/ If Scotland gains independence can I become English

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estivoautumnal - on 13 Aug 2013
I just couldn't face Salmond and his chip shouldered tribe.

Advantages.

Nicer weather.
Better pubs.
More airports, cheaper foreign travel.
Less neds.
Etc.

If it wasn't for the hills I'd already be there. Sorry SNP.
Wanderer100 - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:
> I just couldn't face Salmond and his chip shouldered tribe.
>
> Advantages.
>
> Nicer weather.
> Better pubs.
> More airports, cheaper foreign travel.
> Less neds.
> Etc.
>
> If it wasn't for the hills I'd already be there. Sorry SNP.


Ooooh controversial!!!

Father Noel Furlong on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:
>
> Advantages.
>
> Nicer weather.

Depends on wher you live....warmer yes but ther are parts of Scotland with incredibly low rainfall.

> Better pubs.

Rwally...not in my experience.
> More airports, cheaper foreign travel.

So younwant to move to England so you can get away from it.....
> Less neds.

Sounds like my neighbourhood. Maybe you should explore you nation more before abandoning it.
> Etc.

What does that mean?
>
> If it wasn't for the hills I'd already be there. Sorry SNP.

What a sad excuse.....

Not that it will happen anyway...

Father Noel Furlong on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:

Fecking iPad...a nightmare for spelling mistakes!!!
andymac - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
> (In reply to Father Noel Furlong)
>
> Fecking iPad...a nightmare for spelling mistakes!!!

I hate them.

On mine now after taking the laptop with me at bath time an hour ago.

Oops.
knthrak1982 on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

Not if ukip get in down here you can't.
You can jolly well sod off back to bagpipe-bagpipe land.
Wanderer100 - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to knthrak1982:
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
>
> Not if ukip get in down here you can't.
> You can jolly well sod off back to bagpipe-bagpipe land.

Hello... UKIP? United Kingdom Independence Party...doh!!

Timmd on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

I've been half thinking the opposite as somebody living in England, Derby born and 'Sheffield bred'. (In quotes because I don't know if I can claim to be not having been born here.)

Anyway, Scotland seems to have got the right idea from what I've heard and read, with things like education and health care, and what people pay and how/when, and generally being 'nicer' in a seeing society as something where people look out for each other kind of way.

I doubt I will move to Scotland, but there's a few things I like about it other than the landscapes.
knthrak1982 on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to Wanderer100:
> (In reply to knthrak1982)
> [...]
>
> Hello... UKIP? United Kingdom Independence Party...doh!!

Well yes, at the moment. But if Scotland gain independence (as in the original question)...
MG - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to Timmd: Have you ever lived here? There are plus points but your impressions seem a bit rose tinted-social problems are as bad if not worse than England.

To the OP I'm moving soon- I'll let you know how Englandshire really compares!!
Timmd on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)

Norrie Muir once commented that it'd be impossible for Scotland to have nicer pubs than are found in England, in places like the Lake District for example. He could be mean and unfriendly, but I can imagine him having spent a lot of time in Scottish pubs.

If there's one thing England does well it's friendly pubs with a sense of place.

The Six Bells in Bishop's Castle in Shropshire is worth a visit if you're ever passing, the land lady pretended to throw me out for wearing a rival pub's t-shirt. It has a nice atmosphere and they brew their own beer.

Wanderer100 - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to knthrak1982:
> (In reply to Wanderer100)
> [...]
>
> Well yes, at the moment. But if Scotland gain independence (as in the original question)...

Interesting point. So no UK or GB if Scotland gain independence. Therefore no UKIP. I wonder what Farage plans to name his party then?

dissonance - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

ohh this has potential. Not so much pulling the pin on a grenade and lobbing it as randomly typing in coordinates into trident and hitting the big red button.
Father Noel Furlong on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to Timmd:
> (In reply to Father Noel Furlong)
> [...]
>
> Norrie Muir once commented that it'd be impossible for Scotland to have nicer pubs than are found in England, in places like the Lake District for example. He could be mean and unfriendly, but I can imagine him having spent a lot of time in Scottish pubs.

