UKC

'Red or Dead' by David Peace

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 Fraser 15 Aug 2013
I unfortunately listened to some of the abridged version of this book on R4's Book at Bedtime last night and had to switch off. It's a book about Bill Shankly and Liverpool FC. But that's not why I switched off, it was because the writing was so unbelievably bad.

Here's a short extract from one review -
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/book-review-r...

"Bill stopped typing. Bill took the letter out of his typewriter. Bill put down the letter on his desk. Bill put his hand inside his jacket. Bill took out his pen. His red pen. Bill unscrewed the top of his pen. Above the word Manager, Bill signed the letter B. Shankly. Bill put down his pen on the desk. Bill opened the top drawer of his desk. Bill took out an envelope..."

Reviewer:

"And so on for another 300 words. The passage quoted is, I should straight-away add, entirely representative of the 200 pages that precede it and the 500 that follow. Some are a little less repetitive-cum-staccato in their design, others a trifle more, but this will do to convey their general tone."


I was just wondering if anyone here has read it (in full or part) and if so, did you enoy it?



 felt 15 Aug 2013
In reply to Fraser:

Mark Lawson in the Grauniad went on about this style at some length and his comments bear repeating:

"Red or Dead also continues a wider stylistic gamble launched in the writer's earlier books. It is a principle of most teaching and criticism of fiction that prose should contain as much variation of vocabulary, rhythm and reference as possible. For example, a character introduced on one page as "Shankly" would ideally become "he" at the next mention and perhaps "the manager" after that.

This rule of elegant variation has generally been ignored by Peace. Here, for instance, is the protagonist of Red or Dead at home with his wife: "Bill got up from his chair. Bill kissed Ness on the cheek. And Bill said, Goodnight, love."

Those sentences are typical of the style. Opening the book at random, I find, on page 249, 50 repetitions of "Bill". Certain other formulations echo through the more than 700 pages of Red or Dead. Almost every game at Liverpool's regular ground is noted as being "at home, at Anfield", while Bill is on uncountable occasions to be found at home "in the night and in the silence" and is often consulting there "his book of names, his book of notes".

This rhythm of reiteration, which imposes on fiction a tactic more associated with poetry, is also present in the linking prose ("Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley were concerned. Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley were worried") and even extends to the dialogue. Characteristically, giving his team talk before a game against Manchester United, the manager tells his troops that the opposition boss "is always on the phone to me, asking if any of you are on offer, available for transfer. I know for a fact he'd take any one of you, any one of you, boys. Because they are a makeshift side, this side today. A makeshift United." (Oddly, though, Shankly doesn't double-talk like this in the broadcasting scenes, which are based on recordings.)

With earlier books, some furious online reader-reviewers seemed to be under the impression that Peace doesn't realise that he is doing this hypnotic repetition. Clearly, though, it is a calculation and, in Red or Dead, is at its most effective and thematically justified. Shankly was a monomaniac – author of the still-quoted observation that football isn't a matter of life and death, but more important than that – whose training methods relied on drills being endlessly duplicated.

Peace's controversial echo-chamber style exactly suggests a mind and a life moving through – and sometimes stuck in – a shallow groove, seeing no other routes. In this context, the nine detailed pages devoted to the retired Shankly carrying out household chores ("Bill held the cloth over the water in the bucket. Bill wrung out the cloth") achieve a perfect mimesis of the condition of an obsessive seeking a replacement fixation."

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/aug/08/red-dead-david-peace-review?IN...
 felt 15 Aug 2013
In reply to Fraser:

In answer to your question, I've not read the book but I enjoyed the Clough film based on his last book; not sure how involved he was with the film. On the basis of the excerpts above I don't think I will be reading it though. Next up will be (another bleak book), Strangers in Iceland.
OP Fraser 15 Aug 2013
In reply to felt:

Thanks for that. I often find myself agreeing with Lawson's reviews on things I've either seen or read, so I'm not surprised here.

Another example where the repetition is unberable is when the author lists how Shankley looks round the locker room at the team: "Bill looked from A, to b, to C, to D, to E..." etc till we've gone round the whole 11 players. This has already happened on more than one occasion I've been listening.

Needless to say, I'll not be tuning in again tonight!
OP Fraser 15 Aug 2013
In reply to felt:
> (In reply to Fraser)
>
> .. I don't think I will be reading it though. Next up will be (another bleak book), Strangers in Iceland.

Not heard of that one I'm afraid. At the moment, I'm half way through a book, inspired by hearing it on BAB, namely Orwell's "Down and out in Paris and London" which I'm really enjoying.

 Blue Straggler 15 Aug 2013
In reply to felt:

Don't we see this in Homer's "The Odyssey"? All those repetitions of "rosy-fingered dawn" and so on?
 felt 17 Aug 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:

That's perhaps more to do with orality than mimicking Shankly's mind.
 ayuplass 18 Aug 2013
In reply to Fraser:
I love the work of David Peace but wish he'd stop writing about football! His Red Riding trilogy and GB84 are stunning but his still of writing can be hard going at times. Stick with it and it will grow on you

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...