UKC

Hi everyone,

Coming up very soon on UKC we have a special week, with some pretty amazing features on some of the UK's top trad climbers, and other things (not giving much away right now) going on all that week.

But I need some help!

On the first day of the series I am going to be introducing some climbers and want to do a bit of a tongue in cheek comparison - in the style of Top Trumps.

So, what should the categories be for the top trad climbers? And how many points do I mark them out of?

I was thinking along the lines of:

Strength 7/10
Boldness 6/10
Endurance 7/10
Mental Toughness 6/10
Technique 9/10

What do you think?

Any ideas? Some serious categories of course, but I'm not ruling out some daft ones too if they are funny.

Nothing rude though please.

Thanks!

Jack

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Vision
Marketability

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: Sketchiness.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

How about ...most annoying voice?

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

How about winter, new routing (for how much exploring they do,) ethics (good luck on judging that...) grading (how much their FA grades are reduced after!!!!!)

In reply to Robert Durran:


Ambassadorialness surely Robert?

Jack, somehow I think whether they give off an air of slight (or total) nuttiness or calm stability should be accounted for.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Obviously the most important question....Who is having the most fun?

In reply to Robert Durran:

I though that too but think it is just their ethics.

In reply to jonnie3430: Related to grading, how about...

Corruptibility (i.e. by sponsors).

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
Quoteability
Dress sense
Arrogance

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: How about hairstyle? Or fashion sense?

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: April fools ?

In reply to jonnie3430:



No. A Climber with vision will be remembered in 50 years time for their legacy of inspiring and ground breaking routes. An equally strong climber withouit vision who just goes round repeating desperate things will be forgotten about.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Power Scream
Beard
Sense of adventure

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Onsightability should be the main parameter.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Shoe size

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Charisma

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
Two obvious ones spring to my mind:

What have they ever done on grit?
(E)1-10

Ethical purity:
10/10 sainthood beckons
5/10 overgraded some routes, has used side runners, felt holds on ab then claimed an onsight
0/10 chipped holds, lied about ascents, cut rope of partner, the full works

In reply to Jon Read:

Damnit! I thought I'd managed to beat everyone to that. But +1 for some variant of 'what have they done on grit'.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Colourful/Inventive Route Naming.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: Trolling ability...

Andy F

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Ape Index
Sphincter closure strength
Original vocabulary under duress

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Web presence.
Sexyness of wife/girlfriend.
Drinking ability.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
How about versatility? are they all-rounders or just boulderers.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Mouth

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

BMI

eg Steve Mac <5/10 vs John Dunne >5/10 (at a guess)

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Numbers out of 10 are boring! Let's have some proper units.

Mental: (yes/no)
Sphincter Strength: (kN)

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Sandbag rating (by grade, where 0 is the benchmark). So James Pearson scores -3 for example, whereas say Joe Brown might score +2, or something like that.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: level of dirt bagness, fitness

In reply to HarmM: as in fitness to climb not the other type

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Spelling: your/you're, lose/loose, ect.

Laugh away ... these guys are supposed to write GUIDEBOOX one day.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: Some good suggestion so far.

How about some of these:

Strength
Boldness
Endurance
Mental Toughness
Technique
Adaptability
Flair
Quotability
Vision
Sketchiness
Mentalism
Ambition
Fashion Sense
Sandbaggability


Jack

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

What about 'Legendary/Iconic Status'?

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: Intelligence

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: Sense of Humour

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Driving Convictions.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: I think "insanity" is better than "mentalism", as that's what Derren Brown practices. I don't think he's a good trad climber.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Eccentricity - a Dawes factor of character and exuberance

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Elvis leg suppression capability

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Enthusiasm/hyperactivity a-la Tim Emmett/Timmy O'Niell

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

dirtbaggery?

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Average under or overgrade tendancy
Beers / night capability
Hangover grade capability
Biggest hex carried
Smallest gear lobbed on
Average 'air miles' per m climbing
RRP of climbing clothes / accessories

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: how about a hedonist scale? i.e are they super committed athletes or super party animals?

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Credibility of sponsorship

Dryness of humour

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Possibly covered in "Quotability" on your list

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
personality of some form
it doesnt matter how hard you climb if you are a boring c u next tuesday.
can think of a few who's videos on here are ruined by the dull as dishwaters featured climber

In reply to mark s:

Deffo. In cycling I call it the Froome-factor. I'm just having a ponder who the equivalent might be in climbing...

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
A few more good suggestions there.

So, I might knock a few f these off, but here's the current list:

Modesty
Strength
Boldness
Endurance
Mental Toughness
Technique
Flair (does this come under technique?)
Quotability
Vision
Solidity (replaces sketchiness)
Eccentricity (replaces mentalism)
Fashion Sense (really?)
Sandbag-ability (does this come under modesty?)
Drinking Prowess (also - do we need this? I guess it is TRAD after all!)

Thanks,

Jack

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
sandwhich rating ?
as in how many short of a full picnic .

