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I just couldn't face Salmond and his chip shouldered tribe.
Advantages.
Nicer weather.
Better pubs.
More airports, cheaper foreign travel.
Less neds.
Etc.
If it wasn't for the hills I'd already be there. Sorry SNP.
Advantages.
Nicer weather.
Better pubs.
More airports, cheaper foreign travel.
Less neds.
Etc.
If it wasn't for the hills I'd already be there. Sorry SNP.
In reply to estivoautumnal:
Ooooh controversial!!!
> I just couldn't face Salmond and his chip shouldered tribe.
>
> Advantages.
>
> Nicer weather.
> Better pubs.
> More airports, cheaper foreign travel.
> Less neds.
> Etc.
>
> If it wasn't for the hills I'd already be there. Sorry SNP.
>
> Advantages.
>
> Nicer weather.
> Better pubs.
> More airports, cheaper foreign travel.
> Less neds.
> Etc.
>
> If it wasn't for the hills I'd already be there. Sorry SNP.
Ooooh controversial!!!
In reply to estivoautumnal:
Depends on wher you live....warmer yes but ther are parts of Scotland with incredibly low rainfall.
Rwally...not in my experience.
So younwant to move to England so you can get away from it.....
Sounds like my neighbourhood. Maybe you should explore you nation more before abandoning it.
What does that mean?
What a sad excuse.....
Not that it will happen anyway...
>
> Advantages.
>
> Nicer weather.
> Advantages.
>
> Nicer weather.
Depends on wher you live....warmer yes but ther are parts of Scotland with incredibly low rainfall.
> Better pubs.
Rwally...not in my experience.
> More airports, cheaper foreign travel.
So younwant to move to England so you can get away from it.....
> Less neds.
Sounds like my neighbourhood. Maybe you should explore you nation more before abandoning it.
> Etc.
What does that mean?
>
> If it wasn't for the hills I'd already be there. Sorry SNP.
> If it wasn't for the hills I'd already be there. Sorry SNP.
What a sad excuse.....
Not that it will happen anyway...
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
I hate them.
On mine now after taking the laptop with me at bath time an hour ago.
Oops.
> (In reply to Father Noel Furlong)
>
> Fecking iPad...a nightmare for spelling mistakes!!!
>
> Fecking iPad...a nightmare for spelling mistakes!!!
I hate them.
On mine now after taking the laptop with me at bath time an hour ago.
Oops.
In reply to estivoautumnal:
Not if ukip get in down here you can't.
You can jolly well sod off back to bagpipe-bagpipe land.
Not if ukip get in down here you can't.
You can jolly well sod off back to bagpipe-bagpipe land.
In reply to knthrak1982:
Hello... UKIP? United Kingdom Independence Party...doh!!
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
>
> Not if ukip get in down here you can't.
> You can jolly well sod off back to bagpipe-bagpipe land.
>
> Not if ukip get in down here you can't.
> You can jolly well sod off back to bagpipe-bagpipe land.
Hello... UKIP? United Kingdom Independence Party...doh!!
In reply to estivoautumnal:
I've been half thinking the opposite as somebody living in England, Derby born and 'Sheffield bred'. (In quotes because I don't know if I can claim to be not having been born here.)
Anyway, Scotland seems to have got the right idea from what I've heard and read, with things like education and health care, and what people pay and how/when, and generally being 'nicer' in a seeing society as something where people look out for each other kind of way.
I doubt I will move to Scotland, but there's a few things I like about it other than the landscapes.
I've been half thinking the opposite as somebody living in England, Derby born and 'Sheffield bred'. (In quotes because I don't know if I can claim to be not having been born here.)
Anyway, Scotland seems to have got the right idea from what I've heard and read, with things like education and health care, and what people pay and how/when, and generally being 'nicer' in a seeing society as something where people look out for each other kind of way.
I doubt I will move to Scotland, but there's a few things I like about it other than the landscapes.
In reply to Gone for good:
Well yes, at the moment. But if Scotland gain independence (as in the original question)...
> (In reply to knthrak1982)
> [...]
>
> Hello... UKIP? United Kingdom Independence Party...doh!!
> [...]
>
> Hello... UKIP? United Kingdom Independence Party...doh!!
