/ Alpine climbing/skiing boot combination & recomendations

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frqnt - on 26 Aug 2013
I thought I'd see if I can generate a discussion to observe what everyone has found to be most effective. The decision I am faced with: Wear climbing boots to ski, ski boots to climb or carrying a pair of boots for each?

In hope of keeping weight down whilst not seriously impeding either ski/climbing performance; where should my money go?

At present I own Nepal's but not sure they will be warm enough; Initially I was hoping I could satisfy all requirements with Spantiks but starting to think a dedicated pair of technical climbing and AT ski boots would be better.

Can anyone add any thoughts or recommendations?
dutybooty - on 26 Aug 2013
In reply to frqnt: Spantiks will do approaches relatively well, downhill not so much. Its what I plan to use this winter.
Jonny2vests - on 26 Aug 2013
In reply to frqnt:

Dynafit TLT5 Mountains are very popular over here. They were too narrow for me though so I switched to Dynafit One PXs, works for me.

There's a skiing forum btw, might get more replies.



LJC - on 26 Aug 2013
In reply to Jonny2vests: +1 for tlt5s.
matejn - on 26 Aug 2013
In reply to frqnt: In my view it all depends on what you are going to be climbing and skiing. I climb up to WI5 and snow gullies in TLT5, but anything harder than that, of they go and Nepal EVO goes to action. Also consider that skiing on a descend, tired , carrying a backpack with all the winter rack and often in the dark, is not an easy think to do. Not even with a proper skiing boots, let alone with a climbing boots. Just my opinion.
AdrianC - on 26 Aug 2013
In reply to frqnt: You just don't want to be skiing downhill with a pack in climbing boots - even if you're a very strong skier it's asking for trouble. Maybe they're OK for skinning but that's about all. I've climbed quite a bit of steep ice in touring boots and they're fine for front-pointing if a little heavier than is ideal and they give good calf support and are nice & warm. The trigger point for me to carry climbing boots during the skiing is if I think the climbing is going to involve any ankle articulation. Whether it's cramponing across a 40 degree slope or mixed climbing, the lack of ankle flex in touring boots can be a real impediment. So, as usual, there isn't a universal right answer other than to give yourself enough options to suit whatever missions you have in mind then choose the right combo on the day.
NottsRich on 26 Aug 2013
Sorry for the mini-hijack, but can someone give me an answer to these questions about the TLT5 boots? Or point me in the direction of some good introductory information elsewhere? Thanks.

What model (TF/Performance TF or TF-X) is recommended for ski approaches and climbing, with the emphasis on climbing? Would also like to use for 2/3 day ski tours in Scotland and the alps.

Do Dynafit boots fit into regular bindings, i.e. can I use these boots with hired skis at a pisted resort? Are the boots robust enough for pisted runs and occasional off-piste/play?

What crampons are a good fit for water ice and mixed climbing? Are toe and heel bails recommended, or the traditional basket/strap attachment?

Thanks!
matejn - on 26 Aug 2013
In reply to NottsRich: Neither of them is very warm and that is what Dynafit is adressing with the release of TLT 6 model. And some other changes as well . I have TF model and have been using Petzl crampons( automatic and semi ) with no issues, but I like TLT5 and lynx combo the most. TLT 5 fits only Dynafit bindigs.
NottsRich on 26 Aug 2013
In reply to matejn: Thanks for the summary. Very useful.
dutybooty - on 26 Aug 2013
In reply to frqnt: Scarpa maestrales aren't too bad for climbing in and fit my G14 crampomatics fine.

Done up to around scottish V in them.

This winter though I'm not planning to use skis for much downhill though, mostly just on flats so I'm going to give the spantiks a go...learn through abject misery and all that...
NottsRich on 26 Aug 2013
In reply to dutybooty:
> (In reply to frqnt) Scarpa maestrales aren't too bad for climbing in and fit my G14 crampomatics fine.
>
> Done up to around scottish V in them.
>

Do the Maestrales fit in tech bindings and the normal downhill bindings as well? Could they be the boots I'm looking for for climbing, touring and piste skiing on rented skis? Thanks for the crampon recommendation.
dutybooty - on 26 Aug 2013
In reply to frqnt: They fit normal bindings and dynafit bindings.

About the crampon fitting, usual disclaimers about check yourself apply!
frqnt - on 27 Aug 2013
Appreciate the various responses. @ NottsRich, your questions are helpful - look's like we're looking for similar set-up. A few more questions:

Are Nepal Evo's adequate as a technical winter alpine boot or do I need to get Spantiks for the warmth? I've climbed in -20 deg. in Norway with them but I'm not sure this is a fair comparison.

If I go for the TLT5 option, which is looking increasingly appealing, does anyone know where I can rent skis with Dynafit bindings in Cham?
frqnt - on 27 Aug 2013
In reply to matejn:
As an owner of Nepal Evo's and TLT5's; can you comment on how they fit comparatively? I'm having trouble sourcing stock in NZ so I might have to take a gamble and buy online.
dutybooty - on 27 Aug 2013
In reply to frqnt: Day trips I'd consider nepals in winter. If I was 100% sure I wouldn't be spending the night. But even then I don't think it would be too comfortable.

I'd go more for baturas for day trips and spantiks for overnight. But I'm a cold person, I'd ask more.
Oceanic - on 27 Aug 2013
In reply to NottsRich:
> Sorry for the mini-hijack, but can someone give me an answer to these questions about the TLT5 boots? Or point me in the direction of some good introductory information elsewhere? Thanks.
>
> What model (TF/Performance TF or TF-X) is recommended for ski approaches and climbing, with the emphasis on climbing? Would also like to use for 2/3 day ski tours in Scotland and the alps.
>
> Do Dynafit boots fit into regular bindings, i.e. can I use these boots with hired skis at a pisted resort? Are the boots robust enough for pisted runs and occasional off-piste/play?
>
> What crampons are a good fit for water ice and mixed climbing? Are toe and heel bails recommended, or the traditional basket/strap attachment?
>
> Thanks!