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Surely Legacy needs to be on there,

In reply to SimonMarcYoung:

And the one with the most legs

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

What about 'Range' - ie the types of rock and/or geographical influence of their climbing. (I was thinking Big Walling, Sea Cliff, Mountains or Crag, rock type - grit, slate)

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: Person you would most like to share an adventure with rating. This would to some degree be an adjectival overall grade for the person.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: Surely you should have a coolness rating or Rock Godliness.....

There a quote on one of the many climbing dvds comparing Sharma and Ondra which goes along the lines of re Ondra 'everyone wants his résumé but not his hair'

Still think Hedonism would be than Drinking Prowess

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: Number of Cups of Tea drunk a day

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Still missing "what's he/she done on grit?"

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
what about old-school hardman fighting ability?
imagine Whillans v Ondra - jesus it'd be carnage... assuming Don could catch him, of course

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
Police cautions / nights in cells.
Ape index.
Hygiene rating.
Number of new routes.
Number of climbing partners.
Longest fall.
Career length (years).
Number of guidebook stars his/her routes have (aggregate score / average score)

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
No. of vices.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: I liked the longest fall. And yes, maybe we should have some grades in there!

Modesty
Strength
Boldness
Endurance
Mental Toughness
Technique
Flair (does this come under technique?)
Quotability
Vision
Solidity (replaces sketchiness)
Eccentricity (replaces mentalism)
Fashion Sense (really?)
Sandbag-ability (does this come under modesty?)
Drinking Prowess (also - do we need this? I guess it is TRAD after all!)
Length of biggest fall taken
Hardest Headpoint on Grit
Hardest Headpoint On Other Rock
Hardest Onsight

I think that is far too many categories though, how many are on actual top trumps cards?

Jack

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Drop at least all the silly irrelevant ones all the ones you have put question marks against plus the "Hardest Headpoint On Grit". Gritcentric bias is unnecessary and annoying.

In reply to andy farnell:

Let it GO, dude.......

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Level of sponsorship and if they have to earn a living.

ie totally professional or amateur.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Number of cutting-edge new routes should be on there IMO.

In reply to mcdougal: 'contribution to us mortals'. Points scored for number of new routes opened/cleaned, guidebooks written, advice given etc.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

- Popularity with the masses.
- Generosity to the climbing community (online tips/blog, lecture tours, - coaching opportunities, route write-ups etc)
- Approachability at the crag
- 'Stats', eg height : weight ratio

Definitely not 'hardest onsight on grit'. That, frankly, is retarded.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

If I think about a few top climbers I know of, then I'd be wanting to separate them by their preferred climbing style; gotta differentiate between your Julian Lines' and your Tom Randall's.

So maybe Slab/Crack/Shuffle-ability?

How about:
i. longevity in the business
ii. dress sense / sense of style!
iii. number of first ascents
iv. highest grade climbed
v. best 'committing' scream

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Name: Joe bloggs
Age: 37
Strength: 68
Agility: 75
Courage: 90
Hardest climb: E8
Catch phrase: "come on legs do your stuff"


Name: Stevie
Years active: 10
Number of one armers: 5
Technique: 7/10
Stamina: 5/10
Balls of steel rating: 2/10
Number of first ascents: 27
Number of e points: 392

So many possilities, you need to keep it around 5-8 categories though.

In reply to FreshSlate: Balls of steel rating...love it!

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Good top trumps needs to be simple and produce at least one key weakness in the star cards and a key strength for the lemons. Technique, boldness, stamina, vision, range (in different climbing games), influence, would be good.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

The ape index

"Bullshit / hype ratio" for first ascents

BSR=<accepted grade / claimed grade>

Probably best expressed as a delta-percentage:

BSR%=100-100*<accepted grade / claimed grade>

So if you grade your new climbs E10 and they are regraded E8 long term then your BSR%=+20%

Obviously if your first ascents are upgraded your BSR% is negative.

Lowest BSR% wins.

In reply to naffan:

WooHoo!

In reply to duchessofmalfi:

Surely the grade change vs. points should form a parabola - undergrading is just as annoying as overgrading and bloody dangerous dangerous. Equally, false modesty isn't any different from ego.

In reply to Robert Durran:
Some of these could be conflated into a single expression "influence"

In reply to Mr Fuller:

I dont think either Hazel Flynn or Lucy Creamer have a wife or girlfriend though....

In reply to pebbles:

Hazel Findlay would definitely beat any other UK climber for sexiness of partner though. Have you ever seen the wild man of Cumbria?

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

who is the fastest abseiler?

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:


On the Edge did this years ago with a Who's who of Scottish winter climbing. Aside from categories like 'nutter', '8th grader' & 'strongman' etc, there were also 'cars wrecked, mates wives slept with, pub fights' and suchlike.

In reply to Franco Cookson: my respect for the lass goes up then!

cover photos (guidebook/magazines)

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: We were discussing this for members of our club at the weekend as one of our Polish friends had never played top trumps! We actually bought a pack of 'horses' top trumps to play on the ferry. You have a picture of the breed, some trivia about it, and categories of height, 'sportability', colour variety, speed and I think something else.
Suggestions we had for climbing categories before conversation changed were:- no. of pullups, lead grade, fall length, bouldering grade.