/ Bowden Doors Wind Farm

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joe s - on 15 Aug 2013
Hi,

This is not a discussion about the pros and cons of wind farms. That has been covered in this thread (and many others on the web):

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=506623

I am a NIMBY/local climber and feel that regardless of your views on wind power that this is not the place for a wind turbine site. The view at the top of a Bowden Doors is, in my opinion, very special. If you feel as I do you can lodge your objection to the planning application with Northumberland County Council on this website:

http://publicaccess.northumberland.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=makeCo...

There are also other ways of stating your objection and guidelines on terminology to use on this website:

http://www.middletonburnactiongroup.co.uk/

Thanks,

Joe Spoor
Troy Tempest - on 15 Aug 2013
In reply to joe s:

Does this fall under the 'Vast swathes of wasteland' in the North East I wonder?
Andysomething - on 15 Aug 2013
Will look it up.
Was this prompted by the chat we had at the crag on Tuesday?
If it was you I have a very nice pic of you on Castle Crack
Andy
auser - on 15 Aug 2013
In reply to joe s:
This shot of Dunstanburgh Castle is sobering:
http://www.thejournal.co.uk/news/north-east-news/northumberland-wind-farms-called-question-5730614

Now try using Google to see other pictures of the Castle.
Andysomething - on 15 Aug 2013
In respect to Bowden this is the current outlook from the top of the crag looking west
(sorry about the massive link! I did check it and it seems to work)

https://plus.google.com/photos/102575964027238130135/albums/5122257345681077041/5912423109942196482?...

Andysomething - on 15 Aug 2013
In reply to Andysomething: Correction I think the turbines are planned the opposite direction - looking out towards the N sea
Andysomething - on 15 Aug 2013
martinph78 on 15 Aug 2013
In reply to Andysomething: That's the view as I remember it.

I'm sorry, but the OP has already admitted that they are a NIMBY so I'll go ahead and say it... I'm not sure what is so special about the view from Bowden Doors out to the coast. It's featureless, and in my view as good a place as any for the wind turbines.

The OP doesn't want this to be an argument about the pros and cons of wind turbines, so given that they have to go somewhere, that isn't a bad spot I reckon.

JDal - on 15 Aug 2013
In reply to Martin1978:
> (In reply to Andysomething) That's the view as I remember it.
>
> I'm sorry, but the OP has already admitted that they are a NIMBY so I'll go ahead and say it...

You can stuff the NIMBY argument up your a*se. Northumberland has supplied energy to the UK for years to the detriment of the people and the environment, and still does with acres of destructive opencast in my backyard. We have a form of energy which works perfectly well in the SE of England, so why are there not more down there? Maybe they're nimbies.

> I'm not sure what is so special about the view from Bowden Doors out to the coast. It's featureless, and in my view as good a place as any for the wind turbines.


Good grief.
martinph78 on 15 Aug 2013
In reply to JDal:
> (In reply to Martin1978)
> [...]
>
> You can stuff the NIMBY argument up your a*se. Northumberland has supplied energy to the UK for years to the detriment of the people and the environment, and still does with acres of destructive opencast in my backyard. We have a form of energy which works perfectly well in the SE of England, so why are there not more down there? Maybe they're nimbies.


Yes, I am sure that they are nimbies also.

They do have 25 coal, oil and gas and 3 nuclear power stations compared to Northumberland's 3, and probably wish that somewhere else in the country would get the three new nuclear power stations proposed for the south east.

I don't think wind turbines are the answer to our energy problems (but then neither is importing 60% of our fuel for energy production), but I'm also not offended by the site of them.

Regarding this proposal, it's no worse a location of most of the sites across County Durham, and that was all I was getting at.





Chris the Tall - on 15 Aug 2013
In reply to joe s:
Can't tell from any of these links where theses turbines are to be located - close to the crag or visible from it
joe s - on 16 Aug 2013
If you click on the link to the thread in my opening post there is a map showing the proposed site.

As I say, if you feel the same as I do then lodge your objection on the county council website.

Bump.
wibb20 - on 16 Aug 2013
In reply to joe s: It would seem that the majority on UKC do support this proposal - good on you for not bowing to NIMBYism.

I am sorry of the OP feel these are a blight on the landscape, but it would seem that not everyone feels that this is an inappropriate place to site a wind farm.



Ian W - on 16 Aug 2013
In reply to Barry Chuckle:
> (In reply to joe s)
>
> Does this fall under the 'Vast swathes of wasteland' in the North East I wonder?

No, no, no, that was actually the north WEST!

Adamski1986 - on 16 Aug 2013
In reply to joe s:

Its probably a great place for a windfarm but I would hate to see one built there! I agree there is a need for renewable energy for the future, but I also think there is greater need for preserving natural and rural country side for the future.