There's a bloke on the Snowheads forum who says that he uses TLT 5s with alpine bindings and they release fine. However this is definitely not what the manufacturers recommend, and most people (myself included) think that doing so is a very bad idea that is likely to result in injury due to the bindings releasing either too easily, or not easily enough.

Answers to your other questions are in here...

http://coldthistle.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/part-2.html
galpinos - on 27 Aug 2013
In reply to Oceanic:
> (In reply to NottsRich)
> [...]
>
> There's a bloke on the Snowheads forum who says that he uses TLT 5s with alpine bindings and they release fine. However this is definitely not what the manufacturers recommend, and most people (myself included) think that doing so is a very bad idea that is likely to result in injury due to the bindings releasing either too easily, or not easily enough.

I agree with what Oceanic has posted and would also add, if you hire skis, I very much doubt the rental shop will set them up with TLT5s. They'll want a proper DIN sole, not a touring rockered sole.
In reply to frqnt:
> I've climbed in -20 deg. in Norway with them

I've used Nepals and even Trango Ice at around that temperature but I reckon you're pushing your luck if you're out for more than a few hours. I've decided climbing at those temps just isn't fun, but for a multiday route double boots have to be the right choice. I've got Sportiva Baruntses which so far have been excellent in the cold, cheaper and supposedly harderwearing than Spantiks too.
matejn - on 27 Aug 2013
In reply to frqnt:IŽd say that, in my size, TLT5 are narrower than Nepal EVO. I had to thermo mold the liner ( TF ) to get a really good fit. I also tried TF-X model and was way more comfortable out of the box. And as I understand it, it should also be a little warmer. Neither Evo or TLT5 is a particular warm boot in my opinion ( youŽll be fine to around -10 C ).That's why I'm getting Baruntse this year.
damowilk on 27 Aug 2013
In reply to matejn:
I've heard that the TLT6 might also have a wider fit, as the owners of flappy, wide, flat feet, I'm going to wait till they're out here in NZ to try. Anyone heard if this is the case?
Oh, for a lightweight hybrid double boot for climbing, then ideally, you could have 1 inner, and a light ski and climbing outer that you could switch. Probably not far off, hopefully.
Oceanic - on 27 Aug 2013
In reply to damowilk:
> (In reply to matejn)
> I've heard that the TLT6 might also have a wider fit ... Anyone heard if this is the case?

There's an explanation of how the shell shape differs between a TLT5 and a TLT6 here...

http://www.wildsnow.com/9044/dynafit-new-beast-cho-oyu-2013-2014/

matejn - on 27 Aug 2013
barney800 on 28 Aug 2013
In reply to Oceanic:
> most people (myself included) think that doing so is a very bad idea that is likely to result in injury due to the bindings releasing either too easily, or not easily enough.

I believe this to be the case too, and certainly wouldn't want to use touring boots in downhill bindings. I think the problem is that rubber soles grip the base plate, making it harder for the boot to be released when it's twisted on the axis parallel to your shin. You can read a horror story about what can happen here:

http://www.andypmountainguide.com/index.php/eng/Community/Knowledgebase2/Ask-Andy/Touring-boots-in-d...

Touring bindings have a little sliding bit on the toe of the base plate to counter this problem. Or you can get touring boots with interchangeable soles - one rubber and one plastic - that can be used in both types of binding. The disadvantage with these is that they tend to live on the beefy ski boot end of the spectrum, so probably wouldn't be ideal for climbing.
NottsRich on 28 Aug 2013
In reply to barney800:
> (In reply to Oceanic)
> [...]
>
> I believe this to be the case too, and certainly wouldn't want to use touring boots in downhill bindings. I think the problem is that rubber soles grip the base plate, making it harder for the boot to be released when it's twisted on the axis parallel to your shin. You can read a horror story about what can happen here:
>
> http://www.andypmountainguide.com/index.php/eng/Community/Knowledgebase2/Ask-Andy/Touring-boots-in-d...
>
> Touring bindings have a little sliding bit on the toe of the base plate to counter this problem. Or you can get touring boots with interchangeable soles - one rubber and one plastic - that can be used in both types of binding. The disadvantage with these is that they tend to live on the beefy ski boot end of the spectrum, so probably wouldn't be ideal for climbing.


Sorry, but just to be clear about your comments above... Am I right in thinking that

1. TLT5 boots are fine for use with Dynafit bindings (obviously), take a crampon and climb ok too. BUT, are not suitable for use with alpine bindings.

2. The Maestrale boot will fit in Dynafit (or other tech) bindings, takes a crampon and climbs ok. A bit warmer that the TLT5 too. BUT, will also work properly in alpine bindings and release properly. If so, does it require a different sole (plastic) or does it work in alpine bindings as is from the shop?

Thanks in advance!
galpinos - on 28 Aug 2013
In reply to NottsRich:
> 2. The Maestrale boot will fit in Dynafit (or other tech) bindings, takes a crampon and climbs ok. A bit warmer that the TLT5 too. BUT, will also work properly in alpine bindings and release properly. If so, does it require a different sole (plastic) or does it work in alpine bindings as is from the shop?

No. Maestrales (Mango or RS) will not reliably work in alpine bindings*. They work with Dynafit and other touring bindings. They do NOT have an interchangeable sole.

*They can be made to work but it comes with a risk and rental shops won’t rent to you.
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NottsRich on 28 Aug 2013
In reply to galpinos: Thank you.

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