Well yes, at the moment. But if Scotland gain independence (as in the original question)...
In reply to Timmd: Have you ever lived here? There are plus points but your impressions seem a bit rose tinted-social problems are as bad if not worse than England.
To the OP I'm moving soon- I'll let you know how Englandshire really compares!!
To the OP I'm moving soon- I'll let you know how Englandshire really compares!!
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
Norrie Muir once commented that it'd be impossible for Scotland to have nicer pubs than are found in England, in places like the Lake District for example. He could be mean and unfriendly, but I can imagine him having spent a lot of time in Scottish pubs.
If there's one thing England does well it's friendly pubs with a sense of place.
The Six Bells in Bishop's Castle in Shropshire is worth a visit if you're ever passing, the land lady pretended to throw me out for wearing a rival pub's t-shirt. It has a nice atmosphere and they brew their own beer.
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
Norrie Muir once commented that it'd be impossible for Scotland to have nicer pubs than are found in England, in places like the Lake District for example. He could be mean and unfriendly, but I can imagine him having spent a lot of time in Scottish pubs.
If there's one thing England does well it's friendly pubs with a sense of place.
The Six Bells in Bishop's Castle in Shropshire is worth a visit if you're ever passing, the land lady pretended to throw me out for wearing a rival pub's t-shirt. It has a nice atmosphere and they brew their own beer.
In reply to knthrak1982:
Interesting point. So no UK or GB if Scotland gain independence. Therefore no UKIP. I wonder what Farage plans to name his party then?
> (In reply to Wanderer100)
> [...]
>
> Well yes, at the moment. But if Scotland gain independence (as in the original question)...
> [...]
>
> Well yes, at the moment. But if Scotland gain independence (as in the original question)...
Interesting point. So no UK or GB if Scotland gain independence. Therefore no UKIP. I wonder what Farage plans to name his party then?
In reply to estivoautumnal:
ohh this has potential. Not so much pulling the pin on a grenade and lobbing it as randomly typing in coordinates into trident and hitting the big red button.
ohh this has potential. Not so much pulling the pin on a grenade and lobbing it as randomly typing in coordinates into trident and hitting the big red button.
In reply to Timmd:
Your probably right......Norrie we miss you.
Noted thanks, but highly unlikely....
> (In reply to Father Noel Furlong)
> [...]
>
> Norrie Muir once commented that it'd be impossible for Scotland to have nicer pubs than are found in England, in places like the Lake District for example. He could be mean and unfriendly, but I can imagine him having spent a lot of time in Scottish pubs.
> [...]
>
> Norrie Muir once commented that it'd be impossible for Scotland to have nicer pubs than are found in England, in places like the Lake District for example. He could be mean and unfriendly, but I can imagine him having spent a lot of time in Scottish pubs.
Your probably right......Norrie we miss you.
>
>
> The Six Bells in Bishop's Castle in Shropshire is worth a visit if you're ever passing, the land lady pretended to throw me out for wearing a rival pub's t-shirt. It has a nice atmosphere and they brew their own beer.
>
> The Six Bells in Bishop's Castle in Shropshire is worth a visit if you're ever passing, the land lady pretended to throw me out for wearing a rival pub's t-shirt. It has a nice atmosphere and they brew their own beer.
Noted thanks, but highly unlikely....
In reply to dissonance: No reply from tjet OP yet either...could be a high scorer
In reply to Gone for good:
I was implying that, if Scotland becomes independent and UKIP becomes the government of the United Kingdom (of England, Wales and Northern Ireland), then the Scots would be another lot of EU migrants. So the OP might not be allowed to "become English".
My comment wad not intended to be taken seriously
I was implying that, if Scotland becomes independent and UKIP becomes the government of the United Kingdom (of England, Wales and Northern Ireland), then the Scots would be another lot of EU migrants. So the OP might not be allowed to "become English".
My comment wad not intended to be taken seriously
In reply to MG:
No I haven't. I'm quite sure they are rose tinted, and that things may change after independence, and that social problems can be very bad indeed. It's more just that in contrast to recent changes in England, some things have stuck in my mind about Scotland to do with government policies.