Its a shame they cant harness energy from Midge... We would have an endless supply :)

Tim Rodgers - on 16 Aug 2013
In reply to joe s:

There is going to be a windfarm the size of North Yorkshire built on the Dogger bank so the benefit of erecting 9 near Bowdon is worthless p**s. Maybe it is because there is a financial incentive involved?! That incentive should be going towards making homes and buildings more fuel efficient. Deluded. Bah!
wintertree - on 16 Aug 2013
In reply to joe s:

Why don't you start a petition and write to your local MP asking for a new Nuclear Fission reactor to be built on the coast in Northumberland? Perhaps at Cambois just north of Blyth?

As well as employing perhaps 6,000 construction workers over 10 years and then perhaps 500 permanent jobs, that one plant alone would produce more electricity than all the wind turbines in the whole UK are doing right now. Ask them to build Cambois A and B and it would likely eclipse the total (time averaged) contribution of all wind currently installed in the UK.

michaelb1 - on 17 Aug 2013
In reply to joe s: Thank you Joe for raising this. For those who don't know the area, yes the turbines will certainly be visible from the crag. The cumulative impact of this development, plus Middlemoor & Wandylaw, plus the proposed development at Ditchburn will be huge. It is time for local climbers and walkers to stand up to this assault on a landscape we love.
Fat Bumbly2 - on 17 Aug 2013
In reply to Martin1978: "I'm not sure what is so special about the view from Bowden Doors out to the coast. It's featureless, and in my view as good a place as any for the wind turbines. "

But the view of the ridge above Bowden Doors from the coast? Or the Till floodplain. This is an inappropriate site beyond the wildest dreams of the Scots. Used to look upon Northumberland as a sanctuary, especially now that the Lammermuirs have been trashed.

There are some pretty incandescent locals who do not want money pumps in their backyard. Good luck to them.
JDal - on 17 Aug 2013
In reply to Fat Bumbly2:
> ...
> There are some pretty incandescent locals who do not want money pumps in their backyard. Good luck to them.

Agreed. Unfortunately the landowner isn't one of them.
Bulls Crack - on 17 Aug 2013
In reply to auser:
> (In reply to joe s)
> This shot of Dunstanburgh Castle is sobering:
> http://www.thejournal.co.uk/news/north-east-news/northumberland-wind-farms-called-question-5730614
>
> Now try using Google to see other pictures of the Castle.

Didn't notice those last time I was there ......but then again I've neer viewed it from the North Sea
tripehound - on 17 Aug 2013
In reply to joe s:
Unbloodybelievable.
oldlyham on 23 Aug 2013
I'm with the OP on this - it's a poor choice of site, not just because of Bowden Doors but also the views from the coastal AONB, Holy Island etc. Anyway, it will all work be worked through in the planning process/public enquiry. In the meantime the planning portal gives access to the documents/photomontages and is open for public comments.

The company admits that for climbers at Bowden Doors “There would be clear and open views of the Scheme at a close range. The magnitude of change would be very high, which would lead to a Very Substantial and significant visual effect.”

A huge wind farm has already been built next to Great Wanney’s, another application for six 125m turbines a few km west of Kyloe has received planning permission, personnally I think we've "done our bit" in terms of impact on the counties "best crags" (another forum discussion that one...)
TomBaker - on 23 Aug 2013
In reply to oldlyham:
Personally i think we should stick them in anywhere they will make a decent amount of energy unless they will have an effect on the local wildlife.

I'd far rather ruin a few views than love with another generation of fission reactors, fracking or other fossil fuel burning.
mav - on 23 Aug 2013
In reply to TomBaker:
except of course that it will take more than a 'few views' to achieve this.
TomBaker - on 23 Aug 2013
In reply to mav:
I'd ruin them all if there was no impact on wildlife.
Blizzard - on 23 Aug 2013
In reply to joe s:

If widespread fracking goes ahead in the UK, most wind farms will become redundant, as will any sustainable energy techonologies and policies
yarbles - on 23 Aug 2013
In reply to TomBaker:
1.They don't produce a decent amount of energy.
2.They are not an independent source of energy, they produce low quality power that requires another method of generation to co-generate with - Gas (and therefore fracking) and wind go hand in hand.
3. They will not reduce the number of conventional power plants, they may reduce quantity of fuel used (not by as much as claimed BTW) but we still need the same installed capacity.

Northumberland is starting to look ever more industrial, such a shame it's being ruined for such little return.
mav - on 23 Aug 2013
In reply to TomBaker:
You'd need to. And more.
TomBaker - on 23 Aug 2013
In reply to mav:
What i think we should really do is build a couple of massive dams. And block up the bristol channel.
yarbles - on 23 Aug 2013
In reply to TomBaker: A more sensible suggestion
Eric9Points - on 23 Aug 2013
In reply to oldlyham:

>
> A huge wind farm has already been built next to Great Wanney’s, another application for six 125m turbines a few km west of Kyloe has received planning permission,

I'm dismayed that anything is being planned in the area West of Kyloe. The view West from the broad ridge running from Kyloe to Bowden is one of the best in the North of England in my (Scottish) opinion.

joe s - on 23 Aug 2013
Remember if you do object to log it on the council website:

http://publicaccess.northumberland.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=makeCo...

