohnV: There's no sensible definition of a move. If it says it's 5 moves that's just a rough guess.

In reply to JohnV:

I am pretty sure it includes any movement of the eyes as well.

In reply to The Pylon King:
Brilliant!

In reply to The Pylon King:
Or Bowel.

In reply to JohnV:

'A move' is the transition between positions on the rock. Imagine a body stable on the rock, then imagine the next place it can be stable on the rock. All the space between these two points is a move. The perfect route theoretically would be one that had no such positions of stability - thus only one monumental single move.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

Eh?

In reply to Franco Cookson:

Okay, to elaborate on my comment above; I think you're confusing 'move' and 'sequence'.

Certainly, a route which consisted entirely of movement between unstable positions, which had no rest points, would be very difficult (I wouldn't call it perfect per se), but I would say it was one long sequence, not one move.

It might be better to define a move is the bit between two metastable* positions, and use your definition as that of a sequence.

This doesn't really provide a useful definition of a move, but as there are so many different kinds of move to make, can we really come up with one?

*By metastable, I mean a position which is stable temporarily, but uses too much static muscle power or puts the body in too strange a position to be a useful rest - you must move on, or you will get tired and fall off.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

This is the sort of stuff that Dawes does.

In reply to The Pylon King:

It's certainly the sort of stuff he talks about...

In reply to Arms Cliff:

Until you show him how?

In reply to JohnV: Moves but refures to hand movement. But may change if people use differnt beta. Foot movements arn't usually mentioned.

In reply to stewieatb:

I think he means where you can't settle and need to keep moving, in a dynamically upwards sort of way?

I guess they'd need to be certain kinds of moves.

In reply to Beastly Squirrel:
I've done routes where the crux is a foot move though.

In reply to JohnV:

There's no standard, the best bet is to ask.

Most folk seem to refer to hand moves from one hold the next which can be quite a good description of the effort required or spectacularly poor.

jk