I'd have to leave my nieces and nephew and the rest of my family behind, if I left Sheffield, so I doubt that'll happen anytime soon anyway. Not unless I find 'the perfect job' somewhere else.
> (In reply to Timmd) Have you ever lived here? There are plus points but your impressions seem a bit rose tinted-social problems are as bad if not worse than England.
No I haven't. I'm quite sure they are rose tinted, and that things may change after independence, and that social problems can be very bad indeed. It's more just that in contrast to recent changes in England, some things have stuck in my mind about Scotland to do with government policies.
I'd have to leave my nieces and nephew and the rest of my family behind, if I left Sheffield, so I doubt that'll happen anytime soon anyway. Not unless I find 'the perfect job' somewhere else.
In reply to estivoautumnal:
If the Republic of Ireland is anything to go by there will be plenty of reciprocal agreements and moving won't be too hard, and there was proper armed conflict there.
For all the rhetoric i reckon England and Scotland will get on reasonably well either together or apart. S will blame E for everything that goes wrong for the next 50 years either way.
If the Republic of Ireland is anything to go by there will be plenty of reciprocal agreements and moving won't be too hard, and there was proper armed conflict there.
For all the rhetoric i reckon England and Scotland will get on reasonably well either together or apart. S will blame E for everything that goes wrong for the next 50 years either way.
In reply to Timmd:
> (In reply to Father Noel Furlong)
> [...]
>
>
>
> If there's one thing England does well it's friendly pubs with a sense of place.
>
> I agree. I think in England a local is just that, a place where locals meet and catch up and generally socialise with each other. My not inconsiderable experience of Scottish pubs is that whilst on the whole they are friendly and convivial there is less of a community feel and more of a transient nature to them. No offence intended.
> [...]
>
>
>
> If there's one thing England does well it's friendly pubs with a sense of place.
>
> I agree. I think in England a local is just that, a place where locals meet and catch up and generally socialise with each other. My not inconsiderable experience of Scottish pubs is that whilst on the whole they are friendly and convivial there is less of a community feel and more of a transient nature to them. No offence intended.
In reply to davidbeynon:
No change there then....................
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
>
> For all the rhetoric i reckon England and Scotland will get on reasonably well either together or apart. S will blame E for everything that goes wrong for the next 50 years either way.
> For all the rhetoric i reckon England and Scotland will get on reasonably well either together or apart. S will blame E for everything that goes wrong for the next 50 years either way.
No change there then....................
In reply to estivoautumnal:
As a Geordie "immigrant" to Glasgow of over 20 years now I wouldn't swap this place for Mother England.
For me an hour in the car up the A82 past Loch Lomond is the best tonic available in the UK.
Easy striking distance for The Cobbler and Glencoe.
As for Wee Eck Salmond he wont last. He will puff too hard one day and burst.
As a Geordie "immigrant" to Glasgow of over 20 years now I wouldn't swap this place for Mother England.
For me an hour in the car up the A82 past Loch Lomond is the best tonic available in the UK.
Easy striking distance for The Cobbler and Glencoe.
As for Wee Eck Salmond he wont last. He will puff too hard one day and burst.
In reply to estivoautumnal:
Hard to say if you could become English but if we kick out all the current economic migrants from north of the border there'd certainly be plenty of room
Hard to say if you could become English but if we kick out all the current economic migrants from north of the border there'd certainly be plenty of room
In reply to Jim Fraser:
clearly he does
"the english, the english, the english are best!
I would not give tuppence for all of the rest.."
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
>
> Have you no ambition man?
>
> Have you no ambition man?
clearly he does
"the english, the english, the english are best!
I would not give tuppence for all of the rest.."
In reply to estivoautumnal: Can I suggest you just leave now?
In reply to Joe G:
Also bad Maths. England has ten times as many people surely the odds that there are less neds are very low. Better analysis needed.
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
>
>
> [...]
>
> Fewer neds.
>
> At least use correct English grammar!
>
>
> [...]
>
> Fewer neds.
>
> At least use correct English grammar!
Also bad Maths. England has ten times as many people surely the odds that there are less neds are very low. Better analysis needed.