Your probably right......Norrie we miss you.
>
>
> The Six Bells in Bishop's Castle in Shropshire is worth a visit if you're ever passing, the land lady pretended to throw me out for wearing a rival pub's t-shirt. It has a nice atmosphere and they brew their own beer.

Noted thanks, but highly unlikely....

MG - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to dissonance: No reply from tjet OP yet either...could be a high scorer
knthrak1982 on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to Wanderer100:

I was implying that, if Scotland becomes independent and UKIP becomes the government of the United Kingdom (of England, Wales and Northern Ireland), then the Scots would be another lot of EU migrants. So the OP might not be allowed to "become English".
My comment wad not intended to be taken seriously :)
Timmd on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to MG:
> (In reply to Timmd) Have you ever lived here? There are plus points but your impressions seem a bit rose tinted-social problems are as bad if not worse than England.

No I haven't. I'm quite sure they are rose tinted, and that things may change after independence, and that social problems can be very bad indeed. It's more just that in contrast to recent changes in England, some things have stuck in my mind about Scotland to do with government policies.

I'd have to leave my nieces and nephew and the rest of my family behind, if I left Sheffield, so I doubt that'll happen anytime soon anyway. Not unless I find 'the perfect job' somewhere else.



davidbeynon - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

If the Republic of Ireland is anything to go by there will be plenty of reciprocal agreements and moving won't be too hard, and there was proper armed conflict there.

For all the rhetoric i reckon England and Scotland will get on reasonably well either together or apart. S will blame E for everything that goes wrong for the next 50 years either way.
Wanderer100 - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to Timmd:
> (In reply to Father Noel Furlong)
> [...]
>
>
>
> If there's one thing England does well it's friendly pubs with a sense of place.
>
> I agree. I think in England a local is just that, a place where locals meet and catch up and generally socialise with each other. My not inconsiderable experience of Scottish pubs is that whilst on the whole they are friendly and convivial there is less of a community feel and more of a transient nature to them. No offence intended.

andymac - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to MG:

Hooker might come out to play on this one.
Horse on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to andymac:

That should up the quality of humour and insight no end :-(
coinneach - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to davidbeynon:
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)

>
> For all the rhetoric i reckon England and Scotland will get on reasonably well either together or apart. S will blame E for everything that goes wrong for the next 50 years either way.


No change there then....................

mgco3 - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

As a Geordie "immigrant" to Glasgow of over 20 years now I wouldn't swap this place for Mother England.

For me an hour in the car up the A82 past Loch Lomond is the best tonic available in the UK.

Easy striking distance for The Cobbler and Glencoe.

As for Wee Eck Salmond he wont last. He will puff too hard one day and burst.
Wiley Coyote - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

Hard to say if you could become English but if we kick out all the current economic migrants from north of the border there'd certainly be plenty of room
Jim Fraser - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

Have you no ambition man?
Dr.S at work - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to Jim Fraser:
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
>
> Have you no ambition man?

clearly he does

"the english, the english, the english are best!
I would not give tuppence for all of the rest.."

;-)
Joe G - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:


> Less neds.

Fewer neds.

At least use correct English grammar!

David Barratt - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal: Can I suggest you just leave now?
Father Noel Furlong on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to Joe G:
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
>
>
> [...]
>
> Fewer neds.
>
> At least use correct English grammar!

Also bad Maths. England has ten times as many people surely the odds that there are less neds are very low. Better analysis needed.

Jim Fraser - on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:
>
> Less neds.

Your knowledge of England may need a few enhancements.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Alex Slipchuk on 13 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal: That's the whole point, you don't have to. A vote for independence is a vote for independence. A genuinely accountable parliament would follow. Would that not be better than Cameron, and the transfer of resourses from the public sector. Perhaps an inquiry into how many M.P.s and Lords have interests in private healthcare. Unless you have archaic sectarian views, I don't understand why you wouldn't vote yes.
Sir Chasm - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to The Big Man: According to the polls about 33% want independence, so that's only two thirds of the voters that you've decided are archaic sectarians.
Fat Bumbly2 - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal: Just catch a train - start saving now.