Ignore the bit about "comments not being submitted at this time".

And a belated reply to Andrew: Yes I was there on Tuesday but did not climb Castle Crack - we were the young(ish) group that turned up at 4ish. I hope you had a good day!
wibb20 - on 24 Aug 2013
In reply to yarbles:

Utter bollox I am afraid! Do some reading rather than spouting the arguments that were valid 20 years ago, but the latest generation of turbines are like chalk and cheese compared to those of 20 years ago.

The latest generation of onshore turbines produce energy over a much larger wind range than those that people base their arguments on. I agree, they are not the only solution for our energy needs, but they are certainly part of the solution. We cannot keep burning fossil fuels as a primary energy production method - even with fracking, at some point we will run out (but only after we have screwed our climate for the next generation).
Jim C - on 24 Aug 2013
In reply to wibb20:
Forget wind farms, even the PM thinks they are a waste of space, fracking is his new baby.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/10231717/Theres-no-room-for-wind-farms-but-plenty-for-f...
Jim C - on 24 Aug 2013
In reply to TomBaker:
> (In reply to oldlyham)
> Personally i think we should stick them in anywhere they will make a decent amount of energy.......

You say that ,and so did my sister when she dealt with the devil ,and took their bribe ( sorry- community compensation) to allow turbines to be built up the hill from their farm.

Now there is plan to build them IN the valley right beside her farm, and I can think I can still hear her squealing from here, and NOW she is asking a lot more questions, and finding they are not as effective, economic, etc , as their propaganda claimed and she swallowed it ;)

She has see the model and she has realised , for the first time just how big they are, and she does not like it.

So you say, that they should put hem anywhere, but will you say that when they are literally in your backyard ?


wibb20 - on 24 Aug 2013
In reply to Jim C: What a surprise - the Tories have been anti-wind and pro fossil fuels forever! The funny thing is, we are legally bound to reduce out carbon emissions! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol

We will all be paying the price if the government ignore our obligations, both in fines for not achieving our legaly binding targets, and also by the fact we are screwing the planet for our children.

How is it so hard to work out...?! We have a finite amount of fossil fuels. when they are gone, they are gone, and we (our children's children) will be left paying the price for our neglectful behaviour.

So suck it up - bad luck, you lose your pretty vista, but I wonder if you would be prepared to stand there and justify your arguments to your children when they are faced with the effects of climate change and no ready supply of fossil fuels.

Our landscape has been changing since man learned to leave the cave - live with it.
Eric9Points - on 24 Aug 2013
In reply to wibb20:

You argue as if there are only two options, windfarms or fossil fuel. That's not the case.
Jim C - on 25 Aug 2013
In reply to Martin1978:
> ?..I'll go ahead and say it... I'm not sure what is so special about the view from Bowden Doors out to the coast. It's featureless, and in my view as good a place as any for the wind turbines.
>

Have you ever just closed your eyes, and listened , and heard nothing, and enjoyed it more than your favourite piece of music.

Well , your. ' featureless' is some people's visual equivalent of that silence .
( in my view, which is clearly not the same as yours)
yarbles - on 25 Aug 2013
In reply to wibb20: I am v familiar with the ins and outs of wind as a civil engineer with experience in the renewables sector. I have also worked with developers and know the unscrupulous methods used and bare faced lies they spout in order to make their profits.

The energy in the wind is the problem, you can improve the turbines all you like but wind energy goes up with the square of the wind speed and when there is little of it there is no significant power available let alone harvested by these things.

It would be wonderful if wind could provide an effective alternative to fossil fuels and if so I would be for them however the points I raised are very much still valid. Result being we are spending vast amounts of money on an ineffective generation method. Money that would be far more effective in reducing emissions if spent elsewhere.
joe s - on 28 Aug 2013
bump
Skip - on 28 Aug 2013
In reply to Martin1978:
> (In reply to Andysomething) That's the view as I remember it.
>
I'm not sure what is so special about the view from Bowden Doors out to the coast. It's featureless, and in my view as good a place as any for the wind turbines.
>
Correct.
It occasionally amazes me how some folks see turbines. I remember reading a newspaper report on objections to turbines sited near Drax in North Yorkshire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drax_power_station



Photo of turbines

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Admin/BkFill/Default_image_group/2012/2/24/1330108070146/Windfar...

joe s - on 31 Aug 2013
Protect Bowden Doors - "The Stanage of the North"! See opening post
michaelb1 - on 01 Sep 2013
In reply to joe s: I have registered my objection with the council and with a letter to Alan Beith. Windfarm developers and landowners are exploiting the huge subsidies available (paid for by our electricity bills) and northumberland will be a turbine landscape soon unless we can prevent this. These developments would not be viable without large public subsidy.

Each windfarm requires the construction of roads over the hills and the deposition of many hundreds of tons of concrete into the ground to build the base for the turbines. Let alone the impact on wildlife and landscape value. Does the intermittent and expensive power output of these schemes really justify the vandalism of our upland landscapes?

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