In reply to estivoautumnal: That's the whole point, you don't have to. A vote for independence is a vote for independence. A genuinely accountable parliament would follow. Would that not be better than Cameron, and the transfer of resourses from the public sector. Perhaps an inquiry into how many M.P.s and Lords have interests in private healthcare. Unless you have archaic sectarian views, I don't understand why you wouldn't vote yes.
In reply to The Big Man: According to the polls about 33% want independence, so that's only two thirds of the voters that you've decided are archaic sectarians.
In reply to estivoautumnal: Just catch a train - start saving now.
You do know that there will be an election for a Scottish Parliament and voting SNP is not the only option. The party will shed members and support anyway once its reason for existing has gone and the broad spectrum of opinion breaks into other parties. It will continue but not in its current form.
Independence does not equal Fat Controller.
You do know that there will be an election for a Scottish Parliament and voting SNP is not the only option. The party will shed members and support anyway once its reason for existing has gone and the broad spectrum of opinion breaks into other parties. It will continue but not in its current form.
Independence does not equal Fat Controller.
In reply to estivoautumnal:
Diadvantages
Too many people
UKIP
House buying system
Stoke on Trent
etc
> Advantages.
>
> Nicer weather.
> Better pubs.
> More airports, cheaper foreign travel.
> Less neds.
> Etc.
>
> Nicer weather.
> Better pubs.
> More airports, cheaper foreign travel.
> Less neds.
> Etc.
Diadvantages
Too many people
UKIP
House buying system
Stoke on Trent
etc
In reply to The Big Man: In principle, decentralising power as far as possible can make it more accountable. But why do you think the politicians that end up running an independent Scotland would be significantly better than the ones we already have in Westminster and Holyrood? Because they are Scottish? I think it is naive to expect a post independence Scottish political class to break with history the world over and not be a bunch of self-serving back scratching mercenary a@#eholes.
In reply to nw:
Yes, that's why local authorities are generally free from graft and corruption.
Having said that, I'd probably go the opposite way to the OP. Having decent pubs in most places as a given would be a loss, though.
> (In reply to The Big Man) In principle, decentralising power as far as possible can make it more accountable.
Yes, that's why local authorities are generally free from graft and corruption.
Having said that, I'd probably go the opposite way to the OP. Having decent pubs in most places as a given would be a loss, though.
In reply to MG:
Wasn't going to feed the troll on this thread, but I properly laughed out loud at the one. Nice work
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
>
> [...]
>
> Diadvantages
>
> Too many people
> UKIP
> House buying system
> Stoke on Trent
> etc
>
> [...]
>
> Diadvantages
>
> Too many people
> UKIP
> House buying system
> Stoke on Trent
> etc
Wasn't going to feed the troll on this thread, but I properly laughed out loud at the one. Nice work
In reply to Sir Chasm:
"According to the polls about 33% want independence, so that's only two thirds of the voters that you've decided are archaic sectarians."
No comment on the sectarian part as that is all rather distasteful. Still what is is with Unionists where they feel they have the right to claim all the "don't knows" as "no" voters. It is way closer than that and it is all to play for.
The other point that seems to be missed is that this referendum is not about Alec Salmond or the SNP, or policies it is about democracy. It is about a choice of where we want decisions about our country to be made. For me that is a no brainer, we can create a far more positive future being in control of out own affairs, and hopefully inspire change in the rest rUK as well. One thing is for sure we certainly can't do that within it at present setup and given that the Unionist establishment are not prepared to engage with Devo-Max solutions then this is the lifeboat. Promises of jam tomorrow are hollow, powers over airguns and speed limits are a joke.
As for SNP policies, get them out there, they are just one of many views about how the country can move forward. If people like them they can vote for them AFTER the referendum if they don't they can vote for somebody else.
"According to the polls about 33% want independence, so that's only two thirds of the voters that you've decided are archaic sectarians."
No comment on the sectarian part as that is all rather distasteful. Still what is is with Unionists where they feel they have the right to claim all the "don't knows" as "no" voters. It is way closer than that and it is all to play for.