You do know that there will be an election for a Scottish Parliament and voting SNP is not the only option. The party will shed members and support anyway once its reason for existing has gone and the broad spectrum of opinion breaks into other parties. It will continue but not in its current form.

Independence does not equal Fat Controller.
MG - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

> Advantages.
>
> Nicer weather.
> Better pubs.
> More airports, cheaper foreign travel.
> Less neds.
> Etc.

Diadvantages

Too many people
UKIP
House buying system
Stoke on Trent
etc
nw - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to The Big Man: In principle, decentralising power as far as possible can make it more accountable. But why do you think the politicians that end up running an independent Scotland would be significantly better than the ones we already have in Westminster and Holyrood? Because they are Scottish? I think it is naive to expect a post independence Scottish political class to break with history the world over and not be a bunch of self-serving back scratching mercenary a@#eholes.
Ramblin dave - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to nw:
> (In reply to The Big Man) In principle, decentralising power as far as possible can make it more accountable.

Yes, that's why local authorities are generally free from graft and corruption.

Having said that, I'd probably go the opposite way to the OP. Having decent pubs in most places as a given would be a loss, though.
Toby S - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to MG:
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
>
> [...]
>
> Diadvantages
>
> Too many people
> UKIP
> House buying system
> Stoke on Trent
> etc

Wasn't going to feed the troll on this thread, but I properly laughed out loud at the one. Nice work :-)
cuthill76 - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to Sir Chasm:

"According to the polls about 33% want independence, so that's only two thirds of the voters that you've decided are archaic sectarians."

No comment on the sectarian part as that is all rather distasteful. Still what is is with Unionists where they feel they have the right to claim all the "don't knows" as "no" voters. It is way closer than that and it is all to play for.

The other point that seems to be missed is that this referendum is not about Alec Salmond or the SNP, or policies it is about democracy. It is about a choice of where we want decisions about our country to be made. For me that is a no brainer, we can create a far more positive future being in control of out own affairs, and hopefully inspire change in the rest rUK as well. One thing is for sure we certainly can't do that within it at present setup and given that the Unionist establishment are not prepared to engage with Devo-Max solutions then this is the lifeboat. Promises of jam tomorrow are hollow, powers over airguns and speed limits are a joke.

As for SNP policies, get them out there, they are just one of many views about how the country can move forward. If people like them they can vote for them AFTER the referendum if they don't they can vote for somebody else.

Wanderer100 - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to cuthill76:
> (In reply to Sir Chasm)
>
> > The other point that seems to be missed is that this referendum is not about Alec Salmond or the SNP, or policies it is about democracy. It is about a choice of where we want decisions about our country to be made. For me that is a no brainer, we can create a far more positive future being in control of out own affairs, and hopefully inspire change in the rest rUK as well. One thing is for sure we certainly can't do that within it at present setup and given that the Unionist establishment are not prepared to engage with Devo-Max solutions then this is the lifeboat. Promises of jam tomorrow are hollow, powers over airguns and speed limits are a joke.
>
>

So instead of being governed by Edinburgh and Westminster you can be governed by Edinburgh and Brussels/Strasbourg. (or Berlin and Paris!!)
Timmd on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to Toby S:
> (In reply to MG)
> [...]
>
> Wasn't going to feed the troll on this thread, but I properly laughed out loud at the one. Nice work :-)

Easily pleased? (;-))
Sir Chasm - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to cuthill76: It might be a no brainer for you, but the two thirds of the voters who either don't want independence or might not want independence don't agree.
Eric9Points - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-no-chance-for-yes-silver-1-3...

I wouldn't bother looking for a house in South Britain just yet.

Anyway, we have Tunnocks caramel wafers and Irn Bru. How could you leave those behind?
mcdougal - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to Stoke-on-Trent:

Govan
MG - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to mcdougal:
> (In reply to Stoke-on-Trent)
>
> Govan

I'll trump you with a Blackpool/Rotherham pair.