The other point that seems to be missed is that this referendum is not about Alec Salmond or the SNP, or policies it is about democracy. It is about a choice of where we want decisions about our country to be made. For me that is a no brainer, we can create a far more positive future being in control of out own affairs, and hopefully inspire change in the rest rUK as well. One thing is for sure we certainly can't do that within it at present setup and given that the Unionist establishment are not prepared to engage with Devo-Max solutions then this is the lifeboat. Promises of jam tomorrow are hollow, powers over airguns and speed limits are a joke.
As for SNP policies, get them out there, they are just one of many views about how the country can move forward. If people like them they can vote for them AFTER the referendum if they don't they can vote for somebody else.
In reply to cuthill76:
So instead of being governed by Edinburgh and Westminster you can be governed by Edinburgh and Brussels/Strasbourg. (or Berlin and Paris!!)
> (In reply to Sir Chasm)
>
> > The other point that seems to be missed is that this referendum is not about Alec Salmond or the SNP, or policies it is about democracy. It is about a choice of where we want decisions about our country to be made. For me that is a no brainer, we can create a far more positive future being in control of out own affairs, and hopefully inspire change in the rest rUK as well. One thing is for sure we certainly can't do that within it at present setup and given that the Unionist establishment are not prepared to engage with Devo-Max solutions then this is the lifeboat. Promises of jam tomorrow are hollow, powers over airguns and speed limits are a joke.
>
>
>
> > The other point that seems to be missed is that this referendum is not about Alec Salmond or the SNP, or policies it is about democracy. It is about a choice of where we want decisions about our country to be made. For me that is a no brainer, we can create a far more positive future being in control of out own affairs, and hopefully inspire change in the rest rUK as well. One thing is for sure we certainly can't do that within it at present setup and given that the Unionist establishment are not prepared to engage with Devo-Max solutions then this is the lifeboat. Promises of jam tomorrow are hollow, powers over airguns and speed limits are a joke.
>
>
So instead of being governed by Edinburgh and Westminster you can be governed by Edinburgh and Brussels/Strasbourg. (or Berlin and Paris!!)
In reply to Toby S:
Easily pleased? ()
> (In reply to MG)
> [...]
>
> Wasn't going to feed the troll on this thread, but I properly laughed out loud at the one. Nice work
> [...]
>
> Wasn't going to feed the troll on this thread, but I properly laughed out loud at the one. Nice work
Easily pleased? ()
In reply to cuthill76: It might be a no brainer for you, but the two thirds of the voters who either don't want independence or might not want independence don't agree.
In reply to estivoautumnal:
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-no-...
I wouldn't bother looking for a house in South Britain just yet.
Anyway, we have Tunnocks caramel wafers and Irn Bru. How could you leave those behind?
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-no-...
I wouldn't bother looking for a house in South Britain just yet.
Anyway, we have Tunnocks caramel wafers and Irn Bru. How could you leave those behind?
In reply to mcdougal:
I'll trump you with a Blackpool/Rotherham pair.
Of course we could introduce Wales at this point, which has a single card Royal Flush with Merthyr Tydfil
> (In reply to Stoke-on-Trent)
>
> Govan
>
> Govan
I'll trump you with a Blackpool/Rotherham pair.
Of course we could introduce Wales at this point, which has a single card Royal Flush with Merthyr Tydfil
In reply to nw: at least we would have a government we voted for
In reply to Sir Chasm: I take it you've assumed there are no undecided? That's the type of statistical manipulation I'd expect from Westminster
In reply to Removed User:
WHAT? Are you suggesting that come independence they would no longer go south of the border?
If so I would suggest if independence gets a yes vote the rest of the UK should invade to recover them but since Scotland will have the nukes....
> Anyway, we have Tunnocks caramel wafers and Irn Bru. How could you leave those behind?
WHAT? Are you suggesting that come independence they would no longer go south of the border?
If so I would suggest if independence gets a yes vote the rest of the UK should invade to recover them but since Scotland will have the nukes....
Independence could be great or be a disaster, as well the union can be great or be a disaster. It all depends on how it's implemented.
At the end of the day, independence will happen only when a majority of Scots feel that Scotland is a nation, (which does not seem to be the case just yet).
At the end of the day, independence will happen only when a majority of Scots feel that Scotland is a nation, (which does not seem to be the case just yet).
In reply to Timmd:
It's that or stare longingly at sheep all day.
> (In reply to Toby S)
> [...]
>
> Easily pleased? ()
> [...]
>
> Easily pleased? ()
It's that or stare longingly at sheep all day.
In reply to mcdougal:
I'm afraid England dominates the top the top seven on the list in today's Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2391834/Crap-Towns-Returns-poll-Hem...
> (In reply to Stoke-on-Trent)
>
> Govan
>
> Govan
I'm afraid England dominates the top the top seven on the list in today's Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2391834/Crap-Towns-Returns-poll-Hem...
In reply to MG:
the latest crap towns survey is out.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/10240434/And-the-ugliest-town-is...-Hemel...
Amusingly whilst I was looking for a link in google there were various local papers complaining apart from Hemel, Hatfield and Luton.
> Of course we could introduce Wales at this point, which has a single card Royal Flush with Merthyr Tydfil
the latest crap towns survey is out.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/10240434/And-the-ugliest-town-is...-Hemel...
Amusingly whilst I was looking for a link in google there were various local papers complaining apart from Hemel, Hatfield and Luton.
In reply to MG:
Are those advantages for dyslexic Welsh Davids?
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
> Diadvantages
Are those advantages for dyslexic Welsh Davids?
In reply to The Big Man: True, true, if they're undecided we don't know whether you think they're archaic sectarians (although you also seem to be suggesting that there aren't any archaic sectarians on the independence side, but I'm sure you wouldn't be daft enough to think that).
In reply to nw:
^^^This^^^
> (In reply to The Big Man) But why do you think the politicians that end up running an independent Scotland would be significantly better than the ones we already have in Westminster and Holyrood? Because they are Scottish? I think it is naive to expect a post independence Scottish political class to break with history the world over and not be a bunch of self-serving back scratching mercenary a@#eholes.
^^^This^^^
In reply to nw:
Because we are going to let England keep Glasgow.
> (In reply to The Big Man)
>
> ... why do you think the politicians that end up running an independent Scotland would be significantly better than the ones we already have in Westminster and Holyrood?
>
> ... why do you think the politicians that end up running an independent Scotland would be significantly better than the ones we already have in Westminster and Holyrood?
Because we are going to let England keep Glasgow.
In reply to Toby S:
I studied sheep quite a bit when I didn't do much else other than cycle out to the Peak for a couple of years, and get home in time for tea. I'm sure they have individual characters.
I kind of miss the simplicity of then, though this phase is good, and in some ways better.
> (In reply to Timmd)
> [...]
>
> It's that or stare longingly at sheep all day.
> [...]
>
> It's that or stare longingly at sheep all day.
I studied sheep quite a bit when I didn't do much else other than cycle out to the Peak for a couple of years, and get home in time for tea. I'm sure they have individual characters.
I kind of miss the simplicity of then, though this phase is good, and in some ways better.
In reply to Jim Fraser:
right lets see. Glasgow population of about six hundred thousand.
So can trade for Luton (200k), hemel (81k), slough (140k) and then a few more.
sounding good.
> (In reply to nw)
> [...]
>
> Because we are going to let England keep Glasgow.
> [...]
>
> Because we are going to let England keep Glasgow.
right lets see. Glasgow population of about six hundred thousand.
So can trade for Luton (200k), hemel (81k), slough (140k) and then a few more.
sounding good.
In reply to Removed User:
Hoping they will put Clegg in charge of the negotiating then?
> No, we'll trade it for Cumbria.
Hoping they will put Clegg in charge of the negotiating then?
In reply to estivoautumnal:
Dear Scotland,
Please don't leave the UK, because then us poor sods in Wales will be stuck with the buggers in Westminster for the next 20 years...
PS willing to become the United Kingdom of Scotland and Wales (possibly even Northern Ireland)...
Dear Scotland,
Please don't leave the UK, because then us poor sods in Wales will be stuck with the buggers in Westminster for the next 20 years...
PS willing to become the United Kingdom of Scotland and Wales (possibly even Northern Ireland)...
In reply to estivoautumnal:
Actually I think we should hope the independence referenda as 'Survivor' style and vote out the country we don't want :P
Actually I think we should hope the independence referenda as 'Survivor' style and vote out the country we don't want :P
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