Of course we could introduce Wales at this point, which has a single card Royal Flush with Merthyr Tydfil

Alex Slipchuk on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to nw: at least we would have a government we voted for
Alex Slipchuk on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to Sir Chasm: I take it you've assumed there are no undecided? That's the type of statistical manipulation I'd expect from Westminster
dissonance - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to Eric9Points:

> Anyway, we have Tunnocks caramel wafers and Irn Bru. How could you leave those behind?

WHAT? Are you suggesting that come independence they would no longer go south of the border?
If so I would suggest if independence gets a yes vote the rest of the UK should invade to recover them but since Scotland will have the nukes....
RomTheBear - on 14 Aug 2013
Independence could be great or be a disaster, as well the union can be great or be a disaster. It all depends on how it's implemented.

At the end of the day, independence will happen only when a majority of Scots feel that Scotland is a nation, (which does not seem to be the case just yet).
Toby S - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to Timmd:
> (In reply to Toby S)
> [...]
>
> Easily pleased? (;-))

It's that or stare longingly at sheep all day.
knthrak1982 on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to mcdougal:
> (In reply to Stoke-on-Trent)
>
> Govan

I'm afraid England dominates the top the top seven on the list in today's Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2391834/Crap-Towns-Returns-poll-Hemel-Hempstead-tops-ugliest...
dissonance - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to MG:

> Of course we could introduce Wales at this point, which has a single card Royal Flush with Merthyr Tydfil

the latest crap towns survey is out.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/10240434/And-the-ugliest-town-is...-Hemel-Hempstead.html

Amusingly whilst I was looking for a link in google there were various local papers complaining apart from Hemel, Hatfield and Luton.
teflonpete - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to MG:
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)

> Diadvantages

Are those advantages for dyslexic Welsh Davids?
Sir Chasm - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to The Big Man: True, true, if they're undecided we don't know whether you think they're archaic sectarians (although you also seem to be suggesting that there aren't any archaic sectarians on the independence side, but I'm sure you wouldn't be daft enough to think that).
teflonpete - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to nw:
> (In reply to The Big Man) But why do you think the politicians that end up running an independent Scotland would be significantly better than the ones we already have in Westminster and Holyrood? Because they are Scottish? I think it is naive to expect a post independence Scottish political class to break with history the world over and not be a bunch of self-serving back scratching mercenary a@#eholes.

^^^This^^^
Jim Fraser - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to nw:
> (In reply to The Big Man)
>
> ... why do you think the politicians that end up running an independent Scotland would be significantly better than the ones we already have in Westminster and Holyrood?

Because we are going to let England keep Glasgow.
Timmd on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to Toby S:
> (In reply to Timmd)
> [...]
>
> It's that or stare longingly at sheep all day.

I studied sheep quite a bit when I didn't do much else other than cycle out to the Peak for a couple of years, and get home in time for tea. I'm sure they have individual characters.

I kind of miss the simplicity of then, though this phase is good, and in some ways better.
dissonance - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to Jim Fraser:
> (In reply to nw)
> [...]
>
> Because we are going to let England keep Glasgow.

right lets see. Glasgow population of about six hundred thousand.
So can trade for Luton (200k), hemel (81k), slough (140k) and then a few more.
sounding good.
biped - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to dissonance:

No, we'll trade it for Cumbria.
dissonance - on 14 Aug 2013
In reply to biped:

> No, we'll trade it for Cumbria.

Hoping they will put Clegg in charge of the negotiating then?
andrewmcleod - on 15 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

Dear Scotland,

Please don't leave the UK, because then us poor sods in Wales will be stuck with the buggers in Westminster for the next 20 years...

PS willing to become the United Kingdom of Scotland and Wales (possibly even Northern Ireland)...
ads.ukclimbing.com
andrewmcleod - on 15 Aug 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

Actually I think we should hope the independence referenda as 'Survivor' style and vote out the country we don't want :P

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